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Post by dynamark on Tue 26 Feb 2019, 5:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

I think its a done deal -no doubt he will be sat with the owner tonight
Villa should be a big big club remember going to cup semis there but probably need an owner willing to throw in some quick money .
No messing around in football these days from any of the owners.

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Post by JAS on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 10:47 am

dynamark wrote:FPTP is very poor all round and probably the main reason folk are less interested in their politics.
The referendum was a situation where every vote actually counted towards the result (high turnout)and now we are struggling because of our electoral set up to implement a result.
Unless I'm mistaken the Scots also had their vote on in/out and they still have a party trying  to run against the tide.Wierd.
.

To be fair a binary referendum is in effect a FPTP type vote. That in essence is the root of the problem, we should never have had a binary vote on what is clearly a non binary issue. Hindsight of course is a wonderful thing but the whole process was simply not planned or thought through, Cameron just assumed we’d vote remain and carry on. He only brought the vote to appease the right wing loonies in his own party to try and put an end to Tory civil war and defections to UKIP. Yeah well done David...good job!! How did the Tory hierarchy allow that to happen?? Then why did they then compound the issue after the vote by putting a remainer in charge of leaving?? Calamitous decision making in the extreme. Makes you wonder what their next trick is. Of course somehow in the corridors of Eton it will all be Corbyns fault....obviously!!

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Post by dynamark on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 11:07 am

Dead right Jas DC thought it was a formality and couldn't have been more wrong.When I mentioned Scotland I was thinking of the independence vote not the EU ref.

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Post by Diggers on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 11:27 am

In terms of Scotland you'd imagine that the desire for independence must have shot up, who could blame them, why would you want to be associated with what's going on at Westminster.

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Post by pedro on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 11:57 am

Diggers wrote:Cracking result for Liverpool, English clubs storming through. Still have a feeling Juve and Barca produce the winner in a final battle of 2 legends, both just about hanging onto their pomp.
No Brexit looming in the CL, that's for sure. City-Barca would make a great QF.

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Post by JAS on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:12 pm

pedro wrote:
Diggers wrote:Cracking result for Liverpool, English clubs storming through. Still have a feeling Juve and Barca produce the winner in a final battle of 2 legends, both just about hanging onto their pomp.
No Brexit looming in the CL, that's for sure. City-Barca would make a great QF.

Actually, if we do eventually leave and we have an end to free movement, what will that do to the transfer market and indeed the managerial merry go round? The QF managers are Spanish, German, Norwegian & Argentinian.


Last edited by JAS on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by pedro on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:15 pm

JAS wrote:
pedro wrote:
Diggers wrote:Cracking result for Liverpool, English clubs storming through. Still have a feeling Juve and Barca produce the winner in a final battle of 2 legends, both just about hanging onto their pomp.
No Brexit looming in the CL, that's for sure. City-Barca would make a great QF.

Actually, if we do eventually leave and we have an end to free movement, what will that do to the transfer market and indeed the managerial merry go round? The QF managers are Spanish, German, Norwegian & Argentinian.
Don't know about managers. But I guess the PL/FA would more freely be able to determine the max number of non British players in the teams?

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Post by JAS on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:34 pm

It does make me chuckle that there will be football crazy fans out there who will be rampant Brexiteers and are anti immigration and want to end free movement but quite happily cheer on a team thats full of players from all corners of the globe....hypocrisy personified!!

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:39 pm

Diggers wrote:In terms of Scotland you'd imagine that the desire for independence must have shot up, who could blame them, why would you want to be associated with what's going on at Westminster.

Support for independence has pretty much remained at the same levels for a while now.  I guess looking at how difficult it is to break up one long-standing trading and political union has delivered a bit of a reality check against the original "Project Fear" accusations and again highlighted just how light on detail and contingency planning the SNP's White Paper for independence was. It also makes a nonsense of the SNP's claims that independence could be managed within an 18 month period following the referendum.  

The immediate response to the break up of one successful union is not necessarily the break up of another successful union.

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Post by dynamark on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:49 pm

Just found out my golf club has been sold.This was the one that Leicester City wanted to buy to turn into a training centre but didn't happen for some complex legal reasons and they ended up buying Park Hill GC which is now a major construction site.
A consortium 'quote' so find out more tomorrow but word is carry on as usual.

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Post by Roller_Coaster on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 12:59 pm

dynamark wrote:Just found out my golf club has been sold.This was the one that Leicester City wanted to buy to turn into a training centre but didn't happen for some complex legal  reasons and they ended up buying Park Hill GC which is now a major construction site.
A consortium 'quote' so find out more tomorrow but word is carry on as usual.

Missing greens, losing balls, duffing chips etc etc?

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Post by JAS on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 1:02 pm

dynamark wrote:Just found out my golf club has been sold.This was the one that Leicester City wanted to buy to turn into a training centre but didn't happen for some complex legal  reasons and they ended up buying Park Hill GC which is now a major construction site.
A consortium 'quote' so find out more tomorrow but word is carry on as usual.

What club are you at Dyna?

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Post by McLaren on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 4:24 pm

I hate any form of nationalism but if I was forced to pick between English nationalism or SNP nationalism, I would probably go SNP. Who knows how genuine the left wing leanings the SNP portray are but at least they are not openly bigoted like the English nationalists are.

If Scotland could be returned to/stopped from leaving the EU I would vote for Independence to maintain the country I live in being part of a hopefully ever more so European federal system.
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Post by dynamark on Thu 14 Mar 2019, 5:00 pm

Roller I don't loose many balls now mainly because I don't hit it far enough to loose it.
We are Forest Hill GC ,Leics very inclusive and busy club now because of the loss of three other courses in the area.

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Post by McLaren on Fri 15 Mar 2019, 9:14 am

Super hasn't had a post for a bit. I hope he hasn't been in new Zealand.
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Post by Roller_Coaster on Fri 15 Mar 2019, 3:28 pm

dynamark wrote:Roller I don't loose many balls now mainly because I don't hit it far enough to loose it.

Ha ha thumbsup

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Post by dynamark on Fri 15 Mar 2019, 9:48 pm

Roller-I played again today in silly wind conditions and still not lost a ball.Daughter bought me a dozen for Xmas which should last all year at this rate .Little result though I paid my years fees last week and saved new owner has put £50 on the fees.The longest par 5 took five solid shots to reach the green into the wind.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 5:37 pm

I rarely take the time to have a little celebration but is it Beninho who is the Wycombe supporter? If so, we’ll done the mighty Shrews. Needed that result.

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Post by I'm never wrong on Sat 16 Mar 2019, 5:40 pm

Just looked at the Div 1 table. Only 3 points between 12th and 21st. Tight.

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Post by beninho on Sun 17 Mar 2019, 10:45 am

Yep, its me! Its horrible to lose to a 93rd minute pen. Terrible time to not win in 9 games, we've gone from looking safe to looking doomed. Bloody football

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Post by super_realist on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 7:45 am

McLaren wrote:Super hasn't had a post for a bit. I hope he hasn't been in new Zealand.

2 weeks in California Mac.

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Post by super_realist on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 7:53 am

McLaren wrote:I hate any form of nationalism but if I was forced to pick between English nationalism or SNP nationalism, I would probably go SNP.  Who knows how genuine the left wing leanings the SNP portray are but at least they are not openly bigoted like the English nationalists are.

If Scotland could be returned to/stopped from leaving the EU I would vote for Independence to maintain the country I live in being part of a hopefully ever more so European federal system.

Not openly bigoted Mac? Are you serious? The SNP are blatantly anti English, anti enterprise, anti innovation and basically anti success. If you work hard under the SNP and do well you are considered a traitor. You couldn't get a less inclusive party than the SNP. If you're not Scottish, or attached to their agenda of independence regardless of the cost, you aren't considered welcome in Scotland.

The party that wants to tax those who do well out of the country. I don't earn mega money, but I'm within the 41% bracket, and it costs me £1200 a year MORE for the pleasure of living in Sturgeon's Scotland, and what benefit do I get for that? Bugger all. The SNP don't seem to care if being Independent makes you better off, they want it regardless of whether they will be better off, and they have the temerity to slate those who want Brexit. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. The SNP are every bit as bad as those wishing for a no deal Brexit.


It is a petty, bitter, vindictive and anti British party supported by complete knuckle draggers, in many ways the same as the ERG in being stupid. I'm surprised you can't see the comparison

Have you ever met actual SNP voters Mac? They are so deluded, so one eyed, hypocritical,so short on facts that you'd probably actually fit in well there.
If I hear another SNP person say "It's Scotland's oil" I think I'll scream.

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Post by JAS on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:47 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:I hate any form of nationalism but if I was forced to pick between English nationalism or SNP nationalism, I would probably go SNP.  Who knows how genuine the left wing leanings the SNP portray are but at least they are not openly bigoted like the English nationalists are.

If Scotland could be returned to/stopped from leaving the EU I would vote for Independence to maintain the country I live in being part of a hopefully ever more so European federal system.

Not openly bigoted Mac? Are you serious? The SNP are blatantly anti English, anti enterprise, anti innovation and basically anti success. If you work hard under the SNP and do well you are considered a traitor. You couldn't get a less inclusive party than the SNP. If you're not Scottish, or attached to their agenda of independence regardless of the cost, you aren't considered welcome in Scotland.

The party that wants to tax those who do well out of the country. I don't earn mega money, but I'm within the 41% bracket, and it costs me £1200 a year MORE for the pleasure of living in Sturgeon's Scotland, and what benefit do I get for that? Bugger all. The SNP don't seem to care if being Independent makes you better off, they want it regardless of whether they will be better off, and they have the temerity to slate those who want Brexit. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. The SNP are every bit as bad as those wishing for a no deal Brexit.


It is a petty, bitter, vindictive and anti British party supported by complete knuckle draggers, in many ways the same as the ERG in being stupid. I'm surprised you can't see the comparison

Have you ever met actual SNP voters Mac? They are so deluded, so one eyed, hypocritical,so short on facts that you'd probably actually fit in well there.
If I hear another SNP person say "It's Scotland's oil" I think I'll scream.

How bizarre, I’m feeling the need to defend Mac here...we’ll not defend him exactly but point out that you’ve clearly misconstrued what Mac actually said. He quite clearly stated he hated all forms of Nationalism.
Think he was just trying to say that Scottish Nationslism is slightly less evil than the flavour more prevalent South of the border. I myself am not so sure that’s a clear cut distinction. Where there’s any form of Nationalism, at the extreme end of it theres hate. With English Nationalism that hate tends to be directed at immigrants and ethnic minorities, with Extremeist Scottish Nationalism it tends to be directed at the English. At the end of the day hate is hate and shouldn’t have a place in modern society but it does and the worst thing to do is to start saying “well that hatred isn’t as bad as that one”
With regard to the “I see no benefit and I’m taxed more” That self indulgent short sighted greed is exactly what keeps Tory governments in power. They know exactly how to tailor their lies to pander to that attitude.
Governments the world over need to stand up to this “I don’t like this tax regime because I don’t think it works for me - and if you don’t change it I’m going to leave then you’ll get nothing” attitude. That’s the attitude that eventually culminates in “Invest in Panama” There is only one answer Ok...you don’t want to be part of and play your part in a fair society...Go, go cuddle your material wealth in a tax haven and let us get on with building a better country, eradicating poverty and creating wealth that doesn’t come with your strings attached.


Last edited by JAS on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:56 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Typo)

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Post by super_realist on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:13 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:I hate any form of nationalism but if I was forced to pick between English nationalism or SNP nationalism, I would probably go SNP.  Who knows how genuine the left wing leanings the SNP portray are but at least they are not openly bigoted like the English nationalists are.

If Scotland could be returned to/stopped from leaving the EU I would vote for Independence to maintain the country I live in being part of a hopefully ever more so European federal system.

Not openly bigoted Mac? Are you serious? The SNP are blatantly anti English, anti enterprise, anti innovation and basically anti success. If you work hard under the SNP and do well you are considered a traitor. You couldn't get a less inclusive party than the SNP. If you're not Scottish, or attached to their agenda of independence regardless of the cost, you aren't considered welcome in Scotland.

The party that wants to tax those who do well out of the country. I don't earn mega money, but I'm within the 41% bracket, and it costs me £1200 a year MORE for the pleasure of living in Sturgeon's Scotland, and what benefit do I get for that? Bugger all. The SNP don't seem to care if being Independent makes you better off, they want it regardless of whether they will be better off, and they have the temerity to slate those who want Brexit. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious. The SNP are every bit as bad as those wishing for a no deal Brexit.


It is a petty, bitter, vindictive and anti British party supported by complete knuckle draggers, in many ways the same as the ERG in being stupid. I'm surprised you can't see the comparison

Have you ever met actual SNP voters Mac? They are so deluded, so one eyed, hypocritical,so short on facts that you'd probably actually fit in well there.
If I hear another SNP person say "It's Scotland's oil" I think I'll scream.

How bizarre, I’m feeling the need to defend Mac here...we’ll not defend him exactly but point out that you’ve clearly misconstrued what Mac actually said. He quite clearly stated he hated all forms of Nationalism.
Think he was just trying to say that Scottish Nationslism is slightly less evil than the flavour more prevalent South of the border. I myself am not so sure that’s a clear cut distinction. Where there’s any form of Nationalism, at the extreme end of it theres hate. With English Nationalism that hate tends to be directed at immigrants and ethnic minorities, with Extremeist Scottish Nationalism it tends to be directed at the English. At the end of the day hate is hate and shouldn’t have a place in modern society but it does and the worst thing to do is to start saying “well that hatred isn’t as bad as that one”
With regard to the “I see no benefit and I’m taxed more” That self indulgent short sighted greed is exactly what keeps Tory governments in power. They know exactly how to tailor their lies to pander to that attitude.
Governments the world over need to stand up to this “I don’t like this tax regime because I don’t think it works for me - and if you don’t change it I’m going to leave then you’ll get nothing” attitude. That’s the attitude that eventually culminates in “Invest in Panama” There is only one answer Ok...you don’t want to be part of and play your part in a fair society...Go, go cuddle your material wealth in a tax haven and let us get on with building a better country, eradicating poverty and creating wealth that doesn’t come with your strings attached.

I know what he was saying, but I think it would be idiotic to vote for a party just because of their stance on one particular issue, but then Mac is like that. It would be like voting for the Nazi's because Hitler had a great idea about Autobahns or a people's car. It doesn't mean the rest of their ideology doesn't completely stink, which of course the main agenda of the SNP absolutely does and is directly and ironically comparable to those who favour Brexit. Spot the hypocrisy.

My personal taxation issues are clear. I don't benefit any more from paying more to live in Scotland than I would if I paid less in England. I already contribute handsomely to the exchequer to pay for those things you mention. Public services etc are no better, in fact, if anything I should be getting a reduction for being less of a strain on the country than those who have children and who take more from society than I do. I already pay a bloody fortune in tax, which should already be going to eradicating "poverty and creating wealth" as you call it. How much more do you think I should pay? Why shouldn't there be a rebate for people who are putting less strain and taking far less out of society than others? I already support society more than my fair share without the extra I have to pay in Scotland.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 9:58 pm

Just because something is comparable , it doesn’t make it the same. There are also massive differences between Brexit and Scottish independence, and Brexit itself adds an extra level of nuance.
But some people completely fail to understand nuance.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 19 Mar 2019, 7:47 am

Diggers wrote:Just because something is comparable , it doesn’t make it the same. There are also massive differences between Brexit and Scottish independence, and Brexit itself adds an extra level of nuance.
But some people completely fail to understand nuance.

Or some people pretend that there's a difference to try to make their views legitimate. The point is that the people voting for Scottish Independence or Brexit are the same type of moron i.e. voting on something without any evidence to back their reasoning for doing so.

The difference between Scottish Independence and Brexit is like arguing between which of Chlamydia or Gonorrhea is worse. Neither is good and trying to distinguish between the two on "nuances" is plain stupid.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 19 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

The differences are massive, economically, culturally, historically. It’s just simple ignorance to say otherwise, so pretty much what I’d expect.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 19 Mar 2019, 10:49 am

Super if we consider that English Nationalists (Basically May's Tory government) and Scottish Nationalists (the SNP) have both been in government for quite some time now it quite easy to compare their respective policies.  For example you have already highlighted the difference in Tax regulations between the two parties.  Another obvious difference is how each leader and party view immigrants and refugees.  From her time in the home office and now as prime minister it is clear that May is very anti immigrant and multiculturalism while for Sturgeon is quite the opposite. Who knows, maybe Lego hair just knows that an independent Scotland would need many foreign workers so she has adopted her views on immigration from a point of pragmatism but for the moment it does mean the two nationalists have different policies.  

I still believe both mostly just partake in populism but in doing so one has had to adopt far right policies and the other some pretty left wing stuff. I find it odd that you don't see the differences.



What's more is that you my well have to decide which nationalists you want to side with, which was kinda the point of my original post, because as the fate of the UK is decided around brexit you may well face an independence vote in Scotland on whether to live in a non EU United kingdom or as part of a Independent Scotland within the EU.  Which could be possible now because the EU might well be inclined to subsidize an independent Scotland in the EU as two fingers to the English. As you have no doubt pointed out Scotlands economy is small, and therefor the EU could easily afford to keep it running for a while to make a point.

From what I can gather you would probably choose to remain part of the UK outside the EU rather than vote for Scottish Independence to stay within the EU.  My position is that I feel more allegiance to Europe than to the UK. If the Scottish independence vote centres around EU membership I will vote for an independent Scotland.  You have to remember that if Scotland stays in the EU we can go and live anywhere we want in the EU, so you wouldn't even have to "suffer" in an independent Scotland you could just vote to give yourself the chance to live somewhere nice.



(Also given we have no idea what an "independent" England looks like but we do know that the EU, despite its issues, continues to maintain some of the highest most liberal living standards in the world, would it count as lacking evidence and reasoning to vote to remain part of the EU over the unknown of and independent England?)
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Post by pedro on Tue 19 Mar 2019, 8:17 pm

Braveheart

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Post by super_realist on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 7:52 am

McLaren wrote:Super if we consider that English Nationalists (Basically May's Tory government) and Scottish Nationalists (the SNP) have both been in government for quite some time now it quite easy to compare their respective policies.  For example you have already highlighted the difference in Tax regulations between the two parties.  Another obvious difference is how each leader and party view immigrants and refugees.  From her time in the home office and now as prime minister it is clear that May is very anti immigrant and multiculturalism while for Sturgeon is quite the opposite. Who knows, maybe Lego hair just knows that an independent Scotland would need many foreign workers so she has adopted her views on immigration from a point of pragmatism but for the moment it does mean the two nationalists have different policies.  

I still believe both mostly just partake in populism but in doing so one has had to adopt far right policies and the other some pretty left wing stuff. I find it odd that you don't see the differences.



What's more is that you my well have to decide which nationalists you want to side with, which was kinda the point of my original post, because as the fate of the UK is decided around brexit you may well face an independence vote in Scotland on whether to live in a non EU United kingdom or as part of a Independent Scotland within the EU.  Which could be possible now because the EU might well be inclined to subsidize an independent Scotland in the EU as two fingers to the English. As you have no doubt pointed out Scotlands economy is small, and therefor the EU could easily afford to keep it running for a while to make a point.

From what I can gather you would probably choose to remain part of the UK outside the EU rather than vote for Scottish Independence to stay within the EU.  My position is that I feel more allegiance to Europe than to the UK. If the Scottish independence vote centres around EU membership I will vote for an independent Scotland.  You have to remember that if Scotland stays in the EU we can go and live anywhere we want in the EU, so you wouldn't even have to "suffer" in an independent Scotland you could just vote to give yourself the chance to live somewhere nice.



(Also given we have no idea what an "independent" England looks like but we do know that the EU, despite its issues, continues to maintain some of the highest most liberal living standards in the world, would it count as lacking evidence and reasoning to vote to remain part of the EU over the unknown of and independent England?)

Why would you want to side with either Mac?

Again you have no grasp of what I think. I support being in the EU, but I do not want an Independent Scotland as I don't think it is financially viable in the slightest. Not being in the EU will probably only cause a minor convenience to living in the EU, I wouldn't imagine it would be too difficult to obtain a permit to work somewhere providing you had the skills to do so. At least I have that chance of working in a foreign country, which is a great deal more than you ever will, so I can perhaps see why you'd like to vote for the SNP.

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Post by McLaren on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 11:32 am

super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref. The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.
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Post by JAS on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 12:24 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

So a hard border between Gretna & Berwick?? Didn’t Hadrian try that one :-p


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Post by McLaren on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 12:50 pm

Jas

You talk like the English know what sort of borders they want with the EU.
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Post by JAS on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 3:14 pm

McLaren wrote:Jas

You talk like the English know what sort of borders they want with the EU.

Not really Mac, as neither of us in Shengen, post independence a border would be required...period. Unless we cultivated a British version of Shengen for ourselves but that would quickly get complicated if Scotland somehow persuaded the EU to take them.Speaking of which you talk like the EU would just happily take Scotland....very unlikely that would happen as they wouldn’t be a net contributor would they?

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Post by McLaren on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 4:11 pm

As I said Jas, I could see the EU offering Scotland a helping hand to make a political point.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 4:33 pm

McLaren wrote:As I said Jas, I could see the EU offering Scotland a helping hand to make a political point.
You think they're that childish?
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Post by super_realist on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 5:33 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

There is no reason to believe that a new independence referendum would result in an independent Scotland. Peak SNP, like peak Corbyn has mercifully passed.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 20 Mar 2019, 5:34 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:As I said Jas, I could see the EU offering Scotland a helping hand to make a political point.
You think they're that childish?

I would seriously doubt that the EU has even heard of Scotland.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 8:57 am

super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

There is no reason to believe that a new independence referendum would result in an independent Scotland. Peak SNP, like peak Corbyn has mercifully passed.
Here's hoping, although the Tories are trying as hard as they can to maintain their support.

See Corbyn showed his natural leadership talents again last night - turns up to critical meeting with May and other 'leaders', sees Umunna there, spits dummy out apparently saying 'he's not a leader', and walks out. What an utter p***k.
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Post by JAS on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 9:42 am

How was that for a speech last night? In the contest between lies, insincerity and stupidity in the content and tone I think stupidity just made it by a short head. What chance does she have of getting anything through now? Think she needs to go see Lizzie and admit she’s snookered.

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Post by JAS on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 9:53 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

There is no reason to believe that a new independence referendum would result in an independent Scotland. Peak SNP, like peak Corbyn has mercifully passed.
Here's hoping, although the Tories are trying as hard as they can to maintain their support.

See Corbyn showed his natural leadership talents again last night - turns up to critical meeting with May and other 'leaders', sees Umunna there, spits dummy out apparently saying 'he's not a leader', and walks out. What an utter p***k.

Hmmm!! I think Corbyn was petulant in the circumstances however the point he was trying to make was valid.
A) TIG are not a party, they are a limited company with undisclosed financial backing
B) They have not yet submitted themselves to elections in their current guise
C) unless I’ve missed something they haven’t elected Chukka as their leader
So Corbyn was correct however even when you’re right it’s not always the right thing to do to throw your toys out the pram. Especially when you have a hair trigger media just waiting for you to step out of their view of how things should be done.

Personally I think May deliberately invited Chukka to get the reaction from Corbyn that she got, hoping that the Poopie over that would drown out her totally indefensible position. Sadly Corbyn obliged.


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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 9:54 am

JAS wrote:How was that for a speech last night? In the contest between lies, insincerity and stupidity in the content and tone  I think stupidity just made it by a short head. What chance does she have of getting anything through now? Think she needs to go see Lizzie and admit she’s snookered.
Pretty schidt, wasn't it? I was waiting for something momentous, but what I thought after she finished was, "Is that it?".
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 9:59 am

JAS wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

There is no reason to believe that a new independence referendum would result in an independent Scotland. Peak SNP, like peak Corbyn has mercifully passed.
Here's hoping, although the Tories are trying as hard as they can to maintain their support.

See Corbyn showed his natural leadership talents again last night - turns up to critical meeting with May and other 'leaders', sees Umunna there, spits dummy out apparently saying 'he's not a leader', and walks out. What an utter p***k.

Hmmm!! I think Corbyn was petulant in the circumstances however the point he was trying to make was valid.
A) TIG are not a party, they are a limited company with undisclosed financial backing
B) They have not yet submitted themselves to elections in their current guise
C) unless I’ve missed something they haven’t elected Chukka as their leader
So Corbyn was correct however even when you’re right it’s not always the right thing to do to throw your toys out the pram. Especially when you have a hair trigger media just waiting for you to step out of their view of how things should be done.

Personally I think May deliberately invited Chukka to get the reaction from Corbyn that she got, hoping that the Poopie over that would drown out her totally the ndefensible position. Sadly Corbyn obliged.
Agree with most of that. TIG are a significant group cf. others in the Commons. That's the reality, elected as TIG MPs, or not. Who cares if Chukka has been elected as their official leader? Presumably, TIG were happy for him to attend that meeting as their representative?
Tories are awful and the Labour leadership are doing a remarkably good impression of playing stupid games and being the worst opposition in recent memory.

Never was so much contempt owed by so many, to so few.
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Post by dynamark on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:15 pm

Not looking good is it fellow golfists.Makes the rules of golf look simple.
Several tories digging the trenches this morning and putting the roof on so we may well be and on the way to a no deal exit/new PM.
Speaker and the house not happy at all with May and I dread to think what her cabinet will be thinking and saying .
Corbyn still seeing this as an opportunity and I can see why the independent bunch have a role to play.Watch this space

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Post by Diggers on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:20 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
JAS wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
super_realist wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

Why would you want to side with either Mac?



Becuase you might have to if there is another Scottish Indyref.  The option could easily be between staying in a brexited UK or becoming an independent Scotland within the EU.

I appreciate that choice doesn't mean siding with the Tories or the SNP as such but they are the parties setting out the policies for how those states would look.

There is no reason to believe that a new independence referendum would result in an independent Scotland. Peak SNP, like peak Corbyn has mercifully passed.
Here's hoping, although the Tories are trying as hard as they can to maintain their support.

See Corbyn showed his natural leadership talents again last night - turns up to critical meeting with May and other 'leaders', sees Umunna there, spits dummy out apparently saying 'he's not a leader', and walks out. What an utter p***k.

Hmmm!! I think Corbyn was petulant in the circumstances however the point he was trying to make was valid.
A) TIG are not a party, they are a limited company with undisclosed financial backing
B) They have not yet submitted themselves to elections in their current guise
C) unless I’ve missed something they haven’t elected Chukka as their leader
So Corbyn was correct however even when you’re right it’s not always the right thing to do to throw your toys out the pram. Especially when you have a hair trigger media just waiting for you to step out of their view of how things should be done.

Personally I think May deliberately invited Chukka to get the reaction from Corbyn that she got, hoping that the Poopie over that would drown out her totally the ndefensible position. Sadly Corbyn obliged.
Agree with most of that. TIG are a significant group cf. others in the Commons. That's the reality, elected as TIG MPs, or not. Who cares if Chukka has been elected as their official leader? Presumably, TIG were happy for him to attend that meeting as their representative?
Tories are awful and the Labour leadership are doing a remarkably good impression of playing stupid games and being the worst opposition in recent memory.

Never was so much contempt owed by so many, to so few.

My understanding is that Corbyn was told he'd be having a 1 on 1 and got the hump when that turned out not to be the case. Can't say I blame him if he as told one thing and something else happened.
It shouldn't even be a story though, when compared to what May is doing, which is utterly contemptible. She is not listening to anyone, never has, that's patently clear, so what exactly are the opposition parties meant to have done in terms of forming a consensus policy? Its her way or the highway and damn the lot of you. I don't think I've ever hated a person more if I'm completely honest.
I've stopped trying to convince myself I have a clue as to what happens next, it's an utter lottery.
Anyone who voted leave and actually thinks that whatever we might get out of it some distant time in the future justifies this utter humiliation, vitriol and chaos needs sectioning.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:48 pm

Diggers wrote:

My understanding is that Corbyn was told he'd be having a 1 on 1 and got the hump when that turned out not to be the case. Can't say I blame him if he as told one thing and something else happened.
It shouldn't even be a story though, when compared to what May is doing, which is utterly contemptible. She is not listening to anyone, never has, that's patently clear, so what exactly are the opposition parties meant to have done in terms of forming a consensus policy? Its her way or the highway and damn the lot of you. I don't think I've ever hated a person more if I'm completely honest.
I've stopped trying to convince myself I have a clue as to what happens next, it's an utter lottery.
Anyone who voted leave and actually thinks that whatever we might get out of it some distant time in the future justifies this utter humiliation, vitriol and chaos needs sectioning.
What a baby.

Re. your hatred of May. TBH, we know next to nothing about what's actually happening, and that applies to the recent alleged behaviour by Corbyn as well as everything else. I have little to no respect for any of them any more. Dogmatic morons and pipsqueak politicians across the board. Run a Country? They can't run a bath. Agree, pretty much, with the last sentence though.
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Post by Diggers on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 1:07 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:

My understanding is that Corbyn was told he'd be having a 1 on 1 and got the hump when that turned out not to be the case. Can't say I blame him if he as told one thing and something else happened.
It shouldn't even be a story though, when compared to what May is doing, which is utterly contemptible. She is not listening to anyone, never has, that's patently clear, so what exactly are the opposition parties meant to have done in terms of forming a consensus policy? Its her way or the highway and damn the lot of you. I don't think I've ever hated a person more if I'm completely honest.
I've stopped trying to convince myself I have a clue as to what happens next, it's an utter lottery.
Anyone who voted leave and actually thinks that whatever we might get out of it some distant time in the future justifies this utter humiliation, vitriol and chaos needs sectioning.
What a baby.

Re. your hatred of May. TBH, we know next to nothing about what's actually happening, and that applies to the recent alleged behaviour by Corbyn as well as everything else. I have little to no respect for any of them any more. Dogmatic morons and pipsqueak politicians across the board. Run a Country? They can't run a bath. Agree, pretty much, with the last sentence though.
.

I'd be amazed if you'd never got heated over a situation regarding a meeting, know I have.
Confused as to what you think it is we don't know in regard to May. Seems perfectly obvious to me. She's running down the clock. She is refusing to take any advice. This information comes from her cabinet, her MP's and all the opposition parties. Struggling to see any confusion with that. She drew the red lines. She won't move on them. She was also, quite possibly, the most divisive Home Secretary in History, she was utterly useless. I posted on here when she came to power that her style of management, as demonstrated by here actions as HS, would lead to a shocking Brexit, has to be said that she has exceeded my expectations.

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Post by McLaren on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 1:15 pm

I would love to know why most of the country just seems to have forgotten or dismissed the fact she engineered the windrush deportations? Possibly the most openly racist policy carried out by a UK party in decades.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 1:39 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:

My understanding is that Corbyn was told he'd be having a 1 on 1 and got the hump when that turned out not to be the case. Can't say I blame him if he as told one thing and something else happened.
It shouldn't even be a story though, when compared to what May is doing, which is utterly contemptible. She is not listening to anyone, never has, that's patently clear, so what exactly are the opposition parties meant to have done in terms of forming a consensus policy? Its her way or the highway and damn the lot of you. I don't think I've ever hated a person more if I'm completely honest.
I've stopped trying to convince myself I have a clue as to what happens next, it's an utter lottery.
Anyone who voted leave and actually thinks that whatever we might get out of it some distant time in the future justifies this utter humiliation, vitriol and chaos needs sectioning.
What a baby.

Re. your hatred of May. TBH, we know next to nothing about what's actually happening, and that applies to the recent alleged behaviour by Corbyn as well as everything else. I have little to no respect for any of them any more. Dogmatic morons and pipsqueak politicians across the board. Run a Country? They can't run a bath. Agree, pretty much, with the last sentence though.
.

I'd be amazed if you'd never got heated over a situation regarding a meeting, know I have.
Me? Never Laugh. A bit different the meetings I'm involved in cf. the one Corbyn is supposed to have walked from. This is not a game.

Diggers wrote:Confused as to what you think it is we don't know in regard to May. Seems perfectly obvious to me. She's running down the clock. She is refusing to take any advice. This information comes from her cabinet, her MP's and all the opposition parties. Struggling to see any confusion with that. She drew the red lines. She won't move on them. She was also, quite possibly, the most divisive Home Secretary in History, she was utterly useless. I posted on here when she came to power that her style of management, as demonstrated by here actions as HS, would lead to a shocking Brexit, has to be said that she has exceeded my expectations.
Says whom? Other politicians who're playing games? How any of us can assume we know what's really happening/happened behind the scenes isn't credible.

McLaren wrote:I would love to know why most of the country just seems to have forgotten or dismissed the fact she engineered the windrush deportations? Possibly the most openly racist policy carried out by a UK party in decades.
Engineered? As in deliberately, and in full advance knowledge of the consequences to that specific group? Don't be absurd.
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Post by JAS on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 2:45 pm

Hey it could be worse, the Tories could have elected Chris Grayling as their leader...then we really would be all at sea....oh no wait, we wouldnt because we wouldn’t have a boat. Plus we’d have been late getting to the port anyway as the trains getting us there would be delayed. Having said all that, May’s in danger of making Grayling look almost competent.
Looking back it was Cameron’s error of judgement that started this nonsense, at least he had the decency to resign when it became clear he’d ballsed up. May on the other hand has had innumerable resignation opportunities for ballsing up and taken none of them. Time that husband of hers withdrew some of his Panama pension and dragged her off somewhere never to be seen again, due to her lunacy of the past 2-3 years the GFA is now also hanging by a thread....what a bloody legacy!!

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 3:05 pm

JAS wrote:Hey it could be worse1, the Tories could have elected Chris Grayling as their leader...then we really would be all at sea....oh no wait, we wouldnt because we wouldn’t have a boat. Plus we’d have been late getting to the port anyway as the trains getting us there would be delayed. Having said all that, May’s in danger of making Grayling look almost competent.
Looking back it was Cameron’s error of judgement that started this nonsense, at least he had the decency to resign when it became clear he’d ballsed up2. May on the other hand has had innumerable resignation opportunities for ballsing up and taken none of them. Time that husband of hers withdrew some of his Panama pension and dragged her off somewhere never to be seen again, due to her lunacy of the past 2-3 years the GFA is now also hanging by a thread....what a bloody legacy!!
1 - Yep, could be Mozambique just now.
2 - Some would call this abdication of duty/cowardice. I'd be one of them.
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