Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 10:56 am

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though
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Post by tigertattie on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:18 pm

Eejit wrote:Not a bad idea Tattie. Would also add a bit of ballast to that Glasgow back row. Wilson-CDP-Cully would be plenty abrasive.

Is Cully mr Gibbons? I like him, good player. Seems to have dropped off a bit from last year though (even before his injury)
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Post by EWT Spoons on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:37 pm


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Post by jimbopip on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 1:22 pm

tigertattie wrote:Absolutely. He's like David Denton, Bob Harley and Finn Russell all rolled into one.  
So am I. Very Happy

I have Denton's handlingskills, Bob Harley's place-kicking and Finn's loquacity.

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Post by RDW on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:40 pm

Lovely pass from Hutchinson in their demolition away to Leicester tonight - he's on great form.

SHC straight onto the bench got Quins tomorrow too.

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Post by Eejit on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:42 pm

Steff Evans to Glasgow is a rumour on the Scarlets forum.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:50 pm

Am watching recording of Saints game

Hutchinson looks class, having a very good game. Leicester it has to be said though are awful. Their international players still look she'll shocked from last weekend

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Post by RDW on Fri 22 Mar 2019, 10:58 pm

Eejit wrote:Steff Evans to Glasgow is a rumour on the Scarlets forum.
Strange one - he'd fit in well but Glasgow don't really need s winger. He'd lose Wales selection too although he's not getting a look in just now.

Scarlets have completely nosedived since they won the league so that, combined with the financial state of the Union just now, might prompt players like him to look elsewhere.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 8:37 am

RDW wrote:
Eejit wrote:Steff Evans to Glasgow is a rumour on the Scarlets forum.
Strange one - he'd fit in well but Glasgow don't really need s winger. He'd lose Wales selection too although he's not getting a look in just now.

Scarlets have completely nosedived since they won the league so that, combined with the financial state of the Union just now, might prompt players like him to look elsewhere.

Steff Evans always reminds me of the Canadian VDM on the Glasgow wing, so it's very much a like for like in my view. I'd agree though that wing shouldn't be a big priority for Glasgow, they've got Lee Jones after all.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 9:04 am

I suppose we will lose a couple of wingers at least to WC squads and Tommy S and VDM are coming towards the end of their careers.

He would be a good addition to the squad, but strange that he would give up on his international ambitions at this stage, even if he has fallen well down the pecking order.

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Post by RDW on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 9:29 am

How good was it to see John Barclay back playing? It's a testament to modern conditioning that he played 70 minutes and kept going to the end - he only started running again a few weeks ago. Takes me months to build up fitness at pre-season training!

Bet he's feeling sore this morning!

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Post by RDW on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 12:11 pm

https://youtu.be/oZ5zmzP6_vU



This is brilliant

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 9:54 pm

RDW wrote:https://youtu.be/oZ5zmzP6_vU



This is brilliant

Allan Jacobson. Part Panner, part belly

Absolute ledge
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Post by EWT Spoons on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 11:15 pm

Edinburgh have apparently signed a Fijian winger. Don't know his name at this point, but given there was a story of two Fijian players coming on trial, one of them is the lad I posted about previously, I'd assume the winger is the other bloke.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 11:53 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Edinburgh have apparently signed a Fijian winger. Don't know his name at this point, but given there was a story of two Fijian players coming on trial, one of them is the lad I posted about previously, I'd assume the winger is the other bloke.

Graham. VDM, Blain, Hoyland, Kinghorn, Fife, Fijian bloke

Edinburgh are definitely stacking up a few decent wingers

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Post by RDW on Sat 23 Mar 2019, 11:56 pm

Not sure Hoyland and Brown will still be there next season! They're unlikely to play again this season to stake their claim for a contract renewal, barring injuries.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 9:23 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47643144

I have always been more appreciative of Scott Johnson than others on the forum. You can't deny that Scottish rugby has improved massively on his watch. Some of that must be due to him, even though many are reluctant to give him any credit.

I wonder who might take the role on next?

Could Vern Cotter come back?

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Post by BigGee on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 1:09 pm

Mark Palmer interview with Bill Mata in the Sunday Times

Looks like he took a fair bit of knocking into shape!

His son could play for Scotland!

Looks like he plans on heading off at the end of this contract extension though



Bill Mata in his element is a sight to behold. Especially if you’re the opposition defender wondering which it’s to be: steamrollered by his pace and power, or embarrassed by his sleight of hand. Catching the Fijian out of his comfort zone requires an early-morning visit to the Murrayfield gym, deep in the bowels of the stadium which Mata will likely have in thrall once more when Munster arrive on Saturday.

It’s in this windowless space where the 27-year-old has his daily interaction with the Wattbike, an instrument of torture he has learned to respect but could never love. Other Edinburgh players chide the conditioners for flogging Big Bill half to death, yet he knows better than anyone it’s always for his own good. And just how good has he become, this No 8 of the endless hard carries and the baby-soft hands?


“Last season was my best one, when Lummers [Nick Lumley] came in as strength and conditioning coach,” he says, taking a seat for the first in-depth newspaper interview he has given since arriving with a freshly minted gold medal from the 2016 Olympics. “Lummers put in a programme that suits me really well and I’ve kept getting better. He’s the one who should take the credit. Do I say that when I’m on the Wattbike? No, but it’s something you just have to do.

“When Lummers first came in [June 2017], he thought I was big. Big as in fat. He helped me with my diet and it really worked: I lost a few kilos and got skinny! It was about learning. It’s different from home — there you eat a lot of food that’s healthy but could contain a lot of fat. Moving to this country, you have to adapt, get with the programme, see what other boys are eating and do the same.”

Lumley always harks back to a photo he spotted online of Mata guesting for the Fijian Drua two summers ago when he was given leave to iron out visa issues. At first glance, it looks like someone has swapped Mata’s upper half for that of Allan Jacobsen, an impression that didn’t disappear when Lumley got him on the scales. After three months on the island, he was 10kg heavier than his fighting weight from the year before in Rio. It wasn’t a question of ill-discipline, more of education.




Lumley began taking him food shopping to put the right things in his basket, aided by another Fijian, Jo Nayacavou, who had been a pet project in the conditioner’s previous role with Scotland Sevens. Nayacavou, who like Mata hails from near the capital, Suva, had already made the same journey, from one side of the planet and one set of expectations to another.

“We always used to talk on the Sevens World Series circuit, and he was the only person we knew at the start over here,” says Mata, who was accompanied by wife Wati and daughter Vinny. “We stayed with him and his family for the first few weeks and they looked after us so well we didn’t feel homesick at all. We moved to our own house, but Jo, his wife and two children still visit a lot. We were very happy and very lucky that when we came to a new environment, we had somebody to care for us. I’d been to London and to Scotstoun for the Sevens, but apart from that it was get on a plane for 32 hours and see what life far away from the island looks like.” Arriving to a Scottish winter (it was September, after all), the cold was and remains an issue. But the Mata clan have thrived — and expanded — in the Scottish capital. Just after last year’s November Tests, when Mata was a Murrayfield try-scorer against Scotland, a boy, Viliame junior, came along. Roll on the 2039 World Cup and a Scottish Mata.

Vinny starts school this August (“she’s so excited about it all: her nursery starts at 12.45pm, but by 10am she’s standing there ready to go”) and there are just enough traces of home. The Pacific Island players at both Scottish pro-clubs regularly meet up at events part-organised by Netani Talei, the Fijian No 8 at the heart of Edinburgh’s last great European charge in season 2011-12.

“Those days are mostly just kava and eating,” laughs Mata, who warmed up for Munster with a try and 23 carries in the bonus-point win over Leinster. “There are a lot of Fijians in Edinburgh, mostly in the military. You maybe don’t see them much: it’s so cold they maybe stay indoors. But when there’s a Fijian function, or a Fijian ceremony, you see there are a lot of us.”



Racing away: Bill Mata has had a large impact on Edinburgh’s results this season

Racing away: Bill Mata has had a large impact on Edinburgh’s results this season
ROSS PARKER

Mata, his two brothers and his sister grew up in a house ruled by the iron fist of their mother, Aliti. His father, Sitiveni, worked overseas, first as a peacekeeper in the military then as a logistics officer for security company G4S. It was to Aliti that Ben Ryan appealed when the former Fiji Sevens coach thought Mata was in danger of wasting his obvious talent. “Ben and the manager [Ropate Kauvesi] came to the house to encourage me to push me a little bit more. Get fitter, work harder so I could maybe get offered a contract. It was really tough for mum with dad being away for six months, coming back for a few months then having to go again. But all the siblings managed to finish school so she did a great job.”

Mata initially expected rugby to take him to New Zealand, but Edinburgh moved first. You’d never believe now that the former rugby league man had only played four games of 15s in his entire life prior to signing. In this season’s Champions Cup, he was man of the match in both wins over Toulon, carried the ball more often (115 times) than anyone else in the pool phase, and made more metres (394) than any other forward. His offload for the James Johnstone try at the Stade Mayol deserves its own heavenly category.

“I’m not really a good offloader,” says Mata, keeping a straight face. “What I mean is, I pick my moment. I don’t do it often. [Leone] Nakarawa, it’s just natural for him, he does it all the time. Even when he’s defending, he still does it. I wouldn’t match myself with Nakarawa: he’s just too good. But Toulon was my best so far because it’s really hitting the internet!”

Cockerill, that brilliant curmudgeon, called the offload “pretty average”, possibly just to ward off the string of suitors who have been kept at arm’s length by Mata signing a one-year extension to the contract due to expire in 2020. It is unclear whether Cockerill did indeed have to sell one of his children’s kidneys to fund the £350,000-a-year terms apparently contained in the deal.

“I never saw those comments, because I’m not really into reading stuff on social media. But I came over to training the other day and the boys were asking me which of Cockers’ sons was going to be sold,” smiles Mata. “I decided to spend two more seasons with Edinburgh because I’m still getting better. The programme suits me really well, the S&C stuff, and I think I can get better in the next two seasons. That’s why I signed.

“I’d like to go to other places after this, but I’m just trying to get better at the moment. Once I’ve done my time in Edinburgh, I can leave to another club, but for now I’m still working on my game, working on my fitness. He [Cockerill] lets me do whatever I do. He picks me in the team and tells me, just do what you do. I enjoy that freedom. And the other forwards work extra hard to let me do my thing.”

We look ahead to Saturday, Edinburgh’s reward for topping their section. Naturally, they don’t see it as an arrival point. “Last season, we lost to them in the [Pro14] playoffs so we have something to get back at them. Our home record has been good, we’re expecting a big crowd, and it’s a game we can win. When I first came over, the club was still struggling. We were trying to get a win every weekend, whereas now the win is always there: it’s just up to us to work hard and get it.”

With that, he’s back to the bike. The cold sweats he’ll leave to Munster.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 4:21 pm

Great to hear that Mata is enjoying his time. £350k a year is a healthy wage and he sounds like he is settled in Edinburgh. Two more years and he might decide it is easier to stay in Scotland than take his family to France!

I noted in the other thread, Davidson was excellent for Newcastle on Saturday. The lock stocks in Scotland are looking phenomenal. R Gray is starting at 8pm tonight for Toulouse to add to the pile.

Now all we need are some decent looseheads...

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Post by RDW on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 5:23 pm

Scott Johnson - the Scottish public have never warmed to him due to his awful reign as head coach (a job he never asked for) bit also the rumours of his treatment of John Barclay and Kelly Brown.

There's no doubting he's been an excellent DoR though and is largely responsible for the players and coaches that have come to Scotland since.

On Mata - that S&C coach needs a raise and a bonus given Mata credits him as one of the reasons he's staying. He'll be one of the top earners at Edinburgh now but still way off what French clubs would have offered him - it's good to know we have other things we can offer to get players to stay.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 6:11 pm

I think for the Fijian players coming over, the attraction of having other members of their community around is a massive draw. Add that to the history of Fijian players actually doing very well with the Scottish sides, they know they will be looked after well.

Not every club would have taken the care of Mata that he got at Edinburgh, or that Niko got when he first arrived at Glasgow. Most clubs would want instant bang for their buck, which would be quite fanciful in Mata's case as he had hardly played any 15s!

Hopefully this means that word will get around and others will come to join those that have gone before.

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Post by RDW on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 7:26 pm

Edinburgh are announcing '5 signings' tomorrow. New signings?

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Post by Eejit on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 7:43 pm

RDW wrote:Edinburgh are announcing '5 signings' tomorrow. New signings?

Knowing the SRU It’ll be:

Mako Vunipola
Billy Vunipola
Finn Russell
Aaron Smith
Tadgh Furlong

Meanwhile Glasgow will get a new dinner lady. And you’ll still be Scotland’s second team, despite the Blazer’s ambitions.

Good vs evil

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Post by RDW on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 7:48 pm

Get that salt and vinegar covered chip off your shoulders eejit!

The SRU publicly admitted they focussed on Glasgow for a few years to the expense of Edinburgh - it's hard to forget some of the truly awful journeymen we were stuck with for years.

Let's just wait until the new season starts and all signings have been announced before having a whine...

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Post by Eejit on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 7:50 pm

Sorry but that doesn’t fit in with my worldview so take your salt and sauce and shelve it because it’s a disgrace to condiments.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:06 pm

If it is going to be a block of 5, then it is very likely to be re-signings

Any new marque signing would be worthy of sole billing

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Post by EWT Spoons on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:24 pm

I'd guess the two Fijian lads who are due and three re-signings

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Post by Eejit on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:27 pm

Assume re-signings for Graham and Watson. Dell too maybe?

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:27 pm

Dinner Lady??? I thought Ratu Tagive was sent to Gregg's with a list and told to make sure he got the right change.

Why else is he there?

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:29 pm

I’ve been hearing stirrings about the SRU looking to invest in a franchise in the states.

anyone heard the same rumblings?
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Post by jimbopip on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:40 pm

Yes. They're to be called the San Diego Misfits and be managed by a Mr Eddie Clocherty. Shocked

You're welcome GC.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:48 pm

Yeah Tattie there was something about it on Reddit about us investing in Old Glory which is coincidentally a new nickname for Jimbo.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 8:55 pm

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland/scottish-rugby-bids-for-stake-in-us-pro-franchise-old-glory-dc-1-4894747

It is an article by Iain Morrison, so unsurprisingly is more than a little bit one eyed. I guess we need to wait to hear more details before casting any reasonable judgement.

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Post by RDW on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 9:22 pm

Eejit wrote:Assume re-signings for Graham and Watson. Dell too maybe?
Dell's off to London Irish.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 24 Mar 2019, 10:09 pm

RDW wrote:
Eejit wrote:Assume re-signings for Graham and Watson. Dell too maybe?
Dell's off to London Irish.
So he is. Forgot about that

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:05 am

BigGee wrote:https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/scotland/scottish-rugby-bids-for-stake-in-us-pro-franchise-old-glory-dc-1-4894747

It is an article by Iain Morrison, so unsurprisingly is more than a little bit one eyed. I guess we need to wait to hear more details before casting any reasonable judgement.
Well, Melbourne Rebels turned out like a scheize show. Why would we possibly be worried about this...
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:10 am

Melbourne Rebels?

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:51 am


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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 8:51 am


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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:01 am

Not the most inspiring of opening signings from Edinburgh Bristol back row Nick Haining....

yep I've got no idea too.

6ft 4 and 115kg so a big lad. 16 Bristol appearances. 28 years old.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:09 am

We have to be losing a BR then, if not we're massively overstocked.

Hamilton was only a 1 year deal so maybe he's off

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:12 am

Yeah' it's probably fair to say Hamilton's off. Nayolo too who has barely played.

Cockers is definitely loading up the squad to cope during international breaks given how bad we've been in the international wnidows this season - it's been the difference between fighting for our lives for Champions Cup rugby and comfortably qualifying for a home playoff.

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Post by EST on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:31 am

RDW wrote:Yeah' it's probably fair to say Hamilton's off. Nayolo too who has barely played.

Cockers is definitely loading up the squad to cope during international breaks given how bad we've been in the international wnidows this season - it's been the difference between fighting for our lives for Champions Cup rugby and comfortably qualifying for a home playoff.

The drop off between the A and B teams has been huge this season - and could have really have scuppered the progress of last season. To be honest, i've been surprised at how poor some of the performances from the 'B' team have been - yes the squad has been stretched, but there have been some real collapses that are unacceptable at this level.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:39 am

He's a SQ 8/6 who's keen on international selection. According to cockers

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Post by EST on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 10:51 am

Seems to be a bit of a like for like with Naylo - has even featured once this season?


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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:01 am

Southern Kings hooker Michael Willemse also signed as was rumoured recently - he's a decent signing. He's one of their best players (not difficult I know but he is decent!).

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:03 am

EST wrote:Seems to be a bit of a like for like with Naylo - has even featured once this season?


A few times off the bench - he's scored a try too. Nothing special and was very much squad filler.

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Post by EST on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:12 am

RDW wrote:Southern Kings hooker Michael Willemse also signed as was rumoured recently - he's a decent signing. He's one of their best players (not difficult I know but he is decent!).

Now that is a good signing - direct replacement for Ford I imagine, brilliant depth at hooker now.

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:23 am

EWT Spoons wrote:He's a SQ 8/6 who's keen on international selection. According to cockers

If he's SQ then all the better!

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:31 am

It's all been new signings so far so may be 5 new players!

Eejit is going to explode.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:33 am

RDW wrote:Melbourne Rebels?
A new franchise in a sport that's not the most popular in town. Parallels with Washington Trumpies (or whatever their name is).
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