Scotland WC Chat

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Post by RDW on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

FORWARDS (23)

John Barclay (Edinburgh) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2007 and 2011
Simon Berghan (Edinburgh) – 19 caps
Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow Warriors) – 13 caps
Magnus Bradbury (Edinburgh) – 7 caps
Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 42 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Allan Dell (Edinburgh) – 22 caps
Matt Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps
Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps
Grant Gilchrist (Edinburgh) – 33 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gary Graham (Newcastle Falcons) – 2 caps
Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Stuart McInally (Edinburgh) – 27 caps
Willem Nel (Edinburgh) – 29 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Gordon Reid (London Irish) – 34 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Jamie Ritchie (Edinburgh) – 10 caps
Sam Skinner (Exeter Chiefs) – 5 caps
Grant Stewart (Glasgow Warriors) – uncapped
Josh Strauss (Sale Sharks) – 22 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Blade Thomson (Scarlets) – uncapped
Ben Toolis (Edinburgh) – 18 caps
George Turner (Glasgow Warriors) – 5 caps
Hamish Watson (Edinburgh) – 25 caps
Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 43 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015

BACKS (19)

Darcy Graham (Edinburgh) – 4 caps
Nick Grigg (Glasgow Warriors) – 9 caps
Chris Harris (Newcastle Falcons) – 8 caps
Adam Hastings (Glasgow Warriors) – 11 caps
Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 67 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
George Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Pete Horne (Glasgow Warriors) – 41 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Rory Hutchinson (Northampton Saints) – uncapped
Huw Jones (Glasgow Warriors) – 21 caps
Sam Johnson (Glasgow Warriors) – 4 caps
Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh) – 11 caps
Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne) – 71 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Sean Maitland (Saracens) – 40 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Byron McGuigan (Sale Sharks) – 8 caps
Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 24 caps
Henry Pyrgos (Edinburgh) – 27 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Finn Russell (Racing 92) – 44 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 50 caps; Rugby World Cup 2015
Duncan Taylor (Saracens) – 21 caps



World Cup Warmups

France V Scotland
Scotland V France
Georgia V Scotland
Scotland V Georgia

World Cup Fixtures

Ireland v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 22nd September 2019
Kick Off: 8:45am

Scotland v Samoa
Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
Monday 30th September 2019
Kick Off: 11:15am

Scotland v Russia
Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Shizuoka
Wednesday 9th October 2019
Kick Off: 8:15am

Japan v Scotland
International Stadium Yokohama, Yokohama
Sunday 13th October 2019
Kick Off: 11:45am


Last edited by RDW on Wed 19 Jun 2019, 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bsando on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 9:54 am

Enjoy Llama! Very very jealous, sure it'll be great craic!

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Post by RDW on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:48 pm

Sam Skinner has been ruled out until around January so any chances of him being an injury replacement later in the tournament are well and truly over.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:52 pm

Sk Bradbury likely to be providing second row cover as well if he hangs around in Japan

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 1:33 pm

Went to an Edinburgh rugby event last night, and the expectation is that Bradbury will fly home on Monday assuming no injuries on Sunday.

Oh, and Ben Atiga doesn't think the ABs will get past England, and reckons it's an England vs South Africa final....

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Post by takethelongroad on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:22 am

Ok gentlemen, here is my Well Considered take on things / tin foil hat theory, delete with hindsight.

Who remembers Scotland’s tour to Singapore in 2017? Townsends first game - started off with whirlwind paced rugby, I had not seen Scotland or anyone else for that matter applying and keeping up that tempo before. Any ball that came off the field was quick throw in or a hugely efficient line out and go. It was very clearly a new strategy. Italy were worn out by 30mins 27-3 up at 60mins at whicj point subs were made, game plan changed to normal and we won 34-13. They then went on to beat Australia with same game plan and tempo. Intermittently we saw the same tempo in autumn internationals but then suddenly it went away. The most notable tell is in the setting up of line outs - either quick throw ins only or extremely rapid set up and throw in. We haven’t seen those since.

I don’t think Townsend has forgotten this style. In fact I think it was used as a trial run for something. Singapore in June is hot, humid and hard work for athletes, just like Japan. Remember there was talk about an argument in the dressing room at half time in the Calcutta cup game, Finn thought time to do something a bit different - they did and 38points were quickly scored. Maybe Finn reverted to Townsends plan A rugby against orders to keep the powder dry for the World Cup? This week will tell but I hope I am right. That the hyper-warp speed tempo we have seen from time to time hasn’t just been forgotten about or abandoned but rehearsed ad infinitum and ready for this tournament. Thoughts?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:25 am

Nice thought, but maybe a stretch...
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Post by takethelongroad on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:34 am

Agreed, but if I am wildly mistaken, I wonder why the tempo has been dropped for the last 18m or so, it seemed pretty effective when employed.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 11:49 am

I think it's more to do with townsend being burned by strategies like Gatlands (who along with Schmidt are determined to make rugby a very dull sport) so has become a bit more conservative.

I still don't think he's a very good coach, the difference with Scotland and Glasgow is that at Glasgow he had a brilliant coaching team (including McFarland) and lower competition in the opposition. When he came up against teams like Sarries, his Glasgow couldn't hold their own. This has translated to the global stage, and now he hasn't got as strong a coaching team. The way he got the gig was pretty deplorable. He needed more experience with other sides but had the arrogance to demand the Scotland role under threat of him leaving when we had a coach who was willing to take scotland further after making them a very tough side.

I'm hoping Toonie'll prove me wrong but i believe what we're seeing is his deficiencies as a coach.

The litmus test will be the game tomorrow. We need at least a LBP if not a win.
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Post by RDW on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 1:13 pm

So 4 weeks today I'll be on a beach in Sydney for a wedding (a good thing), but I've just realised if we finish 2nd in our group it will clash with our quarter final (a bad thing!)

So come on Scotland - beat the Irish!

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 4:33 pm

takethelongroad wrote:Ok gentlemen, here is my Well Considered take on things / tin foil hat theory, delete with hindsight.

Who remembers Scotland’s tour to Singapore in 2017? Townsends first game - started off with whirlwind paced rugby, I had not seen Scotland or anyone else for that matter applying and keeping up that tempo before. Any ball that came off the field was quick throw in or a hugely efficient line out and go. It was very clearly a new strategy. Italy were worn out by 30mins 27-3 up at 60mins at whicj point subs were made, game plan changed to normal and we won 34-13. They then went on to beat Australia with same game plan and tempo. Intermittently we saw the same tempo in autumn internationals but then suddenly it went away. The most notable tell is in the setting up of line outs - either quick throw ins only or extremely rapid set up and throw in. We haven’t seen those since.

I don’t think Townsend has forgotten this style. In fact I think it was used as a trial run for something. Singapore in June is hot, humid and hard work for athletes, just like Japan. Remember there was talk about an argument in the dressing room at half time in the Calcutta cup game, Finn thought time to do something a bit different - they did and 38points were quickly scored. Maybe Finn reverted to Townsends plan A rugby against orders to keep the powder dry for the World Cup? This week will tell but I hope I am right. That the hyper-warp speed tempo we have seen from time to time  hasn’t just been forgotten about or abandoned but rehearsed ad infinitum and ready for this tournament. Thoughts?

An interesting theory, reminds me of when Alf Ramsey took over the England Wendyballers just before the 1966 World Cup: in one of his first matches, Spain I think, he played 4-3-3 with no recognisable wingers. No-one else in international football was doing this at that time. England played well, Ramsey never used that formation again until the World Cup, but had been using it in training sessions. You all know what happened next.

The only flaw in Mr High Road's theory is that we play at a whirlwind tempo for an hour with Frodo and then replace him with Aldi Price in order to slow the game down. Headscratch

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 5:49 pm

He's just saving wee horney for the QF hattrick
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Post by tigertattie on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 6:22 pm

Our back row will get steam rolled by SA or NZ if we get to the quarters. Especially if we deploy batman to stand back and watch the fight.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 21 Sep 2019, 9:52 pm

He has the power of bruce Wayne's leadership. Have faith!
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:31 am

Well, it’s game day!

Bit of a lie in to recover from the jet lag and last nights sake in a bar that was considerably smaller than my living room. Then up, kilt on, out for some weird and wonderful Japanese breakfast, quick train over to Yokohama, bit of a wander round, hit the fan zone, beers, head to the stadium, nice unstressful Scotland victory, quick after match stalking of the Scotland team and fanboying of Hamish Watson, back to Tokyo for more beers and Karaoke. Lovely.

Really not sure what you were all thinking not heading over here! Hug

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 7:35 am

News for you. The Typhoon hit Northern Europe instead of Japan.

Some Forecasters need sacking.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 7:44 am

Llama, how is the weather in Yokohama?
Will the typhoon enhance the drama?
Will the day be foul and fair?
Will the ball fly through murk and filthy air?
Will Sexton be crying for his mama?
How are things in Yokohama, Llama?

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 8:01 am

Ireland must be getting nervous...

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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 8:18 am

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Well, it’s game day!

Bit of a lie in to recover from the jet lag and last nights sake in a bar that was considerably smaller than my living room. Then up, kilt on, out for some weird and wonderful Japanese breakfast, quick train over to Yokohama, bit of a wander round, hit the fan zone, beers, head to the stadium, nice unstressful Scotland victory, quick after match stalking of the Scotland team and fanboying of Hamish Watson, back to Tokyo for more beers and Karaoke. Lovely.

Really not sure what you were all thinking not heading over here! Hug

Jealous!

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 8:31 am

One thing is clear, for both sides, the phoney war of whatever happened this year so far is over. No more cloaks and/or feints. They gotta show us what gears they have. Toughest (on paper) game first up. No hiding places.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 9:05 am

It’s going well lads, all part of the plan Shocked Sad

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 10:49 am

Scotland are a much better team than that performance vs Ireland

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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 10:51 am

It's sh!te being Scottish.

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 10:57 am

NeilyBroon wrote:I think it's more to do with townsend being burned by strategies like Gatlands (who along with Schmidt are determined to make rugby a very dull sport) so has become a bit more conservative.


I thought Ireland were more exciting to watch today than Scotland!
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:02 am

Aye I'll give you that oracle but that's hardly a compliment!
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Post by George Carlin on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:09 am

Right then. Let's all come in and close the door to keep any wumming, crowing, jingoism or overstatement away from this thread.

I couldn't watch the game because Sundays are a working day over here.

Can someone who did see tell me just why it was so bad? BBC report essentially suggests that we could not get our hands on the ball, made far too many mistakes but also, crucially, that the players did not look hungry at all. If it really is that latter, then that is a coaching problem and Townsend really does need to answer some questions.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:14 am

It was so bad Scotland could not score a try, or even looked like they wanted to score a try at any time in the game.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:19 am

We could get the ball George but we couldn’t keep it.

We knocked on. We got caught in midfield by a blitz defence. We kicked the ball with no one chasing it. We got turned over at the tackle. We threw the ball into touch. We tried to charge down a free kick, getting a fingertip on the ball, that gave them the line out

It was the ultimate game for Schmidt’s game plan. They just gave us the ball then came up in a line and waited for us to cough it up.

It’s no disrespect to Ireland, they didn’t play brilliantly well, they were just competent and scored when the opportunity arose (that we gifted them)

We were truly awful. Like Matt Williams awful
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:19 am

I wouldn't even watch the highlights george, we have serious problems. I think we could end up losing to samoa next week if we play like that.

The takehome for me is that Toonie is simply not a good coach and has finally been exposed at the highest level. He's been outcoached by Schmidt in the same way every time and just hasn't learnt.

We will struggle to get out of the group.
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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:23 am

Scotland have conceded on average 28 points against tier 1 nations away from home in the last 2 years.

What's that about our defence...?

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:24 am

Does shaun Edwards fancy a job in Scotland?
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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:27 am

tigertattie wrote:It’s no disrespect to Ireland, they didn’t play brilliantly well, they were just competent and scored when the opportunity arose
Ireland did muscle up with three flop-over-the-line type tries. From then on it was game over as they put the squeeze on with their one-dimensional defence orientated plan. Disappointed for Scotland, expected more.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

So did we!

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Post by bsando on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:31 am

Why do we not compete harder at breakdowns? I want to watch that first 20 again to see what we were doing in defence. It was all just so soft and Ireland only needed a couple of phases to get over the whitewash.

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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:33 am

Scotland head coach Gregor Townsend is addressing the media in Yokohama just now.

"We didn’t start with the energy, accuracy, and aggression that is required to beat a team like Ireland," he said.

"Ireland started very well and took their chances when they got into our 22. They’re probably the best team in world rugby if you give them a 15 to 20 points start, it will be very difficult to

Whilst what Townsend says true he's once again not addressing the major failings that have dogged so many of our performances lately.

Yes a bit more enthusiasm would have helped but there are major issues with the team just now.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 11:38 am

The eel wriggles away from the problems.

Just hand in your notice, Toonie. Scotland look like Edinburgh under Bradley.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:00 pm

Disappointment doesn't quite cover it. Right now it's anger. Toonie is horribly out of his depth. He has ruined his inheritance from Cotter. The team is without strategy, foundation or basic skill. We will struggle to beat anyone on the back of that performance.

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:20 pm

RDW wrote:
Scotland head coach Gregor Townsend is addressing the media in Yokohama just now.

"We didn’t start with the energy, accuracy, and aggression that is required to beat a team like Ireland," he said.

"Ireland started very well and took their chances when they got into our 22. They’re probably the best team in world rugby if you give them a 15 to 20 points start, it will be very difficult to

Whilst what Townsend says true he's once again not addressing the major failings that have dogged so many of our performances lately.

Yes a bit more enthusiasm would have helped but there are major issues with the team just now.
What a crock of scheize.
A bit of an amateur wrote:"We didn’t start with the energy, accuracy, and aggression that is required to beat a team like Ireland,"

You're talking as though someone other than you was responsible for that, Gregor.
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Post by tigertattie on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:35 pm

So what needs to happen?

What should happen?

What will be likely to happen?

For me I don’t think we can throw the baby out with the bath water at this stage. For example you can’t go deploying Bradbury as he’s not been involved in the training for the last week and a bit.

I think we’ll see Cummings coming into the 2nd row. Unbelievable to think but Jonny Gray could be dropped. He just wasn’t at the races at all today.

Ritchie will be coming in in place of an injured Watson. I think blade will start at 8. Ryan Wilson dropping to the bench but by rights he should be dropping back into being that “good club guy who noises up the opposition” for Glasgow. I think I’ve seen him play one good half of rugby for Scotland. He’s an utter waste of a jersey and he’s not even a good bloke to mitigate that wastage.

Laidlaw while a great servant, simply doesn’t play the game plan suited to Finn. Either play jnr horne and Finn or you stick someone like Weir (who isn't in the squad) outside laidlaw.

I’m hoping that SJ and Taylor start to click as they get game time
Together. If they don’t, we’re in trouble.

Finally, Seymour needs dropped, start Darcy and put blairhorn on the bench and tell Hogg that unless he passes and creates for others rather than going for glory (unsuccessfully) for himself, he’s off and Blair is on (but Blair needs to be told the same thing)

Samoa and Russia simply shouldn’t be bothering us so they should be used to tinker and the rest important players in readiness to throw the kitchen sink at Japan.


The problem we have is that even if we spank the other three nations in the group, if we get humped by a NZ side who look like they’ve awoken from their slumber, then couples with the spanking from Ireland, our WC can only be considered an abject failure.

That’s if we even get out the group.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:48 pm

Big 'if' there!

Feeling very conflicted. If we scrape through toonie is safe and Scotland's downward trend continues.

If we get knocked out that'll be the 2nd time in 8 years. Not ideal and a horrible prospect but toonie will go and we'll potentially get a better coach. It does, however, see japan or samoa through, who I'd be delighted for.

On balance I'd rather we dont!
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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Big 'if' there!

Feeling very conflicted. If we scrape through toonie is safe and Scotland's downward trend continues.

If we get knocked out that'll be the 2nd time in 8 years. Not ideal and a horrible prospect but toonie will go and we'll potentially get a better coach. It does, however, see japan or samoa through, who I'd be delighted for.

On balance I'd rather we dont!

Please go and say this on the Scottish rugby Facebook page, I want to laugh at the tepid ‘oh at least they turned up in the right kit, they must be trying hard’ responses

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:04 pm

To be fair, i get that with our limited resources, we should be happy we can even field a pro team and thats usually the slant they come from on the fb boards. I wouldn't be so bothered if it wasnt for the fact we have played so much better in the last few years with the same key players.

If we had come off the back of the hadden or robinson era I'd just be happy if we showed up. Considering the quality of the individuals in the team and the fact the basics have eroded away since vern left is probably due to coaching ineptitude.

Either the players do a france and revolt or we dont make it. One thing for me is certain, we need a new coaching team.
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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 1:56 pm

Don’t mean to be an aesehole but Scotland was held up as a positive example of a British/Irish side that ‘did not’ have a coach from NZ (or Australia). Will the Scottish coach be given the boot? And where will the next coach come from?
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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:00 pm

He is on a written warning!

Dave Rennie would get my vote. Similar gameplan to Toonie but with a lot more edge!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:08 pm

Aye and we're paying for wanting a 'homegrown' coach. I don't really care where we would get a new coach from, provided they're good. I expect rennie may be lined up if toonie goes but his glasgow can be a soft touch too. Lineen is a solid, if unspectacular, option. Cockerill doesn't suit our gameplan but could be defence maybe?


In short i dont know who would. Scotland have gone from an attractive coaching challenge back to a poisoned chalice, and just like that we're back to the early noughties
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Post by George Carlin on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:11 pm

It would absolutely have to be Rennie for me - I am just worried that he has already committed to a job back in NZ when his current tenure ends.
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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:12 pm

If he's sensible he will have. Word on the street is Australia want him, which given their performance against fiji may come sooner rather than later.
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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:12 pm

Not quite, as we do actually have some half decent players these days, which we did not have then.

Scotland remain a coaching challenge but there will be decent coaches who will fancy a crack at it.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:15 pm

Any commitment to a club job may have a get out if sn international one comes along.

It may be more of a worry that Oz slready have him lined up. I don't think he has hidden his ambitions about international coaching.

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Post by ebop on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:17 pm

I’ve heard those Australians are looking at Rennie? He’s a quality leader and deserves a shot at a national team.
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Post by RDW on Sun 22 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm

I thought Rennie was committed to going closer to home for family commitments?

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