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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:25 am

Good luck with that one Leinster, Robyn McBride is going to coach your forwards after the world cup.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48093628

Wales forwards coach Robin McBryde will join Leinster after the 2019 Rugby World Cup, the Welsh Rugby Union has announced.

The 37-times capped ex-Wales hooker will take over as scrum coach from John Fogarty who is joining Ireland.

McBryde has been part of Wales' coaching team since 2006, when he was appointed by Gareth Jenkins.

He was head coach on the 2009 tour to USA & Canada, to Japan in 2013 and a two test tour to the Pacific in 2017.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:51 am

'Good luck with that one'

? Omenous warning tone Lord?

Do you think he's a bad choice for Leinster?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:53 am

You would think that having been the Forwards coach for 3 Grand Slams he should be more than capable of handling the scrummage coach at a club.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:56 am

I was thinking the same thing but maybe that's what Lord means anyway.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:56 am

He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:57 am

With the right General then...........

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:08 pm

LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:09 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

Then lost to Japan. Rolling Eyes

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

Then lost to Japan. Rolling Eyes

With a scratch side Rolling Eyes

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:18 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

Then lost to Japan. Rolling Eyes

With a side missing how many in NZ with the Lions? Looking at the players available drawing that 2013 series in alien conditions looks ok - especially with what Japan did two years later.

As it is there will be Cullen, Lancaster (and a forwards coach?) above him at Leinster?

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:23 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

Then lost to Japan. Rolling Eyes

With a side missing how many in NZ with the Lions? Looking at the players available drawing that 2013 series in alien conditions looks ok - especially with what Japan did two years later.

As it is there will be Cullen, Lancaster (and a forwards coach?) above him at Leinster?

Does Leo not coach the forwards?

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:29 pm

Not in the last game he didn't! Didn't coach a damn thing last game 'cept maybe how to snooze without snoring!

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Post by miaow on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 12:58 pm

Probably the best of Welsh coaches below Gatland. Disappointed he's been lost to Wales - I do wonder if he was earmarked for a role in the north Wales region in a more senior position.

Seems strange to lose him in what is effectively a downgrade in every sense: Leinster v Wales, scrum coach instead of forwards.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 1:01 pm

I am sure that the environment at Leinster will be a superb building ground for McBride to advance further as a coach.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 1:27 pm

Don't think it would be seen as a downgrade but could rather be seen as a shift over for a coach that loves coaching more than waiting for International windows?
I think quite a few modern coaches find some of the limitations of an International coach frustrating.
Anyway.... Leinster, many of the players amongst the top ranks of International players in the world.... many of whom have as potent European/club credentials as they have International ones; some of the most sucessful, in terns of trophies won, players on the planet. Downgrade? Lancaster doesn't think so, and he's an ex-International HEAD coach.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 1:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:Don't think it would be seen as a downgrade but could rather be seen as a shift over for a coach that loves coaching more than waiting for International windows?  
I think quite a few modern coaches find some of the limitations of an International coach frustrating.  
Anyway.... Leinster, many of the players amongst the top ranks of International players in the world.... many of whom have as potent European/club credentials as they have International ones; some of the most sucessful, in terns of trophies won, players on the planet.   Downgrade?  Lancaster doesn't think so, and he's an ex-International HEAD coach.

As one of the top clubs in the world on results as well as developments Leinster surely have the pick of whoever is on the market within their financial constraints.

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Post by BamBam on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:09 pm

Saw something on Twitter saying McBryde will be involved in coaching the scrum at all 4 provinces rather than just Leinster

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:13 pm

Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:16 pm

BamBam wrote:Saw something on Twitter saying McBryde will be involved in coaching the scrum at all 4 provinces rather than just Leinster

Nope that's John Fogarty, he will work with the academies

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:18 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

How much did they earn and were they offered to stay in Wales and how much do/will they earn in Ireland?

Though didn't Beirne move to play for Ireland?


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Post by miaow on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 3:59 pm

Tricky one. There's obviously a far more professional, well paid, and developed set up in Ireland (obviously Leinster in particular) but it's also a 'good' career move. Let's be honest, if McBryde had gone for the Dragons Head Coach role, he'd be on a hiding to nothing. At least with Leinster, unless he's useless, he can spend 2-3 years there and say he contributed to X number of trophies and bringing through Y number of test and Lions players in the province.

Although the Beirne situation shows - the grass isn't always greener. Being a bit flippant but had he stayed with the Scarlets he'd still likely be considered a top player in Europe. Had he played for Wales instead of Ireland - would have qualified in the autumn - he'd almost certainly had a more prominent, and possibly 'better' all round, test career. Some people suit certain styles/set ups better and Beirne suited Wales.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 4:30 pm

Why would Beirne want to play for Wales? He is Irish.

There hasnt been a huge difference in the level of success in the Wales team v the Ireland team in the last 10 years however, in the last 5 years Ireland have been more successful and Munster more successful that the Welsh sides. Not seeing much benefit in staying in Wales.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 5:35 pm

This is what happens when you are the number 1 team in the world. The player and coaching drain from Wales is now inevitable. We’d better get used to it. It’s the same as what happened in New Zealand over the years when they were number one.
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Post by miaow on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:24 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Why would Beirne want to play for Wales? He is Irish.

There hasnt been a huge difference in the level of success in the Wales team v the Ireland team in the last 10 years however, in the last 5 years Ireland have been more successful and Munster more successful that the Welsh sides. Not seeing much benefit in staying in Wales.

See: Stander, Aki, Payne, MARMION, RUDDOCK etc.

He was given a chance in Wales that he wasn't in Ireland. But the salient point was his style of rugby suits Wales/the Scarlets much better than it suits Munster/Ireland, as evidenced by his performances and his opportunities in the national side. Which was the point I was making regarding McBryde as well but the nuance seem to have been lost on you...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:33 pm

Marmion and Ruddock are both from Irish backgrounds. Beirne is not in any way Welsh. I dont see your point re the others.

He has played well for Munster and reasonably well for Ireland albeit international rugby is a big step up from playing for Munster or the Scarlets.

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Post by theslosty on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:42 pm

Seems a bit odd to single out Beirne, I think he's been brilliant for Munster so far and I'm sure we'll see a lot more of him in a green shirt.
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Post by miaow on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:46 pm

Yep, you're well and truly missing the point Collapse.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 6:50 pm

theslosty wrote:Seems a bit odd to single out Beirne, I think he's been brilliant for Munster so far and I'm sure we'll see a lot more of him in a green shirt.

Agreed

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:He might have improved as the years have gone by, but when he was in charge of the national team with Howler they were well out of their depth together.

2013? They won the championship

Then lost to Japan. Rolling Eyes

With a side missing how many in NZ with the Lions? Looking at the players available drawing that 2013 series in alien conditions looks ok - especially with what Japan did two years later.

As it is there will be Cullen, Lancaster (and a forwards coach?) above him at Leinster?


Some people have short memories. 2013 wasn't a difficult one to win. After round 1 Ireland had a few injury setbacks and fell apart. England were okay, seemed to fall off in the final 2 rounds like they have done on a few occasions. Just before this, Lenny and Larry steered Wales to four straight losses in the AI series, playing some of the worst rugby I've seen. There was also the other more recent autumn where we started with an absolutely dreadful loss to Australia, the team looked like complete amateurs. We looked the same throughout the autumn despite winning a few games. The following 6N was more of the same. Playing the same brand of rugby we ended up finishing 5th; Howley and McBryde were responsible for the only loss to Scotland in the Gatland era, sorry Scots but it's true.

The only thing McBryde has going for him is not being as bad as Howley. I can't see him doing badly at Leinster with the group of forwards they have as well as the coaches beside him. But if you do regress then don't say we didn't warn you. You can allude to the success of Wales all you like. The reality is that it's been a one-man show the way the head coach likes it; Warren Gatland.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 8:52 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Why would Beirne want to play for Wales? He is Irish.

There hasnt been a huge difference in the level of success in the Wales team v the Ireland team in the last 10 years however, in the last 5 years Ireland have been more successful and Munster more successful that the Welsh sides. Not seeing much benefit in staying in Wales.

I think he's saying that Beirne would possibly be a more established international in Wales. The Welsh certainly seem to appreciate his talents a lot more than the Irish. He seems to picking up where he left off, putting in MOTM performance every other week. I know you think he's too small for lock but he's around the same size as POC and he is also very physical. If you prefer big locks then cool, the obvious choice is to shift Beirne to 6. POM is possibly the most overrated player in world rugby.

I had hoped he would stay put but being as he's an Irishman I fully expected him to leave so he could get a shot at playing for his country. Good on him.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:14 pm

Wales probably do have less talent at lock/backrow alright.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:20 pm

miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Why would Beirne want to play for Wales? He is Irish.

There hasnt been a huge difference in the level of success in the Wales team v the Ireland team in the last 10 years however, in the last 5 years Ireland have been more successful and Munster more successful that the Welsh sides. Not seeing much benefit in staying in Wales.

See: Stander, Aki, Payne, MARMION, RUDDOCK etc.

He was given a chance in Wales that he wasn't in Ireland. But the salient point was his style of rugby suits Wales/the Scarlets much better than it suits Munster/Ireland, as evidenced by his performances and his opportunities in the national side. Which was the point I was making regarding McBryde as well but the nuance seem to have been lost on you...

As other have said Beirne has been excellent for Munster.
The competion at Lock is tougher in Ireland than Wales - Ryan, Henderson, Toner
I know Wales have AWJ but overall I wouldn't swap.
No idea why Ruddock and Marmion mentioned given there  backgrounds
Marmion born of Irish parents and played aged rugby for Ireland
Ruddock has an Irish parent, went to University in Dublin and also played aged rugby for Ireland
Beirne has the full set - birthplace, parents, school, university and aged rugby - he was never ever going to play for Wales
That leave 3 players - Aki, Stander, Payne who are outsiders - less than anyone else I venture to suggest

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:40 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Wales probably do have less talent at lock/backrow alright.

At lock Ireland don't have a better player than AWJ obviously. Right now however I'd say that Henderson, Ryan and Beirne are better than Beard, Hill and Ball; Davies not in the mix, he's a great lock but has been very injury prone during his career. Toner is capable of a good game but for me he's also a little past it so I don't rate him as better.

Better talent in the back-row? LOL good one... not really.

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Post by miaow on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 9:47 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Wales probably do have less talent at lock

Definitely

Collapse2005 wrote:backrow alright.

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:06 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Wales probably do have less talent at lock/backrow alright.

At lock Ireland don't have a better player than AWJ obviously. Right now however I'd say that Henderson, Ryan and Beirne are better than Beard, Hill and Ball; Davies not in the mix, he's a great lock but has been very injury prone during his career. Toner is capable of a good game but for me he's also a little past it so I don't rate him as better.

Better talent in the back-row? LOL good one... not really.

AWJ is up there alright but I dont think Wales have a better back row, some good players though.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 10:37 pm

Well Guns, why don't we just agree to disagree on the back-row thumbsup.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 29 Apr 2019, 11:32 pm

Works for me

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 10:04 am

We did get a few Wales trained coaches in the past to be fair, Easterby, Ruddock and now McBride. Although Wales got Gatland from us via Wasps.

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:47 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

Ah here...

Allen Clarke
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Robin Copeland
Guy Easterby
Simon Easterby
Declan Kidney
Peter Bracken
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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:51 am

Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

Ah here...

Allen Clarke
Tommy Bowe
Robin Copeland
Guy Easterby
Simon Easterby
Declan Kidney
Peter Bracken
Tim Ryan

You left out Tadgh Beirne and Nick Williams

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:59 am

In fairness we did get Cliff Morgan for a while too many moons ago

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:11 pm

Healy, Cronin, Furlong, the Byrnes, Porter all get scrummage lessons from a guy that has experience training the Welsh front row (and their technique) and analysing the other 6Ns calibre scrum technicians.

Leinster coaching ticket still has some lad called Lancaster and big Leo along with a large portion of their first choice players still getting scrum sessions with their previous coach when they are at the Irish setup.

And it only costs a scrum coach position (a position that was not full time occupied prior to Fogs if I'm not mistaken, did Feek use to run around the provinces a bit, trying to remember).

Sounds like McBryde wants to get exposure to Joe, Farrell, Leo and Lancaster by being over here. Take notes for a little while and head away with a difference maker on his CV of experience.

Only downside to Leinster and Ireland is potentially giving access to your entire system to your future competition. However you also get to access to his knowledge of the pack from Wales.

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 10:01 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

Ah here...

Allen Clarke
Tommy Bowe
Robin Copeland
Guy Easterby
Simon Easterby
Declan Kidney
Peter Bracken
Tim Ryan

You left out Tadgh Beirne and Nick Williams

I didn't want it to look too much like one-way traffic.... Wink
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Post by The Oracle on Wed 01 May 2019, 9:08 am

Pot Hale wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Shows where the money is doesn't it. From Welsh rugby we lose the likes of Tagdh Beirne, Robin McBryde, Simon Easterby - what did we get in return? Bernard pissing Jackman.

Ah here...

Allen Clarke
Tommy Bowe
Robin Copeland
Guy Easterby
Simon Easterby
Declan Kidney
Peter Bracken
Tim Ryan

You left out Tadgh Beirne and Nick Williams

I didn't want it to look too much like one-way traffic....  Wink

Simon Easterby? Really?!
Declan Kidney?! Ah, you're just joking I see.
Peter Bracken - true he did play for the Dragons, much to our amusement! We used to play 'Bracken Watch' from the stands and watch him struggle to jog from play to play. Was funny until we realised it was our team he was playing for Sad
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