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Post by RDW on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am


Last edited by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by alive555 on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:23 am

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/48185544

RG isnt even in the training squad so i guess that means either hes not playing at all,or hes def not considered a starter

no?
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Post by Eejit on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:31 am

There is still space for him. It will be between Gray and Cummings for that spot. Tough call to leave either out considering both were playing meaningful knockout rugby at the end of May while those two carthorses from Edinburgh are already considered on the plane to Japan. censored

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Post by RDW on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:33 am

That's the squad finalised now Eejit - other than through injury Gray snr won't be considered for the WC.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:38 am

Much as i advocate new blood, I think we're missing a trick not even giving RG a look in. As has been mentioned he could help solidify some of our areas of weakness in the forwards. I guess we have time between now and WC to see but if we've got a player of RG's class available I don't see why we wouldn't pick them. A bold but hopefully not wasteful call.

Steyn is a fair shout, he's definitely a good option to have. I wonder if he'll make it due to his ability to play wing too. Him and Hutchinson will be interesting to watch this summer. I hope now they're breathing down shugs neck he'll up his game back to what we know it can be.
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Post by Eejit on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:40 am

Hmm, personally I don’t see it as confirmed till it’s confirmed. Toulouse have a semi to play, but if they get into the Top14 final that isn’t till the 15th June. That’s plenty of rugby left for the big lad to get himself on the plane.

Also as a general rule I never let a chance go by to criticise Edinburgh.

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Post by RDW on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:44 am

Sounds final to me!


​Scotland Head Coach Gregor Townsend today completed the national team’s training squad in preparation for Rugby World Cup 2019, with the selection of uncapped Glasgow Warriors pair Scott Cummings and Kyle Steyn.

Townsend initially named a 42-man squad with space set aside for two players to force their way into contention.

Both players finished the 2018/19 season in impressive form, which they continued into Saturday’s Guinness PRO14 final that ended in narrow defeat to Leinster at Celtic Park.

Townsend said: “We are fortunate to have a number of very good second-rows available to us right now.

"With Richie Gray, Tim Swinson and Andrew Davidson also in contention for this remaining place in our World Cup squad, Scott’s selection is a testament to how well he has performed throughout the season and in particular over the past few weeks.

Scott has played very well in some crucial games for Glasgow and has really taken his game to the opposition.
Head Coach Gregor Townsend
"He was impressive in his ball carrying, defence and his all-round work-rate on Saturday against Leinster and we look forward to working with him and the other four second-rows in our squad."

He added: “Kyle has made an excellent impact since his debut for Glasgow earlier this season and has displayed strong defensive capabilities as well as a providing go-forward for his team when carrying ball.

His versatility is a bonus. He started out playing on the wing for Glasgow, has moved into the centre and has performed equally well in both roles.
Head Coach Gregor Townsend
“With every game he has looked more assured and, from our point of view, he will primarily be considered a winger who can cover the centre position.

"We have others in our squad that we view more as centre/wings but I’m sure over the course of the summer Kyle will get the opportunity to show what he can do in both positions.”

Former Kelvinside Academy pupil, Cummings (22) earned his first professional contract in 2016, having come through the Fosroc Scottish Rugby Academy system. He represented Scotland throughout the age-grades, captaining the U20 side in the 2015 World Championships in Manchester.

Steyn (25) has enjoyed a rapid rise in the past 12 months, first impressing for Scotland 7s in six world series tournaments before forcing his way into Glasgow Warriors’ backline, long before the one-year deal he signed for the 2019/20 season even started.

A former student at the University of Stellenbosch, South African-born Steyn (whose mother Gillian is from Glasgow) played in the Currie Cup for the Griquas and was named as the side’s captain for their 2018 campaign before joining up with the sevens side.

The inclusion of Cummings and Steyn takes the Glasgow Warriors contribution to the extended squad to 19, all of whom will now be given time off to rest before checking into camp next month.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:51 am

The thing is, I don't think RG has been playing as much as we think he has for Toulouse, according to the Offside Line article he has only done 40 mins against Perpignan in the past three weeks. The only time i have seen him recently was in the semi final v Leinster, when he got himself carded with a silly hand in ruck.

Cummings has been outstanding over Glasgow's end of season run, not just in the final. He can carry the ball as well, which makes him a big point of difference to some of our other second rows.

It is a difficult one to leave RG out, but it does not seem that he has hit his full form yet, wheras Cummings is becomming the player we hoped he would become when he first burst onto the scene.

At the end of the day you have got to reward form.

There is still a chance there will be some injuries and he may still get to go, there is usually a bolter or two who goes along on that basis.


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Post by Eejit on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:53 am

He should definitely book himself a holiday in that part of the world and take his boots with him!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Tue 28 May 2019, 11:54 am

Big call picking Cummings ahead of Richie Gray! You certainly can't say Cummings hasn't earned his spot, he's been superb for Glasgow over the last few games, and was magnificent on Saturday. He seems to have definitely added an extra physical edge to his carrying, but still has that athleticism that makes him very much a "modern" lock and one you imagine will fit in well with Toonie's gameplan.

That said, leaving Richie out is a huge call. I admittedly haven't seen a huge amount from him, but he's been starting for a firing Toulouse side*, so can't be doing too badly, and would add some physicality and experience to the boiler room.

Slightly odd that Toonie says he's looking at Steyn primarily as a winger, he's looked much better in the centre for Glasgow, and Scotland already have some really good options on the wing. Still, again you can't say that he hasn't earned his chance, and could IMO be a bolter for the squad.

*according to BigGee this may not be entirely correct, and in fact Richie hasn't been playing that much for Toulouse recently. If so, then the selection makes some sense, but it's still a big call.

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Post by EST on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:08 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Big call picking Cummings ahead of Richie Gray! You certainly can't say Cummings hasn't earned his spot, he's been superb for Glasgow over the last few games, and was magnificent on Saturday. He seems to have definitely added an extra physical edge to his carrying, but still has that athleticism that makes him very much a "modern" lock and one you imagine will fit in well with Toonie's gameplan.

That said, leaving Richie out is a huge call. I admittedly haven't seen a huge amount from him, but he's been starting for a firing Toulouse side*, so can't be doing too badly, and would add some physicality and experience to the boiler room.

Slightly odd that Toonie says he's looking at Steyn primarily as a winger, he's looked much better in the centre for Glasgow, and Scotland already have some really good options on the wing. Still, again you can't say that he hasn't earned his chance, and could IMO be a bolter for the squad.

*according to BigGee this may not be entirely correct, and in fact Richie hasn't been playing that much for Toulouse recently. If so, then the selection makes some sense, but it's still a big call.

That comment is really odd to me, to my eyes he has played far better at 13 and indeed hasn't really been picked on the wing following his first couple of games.

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Post by RDW on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:08 pm

I've been keeping on eye on the Toulouse teamsheet and he has been playing a lot over the last few months - starting a lot but benched a few times too. I wouldn't read too much into his lack of starts recently - it's a long old season in the Top 14 and Toulouse are rightly rotating the team in preparation for the playoffs, especially against the weaker opposition. If he doesn't play in the semi and (likely) final that's a different story.

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Post by RDW on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:08 pm

EST wrote:
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Big call picking Cummings ahead of Richie Gray! You certainly can't say Cummings hasn't earned his spot, he's been superb for Glasgow over the last few games, and was magnificent on Saturday. He seems to have definitely added an extra physical edge to his carrying, but still has that athleticism that makes him very much a "modern" lock and one you imagine will fit in well with Toonie's gameplan.

That said, leaving Richie out is a huge call. I admittedly haven't seen a huge amount from him, but he's been starting for a firing Toulouse side*, so can't be doing too badly, and would add some physicality and experience to the boiler room.

Slightly odd that Toonie says he's looking at Steyn primarily as a winger, he's looked much better in the centre for Glasgow, and Scotland already have some really good options on the wing. Still, again you can't say that he hasn't earned his chance, and could IMO be a bolter for the squad.

*according to BigGee this may not be entirely correct, and in fact Richie hasn't been playing that much for Toulouse recently. If so, then the selection makes some sense, but it's still a big call.

That comment is really odd to me, to my eyes he has played far better at 13 and indeed hasn't really been picked on the wing following his first couple of games.  

We also don't really need more wingers in the squad - we're short on centres.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:23 pm

We are not really short of centres either.

I think if he does go and there is a good chance based on how he has been playing so far, then it will be as a utility player and one of the more favoured wings will be standing down.

Maitland and Seymour are surely nailed on, so it would be one of Kinghorn or Graham.

That would allow him to take 4 other centres, likely to be Hutchie, Shuggy, Johnson and Taylor if they are all fit.

That would be tough on DG and BK, but might be dictated by the squad size and need for fleexibility. Both Seymour and maitland can also cover FB.


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Post by alive555 on Tue 28 May 2019, 12:46 pm

RDW wrote:I've been keeping on eye on the Toulouse teamsheet and he has been playing a lot over the last few months - starting a lot but benched a few times too. I wouldn't read too much into his lack of starts recently - it's a long old season in the Top 14 and Toulouse are rightly rotating the team in preparation for the playoffs, especially against the weaker opposition. If he doesn't play in the semi and (likely) final that's a different story.

my personal locks would either be RG and Cummings, or RG and Toolis. Both combos have carrying ability which Scotland badly lacks. big weakness imho
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Post by EST on Tue 28 May 2019, 1:08 pm

BigGee wrote:We are not really short of centres either.

I think if he does go and there is a good chance based on how he has been playing so far, then it will be as a utility player and one of the more favoured wings will be standing down.

Maitland and Seymour are surely nailed on, so it would be one of Kinghorn or Graham.

That would allow him to take 4 other centres, likely to be Hutchie, Shuggy, Johnson and Taylor if they are all fit.

That would be tough on DG and BK, but might be dictated by the squad size and need for fleexibility. Both Seymour and maitland can also cover FB.


It's a strange and unusual place we Scottish fans find ourselves in, debating which quality player may not make it to the WC. I think Darcy has to be involved - he is a box office and has shown he can handle the physicality of international rugby.

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Post by demosthenes on Tue 28 May 2019, 1:43 pm

I suspect that Taylor will miss out - whilst he is quality I would have doubts about his match-fitness and durability.

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Post by bsando on Tue 28 May 2019, 3:28 pm

Dont know if it’s been mentioned elsewhere but Scotland U20’s obliterated Old Glory DC last night, 70 - 7. Long way to go but apparently the crowd stuck around and attendance was over 2000 people. There’s a full match replay on YouTube.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 28 May 2019, 5:32 pm

demosthenes wrote:I suspect that Taylor will miss out - whilst he is quality I would have doubts about his match-fitness and durability.

Agree on this, I'm a big fan of Taylor but having missed all of this season and most of the last it would be a risk to take him form and injury-wise. Better for him to rehabilitate at Sarries then come back firing for the 6Ns. I think this summer may be a nice warm up for him to get back into the swing of it. Maybe he'll prove me wrong and have some absolute barnstormers but professional rugby is brutal, especially at international level. To come in cold must be bloody difficult to say the least.

Wings-wise, Darcy should go. He's basically the Scottish Shane Williams with a bit of extra punch and Seymour needs the pressure of competition. He will be one of Scotland's top try scorers if he can have a relatively injury-free career. Kinghorn could go but with Hastings and Maits (and even Darcy) covering FB to a decent standard he could miss out. He also needs to learn to pass, he's like Hogg circa 2014. I think Steyn's ability to play centre and wing to a much better standard than what we've seen of Harris works in his favour massively.

So centres I think will be:

Horne, Johnson, Huw, Hutchinson

with Steyn covering OC from wing. Hastings an extra FB slot from FH.
Maits, Seymour and Graham

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Post by jimbopip on Tue 28 May 2019, 7:25 pm

I wouldn't argue with that, Neily.


The only concern is that Not A Pony might find himself number three in the queue for the 13 jersey.

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Post by RDW on Wed 29 May 2019, 10:02 am

My stab at the world cup squad, sitting on the fence for the last BR and centre positions:

Prop - Dell, Bhatti, Reid, Nel, Fagerson, Berghan (I don't think we can risk 5 props in Japan)
Hooker - McInally, Brown (please be fit!), Turner
Lock - Gray, Gilchrist, Tooilis, Skinner
BR - Barclay (C), Watson, Bardbury, Ritchie, Wilson/Fagerson/Thomson (all to play for to get the last spot)

SH - Price, Laidlaw, Horne
FH - Russell, Hastings
C - Johnson, Jones, Steyn, Taylor/Horne/Hutchinson (all to play for again)
Back 3 - Hogg, Seymour, Maitland, Kinghorn (sorry Darcy)

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 29 May 2019, 10:24 am

I think his injury at the end of the season might hurt Kinghorn’s chances of going. Darcy's probably overtaken him, Seymour who was slightly at risk, has really stepped up again and Maitland playing for probably the best club side in the NH. Plus if you factor in Steyn covering both, then I think Kinghorn might be sitting this one out.

In short I largely agree with RDW's squad (and the outstanding questions) except Kinghorn swaps out for Darcy

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Post by BigGee on Wed 29 May 2019, 10:27 am

RDW wrote:My stab at the world cup squad, sitting on the fence for the last BR and centre positions:

Prop - Dell, Bhatti, Reid, Nel, Fagerson, Berghan (I don't think we can risk 5 props in Japan)
Hooker - McInally, Brown (please be fit!), Turner
Lock - Gray, Gilchrist, Tooilis, Skinner
BR - Barclay (C), Watson, Bardbury, Ritchie, Wilson/Fagerson/Thomson (all to play for to get the last spot)

SH - Price, Laidlaw, Horne
FH - Russell, Hastings
C - Johnson, Jones, Steyn, Taylor/Horne/Hutchinson (all to play for again)
Back 3 - Hogg, Seymour, Maitland, Kinghorn (sorry Darcy)

That is not going to be a million miles away.

I would probably bracket Fagerson/Bradbury together though, I think they may be playing for the one slot and MF has also really played himself into contention.

I don't think Darcy will give up without a fight either and he and Blairhorn may be playing for the one spot as well.

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Post by RDW on Wed 29 May 2019, 10:28 am

Yeah I struggled to decide between Kinghorn and Darcy - I'd be happy with either. They're probably another one to add to the 'all to play for' list.

TBF Darcy would offer us a point of difference from our other back 3 options so may be a good shout.

I'm just worried that we would only have Hogg as specialist back 3 cover - yes the others can cover there but they don't regularly play there like Kinghorn.

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Post by RDW on Wed 29 May 2019, 10:33 am

Biggee - you're probably right about the Fagerson/Bradbury battle, especially because they're probably fighting it out for the number 8 slot with Barclay, Ritchie and Watson covering the flanks.

I still think our back row needs a big bruiser ball carrier option, and Bradbury did that well in the 6N.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 29 May 2019, 11:45 am

I don't think Ritchie is nailed on. He has not been playing recently and he has had one good tourney in a Scottish jersey. Him and Bradbury are favourites to go, but M Fagerson and B Thomson could go into the WC warm-ups firing.

Watson is nailed on. If Barclay has a bit of form, he is going. The other three spots are completely open for me with the starting number 8 spot open for Strauss, Thomson, M Fagerson and Bradbury to stake a claim.

Really not sure what do in the centres. S Johnson and H Jones are starters. We really need to know whether Steyn is A) an international level player and B) can he play 12 at that level. Otherwise it is between Horne and Taylor for the back-up 12 spot. The second 13 jersey is between Steyn and Hutchinson unless Harris blackmails Toonie.


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Post by bsando on Wed 29 May 2019, 12:01 pm

I'm definitely in favour of Darcy Graham over Kinghorn. Kinghorn will be a great player once he sorts his defence out a bit but he still looks weak in that area and in a one on one situation in a crucial WC match I'd much prefer the best defender over their height, weight and skillset.

Maitland and Hogg would be my FB's with either Hastings, Taylor, Graham and Seymour as potential injury backup. Maitland from 11 to 15 if Hogg were to get injured makes most sense to me. Hogg should be starting every game I'd imagine, its a tough group.  

Hutchinson and Steyn both offer different attributes whilst being good defenders. Steyn seems to love breaking tackles but is probably less dynamic than Hutchinson who from what I've seen seems good at getting around defences. Hutchinson's offloading and passing game looks very good too, possibly something Glasgow lacked from Steyn in the Pro14 final last weekend.

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Post by jimbopip on Fri 31 May 2019, 6:52 pm

RDW wrote:My stab at the world cup squad, sitting on the fence for the last BR and centre positions:

Prop - Dell, Bhatti, Reid, Nel, Fagerson, Berghan (I don't think we can risk 5 props in Japan)
Hooker - McInally, Brown (please be fit!), Turner
Lock - Gray, Gilchrist, Tooilis, Skinner
BR - Barclay (C), Watson, Bardbury, Ritchie, Wilson/Fagerson/Thomson (all to play for to get the last spot)

SH - Price, Laidlaw, Horne
FH - Russell, Hastings
C - Johnson, Jones, Steyn, Taylor/Horne/Hutchinson (all to play for again)
Back 3 - Hogg, Seymour, Maitland, Kinghorn (sorry Darcy)

Flounder won't be too far away with this selection. I honestly think we can say that there are no players there just to make up the numbers.

However, it's not all good news. The lack of filler, while a good thing, can be looked at in a different way...


Toonie has , almost telepathically, made it obvious that apart from players who are pretty much in everyone's "fit and on form" starting XV he will be looking for "utility" players to give him flexibility in the squad.


So, form Flounder's squad


Front Row All nine will go

Second Row In a way, GG and Toolis benefit from the Luvvies missing out on the play offs. They haven't blotted their copybooks recently. Jonny Gray on the other hand... Against Ladyboys he was top tackler with 25 made. This has to be offset by 13 carries for 11 yards. In terms of his impact on determining the shape of the game his performance was more GG than AWJ. So does Toonie look at a hard tackling, reliable unflashy 4 coupled with a more dynamic, athletic 5? GG-Toolis and Jonny- ? For me Scott Cummings must be in pole position. Skinner can play 6. Blade Thompson is big enough to do a shift in the engine room. I think Cummings is the best second row. Actually, he and GG might be a good option.


Back Row I think Hamish is our best 7, so he goes. Barcs can play 6, and seems to be pretty much nailed on. Fagerson is the form 8 at the moment. I think those three go and the rest are fighting for two spots. Ritchie/Batman/Bradbury/Thompson/Graham. I think Batman goes because he covers 6/7/8 and is good for morale. Bradbury covers6/8 and carries better than Ritchie. So, Graham, Thompson and Ritchie miss out. Actually, they would make a good back row but personally I would prefer to see, Bradbury-Fagerson-Hamish start against the Irish.

Half Backs Flounder's Five should all go.


Centres This will cause a rammy. Johnson goes on form. Furra Linee will go. Firstly, he really changed the tempo when he came on against Ladyboys: he is a very good 12. Secondly, he can cover 10 if needed; third in the pecking order is a fair reflection. Seaman will go because he is on form and he can cover wing and full back. So it's Not A Pony and Hutchieson for the last place. Who would have thought that six weeks ago?

Back Three Hogg (obviously), NoMaits (on great form), Seymour (ditto), D'Arcy. NoMaits and Seymour are very good wingers who can cover full back very well. King Blarehorn is a full back who refuses to pass the ball who has great pace on the wing. D'Arcy Graham is a better out and out winger. NoMaits is a safer option back up full back. King Blarehorn to miss out.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 9:02 am

I watched the premiership final when i got home from work last night.

Sam Skinner had a monster of a game for Exeter. He was on the bench but came on for a 10 min spell in the first half as a HIA replacement in the backrow and then did about 30 mins in the second half in the boiler room.

He seemed to be Exeter's go to guy in the line out and gets around the pitch like something else. He was pivotal in their penultimate try, taking the ball out wide, handing off Maitland, then stepping and off loading for the score. He looks like a very skillful player with a fabulous engine to boot.

He made a big statement for a place on the plane on that performance, looks every inch the big game player.

Maitland, it also needs to be said, also had a good game, despite the Skinner fend. He scored a good try as well and had his all round excellent performance.

Duncan Taylor was sat on the bench wearing a non playing bib and looked like he had been warming up with the team.

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Post by RDW on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 9:54 am

Aye his try assist was pretty special!

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Post by RDW on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 8:48 am

Scotland under 20s got off to a tough start losing 43-19 to SA. It doesn't tell the whole story though as we were within 3 points on 64 minutes to fell to 3 late scores - a scoreline that flattered SA. We were highly competitive in defence and mauls but were smashed in the scrums and lacking physicality generally (which is no surprise).

Things don't get any easier as they're up against NZ in 4 days!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 10:22 am

I had a quick nosey at lunch yesterday. I think by all accounts the u20 lads played well and the scoreline definitely flattered SA (it was 19-27 or something like that when I dropped in). They continue to improve, and we've got to remember that this u20 side is still particularly young. Hopefully they can put in another respectable performance against NZ. But overall not bad at all.

Be interested to see who takes over from Carl Hogg.
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 10:47 am

They kept it close from the sounds of it and gave SA quite a bit. Concerning they fell off in the last 20, but fitness can be fixed in 3-4 months if it is a physical problem. The starting scrum half looks a decent player in the fleeting moments I watched. Could do with another 10 coming through, did not see much of Thompson.

Fraser Dingwall and Cam Redpath looked pretty good in the bits I watched of the England game. Dingwall in particular may be of interest for Scotland in future. Him and Hutchinson could be the Northampton centre partnership in a couple of seasons time

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:10 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:They kept it close from the sounds of it and gave SA quite a bit. Concerning they fell off in the last 20, but fitness can be fixed in 3-4 months if it is a physical problem. The starting scrum half looks a decent player in the fleeting moments I watched. Could do with another 10 coming through, did not see much of Thompson.  

Fraser Dingwall and Cam Redpath looked pretty good in the bits I watched of the England game. Dingwall in particular may be of interest for Scotland in future. Him and Hutchinson could be the Northampton centre partnership in a couple of seasons time

Redpath won't pick Scotland. He's in a position with less competition (even in England) and is more of a standout than Gary Graham to have a "change of heart". I think his dad makes him even more stubborn in his assertion that he'll play for England. The only way I could see him changing his mind is if he was given a hefty contract by Edinburgh to be first-choice FH (more realistic than at Glasgow where Hastings and Thompson have nailed the starting berth). Given Edinburgh's season, the fact they have three fly halves already (with one already very expensive young one) and Sale's stock rising in the premiership, I can hardly see that happening.

Dingwall is England captain so again, I doubt he'll switch allegiances as the same applies for his position and if he's being picked out at this point by England it won't be long before he's involved at a higher level, especially with Jones looking to go tit for tat in cross-border qualified selection.
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Post by RDW on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:11 am

Who is the very expensive young Edinburgh 10?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:32 am

RDW wrote:Who is the very expensive young Edinburgh 10?

Hickey. Didn't they pay a fortune to buy him from Begles?
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Post by RDW on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:35 am

Ah I don't see him as a young 10 - he's very expensive (apparently) and was mean to be our first choice 10. Hasn't happend due to VDW's form (and Cockers complete lack of rotation).

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:42 am

RDW wrote:Ah I don't see him as a young 10 - he's very expensive (apparently) and was mean to be our first choice 10. Hasn't happend due to VDW's form (and Cockers complete lack of rotation).

He was only 24 when he joined!

Yeah it seems like an absolute waste tbh, Edinburgh's speciality is not using players and buying in journeymen. Recruitment leaves a lot to be desired, with players and assistant coaches... Hodge.

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Post by RDW on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:45 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:Ah I don't see him as a young 10 - he's very expensive (apparently) and was mean to be our first choice 10. Hasn't happend due to VDW's form (and Cockers complete lack of rotation).

He was only 24 when he joined!

Yeah it seems like an absolute waste tbh, Edinburgh's speciality is not using players and buying in journeymen. Recruitment leaves a lot to be desired, with players and assistant coaches... Hodge.


Your sounding like an old man like Jimbo and Biggee - 24 isn't young in rugby terms! Wilkinson won a world cup at that age!

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 11:59 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:They kept it close from the sounds of it and gave SA quite a bit. Concerning they fell off in the last 20, but fitness can be fixed in 3-4 months if it is a physical problem. The starting scrum half looks a decent player in the fleeting moments I watched. Could do with another 10 coming through, did not see much of Thompson.  

Fraser Dingwall and Cam Redpath looked pretty good in the bits I watched of the England game. Dingwall in particular may be of interest for Scotland in future. Him and Hutchinson could be the Northampton centre partnership in a couple of seasons time

Dingwall is England captain so again, I doubt he'll switch allegiances as the same applies for his position and if he's being picked out at this point by England it won't be long before he's involved at a higher level, especially with Jones looking to go tit for tat in cross-border qualified selection.

Redpath I accept, however wasn't Dingwall the one who represented Scotland at u18's and whose brother, when asked why he swapped, said it came down to Northampton saying your academy position would be under threat?

Sam Skinner played u18's for Scotland, u20's for England after joining the Exeter academy and now is back for Scotland

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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 12:13 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
Hazel Sapling wrote:They kept it close from the sounds of it and gave SA quite a bit. Concerning they fell off in the last 20, but fitness can be fixed in 3-4 months if it is a physical problem. The starting scrum half looks a decent player in the fleeting moments I watched. Could do with another 10 coming through, did not see much of Thompson.  

Fraser Dingwall and Cam Redpath looked pretty good in the bits I watched of the England game. Dingwall in particular may be of interest for Scotland in future. Him and Hutchinson could be the Northampton centre partnership in a couple of seasons time

Dingwall is England captain so again, I doubt he'll switch allegiances as the same applies for his position and if he's being picked out at this point by England it won't be long before he's involved at a higher level, especially with Jones looking to go tit for tat in cross-border qualified selection.

Redpath I accept, however wasn't Dingwall the one who represented Scotland at u18's and whose brother, when asked why he swapped, said it came down to Northampton saying your academy position would be under threat?

Sam Skinner played u18's for Scotland, u20's for England after joining the Exeter academy and now is back for Scotland

Fair enough. Well if Hutch ends up starting for Scotland he could do us a favour and work on convincing Dingwall!
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Post by EST on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 12:13 pm

It does seem like we have lost Redpath to England - no surprise really, given that he has grown up and gone to school there...I still harbour a faint hopes that Toonies friendship with his old man might convince him to don the thistle, but it's starting to look unlikely.

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Post by Heuer27 on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 4:58 pm

Redpath will be behind Farrell, Ford, Cipriani and Smith waiting for an England shirt, whereas he would realistically only have Russell and Hastings in front of him for Scotland.
Regardless, I would only want someone in a Scotland shirt who wanted to be there. Sad to say, Redpath would rather be 5th choice for England than a competitive option for Scotland.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 5:14 pm

Redpath is really a 12 not a 10 these days but that does not necessarily reduce the competition for an international shirt, for either country.

He really needs to pin down a starting spot in the Sale team next season and properly put himself in the frame. He has been subbing this year, so likely to make the step up.

That is the point that the serious conversations will take place. It does look as if he has England on his mind, but that could still change if the new coach not giving him a look in.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 5:16 pm

Our U20s team is out for the game against NZ on saturday.

He has done a mass rotation meaning that he is not worrying to much about this game. The last one sgainst Georgia is the one that will count

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Post by RDW on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 5:34 pm

Hopefully NZ have taken a similar approach to squad rotation, although I can't imagine it will make much of a difference!

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Post by Heuer27 on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 6:05 pm

BigGee wrote:Redpath is really a 12 not a 10 these days but that does not necessarily reduce the competition for an international shirt, for either country.

He really needs to pin down a starting spot in the Sale team next season and properly put himself in the frame. He has been subbing this year, so likely to make the step up.

That is the point that the serious conversations will take place. It does look as if he has England on his mind, but that could still change if the new coach not giving him a look in.


Ah my mistake. Like you said though, probably the same amount of competition for a place. I hope Eddie Jones is not using the boy like he did with Gary Graham and Ben Vellacot. Both of whom seemed to have killed their international careers before they had started.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 07 Jun 2019, 6:46 pm

From that perspective, it eas maybe no bad thing that he did his ACL

He was no way ready to be capped when Steady Eddie put him in the squad last year. Would likely have got 10 mins of the bench in one game then put on the shelf.

Whoever he gets capped for in the future and it seems very likely he will. He will be much more ready for it than he would have been last summer.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 08 Jun 2019, 9:09 pm

Have to say I am very impressed with how the u20s are playing against Nz. Thompson, Blain, McCallum, Leatherman and Ashman a few standouts.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 08 Jun 2019, 9:10 pm

Ollie Smith too. Looks very positive going forward for our young talent
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Post by RDW on Sat 08 Jun 2019, 11:04 pm

Highlights on ITV 4 just now. I'm sure Scotland will get 30s.

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