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Post by RDW on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am


Last edited by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW on Wed 17 Apr 2019, 5:05 pm

tattie was saying the world cup rules are you need 6 props - I'm saying that's not the case.

I think we'll take 6 props - we got away with it in 2015 because Welsh could cover both. None of our propping options can do that this time round.

It is a bit of a wasted squad selection - we'd be much better off with another back 5 forward or centre/wing player, but it's a big risk to take only having 2 LH or TH.

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Post by reallybored on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 1:49 pm

Surely one of our THs could do a job at LH if they really had to, I was always under the impression that TH was the harder position to play.

If Jonny Gray can carry his current form into the RWC we will look a different prospect up front, especially if his brother is fit.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 20 Apr 2019, 2:42 pm

reallybored wrote:Surely one of our THs could do a job at LH if they really had to, I was always under the impression that TH was the harder position to play.

If Jonny Gray can carry his current form into the RWC we will look a different prospect up front, especially if his brother is fit.

I guess there is a bit of a difference between doing a job and being able to perform adequately at international level.

Imagine the scenario when one of our LHs pulls a muscle in the warm up against Ireland and then the second one gets injured 10 mins into the game. The stand in then has to do 70 mins against Furlong and gets eaten alive, gives away 5 scrum penalties, a penalty try and gets a yellow card!

It is way to risky and there is far to much to lose. We are going to have to take 6 props.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 21 Apr 2019, 6:45 pm

Murray McCallum can play both sides, probably too soon for him though. Think we'll take Nel, Berghan and Fagerson for TH, and Dell and Bhatti for LH. The last loosehead slot is interesting. Reid is experienced, but Allan and Sutherland probably better for long term.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 21 Apr 2019, 6:46 pm

Got my Scotland season tickets for next year. We're doomed....

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Post by bsando on Sun 21 Apr 2019, 9:30 pm

Scotland’s lions chances look doomed for 2021 as Gatland is in line to coach them again according to various media sources. So long away though so anything could change and Scotland could even win a 6 nations in that time. Still, im a bit disappointed.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 9:39 am

bsando wrote:Scotland’s lions chances look doomed for 2021 as Gatland is in line to coach them again according to various media sources. So long away though so anything could change and Scotland could even win a 6 nations in that time. Still, im a bit disappointed.

Gatland is a proven coach so it makes sense for him to get the gig.

For the lions ethos and what the lions stand for though, it's farcical to give him the role for a third time. It will be interesting to see how many Welsh players go next time as I can see the Welsh team nose-diving down the rankings after the world cup and Gatland his said on record that he picks players from winning teams (Which is why so few scots went last time)
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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 3:00 pm

tigertattie wrote:
bsando wrote:Scotland’s lions chances look doomed for 2021 as Gatland is in line to coach them again according to various media sources. So long away though so anything could change and Scotland could even win a 6 nations in that time. Still, im a bit disappointed.

Gatland is a proven coach so it makes sense for him to get the gig.

For the lions ethos and what the lions stand for though, it's farcical to give him the role for a third time. It will be interesting to see how many Welsh players go next time as I can see the Welsh team nose-diving down the rankings after the world cup and Gatland his said on record that he picks players from winning teams (Which is why so few scots went last time)

Get BVC in. He'd do a great job and some of our guys might actually travel for once OK
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 3:56 pm

BVC would be great for the lions but I'm not sure if it would be great for BVC.

It's different if you are employed by a home union or even a lub within the home union, to take a sebatical and then wander back into your old role (just like Gats has done), but I'd doubt Montpellier would say "Aye Vern, off you go for a jolly for a year and half, don't worry about us, we'll get someone else in while you are gone, and don't worry, your job will be waiting for you when you are ready to come back"
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 5:19 pm

If we want Gatland to pick our players we'll actually need to start winning games away from home and, in particular, in Cardiff.

He's absolutely the right choice for the Lions.

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Post by TJ on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 8:31 am

Gatland being picked means the end of the "british lions" disgraceful how he overlooked Scots in great form for injured or out of form Welsh last time.

Its about time it was renamed " England welsh and Irish"

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Post by bsando on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 9:52 am

It certainly would help to start winning games away from home, although I think the Twickenham draw showed just how good some of Scotland’s players can be with momentum on their side.

As a Gatland coached side always has a strong defensive structure I’d hope Scotland can begin to stop leaking so many points in the lead up to the 2021 tour. That has been a common theme for Scotland in the 6N. Despite winning all home games in 2017 and 2018 there were 122 and 128 points conceded in each respective year. In 2019 we conceded 125 points. So for the past 3 consecutive tournaments we have been second highest in terms of points conceded.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 9:57 am

The problem is that Scotland will never play the way the Gatland wants a team to play and I am sure that will count against our players again when push comes to shove.

He has had a good run, but I would be happy for a different coach and a different approach. I used to love the Lions as well, but I don't get nearly as excited about them as I used to since he has been in charge.

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Post by RDW on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 10:05 am

The unfortunate reality is we're the worst of the home nations just now, and the other 3 nations are currently 3 of the best teams in the world. Obviously a lot can change in the next 2 years but if the team was picked this summer we'd be faced with a small number on tour again, and probably deservedly so.

Of the current crop probably only McInally, Nel, Watson and Hogg would have a good chance of going, and even then they face stiff competition. Jonny Gray will always be in the mix but he was overlooked before and could feasibly happen again. A fit and on form Huw Jones would definitely be in the mix but that isn't a guarantee just now.

Then there's Finn Russell of course, who is about as far away from a Gatland 10 as is humanly possible so can't imagine he would tour!

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Post by bsando on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 10:58 am

I saw on Rugby Pass that Gatland has been appointed in principal and that after he takes Wales to the RWC he'll be taking a half year off. Then his Lions prep would begin, post 2020 6N. So the 2020 6N and 2021 6N are big ones for Scotland in terms of the Lions. It is also important Glasgow and Edinburgh compete at a high standard, making the Champions Cup and Pro14 playoffs.

As it stands, if we were debating Lions team for this year RDW is probably right. McInally and Hogg would surely be shoe in's then there's a lot of competition for the other positions. Hogg with 2 tours and high praise from the coaches has a lot of Gatland credit in the bank to compliment his form.

Results and defensive improvement are the only way I could see more than 2 players getting selected fo the tour in 2021 with Gatland as head coach. Although, a Scottish coach in the Lions coaching setup would probably increase those numbers a little bit if results were to remain as they are now.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 10:47 pm

Apparently Blade Thompson making his comeback for Scarlets this weekend. He may still end up getting a couple of games in before the end of the season if they make the 7th play off spot for the Euro cup.

Could he still be a bolter for the WC squad?

Toonie clearly liked the cut of his jib.

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Post by RDW on Tue 23 Apr 2019, 10:49 pm

That is good news - never mind the world cup it's just great to see him playing again.

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Post by TJ on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:13 am

Anyone else feeling vaguely optimistic for the WC?

Most of the injured players will be back and their absence has allowed others to gain experience. We have alternatives in most positions who will not drop quality much. Beause these guys were injured they should also be freshish for the WC

Key players are playing well

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:28 am

You should feel optimistic. I also think that if Scotland get out of their group and they should they could pull off one of the biggest shocks in RWC history and beat the ABs or SA. Scotland came very close v NZ in their last game and have won v SA in the past.

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Post by RDW on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 1:16 pm

Whilst it is positive we're getting players back (that situation can change quickly remember) I am worried about form Truthfully we havent played well since 2018 6N, and even then our performances were massively inconsistent. This season has been dominated by one word - underwhelming.

Form of course can quickly re-find itself, but if we keep putting out performances like this season I fear we won't get out our group.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 10:44 am

RDW wrote:Whilst it is positive we're getting players back (that situation can change quickly remember) I  am worried about form  Truthfully we havent played well since 2018 6N, and even then our performances were massively inconsistent. This season has been dominated by one word - underwhelming.

Form of course can quickly re-find itself, but if we keep putting out performances like this season I fear we won't get out our group.

Sadly I have to agree. This is toonie's test and it's heavily in his interest to get through it, as I'd imagine he had a part to play in his rapid ascension so he needs to earn his money or get booted out post WC. This season for me confirmed my first fears that many of us shared that VC had been unnecessarily usurped just as Scotland were on the upward curve.

Whether we were down on players or not, the national teams put out this season still underperformed relative to the level the players can play at and have looked like they'd struggle at club level, let alone international.

Big question mark hangs over this WC. We don't make it past group Toonie has to go. If we scrape it to quarters playing shoddily I'd still say Toonie has to go. Second but out in QFs playing some respectable stuff, I could give the benefit of the doubt but with our players we should have better aspirations. The minimum for me for Toonie to stay is for us to top/come close second the group then lose to a better team in QFs or make it to semis. Ireland are beatable. Japan are beatable. Samoa are beatable. We have a pool that we could conceivably win, I doubt we will but we should be challenging for the top spot. If we're not then Toonie has to go, there are better teams out there than the ones in our pool on current form.
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Post by tigertattie on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 11:51 am

WC will be the making or breaking of Toonie.

We all mostly agree that BVC should have kept the job until this WC then Toonie could have taken over.

We can top the group, but Ireland will be a tough task. The annoing thing is if we top the group, we could beat SA and go into the semi final. I fear though that we'll finish 2nd and then go out inthe Q/F to the blackness.

Could you imagine if we beat the blackness in the Q/F. They are not the invicible team they once were (at the moment). The confidence and momentum that would give us. Wowser!

Toonie is either going to be a hero or a zero I think.
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Post by bsando on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 12:30 pm

And now an alternative opinion, personally I thought Scotland’s last 40 mins of rugby was probably the best I’ve ever watched. To respond as they did against England at Twickenham and score some of the best in the tournament during that time is down to Toonie’s game plan. 

I definitely agree that our 6N was disappointing from a defensive perspective. I think that had a lot to do with injuries as well. Bradbury was fresh back for the France game and slipped tackles, the backs didn’t defend very well against Wales and let in two well worked Welsh trys. Had Scotland been better in defence in all 5 games it may well have been a 2nd or 3rd place finish. 

Another problem was consistency and continuity in attack. Some times it was outstanding at other times static and error strewn.

It was a fantastic 6N in terms of World Cup prep though I think. Graham got to show what he can do, Strauss and Bradbury got lots of game time and many others who may not have necessarily have started otherwise. Depth was certainly improved.

Toonie is the man and I doubt he’ll be going anywhere for a good few years. I could see assistant coaches changing first but even if Scotland do bomb out in the RWC group stages I think it would take a wooden spoon 6N in 2020 for Toonie to be sacked.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 12:48 pm

If you were being hyper critical, Scotland played two halves of good rugby, the first and the last. In between they varied from meh to bloomin awful.

Thus the question is how much credit do you give for the good 80 minutes (40 against the worst side and 40 when there was nothing to lose) and how much pessimism do you apply to what came in between?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 1:10 pm

bsando wrote:And now an alternative opinion, personally I thought Scotland’s last 40 mins of rugby was probably the best I’ve ever watched. To respond as they did against England at Twickenham and score some of the best in the tournament during that time is down to Toonie’s game plan. 

I definitely agree that our 6N was disappointing from a defensive perspective. I think that had a lot to do with injuries as well. Bradbury was fresh back for the France game and slipped tackles, the backs didn’t defend very well against Wales and let in two well worked Welsh trys. Had Scotland been better in defence in all 5 games it may well have been a 2nd or 3rd place finish. 

Another problem was consistency and continuity in attack. Some times it was outstanding at other times static and error strewn.

It was a fantastic 6N in terms of World Cup prep though I think. Graham got to show what he can do, Strauss and Bradbury got lots of game time and many others who may not have necessarily have started otherwise. Depth was certainly improved.

Toonie is the man and I doubt he’ll be going anywhere for a good few years. I could see assistant coaches changing first but even if Scotland do bomb out in the RWC group stages I think it would take a wooden spoon 6N in 2020 for Toonie to be sacked.

Sorry but a remarkable half doesn't make up for a piss-poor season. It's very easy to say we're alright it was just injuries, but when you look at the long term trajectory over the last year since summer tour, it's not exactly been a glowing record. We have better depth, yes. Better tactics? Absolutely not. We look like we're trying to play the fastest rugby with the least decision making. Other than against England I've not seen attack that poor since the days of Andy Robinson and Toonie as attack coach.

I hope it doesn't take us to bomb out and a wooden spoon for Toonie to go. Anointed he may be but good coach and strategist (other than personal furtherment within the SRU)... That remains the question.
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Post by BigGee on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 1:18 pm

I think we have nailed our colours to Toonie's mast for better or worse and he will see out a full WC cycle with Scotland now and to be honest, we need to let him.

He has brought a lot of new players into the set up who have great potential but may not peak for a few years yet. He has also got us playing in a way that we all love when it is going well, we just need a bit of consistency to go with the flair.

I am not seeing any other coach out there to be honest that I would rather be at the helm and I certainly don't want Gatland. We stuck with far poorer for longer, so give him a proper chance.

I am not as pessimistic as some on here either about the WC. If our best team holds up then I really do believe we can be competitive.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 1:39 pm

BigGee wrote:I think we have nailed our colours to Toonie's mast for better or worse and he will see out a full WC cycle with Scotland now and to be honest, we need to let him.

He has brought a lot of new players into the set up who have great potential but may not peak for a few years yet. He has also got us playing in a way that we all love when it is going well, we just need a bit of consistency to go with the flair.

I am not seeing any other coach out there to be honest that I would rather be at the helm and I certainly don't want Gatland. We stuck with far poorer for longer, so give him a proper chance.

I am not as pessimistic as some on here either about the WC. If our best team holds up then I really do believe we can be competitive.

Oh I'm not saying don't give him a chance, I'm just saying he needs to sort it out or go!

It would be a shame to backtrack on 4 years of progress because of the wrong coach.
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Post by BigGee on Fri 26 Apr 2019, 2:32 pm

We have not exactly gone backwards with Toonie, just been a bit inconsistent.

We have beaten Oz home and away, taken the All Blacks to the wire, won a Calcutta cup amongst other coups.

Yes in other games we have been off the pace and not produced but we should not forget how poor we have been with other coaches as well. BVC got great credit for a good WC, but we came within a gnats of messing that up as well.

I was there for the pool decider against Samoa, who were not playing well at all and we very nearly messed that up as well and we barely deserved to win it. We would not be looking back so fondly on the VC era if that had been the case.

It can all come down to narrow margins at the end of the day and it is usually the coach who gets the blame.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:26 am

Well if we look at last nights game in terms of a national trial, it is clear that some players have done themsleves a service and other have not.

It is probably fair to say that the Glasgow players stepped up and some on the Edinburgh side now have some doubts over there national selections.

Two who stood out for Glasgow and who have not really been that much in the national picture and would have probably been considered bolters were Matt Fagerson and Scott Cummings, both outplayed their more illustrious opponents and will give Toonie some food for thought.

Zander Fagerson also had a very good game, coming on the back of other good performances against Ulster and Leinster. He was always going to be in the squad, but will be pushing very hard now to be in the match day squad as well. Nel has looked tired for a few weeks now and Berghan has probably been the better TH on the Edinburgh side for the past few games.

Steyn continues to keep Shuggy out of the team and continues to impress. Hard to see Shuggy not being in the larger squad and getting the chance to show what he can do in one of the warm up games, but you would have to say he is no longer a gimme.

It is going to be a tournament to soon for Thomas Gordon, but on that performance yesterday, you would have to say that he is one for the future as well!

On the Edinburgh side, neither of the second rows showed up well yesterday. Both have credit in the bank and will surely make the extended squad, but are no longer shoe ins for the final cut with others coming into form and therefore into the mix.

Bradbury has not done a lot wrong, but has not really had the chance to show his wares either due to Cockers selection policies. John Barclay was also found to be not quite up to match speed yet and in a very competitive part of the team, will have to be fit enough to get in on merit, not on past deeds.

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:59 am

Glasgow players will certainly have a chance to impress with the end of season run in, but there's still a long way to go in terms of world cup selection. The players will have a summer break so momentum will be lost, and ultimately I think it will come down to how they do in pre season and the warm-up games. Edinburgh's season is over so they will have plenty rest by then!

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 4:27 pm

Lots to think about this summer with a few bolters that will fancy going to the World Cup. I think Cummings is in with a shout of being one of them as is Seaman Steyn whose meteoric rise doesn’t seem like slowing down any time soon.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 6:09 pm

Steyn is surely a nose in front of most of our options at 13 and has experience with the current scotland choices at IC so I would not be surprised if he made it, especially as he also covers wing. Shug would come as the specialist 13 but needs to shape up. Hutch sadly may miss out but I can see him in the 6Ns 2020 for sure.

From when I've watched Cummings I've liked the way he plays, i hope for him he gets the chance to prove himself. Whether he'd be a bolter not so sure as we've got riches of choice there, not to mention potential return of a seasoned campaigner in richie gray.

I think toonie already likes M Fagerson and I reckon he'll be in the squad. Bradbury has his work cut out this summer, but nice headache to have. At least it pretty much rules strauss out, who is solid at best.
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:28 pm

I am not sold that if we struggle into a QF with Toonie that he will leave. Have to consider who would replace him. Rennie seems like a guy who can't commit to a 4 year contract based on family and Cockerill would be Andy Robinson mark two at this point. Cotter is not coming back through the door now and Dan McFarland is probably too raw (and annoyed about the circumstances of his departure). Our schedule is not great with a game vs Russia on the 9th prior to going up against Japan on the 13th in what may be the second place decider. A win against Ireland is a must if we want to take the pressure off.

It is hard to make a decision on some of the Edinburgh players after the last two results and the general stunting of their game plan over the last few months. Guys like McInally, Nel, Gilchrist, Toolis, Watson, Pyrgos and Graham have played far more than their share whereas Dell, Berghan, McCallum, Bradbury and Scott have not seen much time.

Looking at it, I think a lock - BS (Skinner, Harley) may be skipped out on due to having flankers like Barclay and Ritchie that can play both sides as well as 6/8's like Thomson and Bradbury. Hastings playing 15 is great but Maitland and Kinghorn will both go as wings/FBs and Hogg is the starter. On the other hand we have injury prone centres so P Horne may get the nod.

Centres to me is going to be brutal. S Johnson is the form 12 but can't play elsewhere. H Jones covers wing but is really a 13 only. Beyond them, do you take an injury ravaged Dunbar or Taylor? M Scott after getting his fitness back? An inexperienced McDowall who may be able to play a bit of 13? A specialist OC in Grigg? Chris Dean maybe?

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:19 pm

Well, last night threw up one unpalatable truth; Tigertattie will be playing at 9 in Japan this summer before Henners does. Firstly, he (Henners) can't play the high tempo which Toonie requires. Secondly he (Henners, not TT) missed/fluffed tackles for two of Glasgow's tries. It'll be Aldi, Wee George and the Ponderous One (for leadership and talking to Finn at half-time).


Hazel, Sam Sam the Stepping Man, Seaman and Not A Pony will all be on the plane. Most likely Furra Linee too.
Dunbar, Taylor MattScott12 will only be involved if they get the gig summarising at half time on BBC. Chris Dean wil play 12 in the World Cup if, and only if, it's outside the halfback pairing of Tigertattie and Flounder.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:29 pm

Aye but who is the fourth scrum half then? Vellacott, Steele or Shiel?

I don't think Steyn is a guarantee at all. He has had 3 months playing 15s at a high level this season. Dean, Grigg and McDowall have had similar stretches this season. Forgot about Toonie liking Harris as well and Hutchinson looking excellent. The form centres (Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowall) have no caps so that is going to be a key contest in August.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:20 pm

I think you can rule McDowell out of this WC barring a lot of injuries.

Probably 4th in line after Johnson, Taylor (if fit) and Horne

Hutch plays onside and outside centre as well and has also experimented with a Russell/Hastings 10/12 combo as well

His time will come, but probably not for this WC

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:25 pm

I've said it before, but I think we're getting a bit carried away with some of the players being mentioned who have no or next to no international experience being put forwards as our great hope. There's a good chance a couple may force their way in but he'd be taking a huge risk by picking all of them.

***Important point for the great unwashed*** - while making the following points I am in no way saying Edinburgh's options are better, just that we need to manage expectations a little:

Cummings - has been decent the last few games but pretty average for most of the season. 0 caps. Will likely only be involved if we lose 2 or 3 locks

Fagerson - first cap against USA he was awful. Second cap he went off after 20 minutes. He's just about proving that he's not too small for club rugby but is completely unproven as an international.

Steyn - he looks a real prospect but 3 months ago no one knew who he was. Luckily for him no one else is showing much competition just now!

I just think it's far too early to be making claims about who will be in the squad - it will come down to how they do in pre-season and the warm-up games. If they have a strong end up that season they'll put themselves in contention, but they've got more work to do after the short break.

Finally if Bob Harley is in the squad I'll go full private Fraser.


Last edited by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:40 pm

Also, Townsend has learnt to his cost that you can't just copy Glasgow's fast and loose style at international level - we have been found wanting physically numerous times in the last year where he's picked lightweight teams. Are the likes of Cummings and Fagerson really going to address that in a world cup?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:50 am

To be fair I think I was in a pretty grumpy mood when I wrote about Toonie. Sorry about that, although for me he is very much on thin ice as Scotland seem to have spent the last 12 months regressing as he's established himself as coach, bar a couple of excellent performances.

As for overrating chances, I genuinely think Steyn is our best current option at 13. He's familiar with most of the Scotland boys and will get his chance in the summer (although the friendlies tell us very little, of course). I'm not saying Shug won't go, I suspect he will unless he loses us the warmup game against Georgia. He's got too much class in the bank, and will come good again (I hope!).

Agree Stafford definitely won't barring injuries. They say he will come when all hope is lost (so 6Ns 2020 after a group stage knockout in the WC) and revolutionise the way we play, blessed be he.

Cummings, agree about form for most of the season and think we already have plenty of depth there, do think he will come good though.

Also you know Bob will come. It's like when Stroks kept getting picked when he was in France D2.


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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:36 am

Morning gentlefolks Cool

just to add to the debate;

Cummings we must remember that he's only 22! In second row years that means he's only just been hatched. When he arrived on the scene he had a lot of people at Scotstoun calling him a future Scotland captain. His form then seemed to take a dip and there were sriticisms of "laziness" and "lack of aggression", my own feeling is that he can give the appearance of finding it all a bit too easy and playing in his own comfort zone but remember he is a boy in there among some very gnarly old veterans. Recently he has been showing the form that got us all excited when he first came on the scene. At the next WC he will be 26 and , if fit and healthy, should be in his prime. He probably won't travel this time but Toonie has made stranger decisions.

Stafford Agree with almost everything NeilyBroon said with the proviso that he is miles ahead of Dean and Matt No Tackles Scott.  Dunbar and Taylor won't travel So it's Smiling Sam and Furra Linee at 12. 13 is a conundrum; our outstanding attacking 13 can't get a game at Scotstoun Seaman has almost no international experience and Grigg, while experienced, has not really conviced at international level. I'm not saying he can't do a job for us but he's not at the level of a fully fit Mark Bennett. Seaman is going unless someone else makes an outstanding claim. Huw Jones will go because he scores international tries for fun. Hutchinson and Stafford could find themselves vying for the last spot.

Matt Fagerson is going. That's it.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:37 am

I see the BOLD function has a mind of its own today. furious

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:41 am

I've sorted it for you Jimbo (not sure why after all the gloating!) Hug

I did give myself a resolultion of helping the aged more often.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:44 am

Steynsky and Hutch vying it out for 13 would be great for depth.

How many centres did we take last time? 4?
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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:45 am

Name Position Age Caps Club
Fraser Brown Hooker 26 10 Glasgow
Kevin Bryce Hooker 27 2 Glasgow
Ross Ford Hooker 31 88 Edinburgh
Alasdair Dickinson Prop 32 47 Edinburgh
Ryan Grant Prop 29 23 Glasgow
Willem Nel Prop 29 3 Edinburgh
Gordon Reid Prop 28 12 Glasgow
Jon Welsh Prop 28 7 Newcastle
Grant Gilchrist* Lock 25 10 Edinburgh
Jonny Gray Lock 21 15 Glasgow
Richie Gray Lock 26 47 Castres
Tim Swinson Lock 28 13 Newcastle
Blair Cowan* Back-row 29 11 London Irish
David Denton Back-row 25 28 Edinburgh
John Hardie Back-row 27 2 Highlanders
Josh Strauss Back-row 28 0 Glasgow
Alasdair Strokosch Back-row 32 46 Perpignan
Ryan Wilson Back-row 26 11 Glasgow
Sam Hidalgo-Clyne Scrum-half 22 7 Edinburgh
Greig Laidlaw (c) Scrum-half 29 41 Gloucester
Henry Pyrgos Scrum-half 26 16 Glasgow
Finn Russell Fly-half 22 11 Glasgow
Duncan Weir Fly-half 24 19 Glasgow
Mark Bennett Centre 22 9 Glasgow
Peter Horne Centre 25 10 Glasgow
Matt Scott Centre 24 29 Edinburgh
Richie Vernon Centre 28 22 Glasgow
Sean Lamont Wing 34 92 Glasgow
Sean Maitland Wing 27 16 London Irish
Tommy Seymour Wing 27 18 Glasgow
Tim Visser Wing 28 21 Harlequins
Stuart Hogg Full-back 23 33 Glasgow

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:55 am

I wonder if, given our shortage at wing as well, whether Toonie would put Steyn in as a wing and throw in a surprise centre, assuming the squad will be the same or similar format.

So it would possibly be Furra, Sam, Shug and Hutchinson? Maybe even just to get him fully capped as I think if England came knocking pre 6Ns 2020 he would definitely consider it. Wouldn't exactly be a bad squad option.
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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:55 am

Three locks!!!
Four centres!!!!

Looking at the 9's Aldi and Wee George are a step up from Sam The Spaniard and Henners. Frodo remains Frodo.

We took five back three players (Schlong could play wing) I think we'll take four this time with Seaman as the fifth centre/wing/full back.

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:57 am

4 locks - Tiny Tim was picked despite missing all of the pre-season and warm up games while getting married and on his honeymoon, famously over Jim Hamilton because he didn't shake VC's hand at breakfast one day.

Although Gilchrist broke himself early on (he was very breakable in those days) and we kept with 3 locks from memory.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:59 am

RDW wrote:4 locks - Tiny Tim was picked despite missing all of the pre-season and warm up games while getting married and on his honeymoon, famously over Jim Hamilton because he didn't shake VC's hand at breakfast one day.

Although Gilchrist broke himself early on (he was very breakable in those days) and we kept with 3 locks from memory.

Don't forget the mighty Stroks. He was a black belt in every conceivable martial art.
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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:28 am

RDW wrote:4 locks - Tiny Tim was picked despite missing all of the pre-season and warm up games while getting married and on his honeymoon, famously over Jim Hamilton because he didn't shake VC's hand at breakfast one day.

Although Gilchrist broke himself early on (he was very breakable in those days) and we kept with 3 locks from memory.

Ah, Mr Invisible! How could I have overlooked him?

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:34 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:4 locks - Tiny Tim was picked despite missing all of the pre-season and warm up games while getting married and on his honeymoon, famously over Jim Hamilton because he didn't shake VC's hand at breakfast one day.

Although Gilchrist broke himself early on (he was very breakable in those days) and we kept with 3 locks from memory.

Don't forget the mighty Stroks. He was a black belt in every conceivable martial art.

And also a backrow not a lock!

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