Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Post by dynamark on Tue 26 Feb 2019, 5:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

I think its a done deal -no doubt he will be sat with the owner tonight
Villa should be a big big club remember going to cup semis there but probably need an owner willing to throw in some quick money .
No messing around in football these days from any of the owners.

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Post by McLaren on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 2:42 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:Just a bit of propaganda.
Spoiler:
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:picard: The sort of dog whistle garbage I'd expect from America on what socialism has to mean.


Yup, US brands socialism together with communism, stigmatising both without knowing what either of them mean.
And casting Democrats as "liberals", the sort of rhetorical nonsense that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.
But "Progressive" seems to have snuck by without a misleading brandname, so far anyway, so Bernie and his other bolts can come up with what the hell they like, somewhat under the radar.

The sort of dog whistle like saying you would invite Tiger round for fried chicken?
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Post by McLaren on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 2:49 pm

Does anyone else find this new trend of leavers saying they have seen the light seriously irritating? It wasn't exactly difficult to work out in the first place.
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Post by Diggers on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 5:37 pm

Is there a new trend? I’m still amazed how few have seen the light.

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Post by Be_the_ball on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 5:58 pm

Diggers wrote:Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

Your wife is very understanding Diggers,
Laugh

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Post by super_realist on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 7:46 pm

Diggers wrote:Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

Heard that on Talkradio Diggers, can't imagine you tune in to Mike Graham though.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:40 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

Heard that on Talkradio Diggers, can't imagine you tune in to Mike Graham though.

No, heard it on 5, must be doing the rounds.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:42 pm

Be_the_ball wrote:
Diggers wrote:Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

Your wife is very understanding Diggers,
Laugh

She’s even more pro remain than me, BTB, that must mean we’d both be on the couch?

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Post by dynamark on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:55 pm

Digs did you do the march t the weekend .I'm pretty sure you are on the petition - several times possibly.
This will be a very interesting and unusual week in history possibly- still the basic issue that parliament the elected representatives are very reluctant to carry out the will of the electorate. If they refuse there will be a hell of a march

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Post by Be_the_ball on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:32 pm

Diggers wrote:
Be_the_ball wrote:
Diggers wrote:Heard a great analogy about Brexit this morning. Described as like splitting up with your boyfriend and 2 years later they are sleeping on your couch. Sums it up perfectly.

Your wife is very understanding Diggers,
Laugh

She’s even more pro remain than me, BTB, that must mean we’d both be on the couch?

Laugh  Laugh  Laugh

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Post by Diggers on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:45 pm

dynamark wrote:Digs did you do the march t the weekend .I'm pretty sure you are on the petition - several times possibly.
This will be a very interesting and unusual week in history possibly- still the basic issue that parliament the elected representatives are very reluctant to carry out the will of the electorate. If they refuse there will be a hell of a march

No, thought about it but didn’t want to take the kids. Petition signed, just the once. Leavers don’t seem to march, it’s student thing really and they are mainly remainders (or former students who are more left and have marched before). The only leaver protestors are the right wing nutters, I think that’s why the Leave campaign aren’t fussed about public protests as they know it won’t get positive press...or many people.
If I’m honest I’ve come round to accepting that some form of customs union and single market would be the best compromise, but I won’t be upset if Article 50 is revoked. Suspect longer term postponement is likely outcome.

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Post by Diggers on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:48 pm

England looking good again, I always thought Barkley would come good, still only 25 and far more complete now. There really is some talent in that side, must be a nightmare to defend against. Anyone of 6 can do a job up front.

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Post by pedro on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:52 pm

Must be mac and super flying this plane
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47691478

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Post by pedro on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:57 pm

The NHS facing yet another cut..
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-circumcised-mistake-hospital-blunder-14183275

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Post by super_realist on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 7:53 am

Diggers wrote:
dynamark wrote:Digs did you do the march t the weekend .I'm pretty sure you are on the petition - several times possibly.
This will be a very interesting and unusual week in history possibly- still the basic issue that parliament the elected representatives are very reluctant to carry out the will of the electorate. If they refuse there will be a hell of a march

No, thought about it but didn’t want to take the kids. Petition signed, just the once. Leavers don’t seem to march, it’s student thing really and they are mainly remainders (or former students who are more left and have marched before). The only leaver protestors are the right wing nutters, I think that’s why the Leave campaign aren’t fussed about public protests as they know it won’t get positive press...or many people.
If I’m honest I’ve come round to accepting that some form of customs union and single market would be the best compromise, but I won’t be upset if Article 50 is revoked. Suspect longer term postponement is likely outcome.

The march at the weekend was characterised by the old. Didn't see many "youth" in the pictures I saw and from what was being reported.

I don't really see the point in marching. When was the last time any sort of protest ever ended in the reverse of a decision? As a remainer, the constant moaning is really quite embarrassing.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:29 am

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:
dynamark wrote:Digs did you do the march t the weekend .I'm pretty sure you are on the petition - several times possibly.
This will be a very interesting and unusual week in history possibly- still the basic issue that parliament the elected representatives are very reluctant to carry out the will of the electorate. If they refuse there will be a hell of a march

No, thought about it but didn’t want to take the kids. Petition signed, just the once. Leavers don’t seem to march, it’s student thing really and they are mainly remainders (or former students who are more left and have marched before). The only leaver protestors are the right wing nutters, I think that’s why the Leave campaign aren’t fussed about public protests as they know it won’t get positive press...or many people.
If I’m honest I’ve come round to accepting that some form of customs union and single market would be the best compromise, but I won’t be upset if Article 50 is revoked. Suspect longer term postponement is likely outcome.

The march at the weekend was characterised by the old. Didn't see many "youth" in the pictures I saw and from what was being reported.

I don't really see the point in marching. When was the last time any sort of protest ever ended in the reverse of a decision? As a remainer, the constant moaning is really quite embarrassing.

Plenty of young people in the pictures I’ve seen and my friends who went backed this up.
Have you been on a march? Firstly, they are fun, great atmosphere and a chance to meet like minded people. In France they do take notice of this kind of thing, not so much here but it’s still a talking point. The petition shows there is a massive support for an outright quitting of the process.
Leavers have moaned for 40 years, that’s why we are in this mess. People moan it’s human nature, you are as good an example of that as anyone.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:41 am

I wouldn't waste my time Diggers. I can't see how it would be fun in the slightest.

A petition is fine, because it's actually something for which there is a precedent for action to be taken given a certain amount of signatories albeit it simply a "discussion in Parliament" which will be swiftly cast aside anyway. It's simply a token gesture to make protestors think that their minority voice will be heard, it won't.

It doesn't matter about any "petition" really, because the majority sadly voted for Brexit and unfortunately that is what we are going to get whilst usurping democracy by trying to force a non brexit, no matter how many people you think don't want Brexit, isn't going to change anything or the result of the referendum.

We can all agree this has been a right old mess, but a million time wasting idiots in London isn't going to change a single thing.

Ironic you call me a moaner, when that is precisely what you do each and every day on this issue, in fact you probably moan a lot more on here than I do.


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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:47 am

Diggers wrote:Interesting few days for May, she could easily go. Looks utterly broken in every way, I'd feel sorry for her if...nope, can't think of a reason.  Can't confess to knowing much about Lidington, supposedly a very nice chap, I suspect he'll lose friends quickly if he does end up as PM.
Gove would be such a poor choice, same negotiating style as May, basically doesn't listen, wouldn't listen to anyone in Education, thought he knew better, and made a complete horlicks of that.
One way or another, this is heading for the buffers at a rate of knots. Going to be a big pile up. Both of the major parties are going to be reviled for some time to come.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:49 am

McLaren wrote:
kwinigolfer wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
pedro wrote:Just a bit of propaganda.
Spoiler:
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picard The sort of dog whistle garbage I'd expect from America on what socialism has to mean.


Yup, US brands socialism together with communism, stigmatising both without knowing what either of them mean.
And casting Democrats as "liberals", the sort of rhetorical nonsense that would be laughable if it wasn't so serious.
But "Progressive" seems to have snuck by without a misleading brandname, so far anyway, so Bernie and his other bolts can come up with what the hell they like, somewhat under the radar.

The sort of dog whistle like saying you would invite Tiger round for fried chicken?
Rolling Eyes If you have nothing relevant to say on the topic, best not to embarrass yourself.
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:50 am

I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 8:56 am

Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:07 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.

So what’s your point? People with an opinion shouldn’t feel free to express it? Because that won’t end well.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:13 am

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.

So what’s your point? People with an opinion shouldn’t feel free to express it? Because that won’t end well.
Sure; they can express it all they want. I'm just suggesting it makes f-all difference here.
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:24 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.

So what’s your point? People with an opinion shouldn’t feel free to express it? Because that won’t end well.
Sure; they can express it all they want. I'm just suggesting it makes f-all difference here.

Seems to have got plenty of people talking. There is a case the petition has energised the revoke 50 campaign. It’s not f all just because there is no direct consequence.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:46 am

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.

So what’s your point? People with an opinion shouldn’t feel free to express it? Because that won’t end well.
Sure; they can express it all they want. I'm just suggesting it makes f-all difference here.

Seems to have got plenty of people talking. There is a case the petition has energised the revoke 50 campaign. It’s not f all just because there is no direct consequence.
🤷 Talk is all it is. I suppose that's a good thing, but it's a bit late. Parliament nixed the amendment on a second referendum by ~4 to 1. I think most MPs appreciate what it would mean to, effectively, overturn the 2016 result. Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.

I'm a bit ambivalent on outcomes here - I am an ardent 'remainer', but the UK voted to leave the EU. Parliament could overturn the referendum, of course it could, but a lot of people need to accept what that could, and almost certainly would, mean for future politics and potential civil unrest.
As a random additional thought, a revocation of A50, for example, or overturning the referendum outcome would be interesting for nationalist politics in the wider EU. I'm sure that wouldn't help calm the nationalist agendas at all. You can see the narrative I hope? EU screw over the UK referendum vote; what hope have we got? We'll never be 'free' etc etc
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:55 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:I definitely moan, I've no problem with being called a moaner. What I'm not is a bitter and twisted people hater. I can imagine that a million people gathered together would be a bit of a nightmare for you, especially if they were having a good time.
A million people on a march? Like-minded people (so, an echo chamber then?). Wow. >17 million voted 'out'. 5 million sign a petition that's not subject to the same controls as an election/referendum? Wow. >17 million voted out. Parliament utterly trashed an amendment on a new referendum.

This is not going to end well.

So what’s your point? People with an opinion shouldn’t feel free to express it? Because that won’t end well.
Sure; they can express it all they want. I'm just suggesting it makes f-all difference here.

Seems to have got plenty of people talking. There is a case the petition has energised the revoke 50 campaign. It’s not f all just because there is no direct consequence.
🤷 Talk is all it is. I suppose that's a good thing, but it's a bit late. Parliament nixed the amendment on a second referendum by ~4 to 1. I think most MPs appreciate what it would mean to, effectively, overturn the 2016 result. Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.

I'm a bit ambivalent on outcomes here - I am an ardent 'remainer', but the UK voted to leave the EU. Parliament could overturn the referendum, of course it could, but a lot of people need to accept what that could, and almost certainly would, mean for future politics and potential civil unrest.
As a random additional thought, a revocation of A50, for example, or overturning the referendum outcome would be interesting for nationalist politics in the wider EU. I'm sure that wouldn't help calm the nationalist agendas at all. You can see the narrative I hope? EU screw over the UK referendum vote; what hope have we got? We'll never be 'free' etc etc

The talk hasn't just started, its always been there. Re the nationalist narrative, to be honest that's not simple either. A hard Brexit gives rise to populism and isolationism, potentially a less multi-cultural and liberal society. I'd take Article 50 being revoked over a hard Brexit all day long.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:05 pm

navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.
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Post by McLaren on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:10 pm

super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
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Post by McLaren on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:13 pm

Navy

Could be wrong but I think those guys at the England match last night were just really excited to be going to the zoo this weekend. There is no way they could have known how insensitive those noises might appear to others. Wink
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Post by dynamark on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:16 pm

I think what mac is saying is that the MPs may well know best /be in a better position to judge and I agree that is why we have them running the shop as our managers instead of the average Joe.
Problem is there was a referendum and manifestos and previous votes and the process is there.
Is Dunning Kruger anything to do with golf course design ?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:23 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.
Laugh You really are a nauseating individual.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:24 pm

McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:27 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

Could be wrong but I think those guys at the England match last night were just really excited to be going to the zoo this weekend. There is no way they could have known how insensitive those noises might appear to others.  Wink
Tumbleweed Do you know what a non-sequitur is?
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Post by McLaren on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:31 pm

Oddly your post demonstrates an example of one.
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Post by superflyweight on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:32 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.
Laugh You really are a nauseating individual.

An immoderate post from a moderator.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:37 pm

superflyweight wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.
Laugh You really are a nauseating individual.

An immoderate post from a moderator.
Qué sera. You have a point, and I should know better, but it's no less true for all that.
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:37 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?

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Post by JAS on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:38 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual? You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 12:50 pm

JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.


Last edited by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 1:15 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by McLaren on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 1:06 pm

JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:05 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out  clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?
No, but it was a pretty clear binary choice wasn't it?
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:32 pm

Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?
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Post by superflyweight on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:40 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?

He's bet against the British economy that's why he wants Brexit. He hasn't ever presented a sensible and well thought out reason (backed up with evidence) for leaving.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:50 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out  clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?
No, but it was a pretty clear binary choice wasn't it?

Isn't that the confusion. If it was so clearly binary, why are we where we are at? Even leave voters can't agree what sort of leave they want, it's not like they all want a no deal exit.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:55 pm

superflyweight wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?

He's bet against the British economy that's why he wants Brexit.  He hasn't ever presented a sensible and well thought out reason (backed up with evidence) for leaving.  
Fine, and I don't necessarily disagree. That doesn't make him a thicko though, does it?
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?

It's just an observation that I think they are thicker. I don't say that because I'm a remainer. They were mainly older, we know that, more brain cells have died (that also includes me though). I also think they are likely to be more parochial, therefore perhaps less interested in the wider world. You could argue that the thickest people are the apathetic.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:58 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out  clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?
No, but it was a pretty clear binary choice wasn't it?

Isn't that the confusion. If it was so clearly binary, why are we where we are at? Even leave voters can't agree what sort of leave they want, it's not like they all want a no deal exit.
Not my problem. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed pretty obvious at the time. In/out; details (obviously Doh) to be sorted out after result known. Clearly, there were loads of options possible on that basis. If people didn't know what that meant, or could include, surely the safe vote was to remain wasn't it? Better on the inside p!ssing out.
Too many are assuming people voted out because they're thick/didn't know what they were voting for - perhaps they knew damned well? Scary eh?
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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 2:59 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?

He's bet against the British economy that's why he wants Brexit.  He hasn't ever presented a sensible and well thought out reason (backed up with evidence) for leaving.  
Fine, and I don't necessarily disagree. That doesn't make him a thicko though, does it?

If we end up with no Brexit, it will be largely due to the ERG, who want it more that anyone. If that turns out to bet he case I'd rate him among the stupidest people alive. He is blinded by ideology, that has to be a form of ignorance.

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Post by Diggers on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 3:00 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out  clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?
No, but it was a pretty clear binary choice wasn't it?

Isn't that the confusion. If it was so clearly binary, why are we where we are at? Even leave voters can't agree what sort of leave they want, it's not like they all want a no deal exit.
Not my problem. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed pretty obvious at the time. In/out; details (obviously Doh) to be sorted out after result known. Clearly, there were loads of options possible on that basis. If people didn't know what that meant, or could include, surely the safe vote was to remain wasn't it? Better on the inside p!ssing out.
Too many are assuming people voted out because they're thick/didn't know what they were voting for - perhaps they knew damned well? Scary eh?

I still don't understand your point, or rather, what your fair solution is to make it all "OK". As far as I can see you're just moaning at everyone's opinion.


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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 3:04 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
JAS wrote:
McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote: Too many 'remainers' don't appear to grasp this and their hypocrisy is nauseating.


What too many leavers fail to grasp is that they have partaken in a mass scale demonstration of the Dunning-Kruger effect and it might be time to let the side with the intellectuals on it take over.

What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side? Why? Because they agree with you therefore they must be intellectual?  You really do come up with some absolute gems at times Mac.

There are of course exceptions, but from an observational perspective I do think leave votes are generally thicker.
This sort of thing (and Mac's comment) are one of the contributory reasons we have Brexit and Trump.

McLaren wrote:
JAS wrote:What? ALL the intellectuals are on the remain side?


I know this is committing the appeal to authority fallacy but for the fun of it name an intellectual that is a known leaver?
Not read it, but:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/920701/brexit-leading-intellectuals-unite-remoaner-lies-brexiteers-baroness-ruth-deech

Whatever one thinks of Rees-Mogg, he doesn't strike me as 'thick'.

Your vote is worth no more than the next person's. If these 'thick' people weren't informed well enough to make the 'right' choice, who's fault is that?

It's just an observation that I think they are thicker. I don't say that because I'm a remainer. They were mainly older, we know that, more brain cells have died (that also includes me though). I also think they are likely to be more parochial, therefore perhaps less interested in the wider world. You could argue that the thickest people are the apathetic.
I get the gist of what you're saying, but the tone is awful. Some of these old thickos fought and died for the Country so that you could label them 'thick'? Many more of that demographic (well, young and 'thick' anyway) would bear the brunt of any conflict. Even if they are 'thicker' (and there could be many reasons for that; surprised at you there), what makes their opinion/vote of any less worth than yours? Or mine?

Parochial is fine - who're we to say they can't be parochial? More brain cells died? So what? An 18-y/o has less life experience etc. As I said before, whose fault is it that they couldn't be convinced that being in the EU was of benefit to them and this Country?


Last edited by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Can't spell 'whose'...)
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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 3:06 pm

Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Diggers wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
super_realist wrote:

I don't really see the point in marching.

Ok, so if you wanted to see political change happen what strategies would you use or recommend others to use in order to go about making that change happen?
Vote in a chuffing election/referendum?

If only that referendum had laid out  clear choices where there could be no disagreement. Leave with no deal = tear up the Good Friday Agreement. Was that on the ballot?
No, but it was a pretty clear binary choice wasn't it?

Isn't that the confusion. If it was so clearly binary, why are we where we are at? Even leave voters can't agree what sort of leave they want, it's not like they all want a no deal exit.
Not my problem. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed pretty obvious at the time. In/out; details (obviously Doh) to be sorted out after result known. Clearly, there were loads of options possible on that basis. If people didn't know what that meant, or could include, surely the safe vote was to remain wasn't it? Better on the inside p!ssing out.
Too many are assuming people voted out because they're thick/didn't know what they were voting for - perhaps they knew damned well? Scary eh?

I still don't understand your point, or rather, what your fair solution is to make it all "OK". As far as I can see you're just moaning at everyone's opinion.

My point, insofar as this post makes one, is that the result was 'out' and, if people were unsure at the time, the obvious would have been to stay with the status quo. My solution? Honour the referendum result? Nothing, now, is going to make it all 'OK'.
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