Edinburgh and Glasgow – Continuing patter version 22 (it used to be a squad size)

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 12 Mar 2019, 10:56 am

First topic message reminder :

With the woes and injuries in the international camp just depressing us, lets look back to the club game.

Possible areas of discussion:
Edinburgh continue to hold the 1872 trophy
Edinburgh are getting a new ground
Edinburgh have a home Euro Champs cup game to look forward to
Edinburgh have a league fixture against the perpetual point givers, Glasgow, to look forward to
BigGee’s proposed Scotland XV for England has 8 Edinburgh players, 4 exiles and 3 Glasgow players so even the International team is starting to look representative of where rugby in Scotland truly exists.
It’s not all bad for Glasgow though as they sit above Munster in the Pro 14 and have Stafford McDowell on their books
Edinburgh have Hamish Watson though
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:38 am

Ah I see. To be fair the Rebels have managed to generally hold their own, and professional rugby in Aus is well established (even if it's 4th or 5th choice sport at best).

i agree that professional rugby in USA is a completely alien concept to 99.99% of Americans so represents a risk - there is huge potential though given the population bases and the types of athletes that get produced in 'merica.

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Post by cakeordeath on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:42 am

Eejit wrote:Yeah Tattie there was something about it on Reddit about us investing in Old Glory Hole which is coincidentally a new nickname for Jimbo.

Fixed that for you!

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Post by Eejit on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:45 am

Yep looks like World Cup cover combined with Cockers putting his own stamp on the club. Suspect there may be a bit of a clear out at some stage. I assume Glasgow are working on this kind of stuff too but us under Rennie seem to operate on some sort of code of omertà or something.

Important to note that (i think) there’s a limit of 10 foreign players per club in MLR and Runs from January to June at the moment so being able to send off fringe players in the second half of the season might work out quite well for us.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 11:54 am

cakeordeath wrote:
Eejit wrote:Yeah Tattie there was something about it on Reddit about us investing in Old Glory Hole which is coincidentally a new nickname for Jimbo.

Fixed that for you!
Laugh
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 12:09 pm

Fijian winger Eroni 'sledghammer' Sau signs from Perpignan!

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:10 pm

Fiji 7s captain Kalione Nasoko another signing - winger/centre.

Doesn't look good for Hoyland, Brown and Fife!

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Post by bsando on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:18 pm

Cockers wasn’t lying about recruiting a heap of Fijians! Interesting signings.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:21 pm

Edinburgh do realise that you need more than backrowers and wingers in the team?


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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:22 pm

I wonder if that played a part in Mata staying - if you stay we'll bring a load of your mates over!

These are good signing as they are experienced, exciting players who also won't be breaking the bank. We've probably signed all 5 players for cheaper than what Mata is now on.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:26 pm

They still do really need a SH though, you can have the best wingers in the world who won't be worth a bucket of cold p#ss if they never get the ball!

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:26 pm

If Glasgow are losing Masaga and Tagive, maybe there is space for a Hoyland? Otherwise, Hoyland and Fife will be making their way to the sevens.

None of the players picked up so far will have cost much, I just wish that Edinburgh had put in a competitive bid for Vellacott. There needs to be a proper second option to Pyrgos and they are not in the present squad. Maybe the last signing is that NZer, Finlay something?

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Post by bsando on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:26 pm

Who is te 5th signing?

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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:27 pm

They may hang onto Fife, not much else in the way of FB cover currently and Kinghorn likley to be away with Scotland a fair bit

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:31 pm

Beware the highlights reel, and espeically beware a 7s highlights reel, but these boys can shift! Offloads all over the place too - I look forward to Cockers trying to explain the concept of a ruck to these guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgItFqqwWgU



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTxTBp8wpiA



Last edited by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:33 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:If Glasgow are losing Masaga and Tagive, maybe there is space for a Hoyland? Otherwise, Hoyland and Fife will be making their way to the sevens.

None of the players picked up so far will have cost much, I just wish that Edinburgh had put in a competitive bid for Vellacott. There needs to be a proper second option to Pyrgos and they are not in the present squad. Maybe the last signing is that NZer, Finlay something?

Those two have been disappointing signings - promised so much but didn't deliever.

Finlay Christie is the kiwi 9 - only 23 and SQ so would be a good shout.

Ben Vellacot has signed for Wasps.

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:49 pm

So Cockers is basically assesmbling a top 14 team - brutal forwards pack and some crazy Fijians out wide.

Assuming we're not going to lose any key players and it will just be squad filler going (Marfo, Ford, Hamilton, Nayola, Kennedy, Hoyland, Brown) these signings make sense - our back row is going to be raided by Scotland and we have been lacking class on the wings.

Throw 2nd row Murray Douglas into the mix and we should have a decent squad during the world cup and 6N.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 1:59 pm

Seems to me that Edinburgh have got to many good back row players, a lot of whom should be starters and not squad players and they won't get enough game time with Edinburgh.

Watson (assuming he re-signs), Mata, Barclay, Bradbury, Ritchie, Crosbie. Hamilton is no bad option eihter and you have Miller, the new guy from Bristol, The other Fijian guy as well as some good young prospects from the academy like Darge and Boyle.

I get that quite a few of them will be going to japan, but it will get very crowded when they get back.

Do we think that any of them might be heading West? Glasgow are not nearly so well stocked in that department. The squads could do with some balancing out, as happend regarding HP last year.

I get the the

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 2:00 pm

Hamish Watson signs on for 2 more years! From his interview at least it sounds like he wasn't planning on going anywhere, and suggests he won't be in the future.

A lot can change in 2 years though - he may be the Lions test 7 and have his price tag really go up!


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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 2:06 pm

BigGee wrote:Seems to me that Edinburgh have got to many good back row players, a lot of whom should be starters and not squad players and they won't get enough game time with Edinburgh.

Watson (assuming he re-signs), Mata, Barclay, Bradbury, Ritchie, Crosbie. Hamilton is no bad option eihter and you have Miller, the new guy from Bristol, The other Fijian guy as well as some good young prospects from the academy like Darge and Boyle.

I get that quite a few of them will be going to japan, but it will get very crowded when they get back.

Do we think that any of them might be heading West? Glasgow are not nearly so well stocked in that department. The squads could do with some balancing out, as happend regarding HP last year.

I get the the

Problem is all of the players with strikethrows are probably going to be at the world cup and 6N (one of the Scottish lads might not make it, but would probably be first injury call up), and I can't imagine Hamilton will be staying.

Hamilton would be a good fit at Glasgow - he's not the big ball carrying machine that Glagsow need but he's an absolute workhorse.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 2:18 pm

Hats of to Edinburgh’s PR brigade for a change. Three times the news on the radio have covered these signings. In a week after the football team have played that’s good going. We barely used to even get s mention of results in the news so signing news is a massive improvement in the population hearing about our rugby team.

#luvvies
#whataboutglasgow
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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:02 pm

RDW wrote:
BigGee wrote:Seems to me that Edinburgh have got to many good back row players, a lot of whom should be starters and not squad players and they won't get enough game time with Edinburgh.

Watson (assuming he re-signs), Mata, Barclay, Bradbury, Ritchie, Crosbie. Hamilton is no bad option eihter and you have Miller, the new guy from Bristol, The other Fijian guy as well as some good young prospects from the academy like Darge and Boyle.

I get that quite a few of them will be going to japan, but it will get very crowded when they get back.

Do we think that any of them might be heading West? Glasgow are not nearly so well stocked in that department. The squads could do with some balancing out, as happend regarding HP last year.

I get the the

Problem is all of the players with strikethrows are probably going to be at the world cup and 6N (one of the Scottish lads might not make it, but would probably be first injury call up), and I can't imagine Hamilton will be staying.

Hamilton would be a good fit at Glasgow - he's not the big ball carrying machine that Glagsow need but he's an absolute workhorse.

I was thinking more about when they come back from the WC, they will be tripping over each other then.

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:05 pm

They will, but you also need players to play during the world cup period so we don't have much choice but to bring in cover - that's the downside of so many Scotland players in one position being at one club. It's why Glasgow have traditionally always had loads of good back 3 players when Edinburgh's choices were pretty rank average - they've got the Scotland back 3 plus players to cover for them.

The sensible thing would be to send Bradbury to Glasgow, but hands off!

Interesting that all the deals are 2 years so he's looking longer term here - they're not short term signings.

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Post by EST on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:17 pm

RDW wrote:They will, but you also need players to play during the world cup period so we don't have much choice but to bring in cover - that's the downside of so many Scotland players in one position being at one club. It's why Glasgow have traditionally always had loads of good back 3 players when Edinburgh's choices were pretty rank average - they've got the Scotland back 3 plus players to cover for them.

The sensible thing would be to send Bradbury to Glasgow, but hands off!

Interesting that all the deals are 2 years so he's looking longer term here - they're not short term signings.

I doubt that Cockers will give up Bradbury without a fight, but I wonder if somebody like Crosbie could be persuaded to make the move across? He is maybe not as big as Bradbury, but he is a hard and abrasive carrier who is yet to totally fill out - he could well look at the options at both clubs and fancy his chances across the M8.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:25 pm

Bradbury needs time as a No.8 from a Scotland perspective, he is not going to get that at Edinburgh with Matta around.

It is definitely something to think about

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:39 pm

Its a crying shame for Edinburgh but after the world cup, Bradbury could well be moved to Glasgow.

I see the edinburgh backrow being:

6. Barclay
8. Mata
7. Watson

Sub - Ritchie covering 6 and 7 with Barclay moving to 8 if Mata comes off and Ritchie comes on.

Alternativly you would have Bradbury covering 6 and 8 with Barclay moving to 7 if Hamish comes off.

In order to get proper amounts of game time, either Bradbury or Ritchie will need to ove along to the powderpuff glagsow pack. With Captain Gibbons at 7, it would make sense for Bradbury to be the one that goes over.

I think it would therefore be completely acceptable for a player exchange with Bradbury and Geroge Horne. We'll even give you Fowles.
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:43 pm

Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

To be fair in a world where Cockers actually rotates players he should get gametime at 8 - him and Mata are the only natural 8s at the club pretty much so there should be plenty gametime for both of them across a season. God forbid Mata ever gets injured, but if he does Bradbury may see a lot of gametime there.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:47 pm

RDW wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

To be fair in a world where Cockers actually rotates players he should get gametime at 8 - him and Mata are the only natural 8s at the club pretty much so there should be plenty gametime for both of them across a season. God forbid Mata ever gets injured, but if he does Bradbury may see a lot of gametime there.

come on

Bradbury and Fowles for Geroge Horne!!!

What if they throw in Bob Harley or the laddie Smith? Or mini Fagerson?
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 3:48 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW wrote:Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!

To be fair in a world where Cockers actually rotates players he should get gametime at 8 - him and Mata are the only natural 8s at the club pretty much so there should be plenty gametime for both of them across a season. God forbid Mata ever gets injured, but if he does Bradbury may see a lot of gametime there.

come on

Bradbury and Fowles for Geroge Horne!!!

What if they throw in Bob Harley or the laddie Smith? Or mini Fagerson?

Then they'll become our reserve reserve options!

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 4:03 pm

RDW wrote:
tigertattie wrote:

come on

Bradbury and Fowles for Geroge Horne!!!

What if they throw in Bob Harley or the laddie Smith? Or mini Fagerson?

Then they'll become our reserve reserve options!

True, but we can always put them to work behind the bar at our new Minifield stadium

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 4:04 pm

Bob Harley on the door.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 4:06 pm

What I found interesting was when Mata went off against Leinster, Barclay moved to 8 and Bradbury stayed at 6. Seemed like a missed opportunity, but does suggest Cockers doesn’t see Bradbury as an 8.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 5:42 pm

Hopefully the sledgehammer proves more useful than the chainsaw....

Very pleased with these, but do think the squad balance is slightly wonky. Happy to ship Hamilton and Crosbie to the Warriors if needs be (after the World Cup).

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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 5:52 pm

Other than the fact that we're very short of back rows during the WC, the Bristol guy would have been a good signing for Glasgow.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 6:11 pm

Apparently he’s quite handy.

Given who he’s up against for places, you’ve got to wonder why he’s chosen to come to Edinburgh.

Glasgow need complete wholesale changes in the back row next season. Wonder if they’ve got anyone lined up. They could also do with an alternative to tiny time at second row.
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Post by Eejit on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 7:29 pm

tigertattie wrote:Apparently he’s quite handy.

Given who he’s up against for places, you’ve got to wonder why he’s chosen to come to Edinburgh.

Glasgow need complete wholesale changes in the back row next season. Wonder if they’ve got anyone lined up. They could also do with an alternative to tiny time at second row.

Wouldn’t say we need wholesale changes, but we certainly need some strengthening in that position.

At the moment we have
Arthur
Batman
Cully
BBB
Fozzy
Fagerson the Younger
Dr Who
The fat American
Bruce
Plus Lewis Wynne and Thomas Gordon.

We could use a big 8 but we’re developing our own depth in a way you perfumed ones could only dream of.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 7:30 pm

Just seen the highlights of the prem again and Hutchinson on fire once again. Seething break with ball in both hands, looking for support and then passes for the try. Then he launches a Finn-esque pass out wide leading to the next try.

Toonie surely has to call him up into the national squad for that wee worm Eddie Jones does!!!
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Post by RDW on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:22 pm

He really was superb.

I'm trying to remember if the warm-up games are capped or not. If not then unless we take him to to world cup he'll have to wait until the 6N!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 25 Mar 2019, 9:42 pm

I watched those as well, and Hutchinson really does look the business.

Join the Edinburgh revolution young man!!

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Post by bsando on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 9:27 am

Going to be a lot of competition in the centres pre world cup as players return from injury and new guys like Steyn and Hutchinson emerge. All the better for Scotland!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 10:33 am

RDW wrote:He really was superb.

I'm trying to remember if the warm-up games are capped or not. If not then unless we take him to to world cup he'll have to wait until the 6N!

I'm sure they are classed as full capped internationals even though they are warm up games. For all intense purposes they are just the same as the international friendlies in the autumn.

I’d sure as hell have him come off the bench at least in one of the games against Georgia. He’s making that many waves down south that he’s surely in the thoughts of the England elite squad selectors. Jones may not be looking at him just now but after the world cup, whoever is in charge at England will surely be wanting to have a look at the boy.

I’m not just saying this to tie the boy into Scotland, I genuinely feel he’s a fully-fledged option at 13 and if he hadn’t been injured around the time of the AIs he may well have been in the reckoning for Scotland. He sure as hell would have been a better option at 13 than wee Nick!
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Post by EST on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 10:34 am

Steyn has been very impressive for Glasgow, he hasn't really put a foot wrong in the matches so far - runs great angles and is very powerful.

It will be interesting to see how he gets on if selected against Sarries.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 10:40 am

Sure, Steyn has a future but he's new to Glasgow and hasn't exactly been tested to a high level.

Hutchinson has been playing great week in and week out for Saints against players like Manu, T'eo, Jamie Roberts......

He's out of the shop window a bit being dan saff, but, and I absolutely hate this overly used phrase, but I'm gonna use it, Hutchinson is the next cab off the rank at 13
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Post by jimbopip on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 11:04 am

I bet Toonie wakes up giggling to himself at the thought of Lord Stafford-Monica as a centre pairing.

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Post by EST on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 11:10 am

tigertattie wrote:Sure, Steyn has a future but he's new to Glasgow and hasn't exactly been tested to a high level.

Hutchinson has been playing great week in and week out for Saints against players like Manu, T'eo, Jamie Roberts......

He's out of the shop window a bit being dan saff, but, and I absolutely hate this overly used phrase, but I'm gonna use it, Hutchinson is the next cab off the rank at 13

Yeah, I wasn't discounting Hutchinson. He has definitely been playing very well, I would have him above the human flubber that is Nick Grigg, JJ and Bennett (until he can show how the injuries have affected him) in the pecking order - he could well make a play for the starting 13 spot, depending on how Jones returns from injury. I remember watching him quite a bit at jnr level - he was always steady, but never really looked like anything more than that - very happy he is performing so well....now to get him tied to Scotland somehow.

As for Steyn, I don't think anybody expected him to be so good - he has fitted in seamlessly. I think he has an advantage over quite a few of the other options, in that he adds a physical dimension to our attach - something we are missing without Dunbar/Taylor/Scott in the backline. This game against Sarries will be a good benchmark to see where he is at against better opposition.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 11:38 am

I am pretty sure the first two warm up games will involve the greater squad and then they will trim it down to the players actually going to japan for the last two games against Georgia. The reason they are playing the home game on a friday night is that they are flying off on the sunday or the monday.

If Hutchinson or any other bolter is going to get a chance to show his waresl, it will have to be in one of the games against France, these are the games for the experimentation.

I have watched him play a fair bit this season and he has always been good. He just needed to start getting a run in the team to show it and he did and is now a nailed on starter.

Steyn is playing well as well though and expect him to be running out against Sarries this weekend. He offers a wing/centre combo as well and versatility will also be an attractive option in such a small squad.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 4:29 pm

https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/1110560331456233474

It does sound like Rory hutchinson wants to play for Scotland. He is on Jim hamilton's podcast tonight and tells him that Toonie has been in touch.

Sounds like a good bit of business to me.

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Post by RDW on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 10:24 am

Edinburgh have a new MD - a lawyer who already works for the SRU...


Edinburgh Rugby can confirm Douglas Struth as the club’s new Managing Director.

Struth, who is currently Scottish Rugby’s Head of Legal, has significant international and commercial business experience and successfully applied through an open, external and internal, recruitment process.

Scottish Rugby’s Head of Retail and Licensing, Craig Docherty, has been in interim charge during the recruitment period and will continue in the role until Struth comes into post at the end of the season.

Doug Struth said: “It is a real privilege for me to be appointed as Managing Director of Edinburgh Rugby. As a long-time Season Ticket Member I care passionately about the club and have done for many years.

“Through my current role, I have developed first-hand knowledge of the club and a real understanding of what its objectives are and what it wants to progress from a business, stakeholder and operations perspective.

“I now look forward to applying all of that as Managing Director and working with our supporters, partners and the whole team at Edinburgh Rugby to build on what has been achieved so far and to take the club forward. I cannot wait to get started.”

Scottish Rugby’s Chief Operating Officer, Dominic McKay, said: “We wanted someone who understood the important role of the club in the city and how, working with Scottish Rugby, we could continue building on the proactive work currently underway.

“Having worked closely with Doug, I know he is passionate about rugby in Edinburgh and it is a positive step to have someone develop within the organisation to the extent that this role is now one they are well equipped to step into.

“Edinburgh Rugby is at an exciting point in its history, reaching the Heineken Champions Cup Quarter-Finals and progressing well off the field. There is a good, dynamic team in place and I’d like to thank Craig Docherty for managing the club so well over recent months.

"I’m confident Doug will continue this progression of the club in the Managing Director role.”

Originally from Edinburgh, Struth trained as lawyer with Maclay, Murray & Spens (now Dentons) in the city and built up a strong commercial legal background over a six-year period with Royal Bank of Scotland (both in Edinburgh and through a three-year role with the bank’s international legal team based in Jersey).

He then spent a further three years as a Senior Lawyer at Virgin Money, working on a range of high-profile strategic projects and acquisitions, before joining Scottish Rugby in 2014 and progressing to Head of Legal.

In his current role, Struth leads Scottish Rugby’s internal legal department and is Secretary to the Scottish Rugby Council. He has worked across all areas of the organisation, including working with Edinburgh Rugby on sponsorship, player contracting, ticketing, broadcast, retail, media and marketing matters. He has also been involved in supporting the delivery of Edinburgh Rugby’s new stadium development project.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 11:18 am

BigGee wrote:https://twitter.com/jamiekborthwick/status/1110560331456233474

It does sound like Rory hutchinson wants to play for Scotland. He is on Jim hamilton's podcast tonight and tells him that Toonie has been in touch.

Sounds like a good bit of business to me.

Great to see. Loving the twitter person who lists better centres including Horne and Grigg. Clearly a Glasgow fan who can't see beyond the pop up bar in the stand at Scotstoun!
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Post by BigGee on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 2:56 pm

Chris Fusaro signs on for the Warriors for another couple of years.

He looked like he was struggling to keep up last year, but now he has put his injuries behind him, he is back putting in a really good shift. A great squad player to keep and will be very useful next year with a lot of the big names away.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 5:41 pm

Wow. A bit of a read and doesn’t paint a nice picture

https://theoffsideline.com/long-read-sgm-sru-governance/

Bradbury sounds like a character. Rushed things through as she wanted to see the Leinster game. Maybe next time have the meeting on a night when yer free eh?
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