Scotland 2019 - where do we go from here?

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Scotland 2019 - where do we go from here? Empty What has happened to Scotland this 6N!?

Post by Highland Shaun on Sun 10 Mar 2019, 11:46 pm

I am a Scot so am very angry and disheartened at how far back we have gone this tournament to what we were last year so, what has happened this year and, should Gregor take a share of the blame!? I don't that he needs sacked just yet but the world cup will be huge for him and, imho will determine his future. Some fellow fans want him sacked but I just don't see how that will help our preparation for the world cup, especially if we don't play any matches in the lead up.

I know we have had a vast number of injuries but tbh, I don't think that is an acceptable excuse for our abysmal performances!

Also, I believe that our defence coach needs sacked though because we are far to easy to score against, in every match, a team has scored 3 tries against us which is pathetic, it seems that the players are not learning from the errors.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 6:30 am

I was contemplating our 6Ns lying in a darkened room looking for any positives i could find.

Bar a couple of new players, there were not all that many. The national team is back in a dark place, playing some absolute howlers.

Any structure we've been developing has gone out of the window. I cant see how it's going to change at the RWC. It could be down to the injuries, but i dont believe any of our current squad to be as bad as they've performed this year. More likely i feel it's down to poor coaching, leadership and tactics, i can't see us reaching even the QFs in September at our current trajectory. Injuries provide only so many excuses, this is a team of professionals who should be drilled in the basics. You look at the best, they can play well with some mediocre individuals.

Toonie seems to be grasping at straws or blaming the ref, which is not what a coach should be doing.. I can't see much positive impact from Danny Wilson presently though he's not been in post long, Taylor must have ground his teeth down to the nerves, although our defensive performance has improved.

I have a feeling toonie will be gone of his own volition post RWC. He's taken on the Scotland job thinking it'll be the same as taking the weegies to pro12 victory. He reminds me of Scott Johnson in a lot of ways as a coach. Believes in the players first and foremost and thinks the fancy stuff comes from flinging it around, as long as it comes off 1 in 10 times.

Anyway, looking towards the world cup, i think we can safely say a few players have earned their spots on the plane, a lot have written off their chances. This summer I'd like to see Horne at SH with Barclay as captain and see how that works out. Darcy should be on the wing in place of Seymour. Depending on how taylor is doing it'd be good to see Scott back in the centres, and maybe we can have a proper look at Stafford.

If we don't make it past group stages I think a lot of the mixed feelings around ditching vern will be justified. I know a lot of people here think it's mainly injuries and are giving toonie the benefit of the doubt but even our squad players should have the basics, our depth isnt great but its not as bad as this tournament.
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Post by RDW on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 8:18 am

I'm not in full private Fraser mode yet as we have had a huge number of injuries, and we're not going to know how deep the malaise has set in until they return. 

Problem is that there's only 4 games in the summer so chances are slim that an uncapped player is going to make the plane, and even if they do they'll be horribly short of experience.

Depending on injuries over the next few months we should have everyone available - even Taylor is due back around June. Whether his body can stand up to the demands of a world cup immediately is a different question.

On paper at least we should have a decent squad to choose from. He'll need to decide early on who his top 25 or so players are as they'll need to play the last 2 warmup games to gel together.

I think Barclay's fitness is key - will he be the same players after such a debilitating injury at his age? We're just not the same team without him.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 8:21 am

https://g.co/kgs/Ey4dzR

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 8:27 am

This tournament has pushed Scottish strength and depth to the absolute limits. The good thing is that this is happening at a time where there are good players looking for opportunities. From that you will become a tougher team.

Scotland can play some really attractive rugby, you have a good set piece. There is serious attacking talent in the backs, some smart players in the back row, creativity and solidity at halfback

Scotland’s six nations reminds me of Wales last RWC, we were missing so many top players we couldn’t compete in the big games against Australia and South Africa

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 8:30 am

maestegmafia wrote:Scotland’s six nations reminds me of Wales last RWC, we were missing so many top players we couldn’t compete in the big games against Australia and South Africa

This. 100%.

But what this did though, was force Gatland's hand and made him pick players that might not have got the chance, thus a lot of people stood up to be counted for. The WC in 2015 in my opinion is why we are where we are now, as it has forced players who were in their comfort zone, to really up their games.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:25 am

Still say Scotland need a slow-down game that's effective ....because every team needs a clock countdown game. The countdown game of course just isn't handy for that endstage of a game when you're winning and don't want to tempt fate by keeping a game open. It's also mucho handy for closing down the early stage ambitions of the opposition. So you have to be willing to do a fair shift of boring but highly functional phase play. I do feel Scotland's greatest weakness now is impatience. It seems they sense that every time they have possession they need to do something magical with the ball.
I don't know what they were trying in the first half against Wales - perhaps there was a notion of reserving energy for that second half but the endeavour of the first half wasn't nearly enough to contain Wales. That's why I talk about a slow game. If you want to be strategic and hold many of your best bits and tempo for an expected hectic second half, you just need a much smarter low energy game than Scotland currently have.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:35 am

Mixed feelings on this one.

I do question the tactics employed by toonie and co, and their ability to motivate the players.  Arguably players shouldn’t need to be motivated to play for Scotland, but you look at some of the body language of some players and they just seem like they don’t want to be there.

There is photo analysis of Maitland for one of the French tries.  They are attacking the line with pick and goes, and he’s out of position, with his head down and not making any attempt to get to where he should  be.  It’s only when French get over the try line that he breaks into a light jog to get there.  That’s not Maitland, that’s not the type of player he is, but he just seemed totally devoid of any enthusiasm.

That shouldn’t be the case, players should be busting a gut to get into positon.

Toonie also only seems to have one plan, which is chuck the ball about quickly.  If that’s not working, lets do it quicker.  We are too reliant on solo miracle runs as well.  Jones, Hoggy, Kinghorn etc, we don’t attack as a team, we rely on one player making a break, and if it comes off brilliant, we love it, but more often than not it doesn’t and due to the player running away from support, or failing to pass (all are guilty of this) or making an insane pass, then we get turned over, or we make a mistake and we lose the attacking chance.  I’m not saying we shouldn’t do these runs as they make ground and get us up the field but it shouldn’t form the cornerstone of our attack.

With all that said we have had 35-40 arguably first/second choice players injured throughout, or at various points during this tournament (you can see a list of them here), and that can’t be ignored.  We have one of the lowest number of pro rugby players in the 6n, so to lose that number of players is a testament to the depth we are finally getting.  Sure we have been crap this tournament, but at least we know there are players who can come in.  Hopefully with a supporting cast who are 1st choice in their position.

I said before he came in that it was too early for Toonie, and he should have been allowed to leave Glasgow (as he was pushing for) and move to France/England/Southern Hemisphere and continue to develop as a coach.  We had a good coach in Vern, and there wasn’t a reason to change other than to keep Toonie in the SRU employment.  I still stand by that, and think that he still needs to develop and learn new ways of playing when the game isn’t suited to insane quick ball.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:36 am

Welcome to the forum Shaun, this is a worthy topic for discussion.

I think you have probably posted it in the wrong place though, it would be better in the international section of the rugby forum and i think it will get more response there. Not so many people look at the general sections.

My own view is that it is way to early to talk about sackings and probably a little to early for a post mortum, that can wait until after the last game in which we do have a chance to redeem ourselves a bit (yes I know that is very unlikely!). At that point I am sure lots of people will have lots to say.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:54 am

Incidentally, IF Scotland don't do as well as they'll be trying to come WC (and they may be back in top scintillating form by then of course) - but if the WC doesn't go good and pressure comes on Townsend? We've all heard Gats play games with the media as regards his Six Nations end or future. Could Scotland be the role he is giving consideration to? Would they go after him if he made himself available? I know at that stage that quite a few other 6N sides might be or will be looking for a coach post Japan and obviously England are the ones with the biggest pocket. But I don't know - I think England might want to have another stab at an English coach after Jones now that they have players who allegedly only need to be given targets to aim for. Scotland might be a nice project in the mind of Gatland. He'd love usurping England, Ireland and indeed Wales with a new Scottish 6N outfit. He has the character that would love the challenge of turning that tide.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:05 am

SecretFly wrote:Incidentally, IF Scotland don't do as well as they'll be trying to come WC (and they may be back in top scintillating form by then of course) - but if the WC doesn't go good and pressure comes on Townsend?  We've all heard Gats play games with the media as regards his Six Nations end or future.  Could Scotland be the role he is giving consideration to?  Would they go after him if he made himself available?  I know at that stage that quite a few other 6N sides might be or will be looking for a coach post Japan and obviously England are the ones with the biggest pocket.  But I don't know - I think England might want to have another stab at an English coach after Jones now that they have players who allegedly only need to be given targets to aim for.  Scotland might be a nice project in the mind of Gatland.  He'd love usurping England, Ireland and indeed Wales with a new Scottish 6N outfit.  He has the character that would love the challenge of turning that tide.

Can't see it.  I could understand going to coach England (cash/resources and potential to win a WC - No offence Wales, I just think England possibly have a better chance)
NZ - He's made no secret of wanting to coach the all blacks so I assume this is on his mind.

There is little to attract him to coach Scotland.  He would need to rebuild the team, and we're not set up to play in his style, so that would take time to implement and adapt.  He'd have less players to choose from, and a number of them playing outside the country.

If he had some affinity with Scotland, or was looking to break into the international coaching scene then I could see it, but as things stand it would be a backwards step from where he is now.

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Post by EST on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:07 am

While acknowledging that the injuries have been chronic this championship, I think Toonie has to take the bulk of the responsibility for our performances.

If you look at out results since the last England game, there has been a gradual loss of form and momentum which had been built by VC - we have gone from a team that looked purposeful and patient in attack, to one that make simple errors and rushes everything. Our defense has been suspect for a while, but there has been a real drop off in intensity recently - we are nowhere near the levels of England, Wales or Ireland - you simply couldn't imagine Scotland repelling a team 20 m, like Wales did to us at the weekend.

I'm certainly not advocating getting rid of Toonie, but I think he needs to look carefully about how he sets up Scotland going into the WC - right now we look like the worst iteration of his Glasgow team in Europe.


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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:07 am

Begrudgingly I'd admit a gatland approach is what scotland needs at the moment. Long term whether it would work is another question. I'd argue we messed up 3 years ago as Vern seemed to strike the balance between being hard and creative.

Toonie is our coach until further notice, for me he needs to recruit a hard nosed assistant who can organise the boys and put a rocket up them. Not sure who would be best for that really. I think we're really missing McFarland as forwards coach too.

We just need a no nonsense approach that toonie seems incapable of.
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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:13 am

Andy Robinson is a good, hard nosed forwards coach angel

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:17 am

He is a great assistant/club coach for sure!
Like cockers he comes with many limitations though!

Maybe we should just roll the dice and get craig chalmers back in the set up, although not a forward he definitely doesn't mince his words. If not for the entertainment value of seeing him cursing and swearing and starting fights in the coaches box.
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Post by Eejit on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:20 am

Welcome to the forum Highland Shaun. You'll find plenty of exasperated Scotland fans on these boards so you're in good company.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:24 am

Once again Tom English has summarised it well https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47513614
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Post by R!skysports on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 11:25 am

I think we are stuck with Toonie until the world cup, as it is too late to change him now.

It was a terrible decision to get rid of Vern and this is being backed up by our team heading backwards at a rate of knots.

It is just like Toonie at Glasgow. Teams worked him out and then he struggled as had no clue what to do. He left as they were going backwards as well.

He sticks with his favourites (gray) and ignores players who are in better form (Toolis)

He does not have a plan B, and his plan A is to hope for a miracle play from an individual, but we are now so far aware from playing as a team that there is never anyone there to carry it on (see the breaks we do make fail).

In all honesty, this 6 nations was always going to be this way. We have managed one good (for us) season, where we won our home games.
But our away record is a truer reflection of our team. and it is shocking - losing against minnows repeatable.

Whether Tonnie goes after the world cup or not, I think Scotland has slipped back 5 - 10 years under his stewardship (5 years back, while the rest has gone forward).

5th place is where we are again and if Italy beat france (who have been awful except against us as we allowed them to play), could we come last?


I know I am coming off as negative, but in all honesty, since Vern was sacked, I have been losing faith in the team - and I hold that 100% at the feet of the SRU - we are becoming so passive and even the players seemed to have given up half the time


God, I need a drink



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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 11:59 am

Well if there's one comfort to take from this, its that come 2023 we may have a half decent squad coming through with a hopefully better coach...

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 4:16 pm

It's not all doom and gloom.

The over-riding issue currently is that our team is decimated by injuries. The biggest problem is that these injuries are in the positions where we're struggling at the moment.

A) Leadership
B) The backs

Our forwards are still playing well. Making plenty tackles, doing the work at ruck time, line out ok, maul needs a bit work, scrum a bit shakey but nothing to worry about.

Our issue is when the forwards get us into the 22 (which we dont seem to have an issue with) the backs then go into full on red bull mode and start throwing mad passes, going side to side and trying to do everything at 100 miles an hour.

What is needed is for leadership to shout "Stop playing like headless chickens" and either tells the backs to play with structure or don't give them the ball.

I've pointed this out on other threads where Frodo was getting to a ruck and often he is not getting the ball away quickly as the backs are not set up. This was particulrly evident in the game agaisnt France.

All is not lost as hopefully we can get these players back and get bit more structure in here.

This being said, the game plan we're trying to play needs to adapt to the situation and this is where Toonie needs to carry the can. He can't be blamed for Kinghorn or Seymour dropping the ball at will, but the tactics of chuck the ball out wide every time need to be changed so that these guys don't get the ball passed to them for the 100th time.

As many have said, and I said it at the time, Big Vern should have kept control of the team until after the world cup, then Toonie, after a couple more seasons either at Glasgow or a couple of years in France/England, could have then taken over.

SRU silliness at its highest level.
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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 4:25 pm

Laidlaw is called Frodo because, well he looks like a hobbit though perhaps a Took rather than a Baggins
Underhill is being called Frodo because of the alias the hobbit uses in Bree. However he looks like an orc.

It is hard enough keeping up with all the Scottish nicknames (especially with the cast of Captain Pugwash seeming to have joined in) but when we start to have nicknames applied to more than one person is more than my reducing braincell count can cope with.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 5:41 pm

Boys, boys!!! warning

Let's get one or two things clear.

Stuart Hogg is up there with the best 15's ever to wear a Scotland jersey. I say this as one who as an adolescent thought Andy Irvine running with the ball was slightly more awe inspiring than the Sistine chapel.

Huw Jones, is not a show pony, he is probably the best attacking 13 in the world right now.

Alex Dunbar and Duncan Taylor are light years ahead of most of the centres we have had to endure in recent years.

Finn Russell may well end up surpassing Toonie and may even establish himself as the best 10 we have had for many a year.

George Horne should have played in every match this Six Nations: even at this early stage in his career it is clear he is a very special talent.

Once you add in the fact that Maitland and Seymour have missed/will miss parts of this tournament you have a complete back line missing. Not a back line made out of duds, but a back line of the highest quality. I would suggest that Toonie is not judged until he puts out his best side over the course of a tournament. If the World Cup is an abject failure THEN we can judge him.


Yes, there are worrying instances: at Cardiff last year Wales seemed to have worked out our defensive systems and were able to play narrow then quickly hit the wide channels while our scramble defence was standing flat footed, look at their second try on Saturday. Deja vu all over again. Strangely for the man who loves a bit of Tombola we seem to be very predictable in terms of how we are going to play: this may explain why teams find us easy to defend against.


However, Toonie is still in his infancy as Scotland coach. Let's wait and see.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 5:57 pm

Re: Scotland 2019 - where do we go from here?


Back to the drawing board. i guess. thumbsup Laugh

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Post by Highland Shaun on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:45 pm

The question is, who do we replace Gregor with, that's why I'm not in favour of us sacking him!!? I would understand if he wanted to resign but it still leaves us with the question of who replaces him.

I personally would like Jake White, Bryan Redpath or Scott Robertson but they would be unlikely

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Post by BigGee on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 9:53 pm

We are not going to be replacing Toonie with anyone anytime soon. Not unless we have an absolute mare at the WC

Look how experienced the other 6N coaches are. Garland, Jones, Amit

You don't become a good international coach overnight and chopping and changing rarely works either, just ask the French!

I think Toonie needs and wants a full WC cycle to make his mark. Fans have short memories, it has not all been bad, we have had some great times with him at the helm. We just need to build in some consistency to go with the excitement

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Post by Highland Shaun on Mon 11 Mar 2019, 10:18 pm

I totally agree BigGee, its the fans calling for his sacking that I put my question too. I know for a fact that most of them will just post names that we know are highly unlikely to be on the shortlist or ones not as good as GT.

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Post by 123456789. on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 12:36 am

Simply put we do not have the rugby infrastructure to cope with the scale of injuries we have had this year. On top of that our top players that have been fit have lost form to go with it. The point that keeps coming up is to do with the timing of Cotter leaving and Townsend coming in. I would agree with that. I don't see what we gained making the switch when we did. However it is now a moot point. Vern is gone, and if Townsend is not our coach then who is? Rennie has hardly set the world alight at Glasgow and Cockerill is still in early days at Edinburgh and risks being a second Andy Robinson. Gatland and Schmidt won't touch us.
We have know for a long time that our depth is not good, it is improving but it is nowhere near the English, Irish, French and Welsh. When you consider that we started this tournament without nearly a full XV of players and have added to that repeatedly throughout the tournament it is hardly a surprise. The main leaders in our team were Laidlaw and Barclay; Laidlaw is out of form and Barclay is injured. Our best forwards over the last couple of years have been Gray and Watson; Gray is out of form and Watson was injured. Our best attacking threats were Jones and Hogg; Jones was out of form and then injured, Hogg got injured. Then you look at the rest of the players; Nel and Fagerson both were crocked and we lost a lot of our scrummaging ability from there, Richie Gray was out and quickly followed by Skinner so despite the fact that Jonny Gray has gone off the boil we didn't have a huge number of replacements. Ryan Wilson was injured very early in the tournament, Denton for all of his faults gives us good go forward when he plays, Toonie obviously doesn't rate Adam Ashe, Bradbury is only coming back to full fitness. Strauss in fairness has had some of his better games in a Scotland shirt, but that's not saying much, Glasgow saw the best of him. Ali Price has lost whatever he had and George Horne got injured. Adam Hastings has actually had quite a bright championship when he has played but came into off (you guessed it) a poor run of form, so when it came to it Peter Horne got the nod. Nick Grigg is not an international quality outside centre but then Mark Bennett has only just got back to full fitness. Our back three has been decimated, Hogg is one of the best players in the World and one of Scotland's best ever players and we lost him before the championship really got started. Seymour and Maitland were both poor when they were fit. Maitland I am surprised about because I have been incredibly impressed by him whenever he's played for Saracens. Seymour has been poor since the Lions and must be under serious pressure from Graham and Kinghorn for the shirt when they all get back.
In short, of our best 23 I'd say going into the tournament only MacInally, Dell and Johnson came in on good form and were still standing following half time in the Ireland game. Toonie has made mistakes, which I'll come to later, but he can only work with what he's got which is a small player pool. Add an injury crisis and a simultaneous loss of form and we will always struggle and will do until there is an enormous shift in the rugby infrastructure in the country. That is a long term struggle as anyone will tell you with a passing interest in professional rugby in Scotland. On top of a poor hand, Toonie made some monumental mistakes. Picking Horne over Hastings for example, Horne has never quite done it an international level in his position. Playing him at fly-half was a really negative selection. Hastings seems to have reacted well to it but you can't help but feel that we missed a really good opportunity there. Picking Ali Price over George Horne at the beginning of the tournament as well. Price has been poor for over a year now. Horne is a better player. If Price had any credit in the bank then surely he has spent it well before this year's tournament. Picking and then dropping Sam Johnson is another mistake, we have five games until the World Cup (give or take) Johnson needs to play as much as possible.
I would say that things are not as bad as they look. I predict that the squad that flies to Japan come september will be virtually unrecognisable to the training squad currently. Some of our travails this tournament may come in handy too, we've uncovered a potential quality international winger in Darcy Graham. Kinghorn has had experience at fifteen in the international arena; albeit he has hardly covered himself in glory but it may come in handy in Japan. Especially considering Hogg seems to be made of glass now.
We watched negative rugby played by defensive players in the hope that from time to time we might grind out a win for near enough a decade before Vern Cotter came in. Sometimes it worked, England in 2006 and 2008, France in 2006, Australia in 2009, Argentina in 2010, South Africa in 2010, Ireland in 2010, Ireland in 2013, Wales in 2007. I am sure there are others. In the last few years we have moved to a much better style simply because we have much better players. When those players get injured or lose form then we will struggle with the style we have now. But for now it's best to trust that when we get Huw Jones and Stuart Hogg back at their best, Maitland and Graham on the wings balancing experience and raw ability, Johnson and Russell working in tandem to set them all free with George Horne and Laidlaw mixing between control and excitement, David Denton providing go forward with Barclay and Watson bossing the breakdown, Jonny Gray tackling everything that moves and his brother tackling everything else and carrying on top, Nel and Fagerson bossing the scrum, Brown and MacInally playing like back rows in the front row and Dell actually simply playing like he is now then things will be much much better oh and who knows maybe Kyle Traynor will come back.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 1:44 am

Far too much soul searching on this thread..!

Scotland on their day even with a soccer teams worth of injuries can beat any team.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 5:34 am

Scotland had much the better of the second half last Saturday & were unlucky not to come away with a W.

Fine margins that’s all.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 6:26 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Scotland had much the better of the second half last Saturday & were unlucky not to come away with a W.

Fine margins that’s all.

Exactly, and like trev says they can win this weekend at HQ too

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Post by R!skysports on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:35 pm

Scotland 2019 - where do we go from here?

To think again...

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 3:39 pm

R!skysports wrote:Scotland 2019 - where do we go from here?

To think again...

but the crowd can't shout "what for" before that line in!!!
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Post by R!skysports on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 4:11 pm

In truth we have to give Toonie the world cup.

If he gets out the group then - stays for the next cycle.

Wins it, then I eat a cabbage raw singing the theme tune to Hamish Macbeth

Does not get out of the group - new coach please

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 6:32 pm

I wonder how much of an impact losing Dan McFarland and replacing him with Danny Wilson has to do with some of our struggles defensively. Our forwards took a step forward late in McFarlands tenure and I worry that could be the case with Danny Wilson. It may take him time to build up as a coach, time we don't really have.

Hopefully, in a few years, Grant can prove his worth at Ulster and come back but it is worrying that we sometimes burn Scots coaches such as Cotter, Lineen (when he left Glasgow) and coach R Gray

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Post by R!skysports on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 5:59 pm

Football

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 7:28 pm

So post 6Ns.

From today it's clear we can play some rugby. Albeit late in the day. Despite this it's still been a pretty poor 6Ns, in my mind today has taken some pressure off toonie, but he needs to learn from this in the upcoming preparations.

I'd like to see more structure for the WC, and with key players coming back, hopefully our execution in attack should improve. We should be taking our chances. Imagine if we'd done it against Ireland who, let's face it, played pretty poorly and beat us. We would have been looking at 3rd in the table, or potentially higher.

Centres need sorting, but I'd love to see Johnson with a strong 13 outside him. Jones on form would be amazing, but if Taylor returns to form quickly from injury, that would not be a bad alternative. Bennett also has a chance to show his talents, and Scott would be a great bench option or rotation.

8 still is a problem area, I'm concerned blade Thomson is out for the count. We are lacking options here still. Leftfield suggestion but why don't we consider barclay? Ritchie Barclay and Watson sounds like a nice potential combo.

Laidlaw has given himself a lifeline again. I think he needs Horne breathing down his neck. Price is a strange one. At the moment i wouldn't want him in the squad.

Darcy has to start over Seymour now. He is bang in form right now. Mcguigan still hasn't convinced me that he's an option, far too inconsistent. I'd be interested to see steyn and maybe a couple of fringe players.

Fullback i think we have decent cover and maybe this is where we can use Hastings most. Hogg is not invincible (sadly). Kinghorn has had good games but he is very much like Hogg in his early Scotland career. Hopefully he'll learn from this tournament and learn to pass!

A lot of things to consider, and hopefully a lot learnt.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 7:32 pm

If Scotland can take that form they showed today into the RWC they could be hard to beat.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 7:39 pm

Just some bullet points from me at the moment

Darcy Graham is electric going forward. Horribly exposed twice for two England tries though

Sam Johnson is much the same. Great in attack but defensively poor (he was all at sea for the try at the end)

Nick Grigg won’t play for Scotland again unless we have another 6 injured centres

Finn Russell is intergral to Scotland.

Ali price needs to get his head sorted. Physically capable athlete but brain farts galore

Strauss would never have scored Maggy’s try

The biggest one of all. Why did toonie make 4 changes after our 4th try??? It killed our momentum. This is where he’s struggling in my opinion.

We need to learn to be switched on for the full 80.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 7:44 pm

Agree re Darcy but Seymour has had similar defensive lapses recently and doesn't offer much in attack right now. I think it'd do him good to be dropped for a while.

As for Johnson, this is why i think he needs a good 13 and we need hogg back. Taylor would be a great foil for him if he makes it back.
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Post by jimbopip on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 8:52 am

Morning lads, I checked: it wasn't a dream Yahoo

So, it wasn't a great Six Nations; three defeats and a draw plus the mandatory home win against Italy.chin  

However, given the horrendous injury list there were plenty of positives.


Front row; Rambo, Brown, Turner three very good hookers (I know Turner didn't play but hass been excellent for Glasgow). Adele, Nelly both looked very capable. Ragnar the Pretty should be fit for Japan and it was great to see Shrek yesterday.

Second row; GG stepped up and is now genuinely worth his place in the team. It was great to see Toolis play the 80 yesterday. ickle Jonny and Big Brother should be back to fitness by Japan. Skinner played very well yesterday, albeit at 6, and if these are the five that go to Japan then there should be real competition for a starting place.


Back row; Barcs-Maggy- Hamish or Batman-Bluto-Ritchie add in Macro- Arthur Ashe- Fagerson and we have a wealth of genuinely good players. Choosing from that lot will lead to sleepless nights for Toonie and co.


Scrummie; if he takes three it MUST be Frodo, Aldi and Wee George. Henners will be unlucky but he's too similar to Frodo and nowhere near as rapid as the other two.


10; Dancer and Haircut. Interestingly, Haircut may have been in danger of losing his place to Furra Linee who provides a 10/12 option but one big positive from the carnage this season is Haircut is now the utility 10/15.


Centres; Johnson was the big winner here! OK he sold the jerseys for the first two tries, shooting out of the line and leaving everyone outside him exposed, BUT he showed he is a genuine test match 12 and had Toonie purring like a spoiled moggy after the game. Chris Harris also played well whenever he came on. Huw Jones should go as he is an exceptional attacking talent. However, with Dunbar and Taylor likely to miss out then; Furra Linee, Jimmy Johnston, Matt Scott, Seaman Steyn and even Stafford Of McDowell must all be in the reckoning.


Back three; Micro Graham is the big winner here. Must go to Japan. Hogg and King Barehorn Shocked will go too. NoMaits. Then it's anyone who can make a good case. Steyn could be a bolter as a 13/14.


Not a great tournament in terms of results, but we learned a lot about some fringe players and put in some spells of excellent rugby and some utter dross too.


A fully fit squad and Japan might not bee too traumatic.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 10:00 am

Whilst the comeback was good yesterday, and we almost saw a Scotland win at Twickenham for then first time in 36 years, the first half was beyond s**t.

The whole tournament has been largely poor and that needs to be addressed, its all well and good saying how close games were or if the ref had done x but ultimately we've only beaten Italy.

With that said there are positives we can take from this;

- Finn, we all know already but what a player he is when in form
- Bradbury, he was (in my opinion) very good at 8 yesterday, and I believe our first 8 to score a try since Beattie in 2010.
- Darcy, was quick and scored his tries well, has to be competing with Seymour going forward
- Johnson, aside from popping out the line a bit early, had a good game.
- Harris, I know it was only 30mins or so, but that was probably the best he has played for Scotland. I've been critical of him in the past, so calling him out here for a good performance.

There are others who played yesterday who maybe should be less proud of their performance, but will leave that for now.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 11:19 am

Glad to see no one is seeing this through rose tinted glasses (partly because the England team wore them for us in the second half).

I'd really like to get a defence consultant in. Part of the headlessness featured so prominantly derives from a poor defence. Who could do that job is another question. I think Matt Taylor is a great defence coach under a structured head coach, but as Toonie seems to be lacking in the tactics department we could really do with a tough barsteward enforcing our defensive organisation. Who this person would be, I don't know. The head honchos may look at this tournament then hire someone in. We saw the impact richie gray (coach) made a few years back.

The thought of having a full strength squad is exciting, provided Toonie has learnt from this tournament about game management. Basics need drilling in this summer, I think. No good playing with all the flair if you're just going to drop it in their 22.
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Post by R!skysports on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 11:37 am

Has toonie lost the players?.

The comments by Finn at the end might actually be an serious indication that the players not believe the stuff rookie is trying to do.

Certainly the way the players played this 6 nations they really did not seem to be that bothered.

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Post by TJ on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 11:51 am

Without the second half against England I would be very pessimistic for the WC.  The injuries just killed us this 6N.  No team can lose that many key players and still perform at their best.  What was disappointing is at times they looked like the beaten teams of years back not a team that expects to win every match.

There are obvious defensive frailties to address.  Looks organisational to me.  Attacking play has not been bad and Finn has definitely improved his game management  In Graham and Johnson we have discovered another couple of decent backs
4/10

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 12:28 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if a few of the players felt the same regarding verns somewhat rushed departure to make way for the anointed one. He was well liked and seemed to have the respect of most of the players. Respect has to be hard earned in sport, and i think toonies rapid ascension to scotland coach hasn't been without controversy. Scotland's equivalent of clive woodward (although if we win the WC I think the world might end).

Either way we have to make do. Who knows maybe the players will 'do a France' and make it to the semis.
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Post by SecretFly on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:03 pm

Was a post of mine deleted? Someone mentioned "the comments by Finn" and all I asked was what he said?
Or maybe the comment just didn't post but I'm almost certain it did.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:Was a post of mine deleted?  Someone mentioned "the comments by Finn" and all I asked was what he said?
Or maybe the comment just didn't post but I'm almost certain it did.

Finn made some remark as to having a blaring row at half time with Toony.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:16 pm

The bbc site has an article on it. Essentially he says to toonie aimlessly kicking it to England wasn't working and that our gameplan was pish from what i understand. It seems toonie disagreed.


Last edited by NeilyBroon on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by RDW on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:Was a post of mine deleted?  Someone mentioned "the comments by Finn" and all I asked was what he said?
Or maybe the comment just didn't post but I'm almost certain it did.
We've not deleted it.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 2:21 pm

RDW wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Was a post of mine deleted?  Someone mentioned "the comments by Finn" and all I asked was what he said?
Or maybe the comment just didn't post but I'm almost certain it did.
We've not deleted it.

A likely story.

Censorship.

Viva la revolución.

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