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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 03 Apr 2019, 11:08 am

First topic message reminder :

Table
England 2pts (+2.08nrr)
Afghanistan
Australia
Bangladesh
India
New Zealand
Pakistan
Sri Lanka
West Indies
South Africa 0pts (-2.08 nrr)


Pool Fixtures

Thu, May 30 
10:30 England vs South Africa  (The Oval)

Fri, May 31 
10:30 West Indies vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Sat, Jun 1 
10:30 New Zealand vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs Australia (Bristol)

Sun, Jun 2 
10:30 South Africa vs Bangladesh (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 3 
10:30 England vs Pakistan (Trent Bridge)

Tue, Jun 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Sri Lanka (Cardiff)

Wed, Jun 5 
10:30 South Africa vs India (Southampton)
13:30 Bangladesh vs New Zealand (The Oval)

Thu, Jun 6 
10:30 Australia vs West Indies (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 7 
10:30 Pakistan vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Sat, Jun 8 
10:30 England vs Bangladesh (Cardiff)
13:30 Afghanistan vs New Zealand (Taunton)

Sun, Jun 9 
10:30 Australia vs India (The Oval)

Mon, Jun 10 
10:30 South Africa vs West Indies (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 11 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Sri Lanka (Bristol)

Wed, Jun 12 
10:30 Australia vs Pakistan (Taunton)

Thu, Jun 13 
10:30 India vs New Zealand (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 14 
10:30 England vs West Indies (Southampton)

Sat, Jun 15 
10:30 Australia vs Sri Lanka (The Oval)
13:30 Afghanistan vs South Africa (Cardiff)

Sun, Jun 16 
10:30 India vs Pakistan (Old Trafford)

Mon, Jun 17 
10:30 Bangladesh vs West Indies (Taunton)

Tue, Jun 18 
10:30 England vs Afghanistan (Old Trafford)

Wed, Jun 19 
10:30 New Zealand vs South Africa (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 20 
10:30 Australia vs Bangladesh (Trent Bridge)

Fri, Jun 21 
10:30 England vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)

Sat, Jun 22 
10:30 Afghanistan vs India (Southampton)
13:30 New Zealand vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Sun, Jun 23 
10:30 Pakistan vs South Africa (Lord’s)

Mon, Jun 24 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Bangladesh (Southampton)

Tue, Jun 25 
10:30 England vs Australia (Lord’s)

Wed, Jun 26 
10:30 New Zealand vs Pakistan (Edgbaston)

Thu, Jun 27 
10:30 India vs West Indies (Old Trafford)

Fri, Jun 28 
10:30 South Africa vs Sri Lanka (Edgbaston)

Sat, Jun 29 
10:30 Afghanistan vs Pakistan (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs New Zealand (Lord’s)

Sun, Jun 30 
10:30 England vs India (Edgbaston)

Mon, Jul 1 
10:30 Sri Lanka vs West Indies (Riverside Ground)

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow


Last edited by LondonTiger on Fri 31 May 2019, 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by jimbohammers on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:22 am

Im a fan of the salute, he's a good bowler.

How many overs are needed for a result? 10 a side?

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:27 am

Minimum of 20 overs for each innings. Can't have anything less than a T20 game.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:27 am

jimbohammers wrote:Im a fan of the salute, he's a good bowler.

How many overs are needed for a result? 10 a side?
 20 overs.

My understanding is that Cotterell is still a serving member of the Jamaican Defence Force and the salute is made to his commanding officer for allowing him to play.

https://www.crictracker.com/stuart-law-explains-why-sheldon-cottrell-has-a-special-way-of-celebrating-wickets/

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Post by jimbohammers on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:44 am

Cheers guys.

Yeah i saw that as well LT. Quite a cool story

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Post by VTR on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:49 am

I did know the reason, just can't stand seeing it so often. Maybe do it if he takes a five for or something. Personal taste I suppose, some people probably love it. Not a big issue in the grand scheme anyway, actually a shame this is badly rain affected at best, as could have been a good match

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Im a fan of the salute, he's a good bowler.

How many overs are needed for a result? 10 a side?
 20 overs.

My understanding is that Cotterell is still a serving member of the Jamaican Defence Force and the salute is made to his commanding officer for allowing him to play.

https://www.crictracker.com/stuart-law-explains-why-sheldon-cottrell-has-a-special-way-of-celebrating-wickets/

Something about Dhonis gloves Whistle

Its not looking great for completing sadly. Really bad luck for the Windies, this makes qualification a real long shot from a game they would probably have won. Their NRR will show they have been a better side than their points total will suggest. Unless some of the top 4 get their games rained off too we could quickly end up with qualification being a genuine phony war. Sad for the tournament.
SL/Bang could be affected tomorrow too, probably enough play for a result but makes it a bit of a lottery.
Forecast for Pakistan Aus also awful ... as it stands there might be no play at all. Thats a huge shame as its a big game, it really would blow things open if Pakistan win.
Some rain forecast for India New Zealand too ...both of those sides currently have little to worry about even if they do want to lay down a marker.
Its not till Friday and England West Indies that we will most likely get a full game. Very sad.





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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:56 am

TMS at the moment really getting heavy ...black West Indian talking to two white south africans about transformation and selections... just as well they dont have Alan Partidge Agnew on.

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 12:17 pm

VTR wrote:Thanks for making the post I wasn't ever going to make KP Fan. Think you need to look at the utter garbage you spout at times before calling out others.

Anyway, back in the real world of actual cricket, we could be looking at three or four days of rain ruined/DLS lottery games

Definition of Garbage= "If you have an opinion on cricket even marginally different than mine, I will declare it as garbage"
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 12:26 pm

KP_fan wrote:
VTR wrote:Thanks for making the post I wasn't ever going to make KP Fan. Think you need to look at the utter garbage you spout at times before calling out others.

Anyway, back in the real world of actual cricket, we could be looking at three or four days of rain ruined/DLS lottery games

Definition of Garbage= "If you have an opinion on cricket even marginally different than mine, I will declare it as garbage"
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Dont make me pull out the tipping competition table

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Post by VTR on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 12:41 pm

Nope, am open to different opinions. Am not open to people like you putting words into my mouth. Stick to posting your own thoughts, not guessing those of others.

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 1:49 pm

Almost certain now that this game will be called off before it reaches a conclusion. Shame for the Windies, they would have fancied taking two points, especially after the good start they made today.

Looks like New Zealand have got a comfortable hold on the final semi-final place.

And we've *still* got four weeks until the semi-finals.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 2:11 pm

Christ that long...its going to feel like a real slog

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Post by VTR on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 2:22 pm

I just hope we don't end up with too many dead rubbers, then it could feel overlong. And at this stage it's hard to get a feel of who is doing well, as if you take NZ for example they look good at the moment but have played the two worst teams who everyone will be expecting to beat, if rain doesn't ruin the chance for them!

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 3:14 pm

Apparently there is a chance of play before too long and the possibility of a complete game. Slightest sniff of any more rain will end that sadly.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 4:12 pm

...and the drizzle is back just when they would've took the covers off. Just give it up guys!

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Post by Duty281 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 4:40 pm

Game abandoned. 99.99% sure that South Africa are eliminated from the tournament - even a freak run of five straight wins will only give them 11 points, which isn't likely to be enough.

Tomorrow's game also likely to be a washout. Oh dear, this World Cup isn't going very well, is it?

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Post by VTR on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 4:45 pm

Yeah not great so far. It was threatening to spark into life with a run of decent looking fixtures, which have not really worked out with Australia's pretty odd run chase yesterday then this washout today

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 4:54 pm

Duty281 wrote:Game abandoned. 99.99% sure that South Africa are eliminated from the tournament - even a freak run of five straight wins will only give them 11 points, which isn't likely to be enough.

Tomorrow's game also likely to be a washout. Oh dear, this World Cup isn't going very well, is it?

I get the sense the semi finals and final are going to feel more like a relief than a spectacle at this rate...
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 5:08 pm

Apparently its had more close games already than the entire last world cup did ( I forget the metric they used but roughly equivelant to our tipping competitions close). Thats partly because they let less junk teams in of course.
So yeah it's looking like it will fizzle into a very long drawn out group phase just to send the 4 teams most of us guessed to the semis.
But then the same happened in the last two world cups ( minus england) with an entirely predictable group getting to the knock outs.

At least we are seeing proper bowlers rewarded rather than medium Pacers and chuckers. The resurgence of fast bowling makes the game more exciting to watch even if it's not close.
Crowds have been good too and very vocal with every nation well supported rather than the usual partisan local crowds and most fixtures being played to empty grounds.

The rain is the big problem though. If this had been last summer we would be moaning about the heat, and maybe those fast bowlers wouldn't make it past 4 overs! .

I've actually been more interested in it than I thought I would be. I dont think it's been a bad one yet but we do need a real last over classic to fire it up. And the slow March of the extended group phase could really grate.

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Post by king_carlos on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 5:28 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Game abandoned. 99.99% sure that South Africa are eliminated from the tournament - even a freak run of five straight wins will only give them 11 points, which isn't likely to be enough.

Tomorrow's game also likely to be a washout. Oh dear, this World Cup isn't going very well, is it?

I get the sense the semi finals and final are going to feel more like a relief than a spectacle at this rate...
Having sides play games closer together would have forced teams to rotate more hence testing the strength in depth of squads as well as the first XI during the round robin stage.

Would have been more difficult to with travel arrangements but there is a definite feeling that this schedule is going to drag some of the fun out of the World Cup.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 6:40 pm

SA cant feel hard done by on the rain at 2 down. Windies had a better chance of making the 4 already and must've been favourites in this game. Now like Pakistan they've lost one of their more probable points. If it were the top teams being rained off then this would really be adding some spice ...instead it's the next best teams suffering.

There was a really good interview with Tymal Mills ( or 2017s Jofra Archer) about his views on formats. Hes very much of the opinion that every means about it then turns up anyway. IPL and CPL being cases in point. It does seem theres a lot of naysayers to this ( especially around Ireland who can hardly beat an egg nowadays ) but more are watching than ever. Sent the studio in meltdown when he tried a Brexit metaphor mind.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 7:08 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Going back to Zampa the statement is that he has hand warmers in his pockets and has done for every game. It's a plausible reason.

This isnt like when Atherton was caught bang to rights with sand.

In terms of Kholi...yes the Aussies cant complain about booing given their history ( I'm remembering the injured Simon Jones being spat on) but you wont make a positive change to a global culture using the " well they started it" approach.
It's very big of him and absolutely the spirit of the sport. He wants to play the sport on the field I a competitive fair but gentile way. Thats not a bad thing

Kohli got such pathetic treatment in Australia after Santpapergate. So I don't think the Australian public or media is changing all that well. So its not just about you started it all, but that you continue to behave like that and want others to behave otherwise. In any case, Virat did what he did not because of anyone from Australia forcing him to do so, but I think he has no business getting into all that. The Australians did what they did, leave them alone to deal with it.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 7:09 pm

I wouldn't boo Smith and Warner, but I wouldn't go stopping anyone either, as I can see a case for both, and I have taken my call, but think the other side also has an equally valid case.

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Post by msp83 on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 7:13 pm

Anyways back to the non-game today. Who would be more disappointed? South Africa would be glad to get of the mark! But the struggling SA was there for the taking as far as the WI is concerned. West Indies indeed is the most entertaining team of this World Cup and I would want to go all the way. Hope they would have a solid game against the New Zealanders who also I really like as a team, but I hope the West Indies would make it fighting through. The game between the 2 could be a very interesting one. And any of India, England and Australia can slip up, and with West Indies and NZ breathing down, the top 3 would do well to stay focused...

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 8:07 pm

-I think it wasn't a bad result for WI to take a point off a higher ranked side.....as we saw them against Aus......after having a top side down, they still manged to lose it.

Similarly  it was better for Lanka to have a rained-off game than Pak

-Now WI has not lost against 2 out of 3 higher ranked sides....and SA is almost out of the way

Odds would be heavily favor of WI vs the "weak-3" Afg, Lanka and BD...all of whom they still have to play....so WI in addition need  to scalp one of "Big-3" vs Ind, NZ or Eng

Even a rain-off in those 3 big games, and depending on how many games are rained off leave WI with a chance.

-btw NZ that look very attractive with 3 out of 3 have merely beaten the "weak-3"....&  realistically they are behind WI who have a win and a half ( SA and Pak) that NZ cannot take for granted to win.

Its still very wide open for all but SA & Afg......& rain only makes the uncertainty more glorious.....just like the 1992 world cup
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 8:16 pm

KPF you're the only person in the world who still thinks that SA at 29/2 are better than the West Indies and that they'd be happy with a point.

Even Faf admitted they were glad it got fully rained off!

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Post by KP_fan on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 8:48 pm

Gooseberry wrote:KPF you're the only person in the world who still thinks that SA at 29/2 are better than the West Indies and that they'd be happy with a point.

I didn't say that....you are creating a straw-man argument Wink

I think it wasn't a bad result for WI to take a point off a higher ranked side...is actually what I said.

My argument is based on what I saw that from having Aus 26-2, 38-4 and 79-5.....WI went on to lose vs Aus....and on many occasions top sides recuperate from 2 down early and go on to win.

Hence plucking top-2 wickets only against a top side means little.......it's trying to extrapolate 95% result based on 5% data.....and while WI themselves and many others ( including me) believe WI could have won.......taking a point off SA is not entirely a bad result for them for reasons detailed in that post
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Post by Pal Joey on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 8:53 pm

This is most probably the most entertaining thread on these boards. Good arguments from both sides. Smile
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Post by VTR on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 9:06 pm

We will never know what might have happened. If it had been reduced to a T20 or slightly longer you'd think that would favour the Windies. If anyone gets bored when tomorrow's match is rained off, go and read the YouTube comments on the ICC highlights from today's match. Eye opening stuff!

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 10:35 pm

What would Faf du Plesis know right!

Fact is if WI are going to make the top 4 they have to win more games. Its going to be easier to do that against the worst sides. In drawing against a weak one they have to beat the good ones. That makes qualification harder.

The argument that SA are a good side because of the world rankings is absolute nonsense.
The stuff added about the WI previous games is based on a stupidly small sample, and ignores that SA managed to loose from better positions themselves.

You'd have a but more credibility if you didn't change your mind mid argument, applied consistent logic, and would just admit you were horribly wrong about SA! We all over estimated them coming into this tournament.


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Post by Galted on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 10:51 pm

Gooseberry wrote:What would Faf du Plesis know right!

Fact is if WI are going to make the top 4 they have to win more games. Its going to be easier to do that against the worst sides. In drawing against a weak one they have to beat the good ones. That makes qualification harder.

The argument that SA are a good side because of the world rankings is absolute nonsense.
The stuff added about the WI previous games is based on a stupidly small sample, and ignores that SA managed to loose from better positions themselves.

You'd have a but more credibility if you didn't change your mind mid argument, applied consistent logic, and would just admit you were horribly wrong about SA! We all over estimated them coming into this tournament.


Faf said it that they were worried about a reduced overs match with the start they'd had, which would almost certainly have seen WI win.

But a full 50 overs game, anything can happen from 29/2. SA might not be contenders but they do have decent players and the WI are not suddenly indestructible, as things stand they've only beaten Pakistan who can lose to anyone when they're having an off day.
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 10 Jun 2019, 11:12 pm

Youre missing the point Galted ....its not that WI were guaranteed to win, its that they needed to win this. And were more likely to win it from that position had the game been completed.
The 1 point does not suit them, and was not is the most likely outcome from the position at the time.
Same goes with Pakistan, we all agree they were more likely to have won that and the point from their rained off game will be seen as one lost.

The rain so far has made it less likely that anyone outside the top 4 wont make it to the semis.


More than anything I'm just annoyed at KPFs twisted logic and not being willing to admit that he was dead wrong about SA and teh lack of Surrey games to laugh at Whistle

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 7:10 am

...anyway shifting topics on to today Bangaldesh vs Sri Lanka fairlyblow key game on paper but an intriguing contest.

Oh wait it's raining! Theres a chance of some play in the afternoon but NR is the most likely result. Sigh.

Bangaldesh surely would've fancied this one and taking just a point makes qualification extremely difficult for them.

If there is a reduced overs game ( not looking likely!) That might suit Sri lanaka by adding in some more elements of luck and the chances of one individual performance defining the game. They also really need a win and Bangladesh would be one of the few teams youd give them a chance against.




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Post by eirebilly on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 8:08 am

The rain off is a real shame for Bangladesh, they would have really fancied their chances against Sri Lanka. I know its a fairly tight scheduling but surely the organisers can fit in a couple of rained off games on other days as double headers. The crowds may not be the same but it would be good for the competition.

I also massively over-rated SA prior to this tournament and thought they would be a cert for the finals but they really have just not turned up.

On David Warner, he really is a top batsman but is struggling badly (not sure where or how he lost his form) and after running Finch out and pretty much costing the Aussies a very good chance of beating India, his position may come under pressure.

I agree with msp that VK was better off not trying to be politically correct in telling the Indian supporters not to boo Smith (not that I like or condone booing) and was better off not getting involved at all.

On Cotterell's salute, I am not a fan of it at all. It really does look stupid and annoying. I also think he will damage his knee one day slamming it down like that.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 8:44 am

eirebilly wrote:The rain off is a real shame for Bangladesh, they would have really fancied their chances against Sri Lanka. I know its a fairly tight scheduling but surely the organisers can fit in a couple of rained off games on other days as double headers. The crowds may not be the same but it would be good for the competition.


It would be viable to get the teams to play but the logistics of everything else around the cup (including venue hire and policing) just not economic. The biggest stumbling block being broadcasters, they'd have to double up on resources to cover the possibility of concurrent games.  people moan about it being a media and TV driven format, but more people than ever around the world are following it, thats partly because the world cup is getting progressively better coverage. 
There will always be a tension between the best sporting outcome and what is economic to do. Like it or not the players want paying, they need good facilities, and the audience want to be able to sit in a comfortable ground and we like to watch / listen to it at work. 
The long monstergroup format has also taken some stick, but it does lessen the impact of rained off games when its 1 of 9 rather than 1 of 4 or 5. Noone will miss the semis just because of one or two rain affected games, that could have been the case under some previous formats. It is impacting things and robbing us of some drama (and gameplay!) but it would be worse under other formats. 

We have been very unfortunate with the amount of heavy rain days this year. Last June was incredibly hot and dry, but normally you'd expect some disruption but more in the form of on/off rain than the kind of heavy full day downpours and drizzle we have had the last couple of days. Hopefully there will be less going forward and the qualification wont be unduly affected by weather. 

The best way to get around the rain would maybe be to host it in the Midlde East.


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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 9:06 am

Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

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Post by msp83 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 9:58 am

Think Bangladesh would fancy their chances against Sri Lanka if there is a full 50 over game. Man to man, they are a superior side. Their batting is better than that of Sri Lanka, and the bowling unit, if on a flat pitch, is more or less the same. Bangladesh have better spinners and the world's best all-rounder, Sri Lankan seamers led by the fading Lasith Malinga is still a better unit than that of Bangladesh though not by a country mile. On a seaming pitch, the Lankan seamers can be slightly better, but Bangladesh do have The Fiz, and I think Nuwan Pradeep's body has yet again let him down following his overexertions against Afghanistan. If Pradeep doesn't play, then both the seam bowling units will have to be considered at par.
All these, assuming that the match would actually take place and would last the course. In a reduced over scenario, it can be anyone's game.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 10:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Game abandoned. 99.99% sure that South Africa are eliminated from the tournament - even a freak run of five straight wins will only give them 11 points, which isn't likely to be enough.

Tomorrow's game also likely to be a washout. Oh dear, this World Cup isn't going very well, is it?

I get the sense the semi finals and final are going to feel more like a relief than a spectacle at this rate...

Wouldn't be surprised if they got rained off as well!

Interesting note from Cricinfo - apparently, if a semi-final cannot be played due to rain (both on scheduled and reserve day), the team with the highest placed finish in the group phase goes through. If the same happens to the final, the trophy will be shared.

Anyway, that's a while off yet. Things look pretty glum at Bristol today.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 10:33 am

One of the early world cups apparently had 2 reserve days washed out at the Oval. 

Tomorrows game should happen based on current forecasts, but most likely rain affected. 
That may give Pakistan a slight edge, again on the principle that rain can be a leveller and that Aus are favourites to win that. Its a really big game in terms of keeping the qualification battle vibrant, if Pakistan do win it really does set up a bit of much needed drama and uncertainty over the final 4. 

A NR doesnt really suit either team, Aus would view it as a point dropped and Pakistan will likely need to beat another of the top sides.

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Post by Galted on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:01 am

guildfordbat wrote:Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

It's a bit premature calling SA a lesser team. Yes they've had a poor start but the three teams to have beaten them would all expect to beat the WI (Bangladesh having done so 3 out of 3 times in the recent Tri-nations) whereas it's hardly a stretch of the imagination for SA to beat one out of Australia and Pakistan as the WI have done.
It's also a bit of a stretch to assume the WI would have won had it been a full game as SA's start, while not very good, was hardly unrecoverable.

There also seems to be an assumption that one team will be unbeaten, the next lose only one etc. While this may happen there may also be 5 or 6 teams fighting for the top four with the big 3 dragged into it.  The likes of Butler, Bumrah or Starc being injured could have quite an impact.
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Post by KP_fan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:03 am

https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/icc-world-cup-2019-shikhar-dhawan-ruled-out-of-tournament-for-three-weeks/story-n5Wmf690s0DZFW4rj8TCFK.html

Ohh boy.....Dhawan out for 3 weeks...and it seems team management want Shreyas Iyer in his place who is already playing in Eng...it's a no brainer that KL Rahul will open
I think Iyer is a good choice...solid technique too.....and can play strokes.....he should play tests also for India one day
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:09 am

Galted wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

It's a bit premature calling SA a lesser team. Yes they've had a poor start but the three teams to have beaten them would all expect to beat the WI (Bangladesh having done so 3 out of 3 times in the recent Tri-nations) whereas it's hardly a stretch of the imagination for SA to beat one out of Australia and Pakistan as the WI have done.
It's also a bit of a stretch to assume the WI would have won had it been a full game as SA's start, while not very good, was hardly unrecoverable.

There also seems to be an assumption that one team will be unbeaten, the next lose only one etc. While this may happen there may also be 5 or 6 teams fighting for the top four with the big 3 dragged into it.  The likes of Butler, Bumrah or Starc being injured could have quite an impact.


If you're going to respond in discussions its good to actually read the previous posts and understand whats being said rather than just ramming a point down peoples throats which doesnt account for the discussion thats being had and the nuances of it.

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Post by Galted on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:11 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Galted wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

It's a bit premature calling SA a lesser team. Yes they've had a poor start but the three teams to have beaten them would all expect to beat the WI (Bangladesh having done so 3 out of 3 times in the recent Tri-nations) whereas it's hardly a stretch of the imagination for SA to beat one out of Australia and Pakistan as the WI have done.
It's also a bit of a stretch to assume the WI would have won had it been a full game as SA's start, while not very good, was hardly unrecoverable.

There also seems to be an assumption that one team will be unbeaten, the next lose only one etc. While this may happen there may also be 5 or 6 teams fighting for the top four with the big 3 dragged into it.  The likes of Butler, Bumrah or Starc being injured could have quite an impact.


If you're going to respond in discussions its good to actually read the previous posts and understand whats being said rather than just ramming a point down peoples throats which doesnt account for the discussion thats being had and the nuances of it.

Why don't you have a little tizz about it?

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:15 am

KP_fan wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/icc-world-cup-2019-shikhar-dhawan-ruled-out-of-tournament-for-three-weeks/story-n5Wmf690s0DZFW4rj8TCFK.html

Ohh boy.....Dhawan out for 3 weeks...and it seems team management want Shreyas Iyer in his place who is already playing in Eng...it's a no brainer that KL Rahul will open
I think Iyer is a good choice...solid technique too.....and can play strokes.....he should play tests also for India one day


Ooof. 

The squad depth could well be a determining factor in this world cup for sure. I think India can handle this withdrawl without being weakened much, but they do need their top order to come off. I guess this means he would be back in contention for the knock outs, and you'd fancy India to still make those. 
theres players that could have hit India a lot harder, like Bumrah.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:19 am

If a player is replaced in teh squad due to injury does that not rule them out of the whole tournament?

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:35 am

LondonTiger wrote:If a player is replaced in teh squad due to injury does that not rule them out of the whole tournament?

and who will dare tell BCCI that Very Happy
and one who does might be informed someone else is injured in 3 weeks time....and Dhawan the replacement .

I think India will absorb this injury as a minor blip.....but losing Pandya or Bumrah could be really debilitating to Indian balance.
But all sides carry this risk in this protracted format...and need to rest / nurture their key bowlers and fragile men in less important games.....as well as be careful in nets, gym & friendly football/handball drills which is where 50% injuries occur these days.
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Post by eirebilly on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:39 am

KP_fan wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/cricket/icc-world-cup-2019-shikhar-dhawan-ruled-out-of-tournament-for-three-weeks/story-n5Wmf690s0DZFW4rj8TCFK.html

Ohh boy.....Dhawan out for 3 weeks...and it seems team management want Shreyas Iyer in his place who is already playing in Eng...it's a no brainer that KL Rahul will open
I think Iyer is a good choice...solid technique too.....and can play strokes.....he should play tests also for India one day

Definitely a loss but such is the Indian batting strength in depth that it may not be felt as badly as if one of the frontline bowlers went out.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 11:59 am

Thinking back many of us thought Rashid for England would be one of the key players they couldnt easily replace. 
As it stands hes been one of the worst performers so far and leggies in general have had far less success in wicket taking than have in games over the past few years. Some of that might be the balls, pitches and quality of fast bowling being a step up.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 12:31 pm

Galted wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Galted wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

It's a bit premature calling SA a lesser team. Yes they've had a poor start but the three teams to have beaten them would all expect to beat the WI (Bangladesh having done so 3 out of 3 times in the recent Tri-nations) whereas it's hardly a stretch of the imagination for SA to beat one out of Australia and Pakistan as the WI have done.
It's also a bit of a stretch to assume the WI would have won had it been a full game as SA's start, while not very good, was hardly unrecoverable.

There also seems to be an assumption that one team will be unbeaten, the next lose only one etc. While this may happen there may also be 5 or 6 teams fighting for the top four with the big 3 dragged into it.  The likes of Butler, Bumrah or Starc being injured could have quite an impact.


If you're going to respond in discussions its good to actually read the previous posts and understand whats being said rather than just ramming a point down peoples throats which doesnt account for the discussion thats being had and the nuances of it.

Why don't you have a little tizz about it?


Cheers, goose. Good point, well made.

If people want to quibble - and it seems Galted does - I could have referred to ''perceived lesser teams''. However, it should have been clear that I was referring to SA as simply not being amongst the 4 favourite teams. It's a game of opinions and a board of opinions. If you don't like mine, fair enough - but you might be better off ignoring them than regarding them as rammed down your throat and then howling about it.

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Post by Galted on Tue 11 Jun 2019, 1:21 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Galted wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Galted wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Although it pains me to say it Wink , goose is right in his logic about the Windies' rained off game.

W I should be aiming for a semi-final place. Whilst that should be stretching for them, it's not totally unrealistic.

To achieve that aim, they will probably need a minimum of 12 points from the 9 group games. The best way for them of getting that total before yesterday was to beat one of the predicted top 4 (England, India, Australia and NZ) and defeat all the remaining 5 teams including SA. Yesterday's abandonment against SA effectively means they have dropped 1 point to one of the lesser teams.

Admittedly, 12 points isn't an automatic holy grail total. NRR and other abandonments could well come into the mix. However, no one should present yesterday's 1 point as anything other than a disappointment for the W I and even more so given the state of the game, albeit early, when called off.

It's a bit premature calling SA a lesser team. Yes they've had a poor start but the three teams to have beaten them would all expect to beat the WI (Bangladesh having done so 3 out of 3 times in the recent Tri-nations) whereas it's hardly a stretch of the imagination for SA to beat one out of Australia and Pakistan as the WI have done.
It's also a bit of a stretch to assume the WI would have won had it been a full game as SA's start, while not very good, was hardly unrecoverable.

There also seems to be an assumption that one team will be unbeaten, the next lose only one etc. While this may happen there may also be 5 or 6 teams fighting for the top four with the big 3 dragged into it.  The likes of Butler, Bumrah or Starc being injured could have quite an impact.


If you're going to respond in discussions its good to actually read the previous posts and understand whats being said rather than just ramming a point down peoples throats which doesnt account for the discussion thats being had and the nuances of it.

Why don't you have a little tizz about it?


Cheers, goose. Good point, well made.

If people want to quibble - and it seems Galted does - I could have referred to ''perceived lesser teams''. However, it should have been clear that I was referring to SA as simply not being amongst the 4 favourite teams. It's a game of opinions and a board of opinions. If you don't like mine, fair enough - but you might be better off ignoring them than regarding them as rammed down your throat and then howling about it.


Apologies if it seemed that my post was directed entirely at you, Guildford, it was directed more at several persistent notions I’ve read on this thread which I believe are ill-conceived.  I had only the one quibble with you which I was relieved to get off my chest.  I do now have another quibble with you regarding your favourable opinion of Goose’s post but I’m sure I’ll get over it.

Smile
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