Scotland 6 Nations Postmortem and WC Chat

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Post by RDW on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

6 Nations results

Scotland 33 - Italy 20 Yahoo
Scotland 13 - Ireland 22 picard
France 27 - Scotland 10 picard
Scotland 11 - Wales 18 picard
England 38 - Scotland 38 Erm

World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:42 am

RDW wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:4 locks - Tiny Tim was picked despite missing all of the pre-season and warm up games while getting married and on his honeymoon, famously over Jim Hamilton because he didn't shake VC's hand at breakfast one day.

Although Gilchrist broke himself early on (he was very breakable in those days) and we kept with 3 locks from memory.

Don't forget the mighty Stroks. He was a black belt in every conceivable martial art.

And also a backrow not a lock!

I'm sure he was covering for SR at some point!
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Post by RDW on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 10:37 am

Watched the AP highlights programme yesterday and Duncan Weir had a brilliant game again, almost single highhandedly driving Worcester forwards for the win.

Russell and Hastings will be our two 10s, but if one of them gets injured Weir is certainly putting his hands up to be the next cab off the rank. Horne showed against France that he's only an 'in case of emergency break glass' option at 10.

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Post by TJ on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:24 pm

My feeling is unlike previous WCs this oner squad selection is going to be " who do we leave out" rather than previous years "help we need a centre, winger, 10 etc"

Pretty much every position we have either 2 or 3 choices - or an understudy who can do the job.

Back row balance may be an issue and we could do with a bulldozer 8 but apart from that we don't really have any great issues.

Compare the situation now to ten years ago?

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Post by bsando on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:28 pm

Yeah I agree, Weir is a better 10 now. Horne slots in at 12 though I guess and has done well there as a sub in the past. 

I wrote a RWC 31 man squad list for fun yesterday and there are going to be a lot of players on the cusp of breaking that squad this time round. 

Does anyone have info on where Scotland will have their camp pre Japan? I noticed Gatland is announcing his training squad and they’re going to Switzerland and Turkey.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:47 pm

bsando wrote:Yeah I agree, Weir is a better 10 now. Horne slots in at 12 though I guess and has done well there as a sub in the past. 

I wrote a RWC 31 man squad list for fun yesterday and there are going to be a lot of players on the cusp of breaking that squad this time round. 

Does anyone have info on where Scotland will have their camp pre Japan? I noticed Gatland is announcing his training squad and they’re going to Switzerland and Turkey.

Word is Toonie's stepping it up from rabbits to buffalo in subsaharan Africa.

In seriousness my bet is on America, considering the SRU just invested £500k, the least they could do is put our boys up for a couple of weeks.
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Post by tigertattie on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 5:14 pm

Oh My GOD!!!!

Just checking if the bold function works for those of us under the age of 86 and a half

Anyhoo!

A few points of order Mr Chairman.

1. Stop saying "next cab off the rank" - overused phrase which the spam filters need to pick up on this.
2. My delivery from the base of the ruck is far quicker than Pyrgos but even I won't be in the world cup squad
3. Styen is not ready for an international call up, let alone a world cup squad place. He is still an unknown entity who hasn’t played the required 16,456,593 mins of pro rugby for FES to allow his selection
4. Gilcho and Toolis are proven operators at lock and in their knackered state cannot be considered lesser players to Scot Cummings.
5. Weir could make the squad
6. Hamilton wasn’t picked last time as he refused to kill a bunny
7. Stokosch is still a better 6 that Harley
8. Can we PLEASE stop saying how blessed we are for options in positions. We said that before the 6ns and look what happened.
9. I’m hungry
10. Jimbo is old
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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 5:48 pm

tigertattie wrote: Oh My GOD!!!!

Just checking if the bold function works for those of us under the age of 86 and a half

Anyhoo!

A few points of order Mr Chairman.

1. Stop saying "next cab off the rank" - overused phrase which the spam filters need to pick up on this.
2. My delivery from the base of the ruck is far quicker than Pyrgos but even I won't be in the world cup squad
3. Styen is not ready for an international call up, let alone a world cup squad place. He is still an unknown entity who hasn’t played the required 16,456,593 mins of pro rugby for FES to allow his selection
4. Gilcho and Toolis are proven operators at lock and in their knackered state cannot be considered lesser players to Scot Cummings.
5. Weir could make the squad
6. Hamilton wasn’t picked last time as he refused to kill a bunny
7. Stokosch is still a better 6 that Harley
8. Can we PLEASE stop saying how blessed we are for options in positions. We said that before the 6ns and look what happened.
9. I’m hungry
10. Jimbo is old

Hard not to feel blessed when we're the dark horses of pool A Whistle
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Post by jimbopip on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 7:43 pm

tigertattie wrote: Oh My GOD!!!!

Just checking if the bold function works for those of us under the age of 86 and a half

Anyhoo!

A few points of order Mr Chairman.

1. Stop saying "next cab off the rank" - overused phrase which the spam filters need to pick up on this. The this at the conclusion of the sentence is redundant and make your writing seem inelegant.
2. My delivery from the base of the ruck is far quicker than Pyrgos but even I won't be in the world cup squad Which is the point I was making: could you get MrsTattie to take a break from strangling new born kittens to explain the more subtle aspects of humour to you?
3. Styen is not ready for an international call up, let alone a world cup squad place. He is still an unknown entity who hasn’t played the required 16,456,593 mins of pro rugby for FES to allow his selection Seaman has stood beside the good Lord Stafford in the three quarters line: this in itself makes him World Class and good enough for any international team this side of Jupiter. Also he has shaken hands with Nelson Mandela. How many people can say that? oh, now that I think about it....
4. Gilcho and Toolis are proven operators at lock and in their knackered state cannot be considered lesser players to Scot Cummings. The Chuckle Brothers might be good enough for the Luvvies but look what Glasgow's third choice pack did to them! It'll be Gray, Gray, Cummings and Skinner in The Land Of The Rising Price.
5. Weir could make the squad Certainly as a fifth second row. He's miles ahead of The Chuckle Brothers.
6. Hamilton wasn’t picked last time as he refused to kill a bunny He wasn't picked because he insisted on killing the bunny....before he ate it. Well, he did play for the Luvvies.
7. Stokosch is still a better 6 that Harley Let's make them fight for it. We could sell tickets and then we could all go to Japan.
8. Can we PLEASE stop saying how blessed we are for options in positions. We said that before the 6ns and look what happened. No you said the Exfoliators were blessed with Cockers' brilliant game plan and Glasgow were on a hiding and look what happened.
9. I’m hungry Plus ca change Tiger, plus ca change.
10. Jimbo is old You got me there.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 01 May 2019, 12:34 pm

I'm trending!

#GetTattieInTheSqaud

Never mind that Glasgow strip made out of a scout marquee, I'll need a national one.

Headlines around the world

"Former 2nd row/Prop/No8 (depended on who else turned up) with the Height of Cornell Du Preez but the belly of Allan Jacobson, The service of Brian Redpath but the pace of Jim Hamilton (while really drunk), The tactic nous of Jonny Wilkinson but the engine of a prop from the amateur era, rolls out (literally) for Scotland wearing a hand stitched XXXXXXXL strip"
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Post by TJ on Thu 02 May 2019, 8:04 am

Apparently Meatball has been playing really well even ball in hand getting the outside backs going. Could he come back into the reckoning? It would be nice to have a steady 10 available even tho Russell has been much less flaky recently .

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 02 May 2019, 9:40 am

TJ wrote:Apparently Meatball has been playing really well even ball in hand getting the outside backs going.  Could he come back into the reckoning?  It would be nice to have a steady 10 available even tho Russell has been much less flaky recently .

I'd agree but I just remember the absolute drubbing from SA last world cup. Also, Duncy hasn't played with our backs for some time, I can't see him getting the nod unless Hastings and Horne are injured (although you could argue on current form he's better than Horne).
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Post by RDW on Thu 02 May 2019, 9:41 am

Bit harsh giving Weir the blame for the drubbing against SA when we put out a B team. Do you not remember his interception!

Plus it was 4 years ago...

He doesn't fit the mould but he is probably the 3rd choice form 10 for Scotland just now.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 02 May 2019, 9:58 am

RDW wrote:Bit harsh giving Weir the blame for the drubbing against SA when we put out a B team. Do you not remember his interception!

Plus it was 4 years ago...

He doesn't fit the mould but he is probably the 3rd choice form 10 for Scotland just now.

Not disputing his current form, and not solely placing blame on him for SA!

I'm sure Toony will give him a shot in the summer as I think Russell and Hastings are certs and will probably be given 40 mins each then put straight into an ice bath with a team of physios on standby.

Not saying he won't go but I can't see it happening. Stranger choices have been made though, I wouldn't be unhappy if he got picked as an additional 10 but if you include the Glacier thats 4 in the squad covering fly half - which seems excessive. I'd much rather an extra forward!
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:11 am

Only way Weir gets in the side is if two of Hastings, Russell and P Horne are injured. Jackson may even get in ahead of him if there are any injury problems at FB.

Weir will get a few more caps before he is done if he keeps this up, but if we see him in the RWC it is a sign of things having gone badly wrong or we are playing Russia.

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Post by bsando on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:15 am

I wonder if Lang will get a shot too? Seems to be benching a lot at Quins now. 

Also SHC? Will he get a go against Georgia of France? 

These warm up games are going to sneak up pretty quickly.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:44 am

I think Weir will get an all expenses paid "holiday" to Japan in the autumn form the SRU as compensation for the way he was treated. He was afterall the mastermind of that win over England A
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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:57 am

bsando wrote:I wonder if Lang will get a shot too? Seems to be benching a lot at Quins now. 

Also SHC? Will he get a go against Georgia of France? 

These warm up games are going to sneak up pretty quickly.

I think it's a shame we've not given Lang more chances to be honest, he's in danger of being Heathcoted, despite being a decent option at centre and 10.

He offers more solidity as a versatile player than Horne does IMO but does not have the benefit of playing with the Glasgow boys week in week out.

SHC would be worth a look. A very bold choice would be to put him ahead of Laidlaw - I can't see that happening though, and George Horne is too special a player to ignore. It's a shame for him but if he keeps it up at Quins he'll be in contention for 6Ns 2020 for sure.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 02 May 2019, 2:53 pm

WC will be frodo's swan song surely.

This means the 6ns will be Price/Horne with SHC as the altternative option.

I see Horne as the better of all the players so would have him starting. Price offers a similar game to Horne which SHC would be the more game controlling option.
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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 03 May 2019, 10:58 am

Rumours going round that Redpath was offered a chance at a RWC place by Toonie when he got called up by Jones, so slight chance he’ll be in the wider RWC squad, but I suspect not. Also Toonie has apparently been talking to Williams at Newcastle, but given he can represent pretty much everyone I doubt we’ll be his first or second choice.

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Post by RDW on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:10 am

Williams can represent everyone but that doesn't mean he'll be picked by them - he's got a hell of a lot of competition to get into the England or Welsh midfield.

He would be a great asset to us - a centre in the Sam Johnson mould but bigger.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:11 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Rumours going round that Redpath was offered a chance at a RWC place by Toonie when he got called up by Jones, so slight chance he’ll be in the wider RWC squad, but I suspect not.  Also Toonie has apparently been talking to Williams at Newcastle, but given he can represent pretty much everyone I doubt we’ll be his first or second choice.

Where did you hear that? He's come off the bench a few times for Sale, but it would seem unfair for him to usurp others just because EJ has targeted him. Not only that, the lad as good as wants to play for England. He seems very proud of his U20 appearances in the rose, and I wouldn't want him to play for Scotland unless he really wanted to, even if his dad was a proud Scotland international. If Bryan is saying he's tried and failed to convince his son to play for us then that's that. 10 isn't as much of a problem area for us anymore as it was 4 years ago, and with Hastings coming bang into form it's difficult to see what he'd add apart from a secure cap for the future.

Williams again I can't see happening. Has he even had many appearances this year? It would definitely be a selection from obscurity, considering how poor Newcastle have been this season.

I reckon give Lang a shot, try Weir again, either at home or away in France, get McDowall involved too. If SuperDunc is fit enough, give him a spin but I think it's a bit late in the day for him, regardless of his class.


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Post by RDW on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:12 am

Williams has played regularly for Newcastle this year

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:19 am

If both want to play for Scotland, I'll take them. Both have other options so if they elected Scotland over the others then it would certainly show a desire to turnout for us.

I would say 10 is still an issue, or at least enough of an issue that we can't afford to rule potential options out, certainly not options who do seem to have good deal of skill about them.

I'm not saying either will be in the RWC squad (or ever play for Scotland), just pointing out that apparently Toonie has been in touch with them. The conversation could have literally been "fancy playing for Scotland" and them saying no.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:19 am

Oh and Hutchinson of course, who has confirmed he wants to play for us! (through much hustling by big Jim on his podcast...) Fingers Crossed
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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:20 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:If both want to play for Scotland, I'll take them.  Both have other options so if they elected Scotland over the others then it would certainly show a desire to turnout for us.

I would say 10 is still an issue, or at least enough of an issue that we can't afford to rule potential options out, certainly not options who do seem to have good deal of skill about them.

I'm not saying either will be in the RWC squad (or ever play for Scotland), just pointing out that apparently Toonie has been in touch with them.  The conversation could have literally been "fancy playing for Scotland" and them saying no.

As if on cue Williams has been announced as starting at inside centre and Dunbar is OC for Newcastle tomorrow. Chance for both to show their wares prior to summer selection, maybe we're seeing one of a few potential combos that Toonie's thought up.
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Post by tigertattie on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:40 pm

Points of note

A: Williams would be a cap out of nowhere, but so was Chris Harris so Toonie has previous
B: Isnt Redpath tied to England as the U20s are the 2nd team now with the A teams no longer around?
C: Laing is still in with a shout
D: Hutchison is still more likely/deserving of a cap than Steyn
E: Duncy still has the skills
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Post by BigGee on Sun 05 May 2019, 10:12 am

tigertattie wrote:Points of note

A: Williams would be a cap out of nowhere, but so was Chris Harris so Toonie has previous
B: Isnt Redpath tied to England as the U20s are the 2nd team now with the A teams no longer around?
C: Laing is still in with a shout
D: Hutchison is still more likely/deserving of a cap than Steyn
E: Duncy still has the skills

U20s does not tie anyone anymore, so Redpath and any others could still come back to play for Scotland in the future.

Training squad is announced on tuesday, expect 45 or so, which will get cut to 31 for the actual trip.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 05 May 2019, 10:16 am

BigGee wrote:
tigertattie wrote:Points of note

A: Williams would be a cap out of nowhere, but so was Chris Harris so Toonie has previous
B: Isnt Redpath tied to England as the U20s are the 2nd team now with the A teams no longer around?
C: Laing is still in with a shout
D: Hutchison is still more likely/deserving of a cap than Steyn
E: Duncy still has the skills

U20s does not tie anyone anymore, so Redpath and any others could still come back to play for Scotland in the future, Williams has played England U20s as well!

Training squad is announced on tuesday, expect 45 or so, which will get cut to 31 for the actual trip.

Being a Toonie squad you would always expect a few bolters to be in it, Hutchinson probably the most likely for me though but Williams is a very good player

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 05 May 2019, 6:03 pm

I can imagine the conversation in Toonie's house tonight.

"Yes dear, yes dear, I'll mow the grass tomorrow during the mid interval break in the snooker. Oh, wait. There's something else that I haven't got round to. Pass me yon list . You know: that list. Fridge door. Under the SpongeBob fridge magnet. Aye that's it. Scribbled on the back of the Hong Kong Garden's menu. Aye that's it begins with "three number eights and two sixty-nines." No, not that one. That was your birthday treat. On the other side, aye "Six props...or seven...." That's the one. So, I'll do the grass once I finish making this up."

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 8:48 am

Training squad announced at 10.30 this morning!

We certainly don't get the leaks from Toonie to the press that we used to under previous regimes, just wild speculation.

Going to be interesting!

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 8:53 am

Being Toonie I'm sure there'll will be a lot of Googling going on for a few names!

Dunbar had a great assist for Newcastle at the weekend - picked a great line, showed his old pace then a bit of power to bosh a guy away to release his hands. Certainly looked back to his old self - I'm not sure how good he was the rest of the game though!

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 9:01 am

RDW wrote:Being Toonie I'm sure there'll will be a lot of Googling going on for a few names!

Dunbar had a great assist for Newcastle at the weekend - picked a great line, showed his old pace then a bit of power to bosh a guy away to release his hands. Certainly looked back to his old self - I'm not sure how good he was the rest of the game though!

You won't be surprised to hear that he got injured shortly afterwards and went off, which unfortunately kind of sums him up at the moment. There is still a god player in there but the body seems to be falling to bits. I would be very surprised if he even gets in the training squad given we have so many decent options at centre.

Duncan Taylor apparently is now running freely and is on track to be fit by June and then you have the Williams and Redpath rumours to add to our proven players Johnson, Shuggy, Horne P along with known bolters like Hutchinson, Steyn and McDowell. I am not even considering Scott and Bennett (and can hardly believe I am saying that!)

Who would be a selector?

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:30 am

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Squad's up

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:31 am

Highly disappointing - no real surprises in there at all!


Scotland Head Coach Gregor Townsend today named a 42-man training squad in preparation for Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan this September.

A further two spaces in the squad remain unfulfilled (one forward and one back) with Townsend keeping the door open for those operating at the business end of the season to play their way into the group.

Just under half (14) of those named today featured in the 31-man squad that reached the quarter-final of the 2015 tournament in England and have been given the chance to surpass their efforts this autumn.

Edinburgh back-row John Barclay (2007 and 2011) is the only player competing for a third outing, while – at the opposite end of the international experience spectrum – there are three uncapped players.

Former Scotland U18 and U20 centre Rory Hutchinson is rewarded for an impressive season with English Premiership side Northampton Saints, while previous squad members Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) and Blade Thomson (Scarlets) earn a recall, the latter having recently returned to club duty, having missed this season’s Autumn Tests and Guinness Six Nations with a head injury.

Guinness PRO14 title-chasing Glasgow Warriors contribute the most players to the training squad with 17, while Edinburgh provide 13 and clubs outwith Scotland offer 12.

“Today’s selection is a good indication of the depth and level of competition we currently have in Scotland.
Head Coach Gregor Townsend
“We made a conscious decision to keep squad numbers low, which enables us to do more work with those most likely to be on the plane to Japan. We’re really excited to work with this group of players who will now compete hard for a place in the final 31-man group going to the world cup.

“There are of course a number of very good players who have missed out – players who have been unlucky with injuries this year or haven’t hit form at the right time – while others are unlucky to lose out on some very close decisions."

The first block of Scotland’s preparations will see the squad divided into smaller skills and strength and conditioning groups to accommodate post-season breaks for those in the knockout stages of domestic or European Cup competition.

The majority of players will then be given three weeks off and will return from mid-June to intensify pre-season preparations at Oriam, Scotland's National Sports Performance Centre, on the outskirts of Edinburgh.

The pre-season campaign will be punctuated by three residential camps in Scotland and a hot weather camp in Portugal, before four home-and-away Summer Test matches against Georgia and France begin in August to complete the squad’s pre-departure preparations.

Townsend added: “Our goal is to deliver our best rugby on September 22nd [when Scotland face Ireland in the opening Pool round] and throughout the following few weeks, so there will be a big conditioning element driving us towards that.

“We’ve got to be ready to play with energy, huge effort and be fitter than every team we come up against. That will enable us to attack and defend at a high level and put pressure on the opposition.

“There are a number of challenges that await us in the tournament, starting with facing some quality teams in our pool as well as adapting to the Japan’s unique environment.

"As it’s likely to be hot and humid during the tournament, our warm-weather training camps in Portugal and Nagasaki, as well two Test matches in the heat of Nice and Tbilisi, should be invaluable.

“We look forward to building closer relationships with each other and improving as a squad during our training camps, while this opportunity to be together for longer means we can add a couple of things to our game to help us get closer to reaching our potential.”

​SCOTLAND TRAINING SQUAD
FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



SUMMER TESTS (times are local)
Saturday 17 August – France v Scotland; Allianz Stadium (kick-off 9pm)
Saturday 24 August – Scotland v France; BT Murrayfield (kick-off TBC)
Saturday 31 August – Georgia v Scotland; Dinamo Arena (kick-off TBC)
Friday 6 September – Scotland v Georgia; BT Murrayfield Stadium (kick-off TBC)

SCOTLAND RUGBY WORLD CUP 2019 POOL A FIXTURES (times are local)
Sunday 22 September – Ireland v Scotland; International Stadium, Yokohama (kick-off 4.45pm)
Monday 30 September – Scotland v Samoa; Kobe Misaki Stadium (kick-off 7.15pm)
Wednesday 9 October – Scotland v Russia; Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa (4.15pm)
Sunday 13 October – Japan v Scotland; International Stadium Yokohama (7.45pm)

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:41 am

So the Blade Runner and Hutch are the only real bolters and they were widely predicted.

Still the mystery 2 spots up for grabs though and you would have to imagine that Ritchie Gray is in with a shout of the forward one, probably up against Cummings, who has also been playing well.

The back one, well Seaman Steyn must be in with a shout but not sure who that might be against unless he is looking at someone else down south?

If he is looking at end of season form, then that surely rules out any Edinburgh players now

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:43 am

Didn't notice Richie Gray wasn't selected - he must have played 8-10 game in his comeback now - including big Euro games - so you've got to wonder what more Townsend is wanting to see.

I'd hope Steyn carries on his form and gets picked - Grigg or Harris making the squad would be massively underwhelming. Could he be up against McDowell?

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:48 am

McDowell is unlikely to get any more game time for Glasgow this season unless they stack up some injuries, so I doubt it would be him. He unfortunately did not take his chance to impress against Sarries and it has cost him. He will come again though, plenty of time for him.

It could be Duncy I guess, but his season is pretty much done as well though, Worcester will be just going through the motions in their last game.

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:50 am

He's maybe competing with himself then - Townsend could have said to him "show me you deserve a place in the squad".

He's going to get the game(s) to do that so good luck to him.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 10:51 am

RDW wrote:Didn't notice Richie Gray wasn't selected - he must have played 8-10 game in his comeback now - including big Euro games - so you've got to wonder what more Townsend is wanting to see.

I'd hope Steyn carries on his form and gets picked - Grigg or Harris making the squad would be massively underwhelming. Could he be up against McDowell?

I think RG probably has done enough, but it is Cummings who is putting him under pressure to take his place. Toonie maybe wants to see how he performs in the pressure of a knock out match or two to see if youth trumps experience in this case.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:00 am

I have to say that Thompson and Hutchinson are two massively exciting players that could really add something to our game plan and I am really excited to see how they get on in the warm up games. They will both surely get capped in one of the French games.

Tickets for that one go on general release tomorrow and I am hoping to come up for it.

I went to the Italy game pre last WC and watching rugby in Edinburgh in August is definitely a more enjoyable environment than November or February! I don't think I have ever been colder in my life than when I went to the Australia game a couple of years ago. I am sure that contributed to the scoreline, most of the Fijians in the Australian side were checking the flight times home during the warm up!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:08 am

A remarkably unsurprising squad all things considered.

One thing that I think is interesting is the numbers of players by position. As I count it, in the forwards:
- 6 props, 3 on either side. TH as expected, Allan misses out at LH after Bhatti has come into form in recent weeks.
- 4 hookers. You'd have to think Stewart will drop out for the final squad provided Turner comes back well from his head knock next season.
- 4 locks. As mentioned no J. Gray or Cummings, but they may well be competing for the final spot.
- 9 backrowers, plus Skinner who can play on the flank. This is where the most competition is, and suggests Toonie isn't quite sure yet who's going to the WC. Good to see Thomson get a shot after his injury, and some tough choices to be made there, as it's likely to need to be whittled down to 5 at most.

In the backs:
- 4 SHs, with Pyrgios to miss out in all likelihood.
- 2 FHs, plus Laidlaw and Horne for cover. No Weir.
- 7 centres: 2 ICs (Johnson and Horne), and 4 OCs, plus Taylor, who can play both, though most likely at 12 for Scotland. Suggests that as with the backrow this is where Toonie is unsure. The likes of Steyn, McDowell, Scott aren't in, but could be looked at for that extra spot.
- 6 back three players, the expected 5 plus McGuigan, who's likely to miss out provided all others are fit.

So it seems that the biggest selection decisions for the WC are going to be - not surprisingly - in the backrow and centres. What are people expecting the balance of the 31 man squad to be? 17-14 or 18-13? If the former, assuming 9 front row players go, you might have to whittle it down to 4 backrowers (plus Skinner). If the latter, assuming 3SHs and 2FHs, then you either have to limit yourself to only 3 centres (plus Russell/Hastings in a pinch), or 4 back three players (plus Hastings/Jones or Heaven forbid Harris). Tricky decisions to be made in either case.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:22 am

Very conservative from Toonie. Could he be growing up?

Blade was unlucky with injury and Hutchinson simply deserves his place.

Some players are there for unknown reasons though. I suppose you need to keep options open but;

Grant Stewart - Hopefully he's only there in case of emergency. He's a bit drop off in quality from McInally and Brown. I'm still hoping Turner can get back into contention. I think he's a good player.

Ryan Wilson - Behind Bradbury in the pecking order and hopefully Blade can show us what he can do. Wilson is surely surplus to requirements these days. We should no longer be looking at such an average player to play for us.

Nick Grigg - Can't see him hanging around if Hutchinson takes his club form into the international arena.

Chris Harris - Simply not stepping up to international level rugby. Waste of a place imo.

Henry Pyrgos - Really? Why is he here? If Greig gets injured, do we need another glacial service provider? I'd have brought Vellacot in (if he was up for playing) before Hooray Henry.

We've also got a lot of players there for the 13 shirt. Out and out 13s are Grigg, Harris, Hutchinson and Huw. That’s 4 13s. Also Taylor is there as a 12/13 but mostly played 13 for us. So now we're up to 5 13s. Does Toonie have a thing for 13s like Scotty J had for 8s?
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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:30 am

I don't think we can compromise on the back row - we need enough cover there. I also think the likes of Jones and Steyn (if selected) can be emergency wing cover if needed so could mean fewer back 3 players. I also don't think we can risk only taking 5 props unfortunately, especially when none of the options have ever provided emergency cover on the other side of the scrum (like a John Welsh).

We really have been shafted with the Russia game 5 days before the key Japan game - even if we rotate as many as we can we'll still need to have players doubling up the two games.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:38 am

Hutchie can play 12 as well as 13, he was often a FH back in his U20s days, but I agree he looks much better on the outside.

Everyone is assuming that Pete Horne goes due to versatility but I am not so sure, I think he needs to nail down a centre spot for himself before bringing his FH abilities into question. To me Laidlaw covers FH better than he does and to be honest, the way Hornito and Price are playing atm, you would have to wonder whether Laidlaw is going to have anything other than a bench role in any case.

To me the 4 centres on the plane could easily be Hutchie, Shuggy, Johnson and Super Dunc.

It has to be said as well that there will unfortunately be some injuries along the way and others could still come in and get their chance. That would be very unfortunate for whoever loses out.

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:43 am

Horne is a marmite player anyway but certainly didn't do overly much in the 6N to show he's worthy of a world cup spot.

Saying that, if we go for the 4 you suggest we're going to have a horrendously inexperienced midfield and he may want an experienced head in the group. Taylor has over 20 caps but hasn't played for Scotland in years - he's also played next to no pro rugby in years! Will he still be the same player? Jones isn't getting a game jsut now and will have to find form from nowhere.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:49 am

Taylor and Jones have proven class, including at international level, if they are fit, then they will go.

There may be a reluctance to take Hutchie and Steyn (if he comes into the squad as seems likely), neither of whom are capped but we could likely carry one inexperienced player.

You would imagine with Tonnie though, if he thinks you are good enough, regardless of experience, you will go.

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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 11:58 am

Jones I would agree with as his body is still in one piece - Taylor's body is probably in worse shape than Dunbar's so there are big concerns on how he holds up IMO. He's been out for almost a year with a severe knee injury on top of all his other issues - will he be the same player? Does class count for much if you haven't played in 2 years and have had serious injuries in that time? Hopefully he can get back early into pre-season so they can have a real good look at him.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 07 May 2019, 12:05 pm

For anyone looking to get time off work

SCOTLAND RUGBY WORLD CUP 2019 POOL A FIXTURES (times are local)
Sunday 22 September – Ireland v Scotland; International Stadium, Yokohama (kick-off 4.45pm) - So 8:45 am on Sunday morning
Monday 30 September – Scotland v Samoa; Kobe Misaki Stadium (kick-off 7.15pm) - So 11:15 am on Monday morning - Day off needed for me Smile
Wednesday 9 October – Scotland v Russia; Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa (4.15pm) -So 8:15 am on Wednesday monring - Oh look, another day off needed
Sunday 13 October – Japan v Scotland; International Stadium Yokohama (7.45pm) - So 11:45 am on Sunday morning rugby and bacon rolls on a sunday, joyus.
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Post by RDW on Tue 07 May 2019, 12:20 pm

Just need to work from home those days!

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 07 May 2019, 1:04 pm

Sic transit Gloria feccin mundi. Sad

We're all talking about the squad and narey a mention of Big Eck and angel .

Professional sport is a hard arena, indeed. Those two young men were on the verge of greatness five minutes ago and now it's all behind them. Blink and you missed them.
[/Bennett coming on as a late sub against Munster for his Scotstoun debut and scoring a try with his first touch of the ball. i]
Alex Dunbar decking James Downie very early in the semi against Munster: setting the tone for the rest of the match; don't try and intimidate us WE ARE WARRIORS.

On the squad:

Only six props? So all six will be included in every match day squad. This must mean that by the Japan game, which could well decide second place, we will have some very tired legs in the front row.

No Ritchie?? Makes no sense, but then again Mr Invisible is going and that makes even less sense.

Back row; Graham, Thompson, Ritchie, Matt Fagerson and Bradbury have 22 caps between them. Shocked

Scrummie;

Hot and humid in Japan. Very humid. Aldi Price to start at a blistering tempo and Wee George to come on and run tired defences ragged. Frodo to be ...that's it ...I've got nothing.

10's;

Dancer and Haircut. It's clear what style of game we shall be playing. Frodo there to...see my previous comments

Centres;

The AB's reckon you need thirty-odd caps to be able to cope with playing centre in a World Cup. Grigg 9, Harris 8, Johnson 4, Hutchison 0. That could be our centres if the injury hoodoo strikes again. for me it's Johnson-Jones backed by Taylor-Grigg. But I haven't seen Hutchison play.

Back Three;

If he only takes four then it's Hogg and....Blarehorn, NoMates, Seymour. D'Arcy and Barry McGuian to miss out.

The two empty spots are typical Toonie.  Everyone assumes one is for Ritchie to prove his fitness but I still think we need another prop. As for the other, which back would you want to shoehorn in there?

BTW how was Bath, Flounder?

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