Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Saturday 27th April

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Post by BigGee on Mon 22 Apr 2019, 9:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh
Scotstoun Stadium
Glasgow

Saturday 27th April
KO at 19.35

Live on Premier Sports


Well now we have got those trivial European semi finals out of the way, we can concentrate on the most important game of the season so far when the luvies of Edinburgh return to the west to meet the once and future champions!

So what is in this game for both sides?

For Glasgow any kind of win will take them into a home semi final and that may still happen if Munster lose to Connacht should the unthinkable happen and we don't win!

Hard to see what is in it at all for Edinburgh other than pride, as they would need a win and a sequence of unlikely results to go there way even to get into the play off for the last Champs cup place, let alone to qualify for the playoffs, though that does remain a mathematical possibility.

Glasgow, after a poor show against Saracens and that can be slightly qualified by the way they demolished Munster yesterday have continued to build their form and look in very good shape going into this one. They should be further boosted by the return of a few more of their walking wounded, Wilson and Gibbins should be back for this match to add even more steel to their back row.

Edinburgh look as if their season ran out of steam in a dissapointing loss at home to Ulster. For some of their top performers it really looked like it was a game to far and they will have to dig very deep into their tank to find it within themselves to compete for a game that is likely not to get them any tangible reward even if they were to win.

Having said that Edinburgh do seem to take the option of turning up for this match, as opposed to the option of not turning up for other games that they should win comfortably like Dragons, Zebre and the Southern Kings!

On form, this is a Glasgow win all day of the week. However as some of the Edinburgh fans have pointed out, they have won this fixture before despite being the underdogs in the past (well just about every time we play to be honest).

So Glasgow will need to be on their game for this one and i am sure that they will be, with the massive incentive of a home semi and the potential of being in the final at Celtic Park. They are also going to be very peed off at the way we have lost to Edinburgh recently and have the feeling that it is about time that they plaed the real Glasgow team!

So here we go

Discuss!

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 10:55 am

Throwing away games against Cardiff, Kings, Zebre and the Dragons meant meant we had to go fully loaded for so many games later in the season....ideally you would rotate those players after Europe and the 6N but we left no margin for error. The 10 man rugby played exacerbates the problem.... and the coaches are culpable there..... we have an outstanding winger like VDM who hasn’t touched the ball for about 6 weeks. Haven’t seen any stats but I’ll wager that a good number of the top 20 carriers over the season will be in the Edinburgh Pack.No wonder they are out of gas....

It perhaps has not helped that our first choice centres are both coming back from long term injury but the way we overdid the no risk predictable box kick rugby shows a lack of faith in our backs. Hickey came with great fanfare but is now only played in emergency. We have no cover for Kinghorn at fullback and that should have been identified before the season began.

Some of this may sound familiar to Leicester fans?

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:00 am

The Cardiff game was at home DB which makes it even worse - we were 17 pointe up!

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:12 am

Oh but remember you came from behind to beat Scarlets laughing

Forever Scotland’s second team

Luvvies always luvvies

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:19 am

That’ll be the Scarlets who ran out of gas against the Dragons yesterday Eejit?.... thought so....

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:22 am

Suspect we will be the only Scottish side with any silverware in the cabinet at the end of the season with the 1872 cup safely tucked away in its rightful place for yet another year!!

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:39 am

You can keep the 1872 doorstop and it can have pride of place in Edinburgh’s otherwise barren trophy cabinet. Glasgow’s is doing fine, though the 2014/15 Pro14 Champions trophy is getting lonely so I suspect it will be getting company in a few weeks time.

I’m about to sit down and watch the game again. If any luvvies could tell me where to fast-forward to in order to see Edinburgh’s so called world class pack and the best back row in Europe not getting eaten alive by a 22 year old kid with a mullet that would be aces.

Taking a break from putting the perfumed ones in their proper place, has anyone heard any news about the wounded? Rambo and Pyrgos stretchered off and neither looked good at all.

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:48 am

The fastest Henry moved all day was when he was carried off on the stretcher...... TV showed him up on his feet at the end of the game.....

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Post by reallybored on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:05 pm

Edinburgh just seem to have run out of steam since the 6 Nations, whereas Glasgow have looked brutal after losing to Sarries.

In this form with two home matches left, kind of confident they'll win the thing.  Destroying Ulster and Leinster recently should give them a lot of confidence.

For Edinburgh, obviously an incredibly disappointing end to a mixed season.  Had a great run in Europe but showed their inexperience against Munster in a match they should have won but when looking at their league form, not surprising they didn't.


Osprey 17-13 Edinburgh - could have won, maul on their 5m line with final play

Ulster 30-29 Edinburgh - should have won, lost restart in final minute and gave penalty away

Leinster 31-7 Edinburgh - expected

Zebre 34-16 Edinburgh - post 1st round of Europe, inexperienced pack ahead into 2nd half then folded

Dragons 18-12 Edinburgh - during AIs, inexperienced pack lost out in tight match

Munster 44-14 Edinburgh - expected

Kings 25-21 Edinburgh - 2nd choice team were 8 ahead in last 5 then let in 2 long-range tries

Edinburgh 17-19 Cardiff - post 3rd round of Europe, inexperienced side were 17 ahead then fold in final quarter

Benetton 18-10 Edinburgh - 2nd choice pack, 2 points ahead at 55 minutes then fell away

Edinburgh 7-29 Ulster - 1st team outmuscled and well beaten

Glasgow 7-29 Edinburgh - mauled by a hungrier side


Incredibly frustrating looking back at those games because in a lot of them, Edinburgh were in a position to win but then collapsed at some point in the 2nd half.  The two that really killed the season were Kings away and Cardiff home during the 6 Nations, plus for me the most annoying one was the away loss to Ulster at the start of the season (plus Bennett got injured).

Injuries and international call-ups obviously made a huge difference too, the 2nd choice team wasn't good enough and the likes of McInally, Nel, Gilchrist & Watson have played a lot of rugby this season.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:08 pm

The boy Gordon looked handy.

Get more bias from the SRU by sending him to Glasgow.
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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:21 pm

tigertattie wrote:The boy Gordon looked handy.

Get more bias from the SRU by sending him to Glasgow.

It’s okay, we’re sending Jamie’s Bhatti across to help out your powderpuff pack.

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:23 pm

Well, it was a bit of a dull game as a contest. Glasgow raced ahead and never really looked back.

Edinburgh had one attacking strategy but it allowed Glasgow to defend narrowly and not really have to move around all that much. If Hodge is staying, he needs to look to advance. Even Howley and the rather blunt Welsh "10 phases then we give Parkes, Davies and North a go as a strike runner" has more to it than Edinburgh had at the end of the season.

The games where Edinburgh looked like a top 10 team in Europe they opened up more, attacked wider and offloaded in the tackle effectively. Saw none of that against Glasgow. The more praise they got for their grit, the more they backed brawn over finesse and it left a fine margin of error if the opposing team can stay close or get ahead early.

Hope the injuries are minor and the cup run seemed to have hurt more mentally than physically until yesterday. The Edinburgh players need to go on holiday for six weeks and just do nothing beyond some light swimming and cycling to keep some basic fitness.

Glasgow in contrast wanted this badly. They looked up for it from the off. I struggled to see much in the rucks due to the quality of the stream, but Cummings looked to have a good game. M Fagerson had a couple of great carries as well. It is great they are hitting their stride at the right moment and 3 weeks now to get Gray and Kebble fit (though Bhatti is putting his hand up belatedly). Ulster and Connacht played their seconds so neither one will have ill effects by the time they get to us. Neither should be too scary to face (famous last words).

One thing to note is that DR has not done a wonderful job rotating this year either like Cockerill. Injuries early in the season forced his hand to give Rae, Steyn and Stewart playing time. Z Fagerson got crocked early on and the injuries to the centres forced him to bring in Steyn as an emergency. The players came back in mid-season whereas last season it felt players got injured later in the day. We will see if he is willing to put more faith in the 3rd choice players a bit earlier in the 2020-2021 season (has no choice next season) as it felt forced this season. Cokerill needs to look at load management like the NBA has shifted towards. You can get away with subtle adjustments of rotating props at 50 instead of 70 minutes to save the legs (Why are Schoeman, Nel and Mata going 70 all the time with Dell, Sutherland, Berghan, McCallum, Bradbury and Crosbie all available?) or putting out the second choice front row with a first second row and a back row of Crosbie - Barclay - Bradbury.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 2:49 pm

Not sure I completely agree with that last bit Hazel.

DR and Glasgow do rotate more and not just forced to by injuries.

What they have at Glasgow is a genuine competition for places and players that step up are rewarded for their performances.

He is also not afraid to drop or not pick big names when the need arises. JG has been benched and then came roaring back into form. HJ is not getting a look in currently, despite being our highest paid back now!

That sends the right message out to the whole squad, who will all feel that they do have a chance of getting some game time. A lot of the youngsters who are excelling this year, got bloodied last year and are now benefitting from that and have shown themselves ready to step up and have the confidence of the coaching staff that they can do it.

Our record in the international windows are what has won us the conference again this year, when we have had our squad players out as well as the fact that we have probably given up less internationals to Scotland than in previous years, for which we have Edinburgh to thanks!

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 3:00 pm

The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 3:16 pm

RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

What about when you got manshamed by Zebre in October?

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Post by RDW on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 4:08 pm

Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

What about when you got manshamed by Zebre in October?

Meh that was a bad result but we had a 2nd choice pack out (kids in the 2nd row) the week after a euro game so there was at least an excuse - the two games I highlighted we had the game won then completely blew it.

Can add dragons to the list too!

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 4:20 pm

RDW wrote:
Eejit wrote:
RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

What about when you got manshamed by Zebre in October?

Meh that was a bad result but we had a 2nd choice pack out (kids in the 2nd row) the week after a euro game so there was at least an excuse - the two games I highlighted we had the game won then completely blew it.

Can add dragons to the list too!

I know, I just wanted to bring up the fact you got manshamed by the mighty Zebre. The team that finished dead last.

Over a quarter of the points they got in the league this year was vs you. Run

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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 6:31 pm

Did anyone see the tweet put out by Glasgow 'for our big brother' a couple of travel guides for Russia and Romania!

It was pulled pretty quickly after it was up, probably someone form the SRU did not like it!

I actually thought it was quite funny and it was Cockers who started all that stuff

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:06 pm

It’s good for the rivalry but there were some people that were getting very precious about the whole thing.

You have to take the good with the bad sometimes although for Edinburgh fans it is mostly bad.

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:17 pm

The whole thing needs a bit of spice.... it’s been far too cosy up here with two manufactured teams under union ownership......

There should be a massive rivalry which will help to drive standards....

Maybe now Glasgow have finally managed to win a derby game the pot will be stirred.... been all too easy til now!


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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 7:45 pm

Calling it a win does not do it justice really!

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:00 pm

Right, we’re going to just have to get to the final now as I’ve gone and bought tickets for it.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:07 pm

I think I shall wait till after the semi. Fingers Crossed

Mind you, the present MrsPip has granted me a 48 hour pass for that weekend if they do make it. Yahoo

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Post by BigGee on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:22 pm

I am holding out for the final as well, but will wait till we get there before I buy

Don't want to jinx it!

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Post by Dollar Bill on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 8:38 pm

Been so long since you had one v Edinburgh I’m not surprised that you didn’t recognise it 😉

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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:27 pm

It’ll be my first time in that midden Celtic Park actually. What’s the best way of getting back into town after?

If Celtic do win the Scottish Cup that day, I wonder if there will be anything in place to stop fans coming to the ground to celebrate.

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Post by tigertattie on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:37 pm

Reasons not to go to the final

1. I’m an Edinburgh fan and they ain’t there (just getting that out out way for eejit)
2. It’s in a football ground
3. It’s in Celtic’s football ground
4. It’s in Glasgow
5. Who wants to see ulster vs Leinster anyway
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Post by Eejit on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 9:41 pm

tigertattie wrote:Reasons not to go to the final

1. I’m an Edinburgh fan and they ain’t there (just getting that out out way for eejit)
2. It’s in a football ground
3. It’s in Celtic’s football ground
4. It’s in Glasgow
5. Who wants to see ulster vs Leinster anyway

I think we should take some time and explore this part a little further.

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Post by reallybored on Sun 28 Apr 2019, 11:42 pm

RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

I agree, reviewing the season those were the two that really stood out.  Granted they were under-strengths teams but in both games we were in winning positions and didn't have the composure to close it out during a critical part of the season.  When those bad results are combined with a couple missed opportunities against Ospreys or Ulster away and a couple turgid arm-wrestles away to Dragons or Benetton, it's just too many dropped points.

While I'm frustrated, I'm also aware that Cockerill has genuinely suffered from injuries and call-ups this season; he had an extensive list of long-term injured players including Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett & Hoyland, his front-five was effectively the Scottish front-five for AIs & 6Ns, lost Kinghorn at key time of season, plus the European run was a double edged sword for a squad lacking quality depth.

When they were at full-strength and fresh, the first choice XV was a very effective unit with the double against Glasgow and wins in Europe testament to this, it wasn't flash but it was efficient and played to the teams' forward strength.  People have been quick to criticise the box-kicking of Pyrgos in recent weeks but this was the tactic they employed effectively for most of the season, the issue was inability to convert once they achieved field position.

Suppose the positives from the season were; emergence of Graham, signing of Schoeman, game-time for Hunter-Hill, Hodgson, Shiell & Taylor, Walt's form, Dean had an effective season, Mata was class, front-five were a quality unit, Johnstone's try against Toulon.

From the signings announced it would strike me that Cockerill is looking at the French blue-print for a club side for next season, brutal up-front with some fijian star-dust in the backs to create when they can't batter their way through.  

Edinburgh have to win something next season, probably the Challenge Cup.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:12 am

BigGee wrote:Calling it a win does not do it justice really!

Agreed. More of a dead rubber...

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:06 am

reallybored wrote:
RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

I agree, reviewing the season those were the two that really stood out.  Granted they were under-strengths teams but in both games we were in winning positions and didn't have the composure to close it out during a critical part of the season.  When those bad results are combined with a couple missed opportunities against Ospreys or Ulster away and a couple turgid arm-wrestles away to Dragons or Benetton, it's just too many dropped points.

While I'm frustrated, I'm also aware that Cockerill has genuinely suffered from injuries and call-ups this season; he had an extensive list of long-term injured players including Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett & Hoyland, his front-five was effectively the Scottish front-five for AIs & 6Ns, lost Kinghorn at key time of season, plus the European run was a double edged sword for a squad lacking quality depth.

When they were at full-strength and fresh, the first choice XV was a very effective unit with the double against Glasgow and wins in Europe testament to this, it wasn't flash but it was efficient and played to the teams' forward strength.  People have been quick to criticise the box-kicking of Pyrgos in recent weeks but this was the tactic they employed effectively for most of the season, the issue was inability to convert once they achieved field position.

Suppose the positives from the season were; emergence of Graham, signing of Schoeman, game-time for Hunter-Hill, Hodgson, Shiell & Taylor, Walt's form, Dean had an effective season, Mata was class, front-five were a quality unit, Johnstone's try against Toulon.

From the signings announced it would strike me that Cockerill is looking at the French blue-print for a club side for next season, brutal up-front with some fijian star-dust in the backs to create when they can't batter their way through.  

Edinburgh have to win something next season, probably the Challenge Cup.

There was actually a lot of great attacking play in the Euro games, especially against Toulon. That completely disappeared after 6N!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:12 am

RDW wrote:
reallybored wrote:
RDW wrote:The Kings and Blues games were completely unforgivable - if we'd not messed those up we would have been comfortably in 3rd place going into this game.

I agree, reviewing the season those were the two that really stood out.  Granted they were under-strengths teams but in both games we were in winning positions and didn't have the composure to close it out during a critical part of the season.  When those bad results are combined with a couple missed opportunities against Ospreys or Ulster away and a couple turgid arm-wrestles away to Dragons or Benetton, it's just too many dropped points.

While I'm frustrated, I'm also aware that Cockerill has genuinely suffered from injuries and call-ups this season; he had an extensive list of long-term injured players including Carmichael, Barclay, Bradbury, Scott, Bennett & Hoyland, his front-five was effectively the Scottish front-five for AIs & 6Ns, lost Kinghorn at key time of season, plus the European run was a double edged sword for a squad lacking quality depth.

When they were at full-strength and fresh, the first choice XV was a very effective unit with the double against Glasgow and wins in Europe testament to this, it wasn't flash but it was efficient and played to the teams' forward strength.  People have been quick to criticise the box-kicking of Pyrgos in recent weeks but this was the tactic they employed effectively for most of the season, the issue was inability to convert once they achieved field position.

Suppose the positives from the season were; emergence of Graham, signing of Schoeman, game-time for Hunter-Hill, Hodgson, Shiell & Taylor, Walt's form, Dean had an effective season, Mata was class, front-five were a quality unit, Johnstone's try against Toulon.

From the signings announced it would strike me that Cockerill is looking at the French blue-print for a club side for next season, brutal up-front with some fijian star-dust in the backs to create when they can't batter their way through.  

Edinburgh have to win something next season, probably the Challenge Cup.

There was actually a lot of great attacking play in the Euro games, especially against Toulon. That completely disappeared after 6N!

Probably no coincidence it vanished when Kinghorn got injured. Graham is your only back with any spark at the moment, hopefully new season = new backs coach? I think you could get a lot more out of your backline when you consider you have Scott who up until this point was having excellent seasons in the Aviva Premiership, Dean who is a decent club player, Johnstone, all of whom will probably still be in Scotland come the WC.

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:16 am

Hodge's contract was up this summer but he's signed a new deal apparently - he's not overly deserved it!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:19 am

RDW wrote:Hodge's contract was up this summer but he's signed a new deal apparently - he's not overly deserved it!

Mates in the SRU, seems to be a recurring theme Rolling Eyes
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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:40 am

Well first off well done Glasgow, only one team in that game and deserved winners. Glasgow are always my 2nd pro team, so will be hoping you go on to get to and win the final.

I’ve heard the injuries to Rambo & Darcy aren’t as bad as first feared, with a twisted ankle and hip knock, so thankfully should still be in contention for the WC.

The style of play from Edinburgh has been laboured and ineffective for a while now, we’ve managed to scrape a few wins, but teams have figured us out and Glasgow well and truly had our number on sat. We need to change this, but I have a horrible feeling this will just make Cockers resolve stronger and we’re going to see more of the same next season.

We should also treat the challenge cup as a competition to test out our younger players, whilst it would be nice to win it, I’d much rather we were in contention to win the Pro14 or at least get into the playoffs, so if we need to prioritise then lets focus on the league.

On a totally off topic aside, Tom Gordon the latest player to come through via Currie and yet Currie didn’t get a super 6 place. Instead Boroughmuir who are in crippling debt and are literally a stone throw away from Watsonians get a place. Of course Glasgow fans I get the west is massively underrepresented, but if they were giving it to another Edinburgh club Currie are up there with the Ayr in terms of player development and were challenging for the league until the last couple of rounds. I realise this isn’t relevant to this chat, it’s just annoying.

Anyway, well done Glasgow, I look forward to you being insufferable for the foreseeable future Smile

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:47 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Well first off well done Glasgow, only one team in that game and deserved winners.  Glasgow are always my 2nd pro team, so will be hoping you go on to get to and win the final.

Anyway, well done Glasgow, I look forward to you being insufferable for the foreseeable future  Smile

It's not in my nature to behave in such a charmless FESsian way, but I'll try for you. Hug

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Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:57 am

jimbopip wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:Well first off well done Glasgow, only one team in that game and deserved winners.  Glasgow are always my 2nd pro team, so will be hoping you go on to get to and win the final.

Anyway, well done Glasgow, I look forward to you being insufferable for the foreseeable future  Smile

It's not in my nature to behave in such a charmless FESsian way, but I'll try for you. Hug

Good man Jimbo. I'm sure you'll try your best.

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Post by R!skysports on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 2:41 pm

Yeah - Glasgow

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 2:53 pm

Bit of a shame Glasgow have a 3 week break now that they finally found some momentum. He's got a fine balance to try and keep the players simmering away but also don't flog them at the end of a long season.

I wonder if Edinburgh are being kept behind in the naughty step and do 2 weeks of fitness beasting like Solomons did to them one year. For a lot of the Scotland players that probably wouldn't be the best idea.

On the plus side the likes of Barclay will have a few months to get his body into proper shape without the rigours of games every week.

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Post by jimbopip on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:21 pm


I think that the break won't do Glasgow too much harm. Assuming that for the next game we have most of our injured players back (not the long term ones obviously) we could have

Kebble-Turner- Nuke
Jonny -McDonald
Harley-Ashe-Gibbins

seven of whom didn't start in the Slaughter Of The Effeminates.

In the centres we could have Lord Stafford- Not A Pony with Griggs benching. Actually he's not so much Not A Pony as much as Not A Happy Bunny after being left out of the try fest against the Exfoliators.

The positive is that DR should have plenty of players to choose from and lots of competition for places. The downside is that people might be unhappy at not being selected and become "less than positive influences".

Personally, I hope the Craggy Islanders and The Misogynist Collective knock lumps out of each other and the winner struggles to find fifteen fit players.

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Post by BigGee on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:15 pm

Sounds like they don't think a three break is actually z good idea and I would tend to agree.

They are planning a friendly game against the Ospreys, meeting half way apparently.

The play off games for the last Euro spot is also on the same weekend as the semis, so that suits both teams.

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Post by Eejit on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:38 pm

Where’d you hear that Gee?

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Post by BigGee on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:53 pm

Interview with DR on TOL

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Post by RDW on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 7:58 pm

In what universe does it make sense for the euro playoff teams to have to wait 3 weeks when they could play the same weekend as the QFs?

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Post by BigGee on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:44 pm

I suppose there is some logistical considerations but yes they could have been played next weekend with the other quarters.

I am not complaining though as I think a warm up game won't do Glasgow any harm!

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