Pro 14 Run in, who finishes where

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Post by Brendan on Thu 21 Mar 2019, 11:42 am

First topic message reminder :

Current Standings (Position overall log)

Conference A
2 Glasgow 71(2) Leinster (a), Edinburgh (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
3 Munster 68 (3) Benetton (a), Connacht (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
5 Connacht 56 (4) Blues (h), Munster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
6 Blues 52 (6) Connacht (a), Ospreys (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
10 Ospreys 49 (9) Kings (a), Blues (a) T3=0 M=1 B3=1
11 Cheetahs 36 (11) Dragons (h), Kings (h) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
14 Zebre 19 (14) Scarlets (a), Benetton (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

Conference B
1 Leinster 74 (1) Glasgow (h), Ulster (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
4 Ulster 54 (5) Edinburgh (a), Leinster (h) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
7 Benetton 52 (7) Munster (h), Zebre (a) T3=1 M=0 B3=1
8 Edinburgh 51 (8) Ulster (h), Glasgow (a) T3=1 M=1 B3=0
9 Scarlets 45 (10) Zebre (h), Dragons (a) T3=0 M=0 B3=2
12 Kings 22 (12) Ospreys (h), Cheetahs (a) T3=0 M=2 B3=0
13 Dragons 21 (13) Cheetahs (a), Scarlets (h) T3=0 M=2 B3=0

In the Conference System
First - Home Semi, Glasgow (+3), Leinster (confirmed)
Second - Home Quarter, Munster (+12), Ulster (+2)
Third - Quarterfinal, Connacht (+4), Benetton (+1)

Champs Cup playoff
Home (Highest fourth) Blues (+3)
Away Edinburgh (+6)

Wooden Spoon
Zebre (-2)

Home Semi is confirmed as Leinster with Glasgow or Munster taking the other spot.
Home Quarter seems to be the loser of Munster/Glasgow and any of Bennetton, Ulster or Edinburgh
The last spot in the quarters look a shootout between Connacht and Blues.

If you add in Ospreys with an outside chance of Champs Cup there are 7 teams fighting for the remaining 4 places.  If any of the Pro14 teams win either Euro then the highest placed fourth gets the spot and 5th in the Conference goes into the playoff (unless that team winning don't make the playoffs i.e. Edinburgh)

The wooden spoon will be an interesting fight with 3 teams only divided by 2 points.  The Kings seem to have the up hand due to their ability to get Bps.

This has backed up last year of the middle teams really after upping their game and making every game from now till the end a game of meaning for both team (such as Connacht v Bennetton this week is bad for the losing team, for the winner they might still be on a knife edge)

What are people predictions for the final standings.

The Fixtures show Edinburgh with the hardest run in playing two of the top 3 teams and none of the bottom three.  Scarlets on the other hand have none of the top 3 but 2 of the bottom 3 as do Cheetahs. Ospreys play 3 of the bottom 4 plus the Blues so could close the gap on the Blues. They are on a 6 game losing streak in all competitions so might not be any help.


Last edited by Brendan on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 3:30 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 Apr 2019, 3:40 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Precisely half of the officiating team in the Connacht v Cardiff game are Irish.

What a league.

Precisely half the officiating team in the Edinburgh and Ulster game will be Scottish

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 10 Apr 2019, 4:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Precisely half of the officiating team in the Connacht v Cardiff game are Irish.

What a league.

Precisely half the officiating team in the Edinburgh and Ulster game will be Scottish

What a league.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 10 Apr 2019, 4:05 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Precisely half of the officiating team in the Connacht v Cardiff game are Irish.

What a league.

Precisely half the officiating team in the Edinburgh and Ulster game will be Scottish

What a league.

Why? If the officials are of a high enough standard why not?

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Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 10 Apr 2019, 5:41 pm

Pretty much 100% of the officials in the GP are English & 100% in the Top14 are French - is the Pro14 twice as good?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 9:11 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Pretty much 100% of the officials in the GP are English & 100% in the Top14 are French - is the Pro14 twice as good?

Pathetic

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Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 1:33 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Pretty much 100% of the officials in the GP are English & 100% in the Top14 are French - is the Pro14 twice as good?

Pathetic

Given the dire financial straits of the PRL they probably can't afford anyone from a different country - but the LNR could so yes, pathetic.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 3:09 pm

Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

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Post by Brendan on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 3:34 pm

BigGee wrote:Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

This shows why the Derbies aren't free points for which ever team needs them. If Munster beat Benetton and Ulster win they would be 2nd. Instead Munster's result might end up with Ulster being 4th.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 4:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Precisely half of the officiating team in the Connacht v Cardiff game are Irish.

What a league.

Precisely half the officiating team in the Edinburgh and Ulster game will be Scottish

What a league.
When the league put in inexperienced neutral refs, people still complained. The league can't win.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 4:04 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Precisely half of the officiating team in the Connacht v Cardiff game are Irish.

What a league.

Precisely half the officiating team in the Edinburgh and Ulster game will be Scottish

What a league.
When the league put in inexperienced neutral refs, people still complained. The league can't win.

Some people just like complaining and seem to lack the ability to grasp the complexities of it all

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 5:36 pm

BigGee wrote:Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

That’s Benetton into the playoffs then, good for them. Munster have done enough on both fronts this season to be able to rest their top players. After the game against Cardiff I assumed they were looking to go unbeaten but this says otherwise. Perhaps a loss to Benetton will curtail their season so maybe not such a good move.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 11 Apr 2019, 6:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

That’s Benetton into the playoffs then, good for them. Munster have done enough on both fronts this season to be able to rest their top players. After the game against Cardiff I assumed they were looking to go unbeaten but this says otherwise. Perhaps a loss to Benetton will curtail their season so maybe not such a good move.  

I think a bad game against Sarries in the Euros, having rested all their players might do that.

Still it is probably a risk worth taking for them, Glasgow still got to beat Leinster (and we don't know what kind of team they will put out) and Edinburgh, or at least one of them and neither are gimmes.

If they don't top the league, they will fancy their chances on the road in any case.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 12 Apr 2019, 8:53 pm

Benetton vs Munster not going like some of us expected it to...

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 12 Apr 2019, 9:31 pm

BigGee wrote:Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

Ulster are pretty happy. And so are Munster - they only got 5 points. Smile
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Post by BigGee on Fri 12 Apr 2019, 9:35 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well Munster have pretty much gone full B team for their game against Benetton on Friday night, they will do well to come out of that game with anything at all against a buoyant Italian side who will pretty much guarantee a play off place if they win this one.

Can't imagine Edinburgh or Ulster are going to be thrilled about that.

Ulster are pretty happy.   And so are Munster - they only got 5 points.  Smile

Both deserved it

Looked like Benetton chocked. Edinburgh just looked off the pace, nothing left in the tank

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Post by Brendan on Fri 12 Apr 2019, 10:56 pm

Benetton know a TBP against Zebre gets them a playoff.  If they don't get a BP they just need to get within 9 pts of Edinburgh win margin. While they might not win away to Munster or Glasgow the fact they get there is good enough for this season and gives the fans reward for their faithfulness over the years.

Munster now 2pts ahead of Glasgow with a better points difference (+49) meaning that if Glasgow get nothing out of Leinster they need to hope Munster lose their last game.

Ospreys up to 4th and only 2pts behind Connacht.  If Blues beat Connacht they could end up in fourth if they lose to Munster. I have to say that Ospreys have surprised me.  Maybe the merger was just a stunt to kick the squad back into gear.

At the end of the weekend it could be
Benetton 52 +29
Edinburgh 51 +19
Scarlets 50 0 (should about +20 after Zebre)

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Post by wayne on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 10:31 am

Ospreys up to 4th and only 2pts behind Connacht.  If Blues beat Connacht they could end up in fourth if they lose to Munster. I have to say that Ospreys have surprised me.  Maybe the merger was just a stunt to kick the squad back into gear.

Brendan, I thought your OP at the time pretty ridiculous, if you bothered to look at the opening 8 or 9 games when we had basically our first choice squad available (even though in some of the games we at different times rested some very influential players) we only lost one game against the Dragons and IMO we blew that one, since the 6 Nations we've had basically the first choice squad back (minus a few influential players again AWJ and George North amongst them) I expected these sort of results, that you didn't factor in.
I just hope the Blues win today and Munster don't do an Irish stitch up in a fortnight allowing Connacht in, by knowing what they have to do in the last match.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 10:55 am

Munster will likely need to win their last game to top the conference over Glasgow, so I can't see them throwing their game against Connacht

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Post by Eejit on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 11:10 am

BigGee wrote:Munster will likely need to win their last game to top the conference over Glasgow, so I can't see them throwing their game against Connacht

These derbies can throw up surprising results though, form has a tendency to go out the window on occasion. That said, Munster are looking pretty ruthless at the moment and I wouldn't like to be the team that gets them in the playoffs.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 11:18 am

hope Treviso win against Zebre it will be just reward for their efforts and a great boost to Italian rugby to get their first ever team into the Heineken Cup on merit

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Post by BigGee on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 5:01 pm

Glasgow one win away from topping the table after an epic win in Dublin.

What a fantastic run in to the end of the season this has been and still lots to play for!

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 5:16 pm

So as it stands all 4 provinces will be able n the Heineken cup next year?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 7:44 pm

More crap from Cardiff. I wonder if Phil is going to continue to come back and keep telling me everything is fine and rosy? So here we are Phil, I said from day 1 that Mulvihill was a poor appointment. I said that Cardiff had gone backwards and hit below their weight. I was right on all accounts and you were wrong.

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Post by RiscaGame on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 9:16 pm

Awful, awful decision against Harries for Cardiff Blouse. No matter where you're from, you have to get that right.

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Post by Brendan on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 10:13 pm

wayne wrote:Ospreys up to 4th and only 2pts behind Connacht.  If Blues beat Connacht they could end up in fourth if they lose to Munster. I have to say that Ospreys have surprised me.  Maybe the merger was just a stunt to kick the squad back into gear.

Brendan, I thought your OP at the time pretty ridiculous, if you bothered to look at the opening 8 or 9 games when we had basically our first choice squad available (even though in some of the games we at different times rested some very influential players) we only lost one game against the Dragons and IMO we blew that one, since the 6 Nations we've had basically the first choice squad back (minus a few influential players again AWJ and George North amongst them) I expected these sort of results, that you didn't factor in.
I just hope the Blues win today and Munster don't do an Irish stitch up in a fortnight allowing Connacht in, by knowing what they have to do in the last match.

Wayne to be fair when I started this thread Ospreys had lost 6 in a row in all competitions and Blues were doing very well. There also was all the merger talk so I don't think I was alone I thinking they had imploded. They seem to have circled the wagons and are now the Top Welsh Team.

Every team has injuries which just need to be dealt with. The mindset of the Ospreys seems to have changed. They have a home playoff in their own hands now for the Champions Cup. A win and they are at home for it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 11:31 pm

If you look at the Ospreys team then it’s no surprise they go to the bottom clubs and win. Truth is they’re shocking.

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Post by wayne on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 10:19 am

Brendan wrote:
wayne wrote:Ospreys up to 4th and only 2pts behind Connacht.  If Blues beat Connacht they could end up in fourth if they lose to Munster. I have to say that Ospreys have surprised me.  Maybe the merger was just a stunt to kick the squad back into gear.

Brendan, I thought your OP at the time pretty ridiculous, if you bothered to look at the opening 8 or 9 games when we had basically our first choice squad available (even though in some of the games we at different times rested some very influential players) we only lost one game against the Dragons and IMO we blew that one, since the 6 Nations we've had basically the first choice squad back (minus a few influential players again AWJ and George North amongst them) I expected these sort of results, that you didn't factor in.
I just hope the Blues win today and Munster don't do an Irish stitch up in a fortnight allowing Connacht in, by knowing what they have to do in the last match.

Wayne to be fair when I started this thread Ospreys had lost 6 in a row in all competitions and Blues were doing very well.  There also was all the merger talk so I don't think I was alone I thinking they had imploded.  They seem to have circled the wagons and are now the Top Welsh Team.

Every team has injuries which just need to be dealt with.  The mindset of the Ospreys seems to have changed. They have a home playoff in their own hands now for the Champions Cup. A win and they are at home for it.

Brendan, you need to look a bit further than just plain results, your evaluation of us had nothing to do with how the Blues were doing, you put down that in all succeeding matches we would only get 7 or 8 points, as I said you would have to look at the teams we put out at the start of the season, as basically they would all be back. Let me finally add I'm responding to you because you seem decent enough, some others are not worth the time.

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Post by Kingshu on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 11:19 am

Intrested to see if Ospreys fans think they can get back to being at or near the top of the league agian next season? Personally while there are great players Im not sure on the squad or coaching.
Would be nice to see them back, but im really hoping Zebre, Dragons and Kings make a big improvement

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Post by wayne on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 1:04 pm

Kingshu wrote:Intrested to see if Ospreys fans think they can get back to being at or near the top of the league agian next season? Personally while there are great players Im not sure on the squad or coaching.
Would be nice to see them back, but im really hoping Zebre, Dragons and Kings make a big improvement

Kingshu, I know some or basically all Ulster supporters on here have no time for Clarkie, personally the first thing he did when becoming head coach was to stop the stupid ploy of Rhodri Jones pretending to be a tight head prop, this was first orchestrated by Gatland with assistance from the then Scarlets Coach and was followed through by our then Head Coach Tandy, many on our Forum, myself included were calling for this from when he joined us, apart from the 2 major signings of Aled Davies and Scott Williams, and don't forget we also lost Biggar and Webby, Scott Williams has also missed out on a lot of this seaon due to injury, Clarkie has had to deal with Tandy's squad, nobody on our forum has expected much of an improvement this season on last, but an improvement there has been.
Apparently we have 23 players out of contract at the end of this season and the talk is that 7 or 8 are being released or are leaving Scott Baldwin is one of them, we know the limitations of our team when the top 6 or 7 are missing, this apparently is being addressed, there are too many journeymen.
We had (Season Ticket holders) a Q&A session with Clarkie, Millward (M.D) and 2 of our Directors at the time of the furore over the so called merger (in actual fact the Scarlets wanted it to be a takeover) and many things were discussed including our future viability, everything said from what most of us can understand has been followed through.
As I told Brendan, we in the first 8 or 9 matches when our first team was available we lost only one, this was to the Dragons, we did lose another one in a hammering when these top players were available to Munster, we had decided to rest all our Internationals for this game for the sake of Team Wales (go and have a look at the same squad members for the 3 other Regions for that weeks games) we realise that the pinnacle of Rugby in Wales is the Internationals and help accordingly. This was why I expected us to do far better at this stage of the season than Brendan envisaged, even then we've missed AWJ and George North, hopefully one or both could be available for the Cardiff game
Obviously the opinion on Clarkie is still open to question, at least next season he will not have the same leeway as this, even though he's done better in this season than Tandy has done previously, hopefully a few hardened NWQ will be coming in for when the best are not available.
So yes I'm more optimistic for next season than this, especially if Clarkie and Co do a good recruiting job, some hopefully done and even better to come.

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Post by miaow on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 2:39 pm

Zebre beat Benneton, Glasgow beat Edinburgh, and the Scarlets go on to win the most improbable Pro14 imaginable... Whistle

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Post by VinceWLB on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 2:48 pm

miaow wrote:Zebre beat Benneton, Glasgow beat Edinburgh, and the Scarlets go on to win the most improbable Pro14 imaginable... Whistle

This is not so improbable actually.. Benetton are a bunch of chokers that don't know how to keep a lead in a game and Cockers has played his 1st XV into the ground.

I was going to say Zebre has nothing to play for though but if they win they jump over Kings and Dragons in the overall ranking.

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Post by miaow on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 3:01 pm

Zebre looked shocking against a shocking Scarlets performance last night. Admittedly a few players were rested for what seems to be the game they're focusing on- Pallazanni and Padavanni were rare shining lights - but I'd be amazed if fellow Azzurri players are desperately trying to deny a play off place to their contemporaries 6 months out for a RWC.

More than that, the Scarlets should be kicking themselves for capitulating against Edinburgh. That result alone - and you could literally pick out any of several from the Ospreys, Blues, Treviso away - was not only very, very winnable, but would have put them in control of their own destiny and would at least have given them a QF game (whch they would likely lose) at the end of a disappointing season. Now they're barely clinging on to the hope of Europe.

In all reality, the Scarlets don't deserve to be in the play offs. With refereeing decisions that have gone against them I think they deserve Heineken Cup rugby next year and I'm hopeful Glasgow will help out there as there's enough motivation for them to beat Edinburgh for their own success in the league. But if the Scarlets did make the play-offs, they'd get absolutely thumped. Cannot see them scoring 4 past Dragons, and I think they'll struggle to beat the Blues or the Ospreys if they do nick in to 4th spot and have a play-off for Europe. In fact, I'd make the Blues favourites for that, and the Ospreys evens, if that does happen.

I can see Leinster or Munster winning this personally. Fair play to Treviso, glad to see their recovery is well under way now after 6 years of stopping the rot. Do think they've been helped out by teams - like Leinster last week - playing their reserves against them, but so be it, they're a good team in their own right.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 6:03 pm

Ospreys’ underperformance has been highly visible to those not living under a rock. Most of the games I’ve seen them play have been riddled with daft play and mistakes, a sign of a poorly coached team. Keeping hold of ‘Clarkie’ is signing your own death warrant. If you want to move forward then recruit a new coach, as well as an additional 9 and 10.

Scarlets should improve next season with absentees returning. Dragons still a write off, probably. Cardiff continuing to underperform despite having a strong squad. Their poor coach continues to beg welsh internationals to join his vision whilst proclaiming that they’re the best team in Wales.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Apr 2019, 11:13 am

IRISH LEAGUE TABLE
Leinster 18(4) +53
Munster 15(3) +58
Connacht 11(2) -12
Ulster 5(1) -99

WELSH LEAGUE TABLE
Blues 18(4) +55
Ospreys 15(3) +21
Scarlets 9(2) -48
Dragons 5(1) -28

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Apr 2019, 11:16 am

I think Ospreys while have had a poor run are still in pole position to be top Welsh team top the Welsh league

Dragons have been hard to rack scores up against which is improvement on top of their win.

Ulster have paid the price for two weak teams sent out. If Connacht hadn't collapsed in Dublin the Top three would be lot tighter

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Apr 2019, 11:20 am

wayne wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Intrested to see if Ospreys fans think they can get back to being at or near the top of the league agian next season? Personally while there are great players Im not sure on the squad or coaching.
Would be nice to see them back, but im really hoping Zebre, Dragons and Kings make a big improvement

Kingshu, I know some or basically all Ulster supporters on here have no time for Clarkie, personally the first thing he did when becoming head coach was to stop the stupid ploy of Rhodri Jones pretending to be a tight head prop, this was first orchestrated by Gatland with assistance from the then Scarlets Coach and was followed through by our then Head Coach Tandy, many on our Forum, myself included were calling for this from when he joined us, apart from the 2 major signings of Aled Davies and Scott Williams, and don't forget we also lost Biggar and Webby, Scott Williams has also missed out on a lot of this seaon due to injury, Clarkie has had to deal with Tandy's squad, nobody on our forum has expected much of an improvement this season on last, but an improvement there has been.
Apparently we have 23 players out of contract at the end of this season and the talk is that 7 or 8 are being released or are leaving Scott Baldwin is one of them, we know the limitations of our team when the top 6 or 7 are missing, this apparently is being addressed, there are too many journeymen.
We had (Season Ticket holders) a Q&A session with Clarkie, Millward (M.D) and 2 of our Directors at the time of the furore over the so called merger (in actual fact the Scarlets wanted it to be a takeover) and many things were discussed including our future viability, everything said from what most of us can understand has been followed through.
As I told Brendan, we in the first 8 or 9 matches when our first team was available we lost only one, this was to the Dragons, we did lose another one in a hammering when these top players were available to Munster, we had decided to rest all our Internationals for this game for the sake of Team Wales (go and have a look at the same squad members for the 3 other Regions for that weeks games) we realise that the pinnacle of Rugby in Wales is the Internationals and help accordingly. This was why I expected us to do far better at this stage of the season than Brendan envisaged, even then we've missed AWJ and George North, hopefully one or both could be available for the Cardiff game
Obviously the opinion on Clarkie is still open to question, at least next season he will not have the same leeway as this, even though he's done better in this season than Tandy has done previously, hopefully a few hardened NWQ will be coming in for when the best are not available.
So yes I'm more optimistic for next season than this, especially if Clarkie and Co do a good recruiting job, some hopefully done and even better to come.    

Ospreys have done well for a bad season and I think a home playoff for the Champions Cup is good reward when you consider that they lost the half backs. I think next year with the right players they will be pushing again. I shows the high standards they have set that 4th will be disappointing.

Blues have struggled to keep scores out so I think Ospreys will win

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 24 Apr 2019, 1:08 pm

The staggerred kick off times this weekend in the pro14 will mean that some teams will know exactly what they have to do to make play offs / europe etc

Just another in the long line of logistical impossibilities that this farce of a league faces.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 24 Apr 2019, 1:31 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:The staggerred kick off times this weekend in the pro14 will mean that some teams will know exactly what they have to do to make play offs / europe etc

Just another in the long line of logistical impossibilities that this farce of a league faces.

I guess the 6Ns is a farce too Rolling Eyes

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Post by Brendan on Wed 24 Apr 2019, 8:30 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:The staggerred kick off times this weekend in the pro14 will mean that some teams will know exactly what they have to do to make play offs / europe etc

Just another in the long line of logistical impossibilities that this farce of a league faces.

Leinster have known for a while.  If you win or lose enough games it isn't a problem

I think you over estimate what's up for grabs.

15:00 Dragons v Scarlets, Zebre v Benetton - Scarlets must get a TBP win and hope Benetton and Edinburgh don't.  So Scarlets are chasing a TBP win regardless so not affected.  Benetton are slightly but they will aim for a TBP win to be sure so not much.
16:30 Cheetahs v Kings - doesn't matter, if one of the other bottom teams win then maybe Kings have a slight advantage
17:15 Blues v Ospreys, Ulster v Leinster - Wales winner takes all and gets the home 4th place playoff, not affected. Ireland only pride.
19:35 Glasgow v Edinburgh, Munster v Connacht - Edinburgh will know what they need, win by over 10pts the margin Benetton won by if they only got 4pts. If they got 5pts and so did Scarlets they need a TBP or a non TBP but win by over 22points more than Scarlets did (which would Most likely be a TBP). Munster v Connacht will see Munster pick up 5 points to a disinterested Connacht team. That means Glasgow need to win as they have a worse points difference.  So in Scotland both teams must win.

So who has the advantage exactly.

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Post by BigGee on Wed 24 Apr 2019, 9:34 pm

I think the main point here is that leagues are won over a season, not in one game at the end of it.

Pretty much all the teams would be in a much better situation if they had won games that they should have.

My team Glasgow should never have lost to Southern Kings and if they had not, then our semi would already be assured as well.

Co-incidently though, that loss has not done us any harm as having to work hard for our home semi has kept us in the game this year and will work in our favour should we eventually make it.

There are not really any advantages over the whole season, you have to make your own luck.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:32 am

Brendan wrote:

15:00 Dragons v Scarlets, Zebre v Benetton - Scarlets must get a TBP win and hope Benetton and Edinburgh don't.  So Scarlets are chasing a TBP win regardless so not affected.  Benetton are slightly but they will aim for a TBP win to be sure so not much.
.

Do you not understand that this is an advantage for the teams playing later? The Scarlets will be under huge pressure to get that 5 points right from the off. If the Benetton and Edinburgh games kicked off at the same time they would all be in the mix, not knowing what they have to do - and would all go flat out. As it is that will now not happen.

How can you not understand this?

Why do you think competent tournaments have all games kick off at the same time on the last weekend?

And before you bring up the six nations - yes it's pretty rubbish that teams get to play different amount of home games to others and kick off at different times - but that's blazer run Union competitions for you.

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:47 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

15:00 Dragons v Scarlets, Zebre v Benetton - Scarlets must get a TBP win and hope Benetton and Edinburgh don't.  So Scarlets are chasing a TBP win regardless so not affected.  Benetton are slightly but they will aim for a TBP win to be sure so not much.
.

Do you not understand that this is an advantage for the teams playing later? The Scarlets will be under huge pressure to get that 5 points right from the off. If the Benetton and Edinburgh games kicked off at the same time they would all be in the mix, not knowing what they have to do - and would all go flat out. As it is that will now not happen.

How can you not understand this?

Why do you think competent tournaments have all games kick off at the same time on the last weekend?

And before you bring up the six nations - yes it's pretty rubbish that teams get to play different amount of home games to others and kick off at different times - but that's blazer run Union competitions for you.

Well then have a word with the regions who want a big pay day from playing at the Principality

How can you not understand that Scarlets would be under pressure to get 5 points if the games kicked off at the same time, Benetton are under pressure to get 5 points too to keep Edinburgh at bay so seems everyone else gets that except you and your buddies


Last edited by marty2086 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by BigGee on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:49 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

15:00 Dragons v Scarlets, Zebre v Benetton - Scarlets must get a TBP win and hope Benetton and Edinburgh don't.  So Scarlets are chasing a TBP win regardless so not affected.  Benetton are slightly but they will aim for a TBP win to be sure so not much.
.

Do you not understand that this is an advantage for the teams playing later? The Scarlets will be under huge pressure to get that 5 points right from the off. If the Benetton and Edinburgh games kicked off at the same time they would all be in the mix, not knowing what they have to do - and would all go flat out. As it is that will now not happen.

How can you not understand this?

Why do you think competent tournaments have all games kick off at the same time on the last weekend?

And before you bring up the six nations - yes it's pretty rubbish that teams get to play different amount of home games to others and kick off at different times - but that's blazer run Union competitions for you.

It is not Blazer run rugby, it is commercially run rugby.

TV pays the bills, so they want their money's worth.

Yes in theory some teams might have some slight advantage by playing last, or they may be simply playing out a dead rubber but they have put themselves in that position over the rest of the season.

Judgement day has been a fantastic addition to the Welsh rugby calendar and 50,000 are going to turn up to watch games in a league that they allegedly don't like! 10,000 will be in Glasgow, our biggest crowd of the season. I am sure the Italian game will be pretty packed out as well.

There are massive benefits to this format of league rugby and as it is an international league, can't really be compared to a purely national one, as in England or France.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:53 am

The Scarlets could always have taken the novel approach of winning more games earlier in the season, but they didn't, due to the time of day they kicked off I assume?

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:53 am

[quote="BigGee"]
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Brendan wrote:

15:00 Dragons v Scarlets, Zebre v Benetton - Scarlets must get a TBP win and hope Benetton and Edinburgh don't.  So Scarlets are chasing a TBP win regardless so not affected.  Benetton are slightly but they will aim for a TBP win to be sure so not much.
.

Do you not understand that this is an advantage for the teams playing later? The Scarlets will be under huge pressure to get that 5 points right from the off. If the Benetton and Edinburgh games kicked off at the same time they would all be in the mix, not knowing what they have to do - and would all go flat out. As it is that will now not happen.

How can you not understand this?

Why do you think competent tournaments have all games kick off at the same time on the last weekend?

And before you bring up the six nations - yes it's pretty rubbish that teams get to play different amount of home games to others and kick off at different times - but that's blazer run Union competitions for you.

It is not Blazer run rugby, it is commercially run rugby.

TV pays the bills, so they want their money's worth.

Yes in theory some teams might have some slight advantage by playing last, or they may be simply playing out a dead rubber but they have put themselves in that position over the rest of the season.

Judgement day has been a fantastic addition to the Welsh rugby calendar and 50,000 are going to turn up to watch games in a league that they allegedly don't like! 10,000 will be in Glasgow, our biggest crowd of the season. I am sure the Italian game will be pretty packed out as well.

The blame seems to be placed at the door of PS except for the fact that the same thing happened last year BEFORE Premier were involved. The only real differences being the addition of the SA teams and the addition of Judgement Day to the final day. Which one would require different kick off times though? Whistle

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 9:57 am

BamBam wrote:The Scarlets could always have taken the novel approach of winning more games earlier in the season, but they didn't, due to the time of day they kicked off I assume?

All the blazers fault for allowing Ulster to play half their home games at the same time on a Friday night no doubt, I mean it's not like Scarlets got to play the same number of home games at the same time on Saturday nights Whistle

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Post by BigGee on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:03 am

Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


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Post by Brendan on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:06 am

So Scarlets and Benetton kick off at the same time knowing they must win with a TBP to have it in their own hands. If they both do that Edinburgh are out unless they get a TBP in which case Glasgow would be away to Leinster in the semis which they won't want.

It's not like Edinburgh will be playing a disinterested Glasgow who will let them get a clean sweep for the year over them. Glasgow need to win to be sure of an easier route to the final

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Post by marty2086 on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:09 am

BigGee wrote:Premier Sports also committed to showing every game in the league live.

This again is a big deal in a multi national league, as understandably different groups of fans are going to want to see their own teams play in real time and un-edited.

If it was a purely commercial decision based on a limited amounted of games being shown live, as in other televised rugby formats, some teams would hardly ever get a look in.

This kind of deal suits the league and was a good part of the reason why it was chosen, it also suits Premier Sports, as they are a growing franchise who have schedules to fill up.

That is the package we have got and to me it has a lot more pluses than minus


Except Premier Sports aren't the host broadcaster for SA or Ireland so blaming them is a bit foolish

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Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 25 Apr 2019, 10:13 am

Make it fair it all games kick of at the same team - so 4 teams on the pitch in Cardiff at the same time.

This staggered kick of schedule is, in large part, due to Wales insisting on the big day in the Millenium
Scarlets and Treviso have to go out and aim for a bonus point win - that would be no different if all games kicked off at the same time

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