New Zealand Out Half Crisis

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 16 Apr 2019, 4:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Damian McKenzie, who has not been ruled out of the rugby world cup, was seemingly Steve Hansen's back up 10 for the All Blacks. Bearing in mind that no New Zealand based back up 10 has much in the way of international experience has Hansen been guilty of putting all his eggs in one basket at 10?

Possible back up players.

Richie Mo'unga - 10 caps, mostly as sub
Brett Cameron - 1 cap
Otere Black - 0 caps, Blues 10

or

Stephen Donald - 24 caps

I think its fair to say that NZ's hopes revolve a bit around Beauden Barrett.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:54 am

He did beat his girlfriend up and pleaded guilty to it so Connacht had no choice but to terminate his contract especially given in Ireland you dont even have to be found guilty of anything you can still lose your job as was the case in the recent trial in NI. I hope he doesnt do what he did again and good to see he is doing well with the Crusaiders. He is another import though.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:14 am

We call them immigrants here, we dont have imports, imports are paid for, as you know up there. Interesting how Connacht didnt want him at 14, just after he became good enough to be a pro, how...handy.

We do all the hard work and little ol Ireland try to zap them as soon as theyre out of nappies crawling pro’s.

Shameful. Laugh

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:59 am

when you dont pay for something we call it stealing up here. Just saying. He was 17 not 14 when he mysteriously arrived in NZ on a rugby scholarship. Just like Fifeta and Frizzell.

Im glad Connacht arent recruiting 14 year olds in Fiji. To me thats much worse than offering a contract to a 23 year old.

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Post by ebop on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:12 am

The average Fijian wouldn’t be allowed to live in Ireland. Just the professional rugby ones.

There are untold numbers of Pacific Islanders that ‘mysteriously’ arrive in NZ on non-sport related school / university scholarships.

Don’t be myopic Guns.
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:05 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:when you dont pay for something we call it stealing up here. Just saying. He was 17 not 14 when he mysteriously arrived in NZ on a rugby scholarship. Just like Fifeta and Frizzell.

Im glad Connacht arent recruiting 14 year olds in Fiji. To me thats much worse than offering a contract to a 23 year old.

So you’ve evidence of recruiting then or just the same silly assumption?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:10 pm

Its well documented. Just google them.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 12:24 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Its well documented. Just google them.

Cant see it myself.

Oh I see...a scholarship to a high school. Thats recruiting a pro rugby player is it?

Love this...

‘A letter from the head of operations for Connacht submitted in court documents said that a conviction would mean the contract was withdrawn.’

So they discharge without conviction and Connacht Dump him anyway. Laugh

Be kind of ironic if he scores the try that puts Ireland out.

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Post by miaow on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:25 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its well documented. Just google them.
Oh I see...a scholarship to a high school. Thats recruiting a pro rugby player is it?

That's the usual approach regardless of nation, yes. Giving someone a scholarship based on sporting potential. Or music. Or academic etc.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 5:52 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its well documented. Just google them.

Cant see it myself.

Oh I see...a scholarship to a high school. Thats recruiting a pro rugby player is it?

Love this...

‘A letter from the head of operations for Connacht submitted in court documents said that a conviction would mean the contract was withdrawn.’

So they discharge without conviction and Connacht Dump him anyway. Laugh

Be kind of ironic if he scores the try that puts Ireland out.

He admitted to battering his girlfriend. Thats why he wasnt convicted, no? Look I believe in second chances myself but after going the recent trial in NI Irish rugby was never going to take him on.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:48 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its well documented. Just google them.
Oh I see...a scholarship to a high school. Thats recruiting a pro rugby player is it?

That's the usual approach regardless of nation, yes. Giving someone a scholarship based on sporting potential. Or music. Or academic etc.

Yes, a distinct difference. Offering a chance to improve ones chances at a career in sport, and large scale buying ready made professionals off the shelf to heavily support ones very infrastructure. We dont do the latter. The north cant survive without it.

That is the reason for consistent failure at world cup time and mediocrity at 6N time, as it was this year. Too heavy reliance on southern rugby, not enough local talent or investment despite comments I see to the contrary. That dependency is masking the true state of northern rugby.

At World Cup and 6N time the only SHers that play are usually those that couldn’t get into higher honours, I.e. Shields, Anscombe, Te’o, Aki, Maitland and a number of others. Perhaps that’s why they’re trying to recruit as young as possible and ‘hit the jackpot’. Trouble there is, the player is not yet ‘created’ and it’s highly doubtful Reece would be as good now if he’d gone with Connacht, such is the Saders player making machine.

Be interesting if Hansen goes with him this close as he did with NMS in 15, the only bolster that year


Last edited by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:54 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its well documented. Just google them.

Cant see it myself.

Oh I see...a scholarship to a high school. Thats recruiting a pro rugby player is it?

Love this...

‘A letter from the head of operations for Connacht submitted in court documents said that a conviction would mean the contract was withdrawn.’

So they discharge without conviction and Connacht Dump him anyway. Laugh

Be kind of ironic if he scores the try that puts Ireland out.

He admitted to battering his girlfriend. Thats why he wasnt convicted, no? Look I believe in second chances myself but after going the recent trial in NI Irish rugby was never going to take him on.

Oh I agree, but providing the court the impression that he was ok if not convicted was a bit terse. Anyway, Connacht left the hard work with us, and it seems we just might have turned it around, so all the better in the end for all, except maybe Connacht and Ireland. Who knows... Whistle

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:17 pm

I doubt it was too hard a job. Im sure just like Fifeta and Frizzell he had already played rugby for years at home.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:22 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I doubt it was too hard a job. Im sure just like Fifeta and Frizzell he had already played rugby for years at home.

Yes but how would you know how hard a job it was? You don’t have any experience of finding that out. It’s likely there are far more that don’t succeed than do, obviously. At least when you hook in a professional off the shelf certain attributes come with it. We provide those.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:24 pm

Do you?

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:31 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Do you?

yep, personally Hug (For a price thumbsup )

In fact I wonder if this latest surge has prompted further calls from the clubs now that he's 'worked thorugh the issues' and is now 'ready' for NH acceptance? Laugh

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:07 am

Jeepers more kiwis in this lot than the Super rugby wrap:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/112308818/kiwi-coaches-dave-rennie-and-chris-boyd-in-playoffs-hunt-in-europe

Now who to pick...? hmmm...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:20 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Do you?

yep, personally Hug (For a price thumbsup )

In fact I wonder if this latest surge has prompted further calls from the clubs now that he's 'worked thorugh the issues' and is now 'ready' for NH acceptance? Laugh

Are you a coach? For who?

Im sure some teams would want him but not in Ireland right now. Even Gerbant Grobelar had to leave Munster because of pressure from the media etc.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:33 pm

Well he has more promise and skill than James Low at the same age and Ireland have him so hard to go with that on that count. Connacht have likely missed a good one there if he continues the rate of improvement of the last couple of years.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:09 pm

Good luck to him. It was a nice try alright.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:49 pm

has probably eclipsed Naholo for a non Ben Smith at wing backline though George Bridge can also play there. They could go with Jordie barett at FB, meaning Smith to wing but Reece's trending last two years looks to have been solid, despite the Chiefs giving him up as a Saders replacement.

Theyve lost both Lowe and Reece now, and are last in the NZ conference with DMac out as well.

Hansen tends to want high skill high risk levels on the field and Reece is certainly that.

Barrett is the sort of selection that were he to lose the W Cup, his legacy will remember him as not picking the steadier 10- Fox over Botica, Merts over Spencer, Mo'unga over Barrett. Like Mitchell picking Spencer for flair, hansen likes to throw the 'fun guy' in. Reece over Ben Smith is that sort of pick as well. Theres something special about bringing in a relative unknown and seeing him grow on the main stage.

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Post by miaow on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:09 am

Should probably just sort the wing position out by dropping Beauden Barrett back to what is obviously his best position. But that makes the 10 crisis even worse...

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:16 am

Yes my pick would have been dmac at fb with Barrett moving there when mo’unga Subs for dmac, who is not as good at 10.
Ben Smith must be there and Reece hits jordies chances, and he oozes talent, but can slip up.
Regardless, players are putting their hands up very high at the moment. Trick is to stay uninjured.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 01 May 2019, 1:25 pm

Another New Zealand import, Gabriel Makhlouf has been signed by an Irish organisation. Have you heard of him Taylorman? Im quite interested in this signing.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 02 May 2019, 2:48 am

Good kiwi name obviously Shocked

No, can't say I have, Mitre 10 player? Must check...

oh yup, perhaps hes come to manage the funds from our now biggest export New Zealand Out Half Crisis - Page 5 1347041234

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 17 May 2019, 12:51 pm

Watching the Jaguares v Chiefs game one guy who was considered a real prospect for NZ a few years ago really looks to be going backwards, Jordie Barrett. Another game deciding blunder from him.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/112814092/super-rugby-jordie-barretts-brain-explosion-sends-hurricanes-spiralling-to-loss-v-jagauares#comments

With no McKenzie available I hope for NZ they are keeping Ben Smith well protected.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 18 May 2019, 11:19 am

Hurricanes...Jordies an exceptionally talented player but yes is prone to error. Hes still raw but has more talent than most his age. He’ll make the squad as he can play midfield wing and fullback. The world cup could just be the stage for all three barretts. Theyre fearless, unpredictable, unorthodox, and find any way they can to create space and time, and find the tryline. Easy to find errors with that type of player, but they can destroy you just the same, as beaudy has on many occasions.

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