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Post by Dontheman2 on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 10:26 am

. Does anyone know the status of the Summer warmup games. Ie are they practice with unlimited replacements or proper test matches.?

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 11:15 am

Dontheman2 wrote:. Does anyone know the status of the Summer warmup games. Ie are they practice with unlimited replacements or proper test matches.?

Proper test matches played under normal international regulations with idependent officials, TMOs and citing officers. While there may be some agreements on the makeup of the squads for individual games (ie previously when England/Wales had two games as this year each would typically be first string v backups) the number of replacements etc will not change.

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Post by Dontheman2 on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:34 pm

Thanks for that LT

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 12:48 pm

Tidy, can't wait to address the balance.
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Post by Pie on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 4:23 pm

Wales will just use these as selection games, while England will be desperate to regain some semblance of dignity.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 26 Mar 2019, 4:35 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Tidy, can't wait to address the balance.

Wish we could cancel both games against you, to be honest. Can't be bothered having to put up with Eddie Jones' pre-match theatrics and crazy ramblings.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 1:31 pm

RiscaGame wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Tidy, can't wait to address the balance.

Wish we could cancel both games against you, to be honest. Can't be bothered having to put up with Eddie Jones' pre-match theatrics and crazy ramblings.

That's what Aussies do when they are not sanding cricket balls, training to pull pints or surfing.
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Post by PhilBB on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 2:09 pm

If it's like last time, it'll be the first team playing the home game against the second team of the visitors.

Not really a proper competition.
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Post by miaow on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 3:49 pm

Literally just a fitness/body sharpening exercise. As well as a way for the Unions to make some money due to the revenue lost from no AI fixtures. To have 4 warm up games is ridiculously excessive/money grabbing. Two of those will likely involve some really scratch/fringe teams.

What's clear is that Wales will lose betwee 1 and 3 of the warm up games. Effectively 'ending' the winning test run - but not in a competitive, first team sense. Which is good from a psychological stanpoint going into the Australia game.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 27 Mar 2019, 11:28 pm

miaow wrote:Literally just a fitness/body sharpening exercise. As well as a way for the Unions to make some money due to the revenue lost from no AI fixtures. To have 4 warm up games is ridiculously excessive/money grabbing. Two of those will likely involve some really scratch/fringe teams.

What's clear is that Wales will lose betwee 1 and 3 of the warm up games. Effectively 'ending' the winning test run - but not in a competitive, first team sense. Which is good from a psychological stanpoint going into the Australia game.

...well...have to agree with that... thumbsup

Though you might find actually losing them might turn out to be harder than you think.

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Post by Cyril on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 12:08 am

Sooo... win them all and you’re too cocky. SH/NZ hoover them up.

Lose 1,2 or 3 and lose momentum and SH/NZ do the same.

Taylor, do you always bet 10p on the favourites?

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 1:29 am

Not about being cocky, its about having the right level and source of motivation.
A winning streak over 12 plus months in rugby not a good source of motivation in itself for a major must win next test. Its more of a hindrance because its always on everyone's minds, its in the press, its on the players minds, its certainly KEY to the oppositions motivation, and the results of those tests, especially the first half of them, serve little in providing real value to the required mindset, other than, we're pretty good so far.

In other sports it might be more of a help, in rugby not so. For me playing the ABs when theyve just lost is the worst time to play them. Players senses are heightened, the press and fans are doubting them, whole different ball game. Thats what Dublin was about after Chicago.

Problem for Wales is, when push comes to shove, will they be able to experiment in the friendlys or will they be tempted to keep the winning record, to not 'risk' giving the team a downer so close to the World cup.

Then which is better, getting key players matches or trying to remain unbeatable...'scary'...

I know which I'd prefer...


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Post by Cyril on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 7:16 am

So it’s better to lose a 6 Nations or Rugby Chamionship game rather than a warm up? Seems odd.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 2:23 pm

Taylorman wrote:Not about being cocky, its about having the right level and source of motivation.
A winning streak over 12 plus months in rugby not a good source of motivation in itself for a major must win next test. Its more of a hindrance because its always on everyone's minds, its in the press, its on the players minds, its certainly KEY to the oppositions motivation, and the results of those tests, especially the first half of them, serve little in providing real value to the required mindset, other than, we're pretty good so far.

In other sports it might be more of a help, in rugby not so. For me playing the ABs when theyve just lost is the worst time to play them. Players senses are heightened, the press and fans are doubting them, whole different ball game. Thats what Dublin was about after Chicago.

Problem for Wales is, when push comes to shove, will they be able to experiment in the friendlys or will they be tempted to keep the winning record, to not 'risk' giving the team a downer so close to the World cup.

Then which is better, getting key players matches or trying to remain unbeatable...'scary'...

I know which I'd prefer...


Feel bad for whoever you get in the Bronze match after we knock you out in the semis then. Whistle

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 5:47 pm

Yes well weve been there three times and lost one so wouldnt be a first. This year the general quality of the top sides is poor overall in comparison to previous tournaments so its all up for grabs, ABs certainly will do well to get the hat trick.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 9:55 pm

If a team is motivated by their oppositions' unbeaten run, then how is the unbeaten team also not motivated by their unbeaten run? It worked well for Wales thus far, the youngsters stepping up when they were asked as some of them have never been on a losing team. We also seen Wales fall behind in test matches and look like they were really under pressure, only to respond in the second half and go on to win the game. The last time we played Ireland in a warm-up we lost quite badly after we made a few changes; there was an immediate response in the return fixture. It will probably go the same way in this years warm-ups, except that I can't see us losing that badly with the players we now have available - I'm also assuming there won't be any injuries. No Welsh club team playing well this year and some players to return, so we may have some good luck on the injury front.

I would prefer it if we could win all those warm-up games. You can't honestly believe that a team going into world cup final is going to struggle badly? Wales already look as if they've mastered knock-out rugby. I hope we haven't 'peaked too soon' like the All Blacks did Wink.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 28 Mar 2019, 11:20 pm

"If a team is motivated by their oppositions' unbeaten run, then how is the unbeaten team also not motivated by their unbeaten run? "

Very good question and one you really only get the answer to when you've seen it several times. Wales havent. Nor have their fans.

One answer is you say it as though its like for like. But its not. because the unbeaten team needs to be 'confident' one match after the other, then the next, and the next, and the next etc etc.

The other side gets that feeling once- one shot at the unbeaten side. Next match, a different side gets that shot, one shot.

If you are thinking that after 14 matches both sides are going into that equation equally, youre dreaming. The next side is still on that 'one shot!'. The unbeaten side is on 'shot no. 15'. No way the energy levels on both sides are even for that next match.

Ive seen the ABs coming up to the seventeenth match, after winning all the titles on offer, once again facing a side frothing at their 'one chance' to send the unbeaten side packing. Watching the side struggling to come up with reasons they 'must' win the next ones were painful. You wanted them to lose to rid the burden in the end.

Good thing about that was the ABs chose their losses well, Chicago was match 19 after the unbeaten world cup win, a 3-0 thrashing of wales, a 6-0 sweep in the Rugby championship, 3-0 in the Bledisloe, then Chicago, the first match with nothing on it in 19 tests. After Chicago, they immediately regrouped, went through the AI's unbeaten, and didnt lose until the one close Lions defeat a year later. Sure, they lost one of rugbys holy grails in never having lost to Ireland but you simply can't keep winning that number of matches in this game, somethings gotta give.

Thats why I say wales needs to shed the sequence in a non important match to drop the media frenzy if they keep winning, and end up under so much pressure at knockout time theyll surely crumble.

Losses when theyre often arent usually useful but when theyre rare, as the next one will be for Wales, they can be invaluable learning points, as long as they know how to use it. At the very least they flush all possible thoughts from the players minds that they can 'beat anyone'. In rugby thats not always a good thing.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 2:34 am

Well that was my point... thus far the Wales squad have been motivated by their unbeaten run, and will continue to do so until it ends; when it ends I doubt it will be because they folded under their own unbeaten pressure Rolling Eyes

It's probably not a good idea to draw a comparison with the ABs; better to do so with Aus, SA, Eng, Ire. England's last unbeaten run was unexpectedly halted by Scotland, who totally outplayed them. I don't think they lost because they were unbeaten... but no doubt that streak kept them motivated to keep winning their games at Twickenham. Australia haven't come close to them for a long time.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 5:20 am

Wow. Wonder if there's any unusual betting patterns when NZ choose to throw these games.

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Post by miaow on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 9:14 am

Conspiracy theory stuff Tman

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 8:59 pm

No, just the way things work. Yes no good to compare with an AB run but lending too much on an unbeaten run for your confidence is poor strategy. Cos when its gone you have nothing. Wales should experiment full on every test between now and the wcup. Go backwards to go forward.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 9:13 pm

Another oddball logic...

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 9:35 pm

“...the ABs chose their losses well”.

I’ve read some stuff on here, but jeez!
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 10:56 pm

Well I hope they choose to lose the upcoming world cup final to Wales, as that would set the ABs for a dominant period over the next 4 years Wink

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 29 Mar 2019, 10:58 pm

Yet its so true. The only losses since 2009 that have cost losing a tour or title are the two RCs in world cup years when they were cut down versions and experimentation was obvious. Coincidence? Na.

Hong kong, chicago, the two AI losses, the odd early RC match. All low prio, loseable matches.

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Post by The Oracle on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 1:06 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yet its so true. The only losses since 2009 that have cost losing a tour or title are the two RCs in world cup years when they were cut down versions and experimentation was obvious. Coincidence? Na.

Hong kong, chicago, the two AI losses, the odd early RC match. All low prio, loseable matches.

Why did the ABs try so hard to win them then? They were all busting a gut at the end of those games trying to claw back the points. They looked genuinely gutted to lose too. Didn’t look like teams trying to lose to get the winning streak off their backs.
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Post by LondonTiger on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 3:05 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yet its so true. The only losses since 2009 that have cost losing a tour or title are the two RCs in world cup years when they were cut down versions and experimentation was obvious. Coincidence? Na.

Hong kong, chicago, the two AI losses, the odd early RC match. All low prio, loseable matches.
Congratulations. You have insulted the ABs by suggesting they deliberately lost games, and patronised the winners by suggesting the ABs did not try.

Only the officials left to upset.

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Post by Pie on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 3:25 pm

And in doing so you reveal your own ridiculous bias. No pro rugby player, especially not an All Black as they are clearly more professional than everyone else, would ever take to the pitch regarding a game as 'losable'.

taylorman's problem is his belief in NZ omnipotence which is in fact just plain arrogance combined with a lot of ignorance. A dangerous and yet all too common combo.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 5:33 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yet its so true. The only losses since 2009 that have cost losing a tour or title are the two RCs in world cup years when they were cut down versions and experimentation was obvious. Coincidence? Na.

Hong kong, chicago, the two AI losses, the odd early RC match. All low prio, loseable matches.
Congratulations. You have insulted the ABs by suggesting they deliberately lost games, and patronised the winners by suggesting the ABs did not try.

Only the officials left to upset .

Wayne Barnes doesn’t even go to NZ any more, he’d get lynched!

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 9:41 pm

Pie wrote:And in doing so you reveal your own ridiculous bias. No pro rugby player, especially not an All Black as they are clearly more professional than everyone else, would ever take to the pitch regarding a game as 'losable'.

taylorman's problem is his belief in NZ omnipotence which is in fact just plain arrogance combined with a lot of ignorance. A dangerous and yet all too common combo.

Just shows again theres no idea in the minds of our northern friends. They try hard at the end is proof theyre not throwing matches? Really?

Im advocating the planning and prioritising of the seasons schedule. There are matches a side needs to target more than others. The result of which means should they have to lose one, it should be the ones with less priority.
‘Go onto the field with loseable on their mibds’
Geez, Talk about thick.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 9:47 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yet its so true. The only losses since 2009 that have cost losing a tour or title are the two RCs in world cup years when they were cut down versions and experimentation was obvious. Coincidence? Na.

Hong kong, chicago, the two AI losses, the odd early RC match. All low prio, loseable matches.
Congratulations. You have insulted the ABs by suggesting they deliberately lost games, and patronised the winners by suggesting the ABs did not try.

Only the officials left to upset .

Wayne Barnes doesn’t even go to NZ any more, he’d get lynched!

Think you mean ireland. Hes been here at least ten times since so yeah. Nah.

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Post by miaow on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 10:00 pm

Taylorman wrote:Im advocating the planning and prioritising of the seasons schedule. There are matches a side needs to target more than others. The result of which means should they have to lose one, it should be the ones with less priority.
‘Go onto the field with loseable on their mibds’
Geez, Talk about thick.

Like rotating against the likes of Italy, a weakened Argentina, and during the AIs? Sometimes losing, sometimes winning, with a rotated team? Or, in terms of the first team, we've seen Ireland play well within themselves during the 6Ns after losing against England - likely holding things back for the RWC once the title was almost impossible. Like that, or does it not count, because the water flushes the wrong way?

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 30 Mar 2019, 10:07 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Im advocating the planning and prioritising of the seasons schedule. There are matches a side needs to target more than others. The result of which means should they have to lose one, it should be the ones with less priority.
‘Go onto the field with loseable on their mibds’
Geez, Talk about thick.

Like rotating against the likes of Italy, a weakened Argentina, and during the AIs? Sometimes losing, sometimes winning, with a rotated team? Or, in terms of the first team, we've seen Ireland play well within themselves during the 6Ns after losing against England - likely holding things back for the RWC once the title was almost impossible. Like that, or does it not count, because the water flushes the wrong way?

Yep, if that works. Better logic than ‘going onto the field thinking a match is loseable’.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 31 Mar 2019, 2:27 am

We’re supposedly having Byron Hayward as defence coach after the World Cup, this is the worst appointment we could get. Shaun please stay!

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 31 Mar 2019, 8:46 pm

Is there a schedule for the friendlys yet? Kinda the intention of the OP? Will they be given test status?

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 31 Mar 2019, 9:04 pm

Taylorman wrote:Is there a schedule for the friendlys yet? Kinda the intention of the OP? Will they be given test status?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Rugby_World_Cup_warm-up_matches

This includes the Rugby Championship and the Pacific Nations Cup, as well as the European series.

All matches I believe will have full test status, with international caps handed out and rankings points exchanged as you'd expect. Wouldn't expect to see teams at full strength across the 4 weeks, although with Eddie at the helm nothing would surprise me with England selection!

Edit: the exception to the above is obviously the Argentina vs French Barbarians game and the Uruguay vs South Africa XV game.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 01 Apr 2019, 12:23 am

Cool ta, more than I expected to see. Form at that time of the year will be interesting.

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