Pro 14 Run in, who finishes where

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Post by Brendan on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 11:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Current Standings (Position overall log)

Conference A
2 Glasgow 71(2) Leinster (a), Edinburgh (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
3 Munster 68 (3) Benetton (a), Connacht (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
5 Connacht 56 (4) Blues (h), Munster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
6 Blues 52 (6) Connacht (a), Ospreys (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
10 Ospreys 49 (9) Kings (a), Blues (a) T3=0 M=1 B3=1
11 Cheetahs 36 (11) Dragons (h), Kings (h) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
14 Zebre 19 (14) Scarlets (a), Benetton (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

Conference B
1 Leinster 74 (1) Glasgow (h), Ulster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
4 Ulster 54 (5) Edinburgh (a), Leinster (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
7 Benetton 52 (7) Munster (h), Zebre (a) T3=1 M=0 B3=1
8 Edinburgh 51 (8) Ulster (h), Glasgow (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
9 Scarlets 45 (10) Zebre (h), Dragons (a) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
12 Kings 22 (12) Ospreys (h), Cheetahs (a) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
13 Dragons 21 (13) Cheetahs (a), Scarlets (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

In the Conference System
First - Home Semi, Glasgow (+3), Leinster (confirmed)
Second - Home Quarter, Munster (+12), Ulster (+2)
Third - Quarterfinal, Connacht (+4), Benetton (+1)

Champs Cup playoff
Home (Highest fourth) Blues (+3)
Away Edinburgh (+6)

Wooden Spoon
Zebre (-2)

Home Semi is confirmed as Leinster with Glasgow or Munster taking the other spot.
Home Quarter seems to be the loser of Munster/Glasgow and any of Bennetton, Ulster or Edinburgh
The last spot in the quarters look a shootout between Connacht and Blues.

If you add in Ospreys with an outside chance of Champs Cup there are 7 teams fighting for the remaining 4 places.  If any of the Pro14 teams win either Euro then the highest placed fourth gets the spot and 5th in the Conference goes into the playoff (unless that team winning don't make the playoffs i.e. Edinburgh)

The wooden spoon will be an interesting fight with 3 teams only divided by 2 points.  The Kings seem to have the up hand due to their ability to get Bps.

This has backed up last year of the middle teams really after upping their game and making every game from now till the end a game of meaning for both team (such as Connacht v Bennetton this week is bad for the losing team, for the winner they might still be on a knife edge)

What are people predictions for the final standings.

The Fixtures show Edinburgh with the hardest run in playing two of the top 3 teams and none of the bottom three.  Scarlets on the other hand have none of the top 3 but 2 of the bottom 3 as do Cheetahs. Ospreys play 3 of the bottom 4 plus the Blues so could close the gap on the Blues. They are on a 6 game losing streak in all competitions so might not be any help.


Last edited by Brendan on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 3:30 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:42 pm

Assuming the last 4 of the ECC all finish in the top 6 of their domestic league, and Leinster win the RCC, there would be 2 welsh teams in the champs cup next year no?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 7:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Assuming the last 4 of the ECC all finish in the top 6 of their domestic league, and Leinster win the RCC, there would be 2 welsh teams in the champs cup next year no?
I believe so.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 1:54 pm

In accordance with a decision of the EPCR Board comprising the nine unions, federations and league bodies, the 20th place in the Heineken Champions Cup will be determined as follows:

v) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Heineken Champions Cup winner.

Anyone know if this means that the Pro 14 would combine both conferences and make an overall comparison. Or whether 4th place in conference a would trump 5th place in conference b irrespective of total points amassed etc?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 2:13 pm

i) Heineken Champions Cup winner, if not already qualified
ii) Challenge Cup winner, if not already qualified
iii) Challenge Cup losing finalist, if not already qualified
iv) Play-off match between the losing Challenge Cup semi-finalists, if not already qualified
v) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Heineken Champions Cup winner


Should:

1) Leinster beat Saracens
and
2) La Rochelle not finish in the top 6 of Top 14 (currently 6th, five points clear of 7th and eigth)
and
3) Quins and Sale fail to make the top 6 in GP (currently 5th and 6th with a fight on their hands)

Then the loser in the playoff would qualify, because yes 4th place trumps 5th from other conference even if 4th has less points.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 2:20 pm

LondonTiger wrote:yes 4th place trumps 5th from other conference even if 4th has less points.

Excellent. Thanks.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:35 pm

I think it's better if we have two teams in the top competition. Scarlets still have the most potential to do well there IMO. Ospreys and Blues teams both look really good, but the coaches aren't good at all. Both would throw it in the challenge cup too I reckon despite the fact they could very realistically win silverware there.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:13 am

I'm hearing that there are big problems behind the scenes regarding the Euro play off with the Welsh teams.

Can't say much more but it is all due to the lack of clarity given by the Pro14 as to who finishes were - and whether a joint finishing places league of all the teams trumps the conference style finishing places.

Absolute clusterfck by all accounts. Well done Pro14.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:25 am

https://www.pro14rugby.org/about-us/competition-rules/
The link seems pretty straight forward?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:31 am

As I mentioned above, there is huge contention over what "highest ranked" means in this case - due to the conference system. The Pro14 are making it up as they go along here because it's the 1st time it has happenned. (I think Gloucester were the 20th team last season)

Absolutely inexcusable for this to happen. There are big conflicts going on and certain clubs are fuming.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:37 am

I'm not sure I follow the point you're making ab9ut highest ranked? You are talking about who qualifies for Europe aren't you?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 11:44 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm not sure I follow the point you're making ab9ut highest ranked? You are talking about who qualifies for Europe aren't you?

I am talking about the extra position given to the highest qualifies team in Europe. If Leinster win the H Cup and all 4 Challenge cup semi finalists are in the top 6 of their leagues as it stands - then the Pro14 get an extra team in Europe Champions Cup. Who that team is - is now up for debate. Certain teams are going ballistic at the process.

I think (although am not 100% as it's so confusing) that e are now in a situation where:

1) The Scarlets could play ospreys and winner goes through with another spot available.

2) The Scarlets could play the Cardiff Blues away with the Ospreys automatically going through.

3) Or there could be no play off at all with both the Scarlets and the ospreys going through.

The situation is compounded by the fact that nobody knows the permutations until the French league finishes at the end of May. And if we were to have a play off after that date - it would be 5 weeks since the teams last played - and all our internationals would be unavailable. What an utter mess

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:01 pm

Ah I get you I think. In the event that there are more than the 7 set teams?

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Post by miaow on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:01 pm

Yeah, not a great situation, and an inevitable issue that arises from the frequent reworking/restructuring of the league with little care.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:38 pm

These things happen though. It's not that long ago the Premier league had an issues with Liverpool winning the Champs League but out of the top 4. They'd not even considered it until years of the same format of qualifying and then we'll into the season it happened.
On that tinkering aspect it surely can't be that long before the euro qualification if the south Africans comes up as well.

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:45 pm

Simplest solution would be for the losing team in the 7th play-off game to be selected if the PRO14 get the 20th team slot.
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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 12:48 pm

Is it not an issue with the ERCC as much as anything to do with the Pro 14 especially given it's their qualifying criteria?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 1:59 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Simplest solution would be for the losing team in the 7th play-off game to be selected if the PRO14 get the 20th team slot.  

Because in that scenario the play off is for 8th. Not 7th.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:30 pm

Why wouldn't that work though rugby fan? It would echo the current approach looking at the suggestion.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 3:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why wouldn't that work though rugby fan? It would echo the current approach looking at the suggestion.

Don't understand sorry. Just read this to get your head round it...

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/big-welsh-rugby-twist-means-16220203

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 3:24 pm

Oh right . They 've already stated what will happen then. What s wrong with that then. Seems clear.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 4:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh right . They 've already stated what will happen then. What s wrong with that then. Seems clear.

How can the play off home advantage be based on league positions, yet euro play off home advantage is based on points?

Shambles of a league

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 4:34 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Oh right . They 've already stated what will happen then. What s wrong with that then. Seems clear.

How can the play off home advantage be based on league positions, yet euro play off home advantage is based on points?

Shambles of a league

Erm picard

Is he for real?


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 May 2019, 4:41 pm

He can't be surely?

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 4:48 pm

Does this mean he wants home advantage decided by league position for the Euro play off? Either that or he really is trying to b!tch about anything and everything in the hopes it'll stick

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Post by Brendan on Fri 03 May 2019, 5:03 pm

I think the team so helped the Irish the most should get the spot. Sure we all know that is what will happen.

To fix it they should offer Scarlets two choices.
1. Give the 7th spot to Ospreys and then have a playoff between Scarlets and Blues with the winner getting the 8th spot if it's available
2. Have the playoff as normal and the loser will need to play the Blues for the 8th spot if it happens.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 6:50 pm

Oh my god the Euro play off could be on a Wednesday night.

This is now bordering on ludicrous.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 6:52 pm

Wait until he sees the World Cup schedule

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 3:14 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Oh my god the Euro play off could be on a Wednesday night.

This is now bordering on ludicrous.

I know, that journey between the two teams is going to be so difficult to do.

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Post by Eejit on Sat 04 May 2019, 3:47 pm

Fingers crossed for a midweek game, that would be ace.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 4:43 pm

Are Benetton going to the semi, not sure if Munster can work it. Maybe a penalty

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Post by VinceWLB on Sat 04 May 2019, 4:57 pm

Benetton were making a lot of ground ball in hands.. Knew they were going to lose the moment they settled for a drop goal, not once but twice..

Just show you how mental this game is.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 4:59 pm

By the skin of their teeth.

Good to see Bennetton showing up and holding their own.

50% change in teams from the playoff last year.

Like Munster of old a few SH backs have added a nice edge to them.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:00 pm

VinceWLB wrote:Benetton were making a lot of ground ball in hands.. Knew they were going to lose the moment they settled for a drop goal, not once but twice..

Just show you how mental this game is.

As a team they need to learn the playoff knowledge. Will be good for next year

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Post by VinceWLB on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:03 pm

Brendan wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:Benetton were making a lot of ground ball in hands.. Knew they were going to lose the moment they settled for a drop goal, not once but twice..

Just show you how mental this game is.

As a team they need to learn the playoff knowledge.  Will be good for next year

I hope they continue their steady improvement. They don't appear to have lost any player of note, with a few more signings in the back division, they could be even tougher to play against next season.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:06 pm

Well done Nigel Owens. What a performance for Munster.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:11 pm

They face the same challenges as Edinburgh this year of backing up the good year of results.

If the Conferences stay the same or they change up there will be four teams looking for 3 spots. I think Munster Leinster and Glasgow are still a cut above everyone else, but teams 4 - 10 is a very tight affair. WC will also play a role

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Post by Brendan on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:13 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Well done Nigel Owens. What a performance for Munster.

Like all top teams they get over somehow. Semi final is as far as it goes though so good but still lacking.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:18 pm

Great game and hard luck Benetton - they deserved to win that one. Munster through by skin of their teeth.

About 10k at Thomond apparently - same as last year’s QF. Not bad for a bank holiday weekend.
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Post by miaow on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:51 pm

Didn't watch the game but this doesn't look great: https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/1124705015426424832

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:55 pm

My god Owens is a Poopie ref. And people call Clancy bad. Owens is dire.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Sat 04 May 2019, 6:02 pm

miaow wrote:Didn't watch the game but this doesn't look great: https://twitter.com/theblitzdefence/status/1124705015426424832

Dear God. That is an utterly insane decision.

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Post by miaow on Sat 04 May 2019, 6:06 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:My god Owens is a Poopie ref. And people call Clancy bad. Owens is dire.

Dire...or very, very w€althy...?

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Post by VinceWLB on Sat 04 May 2019, 6:07 pm

To make things worse, Owens gave 10 meters to Munster because Benetton players complained.. Just enough to make the penalty kickable!

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Post by Heaf on Sat 04 May 2019, 6:11 pm

Very poor by Owens - virtually identical incidents (hands on floor first) were pinged twice against Sarries this afternoon ... then again Owens seems to have a blind spot for certain Irish teams Run

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 05 May 2019, 10:03 am

Don't be like that Heaf. Nigel, as we call him here in Ireland coz he's one of our own innit... he only has a blind spot for four of the Irish Provinces. It's not like he handing out favours to the other ones!

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Post by Heaf on Sun 05 May 2019, 10:56 am

Very Happy

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 05 May 2019, 11:36 am

VinceWLB wrote:To make things worse, Owens gave 10 meters to Munster because Benetton players complained.. Just enough to make the penalty kickable!

Because the Benetton scrumhalf kicked the ball away you mean....
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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 05 May 2019, 11:56 am

I reckon Owens celebrity went to his head years ago and he isnt great anymore.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 05 May 2019, 6:14 pm

Nigel O'Wens Wink

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 05 May 2019, 8:12 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Nigel O'Wens Wink

I think someone came up with that 3 years ago.   PRO’14 is so much funnier.  Or Martin O’h-Anayi.  Or Co’nference A and Co’nference B.   And the final being played in Celtic Park in Glasgo’w Yahoo 

And then there’s all those Irish players in the Welsh regions - the O’spreys, and Co’rdiff, the Drago’ns and Sco’rlets.   

Think of the playing positions

PRO’P   
HO’OKER
LO’CK
O’PENSIDE
MCBLINDSIDE
BACKRO’W
O’UTHALF
O’UTSIDE CENTRE
MCWINGER

And the players - Liam McWilliams, Ken O’wens, George No’rth...

It’s such fun.   McScrums, Lineo’uts, Mcmauls, Mcpenalties, Kick-o’ff, Liam McWilliams, the list is endless....
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