Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:03 am

Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty FtvssQC

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:16 am

Which game is that?

Ah worked it out now. I see the player has been cited. Without watching teh actual coverage I have no idea what was said between the TMO and Clancy. Clancy does not see it live as it is behind him.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:22 am

What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:24 am

Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Was pretty clear contact was made from the video and the AR was 5 feet away, Clancy bottled it

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:27 am

I will reserve judgement until anyone is able to provide the actual review footage. Looks like an incident that should have seen the player sent off, but hard to judge without the full review footage.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:29 am

It looks likely that he head butted him in the above video but you cant actually definitively see contact with the head. I'm sure he will get a ban. Dumb from McFadden.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:39 am

LondonTiger wrote:I will reserve judgement until anyone is able to provide the actual review footage. Looks like an incident that should have seen the player sent off, but hard to judge without the full review footage.

That is the full footage, TMO only had one angle available

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:41 am

Collapse2005 wrote:It looks likely that he head butted him in the above video but you cant actually definitively see contact with the head. I'm sure he will get a ban. Dumb from McFadden.

It's a case of being 90% sure he made contact with his head, Clancy said there was contact he just wasn't sure where that should have at least been a yellow but it's where the laws are a mess. He tried to headbutt him rewarding him for missing by only missing 10 mins would have been a joke

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:48 am

You reckon straight red?

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:49 am

Collapse2005 wrote:You reckon straight red?

yes 100%.


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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:50 am

Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:54 am

LondonTiger wrote:I will reserve judgement until anyone is able to provide the actual review footage. Looks like an incident that should have seen the player sent off, but hard to judge without the full review footage.

Sure:

https://streamable.com/xmfft

Clancy says that he and his officiating team can't see the point of contact that the head made....so gives just a penalty.




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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:55 am

Collapse2005 wrote:You reckon straight red?

It was, what irked me though was Clancy saying to the TMO he wasn't sure where contact was made meaning it should have at least been a yellow

The AR needs a kick up the backside for not saying anything given he was staring straight at it but he stood silent while Clancy deliberated. Just a pity Joy Neville was on the other side, she was excellent as an AR all game you could hear her throughout

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:55 am

Who was the AR?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:56 am

Should have been a red card. Any result for the citing, I'd have thought he doesn't play again this season.

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Post by clivemcl on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:56 am

The comments here are ridiculous.
The laws surrounding these things are designed to rid it from the game.
THEREFORE.
The players ability to make or not make contact is irrelevant.
If you are on the field and you decide to go for a headbutt on a player youd eserve to be off.

How on earth are we discussing fine details of contact? In what other area of life would we say 'You tried to do something bad, but messed it up, therefore you are sound, because you never succeeded in the act'.

Ridiculous way to consider the incident.


Last edited by clivemcl on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:57 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I will reserve judgement until anyone is able to provide the actual review footage. Looks like an incident that should have seen the player sent off, but hard to judge without the full review footage.

Sure:

https://streamable.com/xmfft

Clancy says that he and his officiating team can't see the point of contact that the head made....so gives just a penalty.


To be fair you actually cant see with 100% certainty the point of contact even if its likely it was his head.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:00 pm

The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Who was the AR?

Eddie Hogan O’Connell


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Post by clivemcl on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:03 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I will reserve judgement until anyone is able to provide the actual review footage. Looks like an incident that should have seen the player sent off, but hard to judge without the full review footage.

Sure:

https://streamable.com/xmfft

Clancy says that he and his officiating team can't see the point of contact that the head made....so gives just a penalty.


To be fair you actually cant see with 100% certainty the point of contact even if its likely it was his head.

I'd love to see what law you are thinking about when you think the point of contact is relevant. SHould Zidane have stayed on in the 2006 world cup final? Sure he only head butted the chest. Very Happy

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:04 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

Because the officials bottled it. It just proves how inept they are in the Pro14 and how it is causing negativity towards the league.

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Post by miaow on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:04 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Yeah, if you're a bat... thumbsdown

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

Because the officials bottled it. It just proves how inept they are in the Pro14 and how it is causing negativity towards the league.

I thought you said once they came away from the unions and were centralised that wouldn't happen?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:06 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Because Clancy is a pretty poor referee.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:06 pm

Funniest bit of it all though is Gordon D'Arcy claiming Reidy, who ended up going for a HIA and failing it, was milking it

To be fair every response to the tweet, including from Leinster fans, has told him to go to specsavers and get rid of his blue tinted glasses

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:07 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

Because the officials bottled it. It just proves how inept they are in the Pro14 and how it is causing negativity towards the league.

I thought you said once they came away from the unions and were centralised that wouldn't happen?

Nope I said that it would take away the conflict of interest and potential bias stick that the league keeps getting beaten with away. Now please do not be all marty and spoil this thread with your nonsense. OK

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Post by Standulstermen on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:07 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Personally I hate it when Ulster are given Irish refs and ARs (I’d make the exception for Neville). I see we have Brace, Lacey and Clancy officiating this weekend too ffs

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Because Clancy is a pretty poor referee.

Yes there is that as well.

What branch does Clancy come under ?

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Because Clancy is a pretty poor referee.

Not long after it at a scrum he called for a reset after McGrath lost his bind, on the reset scrum Kane lost his bind and a penalty is given picard

Talk about being inconsistent

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough. Why do you think he didn't get a red?

Because the officials bottled it. It just proves how inept they are in the Pro14 and how it is causing negativity towards the league.

I thought you said once they came away from the unions and were centralised that wouldn't happen?

Nope I said that it would take away the conflict of interest and potential bias stick that the league keeps getting beaten with away. Now please do not be all marty and spoil this thread with your nonsense. OK

What nonsense, you've literally just asked


What branch does Clancy come under ?

So seems you're looking for that stick

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:11 pm

It's as clear as the imprint of Sean Reidy's teeth on McFaddens forehead that the headbutt was to the face. It wasn't with any force, it didn't phase Reidy but if Clancy even had half a cahone he would have red carded McFadden. He wanted to find every excuse not to and to give a penalty for being 'aggressive' is laughable. Clancy the clampit strickes again.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:11 pm

miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Yeah, if you're a bat... thumbsdown

Yeah if you were a bat or if their heads were the size of a pixel in the above video.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:11 pm

Standulstermen wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Personally I hate it when Ulster are given Irish refs and ARs (I’d make the exception for Neville). I see we have Brace, Lacey and Clancy officiating this weekend too ffs

Agreed, Brace isn't so bad he just has off days like too many others. Lacey and Clancy gives some glaring obvious bad decisions at times against Ulster but Ulsters win rate is still high with them...go figure

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Because Clancy is a pretty poor referee.

Not long after it at a scrum he called for a reset after McGrath lost his bind, on the reset scrum Kane lost his bind and a penalty is given picard

Talk about being inconsistent

Thankfully it is down to being incompetent rather than biased.

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Because Clancy is a pretty poor referee.

Not long after it at a scrum he called for a reset after McGrath lost his bind, on the reset scrum Kane lost his bind and a penalty is given picard

Talk about being inconsistent

Thankfully it is down to being incompetent rather than biased.

Agreed, always wonder why WR see him as a top ref, Lacey too

Used to wonder the same about Barnes but he at least has improved

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:13 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Standulstermen wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:The footage is all there.

Anybody with an ounce of shame / self awareness will be able to look inside themselves and admit why McFadden wasn't given a card.

Personally I hate it when Ulster are given Irish refs and ARs (I’d make the exception for Neville). I see we have Brace, Lacey and Clancy officiating this weekend too ffs

Agreed, Brace isn't so bad he just has off days like too many others. Lacey and Clancy gives some glaring obvious bad decisions at times against Ulster but Ulsters win rate is still high with them...go figure

Bless John Lacey - the man who once gave deliberate offside when Peter Betham picked up a ball that he had knocked on.

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Post by miaow on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Yeah, if you're a bat... thumbsdown

Yeah if you were a bat or if their heads were the size of a pixel in the above video.

With eyesight like yours, it's a good job you're not a ref. Although, as you're Irish...

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:36 pm

miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Yeah, if you're a bat... thumbsdown

Yeah if you were a bat or if their heads were the size of a pixel in the above video.

With eyesight like yours, it's a good job you're not a ref. Although, as you're Irish...

If you were asked to bet your life based on the above video that contact was made to the head as opposed to the Ulster player for example drawing his head back in anticipation of a collision would you?

I accept its very likely that it was a headbutt.

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Post by clivemcl on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:40 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:What do you find interesting about it?

Its hard to see from the TMO video if contact was made. Its Leinster v Ulster. McFadden cited.

Yeah, if you're a bat... thumbsdown

Yeah if you were a bat or if their heads were the size of a pixel in the above video.

With eyesight like yours, it's a good job you're not a ref. Although, as you're Irish...

If you were asked to bet your life based on the above video that contact was made to the head as opposed to the Ulster player for example drawing his head back in anticipation of a collision would you?

I accept its very likely that it was a headbutt.

I don't think it matters. If a player decides he WANTS to headbutt another player, he shouldn't stay on the field simply because he's incompetant in his actions.

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Post by clivemcl on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:41 pm

What next, if a player hard as nails doesn't flinch when punched in the face, will a ref reduce the punishment because it didn't seem to hurt the victim much?

Intent is intent!

And the point of the rugby laws is to discourage these things. Not to discourage only successful attempts.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:43 pm

It's quite clear. Unfair bias against Leinster shown by Clancy.

Had McFadden been rightfully sent off with a red, Leinster (as teams tend to when given a red) might have tightened up, increased their alertness and actually played with purpose/fear enough to actually win!

Clancy is guilty as f**k!

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 12:48 pm

SecretFly wrote:It's quite clear.  Unfair bias against Leinster shown by Clancy.

Had McFadden been rightfully sent off with a red, Leinster (as teams tend to when given a red) might have tightened up, increased their alertness and actually played with purpose/fear enough to actually win!

Clancy is guilty as f**k!

Pity Ulster didn't do that when Brace sent Matty Rea off earlier in the season after taking a flying knee from a Connacht player

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:12 pm

clivemcl wrote:What next, if a player hard as nails doesn't flinch when punched in the face, will a ref reduce the punishment because it didn't seem to hurt the victim much?

Intent is intent!

And the point of the rugby laws is to discourage these things. Not to discourage only successful attempts.

Im playing devils advocate a bit. If I was on the citing commission though I would probably give him a ban based on probability but I wouldn't claim that I was 100% certain there was contact to the head. The intent is clear enough too though.

Intent is important in my view but so is contact.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:19 pm

McFadden has a bit of previous too hasn't he?

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:21 pm

Yes.... but don't blame him so much. He's Irish.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:25 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:What next, if a player hard as nails doesn't flinch when punched in the face, will a ref reduce the punishment because it didn't seem to hurt the victim much?

Intent is intent!

And the point of the rugby laws is to discourage these things. Not to discourage only successful attempts.

Im playing devils advocate a bit. If I was on the citing commission though I would probably give him a ban based on probability but I wouldn't claim that I was 100% certain there was contact to the head. The intent is clear enough too though.

Intent is important in my view but so is contact.

Are you watching the footage on some kind of miniature screen Collapse?
There is 100% clearly a headbutt and it absolutely contacts the face. There is no doubt, it's not down to pixelation or screen size. It happened under the gaze of the AR who also bottled it IMO (now that's an opinion). Wink

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:25 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:McFadden has a bit of previous too hasn't he?

What did he do? He has never received a card for Ireland anyway, fairly sure of that.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:30 pm; edited 1 time in total

Collapse2005

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:27 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:What next, if a player hard as nails doesn't flinch when punched in the face, will a ref reduce the punishment because it didn't seem to hurt the victim much?

Intent is intent!

And the point of the rugby laws is to discourage these things. Not to discourage only successful attempts.

Im playing devils advocate a bit. If I was on the citing commission though I would probably give him a ban based on probability but I wouldn't claim that I was 100% certain there was contact to the head. The intent is clear enough too though.

Intent is important in my view but so is contact.

Are you watching the footage on some kind of miniature screen Collapse?
There is 100% clearly a headbutt and it absolutely contacts the face. There is no doubt, it's not down to pixelation or screen size. It happened under the gaze of the AR who also bottled it IMO (now that's an opinion). Wink

I am watching it on a Gameboy. No, its a desktop computer however, it might as well be a game boy given how pixelated the image is.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:34 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:McFadden has a bit of previous too hasn't he?

What did he do?

He was banned for 3 weeks for this stamp:

Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty XW1nWbQ

And banned for 3 weeks for this dangerous tackle:

Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty MAJgsaP

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 1:36 pm

The second one looks bad alright. He has been a pro for 15 years though so not surprising he has been in a few scrapes.

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