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Post by RDW on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am


Last edited by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 09 Jun 2019, 10:07 am

Better off going to YouTube!
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Post by RDW on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 8:42 am

Greig Laidlaw kicked Clermont to victory and will play Ritchie Gray's Toulouse in the Top 14 final, who came off the bench.

Greig's not going to have much of a break before world cup training starts.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 1:06 pm

RDW wrote:Greig Laidlaw kicked Clermont to victory and will play Ritchie Gray's Toulouse in the Top 14 final, who came off the bench.

Greig's not going to have much of a break before world cup training starts.

Will be interesting I guess from a Scotland perspective. From what I gather just looking at the manner of victories, Greig has been helpful just for his goal kicking. Something we're not lacking in. I still think we need to be looking to other leaders this WC, as I think Greig is past his best in leadership and play, a bit like Blair was towards the end of his career.
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 1:35 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:Greig Laidlaw kicked Clermont to victory and will play Ritchie Gray's Toulouse in the Top 14 final, who came off the bench.

Greig's not going to have much of a break before world cup training starts.

Will be interesting I guess from a Scotland perspective. From what I gather just looking at the manner of victories, Greig has been helpful just for his goal kicking. Something we're not lacking in. I still think we need to be looking to other leaders this WC, as I think Greig is past his best in leadership and play, a bit like Blair was towards the end of his career.

Like Ryan Wilson Run

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 2:43 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:Greig Laidlaw kicked Clermont to victory and will play Ritchie Gray's Toulouse in the Top 14 final, who came off the bench.

Greig's not going to have much of a break before world cup training starts.

Will be interesting I guess from a Scotland perspective. From what I gather just looking at the manner of victories, Greig has been helpful just for his goal kicking. Something we're not lacking in. I still think we need to be looking to other leaders this WC, as I think Greig is past his best in leadership and play, a bit like Blair was towards the end of his career.

Like Ryan Wilson Run

To be fair to him the team seems to play well when Wilson is playing, even if he doesn't add a huge amount. He definitely seems to bring a lot of positivity around the squad and a lot of negativity in the opposition, which is useful against the big guns when he's under their skin - England the prime example.

He's definitely more akin to the Joker than Batman, costumes aside.
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Post by RDW on Wed 12 Jun 2019, 4:39 pm

Our under 20s have just lost a tight game to Georgia, meaning we'll be fighitng it out in the relegation games.

Not great.

It's a shame as we have a lot of talented players and we've not played too badly, but it's absolutely brutal at this level.

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Post by jimbopip on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 9:12 am

I was quite impressed with the babies today. That Georgian pack would probably batter a few scrums in the Pro 14. In fact man for man the Georgian XV looked bigger and heavier than our lads...who looked like boys. That said: our game plan was excellent and our execution of it, for the most part, was very good. After the hour mark you could see fatigue setting in and their front row replacements were brutal.

Ewan Ashman looked very good at hooker.
Tom Marshall was impressive at 8 in the last two games.
Although we didn't really see them yesterday Jack Blain, Ollie Smith, Robbie McCallum and Matt Davidson have all shown real promise.

I hope they get a couple of wins in the relegation games because they look a very promising set of players but at the moment they can't buy a victory and losing can become a habit.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 9:45 am

I'm not one of the "they should be ashamed of themselves" brigade that you often see on social media when the SRU post the results. These laddies are still youngsters with many still living at home for goodness sake and chucking abuse at them isnt doing anyone any favours.

The most important thing to remember about U20 level is that it is very very heavily influenced by the age of the players in the squad. Often we have a load of 19 year olds coming in and it's not until the second year when they hit 20 that the squad is then older, more mature, stronger than before.

I can only liken it to playing for School when there was always a huge laddie in the other team that was clearly held back a year or two and had no place being there. As soon as the other boys catch up to the size of the big lump, suddenly he's not as effective.
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Post by jimbopip on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 10:51 am

Were you at school with Schiz then?

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 11:26 am

Got Italy in the relegation round and Georgia get Fiji. I am not sure that is a bad result for Scotland.

If the majority of the team is still 19, avoiding relegation is fine. It does look like there are a few guys who will make it into the professional club game and that is important for us. It looks like the coaching pathways are working as well. With only two professional sides, we need to develop coaches in the u20s and the 7s side.

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Post by RDW on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 11:30 am

Italy is going to be a difficult game - they ran England close and we don't regularly beat them.

Worst case will be a relegation decider against Fiji which we should win.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:01 pm

I see Gavin Hastings has just commented on on Gatland as Lions coach
The last time we saw the desired level of intensity was in the second 40 minutes against England. If Scotland can reach those intensities, then Scotland will have players on the Lions tour.
Of course this begs the question, is he aware that it was literally the last game Scotland. Makes you wonder if his wife pops videos of Scott Johnson's reign on the telly in the evening for him to watch and tells him it's live coverage.

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Post by RDW on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 2:32 pm

it was Scott Hastings who is pretty clueless for someone with such pedigree and who is supposedly a professional sports broadcaster! Same can be said about Johnnie Beattie, who is on another planet.

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Post by 123456789. on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 4:48 pm

RDW wrote:it was Scott Hastings who is pretty clueless for someone with such pedigree and who is supposedly a professional sports broadcaster! Same can be said about Johnnie Beattie, who is on another planet.

My mistake, I have it on good authority that the latest Hastings to play for Scotland is not exactly the brains trust. I suppose the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. And if you've been given the rugby talent that family has then I suppose brains aren't exactly necessary.

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Post by RDW on Thu 13 Jun 2019, 4:50 pm

Good to have you back btw numbers - it has been a while!

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Post by bsando on Fri 14 Jun 2019, 7:40 am

RDW wrote:Italy is going to be a difficult game - they ran England close and we don't regularly beat them.

Worst case will be a relegation decider against Fiji which we should win.

I don't know if any of you who have been watching some of the U20's games have noticed the hilarious commentary?

https://youtu.be/wmPT-7-k0FM?t=68

https://youtu.be/wmPT-7-k0FM?t=259

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Post by bsando on Fri 14 Jun 2019, 7:53 am

123456789. wrote:
RDW wrote:it was Scott Hastings who is pretty clueless for someone with such pedigree and who is supposedly a professional sports broadcaster! Same can be said about Johnnie Beattie, who is on another planet.

My mistake, I have it on good authority that the latest Hastings to play for Scotland is not exactly the brains trust. I suppose the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away. And if you've been given the rugby talent that family has then I suppose brains aren't exactly necessary.

Haha indeed, I also cringed a bit reading that article on the beeb. Each Lions tour is a fresh slate and I think the SRU know what they need to do to warrant selection under Gatland now after 2 low numbered tours. A tough task, but one I'm sure they can rise to. It'll be interesting to see how Wales get on under Pivac and wether Ireland continue the upward curve that has flatlined somewhat since they beat the AB's. It could well be one the best mix of the home nations in decades if Scotland can raise their game to place 3rd or higher in the next 2 6N and somehow make the RWC semi finals in a few months time. Anymore 4th-6th placed 6N will only result in 1 or 2 players getting selected under Gatland unless a couple of guys can really standout like Hogg did pre 2017 Lions tour.

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Post by Cyril on Fri 14 Jun 2019, 8:01 am

On balance I think they’ve made the right decision.

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Post by RDW on Fri 14 Jun 2019, 8:07 am

bsando wrote:
RDW wrote:Italy is going to be a difficult game - they ran England close and we don't regularly beat them.

Worst case will be a relegation decider against Fiji which we should win.

I don't know if any of you who have been watching some of the U20's games have noticed the hilarious commentary?

https://youtu.be/wmPT-7-k0FM?t=68

https://youtu.be/wmPT-7-k0FM?t=259

Aye the commentary has been brilliant.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 15 Jun 2019, 8:36 am

Much as gatland has seen success I'd rather see the lions freshener up and not just because of his selection policy. I can see it happening again with Scotland, even if we place third or higher because:

He doesn't know the players
They don't suit his style

So even if they're picked for the tour, it'll be as a support act to a Welsh/English side.

Best chance we have is if he picks a Scottish assistant. After Toonie' s snub last time I doubt he'll be asked. O'Halloran may have a chance though. It's just a shame that the lions tour has purely become about grinding out wins rather than entertainment.

On an unrelated note, just got tickets to go see Scotland v France this August with my old man, 4 years since our last trip to murrayfield. Anyone else in attendance this year?


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Post by BigGee on Sat 15 Jun 2019, 2:41 pm

Yes i am going and looking forward to it.

I think he might experiment z bit in the first game and go stronger for this home game. It should hopefully be a full on test match with players playing to get on the plane

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Post by RDW on Sun 16 Jun 2019, 10:42 am

So Ritchie Gray is now a Top 14 winner, coming off the bench at the beginning of the 2nd half in a brutal contest with Clermont.

Still really can't follow why Townsend doesn't want that experience of winning big games and physicality in the squad.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 16 Jun 2019, 2:04 pm

Aye i did think that, although I guess it depends on what his impact was off the bench. Physical games against Georgia and France may whittle us down so perhaps toonie is actually being more wily than we think. Sooner call on experience if our guys get injured than new caps. It's quite a luxurious position to be in with the SR.
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 16 Jun 2019, 4:36 pm

If anyone wants an update on Dave Denton they may want to take a peek at the Tigers thread.

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Post by RDW on Mon 17 Jun 2019, 8:46 am

The fact that he still has issues 8 months on really isn't a good sign.

Of course he could end up making a full 'recovery' and come back playing but how big a risk would he be taking to do that not knowing what has actually happened to his head? If he's done basically no exercise at all in that period it's going to take a lot of conditioning to get him back into shape. As you say LT I hope he has a plan for life outside of rugby so he can make the decision to retire for the sake of his health and family - there's only so much risk you can take. Easy for us to say of course!

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Post by bsando on Mon 17 Jun 2019, 8:52 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Aye i did think that, although I guess it depends on what his impact was off the bench. Physical games against Georgia and France may whittle us down so perhaps toonie is actually being more wily than we think. Sooner call on experience if our guys get injured than new caps. It's quite a luxurious position to be in with the SR.

I caught the second half and Gray put in a decent shift, looked good as a jumper in the lineout and made some good tackles and clear outs. Didn't see him carry though so definitely more a defensive shift. He looks in good shape so I'd be very surprised if he doesn't get an opportunity for Scotland as a late call up or as injury cover at the very least. We'll see though.. still only 29 years old so he has a lot more to give the Scotland shirt if he can remain injury free.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 17 Jun 2019, 6:36 pm

The u20s just lost to Italy, it's hardly been a stellar tournament for them having failed to win a match so far. Losing to Italy and Georgia is hardly encouraging. Equally worrying is that the New Zealand team is doing poorly also, so the Kilted Kiwis are obviously not up to scratch either. Hard to see where our players are going to come from at this rate.
Joking aside, unless we lose in the relegation play-off it isn't the end of the world. The graduation rate per year from Scotland u20s to the full side must be pretty low. A lot of these players will be at best Edinburgh bench fodder. Relegation does put us in the mire a bit as the tournament is important for the development of players who will make it.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 17 Jun 2019, 9:57 pm

Can’t say we don’t deserve to go down.

All fine and well saying we’ve got good crop of young players in the national team but if the grass roots game isn’t keeping the conveyor belt going, the future isn’t so rosey.

Hopefully the current u20s team have a far better year next year with another year of growing under their belts.
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Post by RDW on Mon 17 Jun 2019, 10:00 pm

Is it just me or do we say every year 'its a young bunch this year' - they can't be a young group every year!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue 18 Jun 2019, 9:54 am

Whilst the team lost it was all fairly fine margins.

There are still players there who will compliment the older boys nicely. Blain being a good example.

Ultimately u20s will always have some cannon fodder interspersed with special talent. A couple of years ago that was truly a special generation but was a freak occurance in young development sides.
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Post by tigertattie on Tue 18 Jun 2019, 12:17 pm

RDW wrote:Is it just me or do we say every year 'its a young bunch this year' - they can't be a young group every year!

I'm not that up on the goings on at U20 level. Could it be that after a year in the U20s that anyone who can still be selected is then off playing pro rugby somewhere so we bring in a new younger laddie as a replacement.

Meaning we never get a fully mature U20s side out each year?
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Post by RDW on Tue 18 Jun 2019, 12:20 pm

Very few of the under 20s immediately go into pro rugby - the likes of Kinghorn, Fagerson and Ritchie are rare exceptions. Normally we only see them when they get to 22/23 and even then most of the squad won't have made it in the pro game.

I can imagine only 1 or 2 of the current squad will appear for Edinburgh or Glasgow this season at best, and even that will probably be in a friendly or due to lots of injuries in an international window.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 18 Jun 2019, 6:54 pm

Tell you what, I had to laugh at the news story on the beeb. Players in Inverness meeting local youngsters and there’s Darcy Graham sticking his chest out in the hope folk can pick him out as the pro player while standing beside the bairns who really are the same height as him.

Bless.
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Post by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 8:43 am

Townsend reporting that Fraser Brown should be fit for the world cup, which would be a huge boost. He has been with the squad so far (on crutches) which is a sign of confidence.

He's had surgery so will be a push to get him fit for the warm up games.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:32 am

Might not be relevant here, possibly more suited to the Edinburgh & Glasgow thread, but it's all over social media this morning that Finlay Christie has changed his profile pic on a social media platform I’m too old to know about, to include a wee saltire.

There might be nothing to it, but it’s caused a wee frenzy that he could be turning out for Scotland in the near future, or potentially moving over to this neck of the woods to get into contention. Don’t see him joining Glasgow and whilst Edinburgh need a new SH, the rumours are that’s Nic Groom so can’t see it being Edinburgh either sadly. Maybe joining another Pro14 team, or English side

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Post by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:50 am

TBH I'd take either of Pyrgos at Edinburgh.

On that note I'd forgotten he was in the world cup training squad - probably as a back up to Laidlaw. It's not like his Edinburgh playing style overly suits how Scotland play!

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:52 am

is he? Bloody hell, I'd also forgotten about that.


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Post by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:54 am

I've changed the OP to be a world cup thread, and have added the squad so we don't forget who has somehow managed to make it!

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 2:14 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Might not be relevant here, possibly more suited to the Edinburgh & Glasgow thread, but it's all over social media this morning that Finlay Christie has changed his profile pic on a social media platform I’m too old to know about, to include a wee saltire.

There might be nothing to it, but it’s caused a wee frenzy that he could be turning out for Scotland in the near future, or potentially moving over to this neck of the woods to get into contention.  Don’t see him joining Glasgow and whilst Edinburgh need a new SH, the rumours are that’s Nic Groom so can’t see it being Edinburgh either sadly.  Maybe joining another Pro14 team, or English side

Would make sense for him to come to Edinburgh as the young gun alternative to Groom. Pyrgos could easily find himself playing 3rd fiddle again like he was at Glasgow
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Post by NeilyBroon on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 2:42 pm

Hmm whether he'd be allowed to show any skills other than box kicking is another matter though. I'd actually prefer him to be with another team at the moment if he's pushing for a Scotland place!
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Post by tigertattie on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 4:06 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Hmm whether he'd be allowed to show any skills other than box kicking is another matter though. I'd actually prefer him to be with another team at the moment if he's pushing for a Scotland place!

absolutely

He'd be wasted at Glasgow though behinf Price and Horne unless they had him for the seaon with the WC then 6Ns shortly after to be cover but he'd need to move somewhere after that realistically.
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Post by Hazel Sapling on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 5:00 pm

Glasgow still have Frisbee and the youngster whose name escapes me.

Edinburgh have one professional SH at present. Kennedy can be decent, but is not suited to Edinburgh. They need an alternative option. Even with Groom, one injury and they are on to youngsters for the bench.

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Post by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 5:01 pm

Kennedy is gone - Edinburgh just have Shiel and Pyrgos

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Post by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 6:06 pm

In even better news, Duncan Taylor is fully fit!

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 7:28 pm

RDW wrote:In even better news, Duncan Taylor is fully fit!

Is he still fit after posting that?
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Post by BigGee on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 7:32 pm

RDW wrote:Kennedy is gone - Edinburgh just have Shiel and Pyrgos

Edinburgh really need 2 SHs, one injury and HP will be off to the WC leaving just Sheil, who has played a couple of games off the bench. They are leaving themselves very exposed.

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Post by 123456789. on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 7:34 pm

It would be the stuff of dreams to see a fully fit and on form midfield of Russell-Taylor-Jones lining out for Scotland. It might finally exorcise the nightmares of Parks-Morrison-Lamont. When things aren't looking great (i.e after France this year) it is rather soothing to think that even our second choice of Hastings-Johnson-Hutchinson would be light years ahead of them. Weird to think Dunbar, Scott and Bennett once seemed to have the centre nailed down for a decade, shows how injuries can effect a career I suppose.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 8:13 am

Well Hutch may prove to be an absolute gem. Will be interesting to see the combos this summer! We must be the nation with the shortest-lived centres, there's been so many injuries over the years.

Of course let's not forget that Stafford is our king in waiting, Johnson is playing very well at the moment so I'd actually argue he's first choice and Horne is probably our most capped current available centre (and he's still better than Morrison).

As I've said before I'd rather see Taylor get back into it through Sarries with some bench appearances etc. He could prove me wrong but 12 months plus without a game is a long time.

It's a shame Scott has been playing in an Edinburgh side that refuse to use the backline, as I think we could still see some of the best of him and he'd be another good 12/13 option. He's had an unlucky international career, really. Although if Scott's career is unlucky, Bennett's is a Greek tragedy, surpassed only by Thom Evans. I hope he has plans for outside rugby, as I can't see him physically making it any further.

I'd be more than happy with Johnson Hutch or Johnson Jones. They are still some seriously good combos potentially.
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Post by bsando on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 8:27 am

Bennett also admitted he got a bit complacent post RWC 15. Think that with injuries and new talent has really made life hard for him. 

Taylor being fit is wonderful news! Now we just need to see him getting as much rugby under his belt as possible really. I can’t see him featuring against Ireland unless he has a stormer in a warm up against France. 

Glasgow are fully stacked with SH’s now, Edinburgh would be the only real choice for Christie if he leaves Caines and NZ. 

If Thomson can get himself fit too we could have a pretty nifty squad this RWC. The realistic best result is surely QF’s as beating AB’s or SA in that QF looks nearly impossible for both Scotland and Ireland (on their current form).

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Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 20 Jun 2019, 8:43 am

You never know. NZ could catch the choking bug this year like in years gone past. By the sounds of it they've plateaued (By their standards, mind) so if there's any year to beat them, this is the one. SA would just bully us off the park like Leinster did to Glasgow. Neither is a particularly pleasant prospect for a QF but I actually think if there's a chance, it'd be more against NZ than SA due to their respective styles (mad as that sounds). We could yet pull off a win like France did in 2007
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