Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Tue 30 Apr 2019, 11:03 am

First topic message reminder :

Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty - Page 5 FtvssQC

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 May 2019, 6:48 pm

Does that not undermine your premise that incidents such as the one discussed here only happen in the pro 14? I would think the comparison is apt as you seem to be suggesting that this type of thing only happens there. If you didn't mean that fair enough.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 02 May 2019, 6:50 pm

marty2086 wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Lagon wrote:KID A, you were told years ago to get a good coaching ticket in. Sure, Pivac was right for Scarlets. He produced the goods. Are you telling me you couldn't afford him?.
Ospreys with all their big signings never had the coach to take them over the line.
Regions management has always been a joke. All infighting against each other/WRU, and always looking to blame your strongest competitors-the Irish.
You have only yourselves to blame.

So can I ask you a question:

The Directors of these 4 regions, y'know - people with 20 years experience of running a rugby team, people that have invested huge amounts of their own personal fortunes. People who have devoted their own time, money and effort into keeping these teams going when they could easily have walked away and concentrated on their day jobs - do you seriously think that never once in those 20 years it has dawned on them to spend some money on the single most important person in the rugby entity -  a decent head coach?


Ospreys appointed Allen Clarke as theirs...that should answer the question

100% amateurism from them. Tandy wasn't exactly a coach with great pedigree, they shouldn't have renewed his contract (and then forced to fire him). There's Cardiff also letting Dai Young go, then bringing in Hammett only to let Matthew Rees chase him back to NZ, allowing inexperienced Baber and Burnell to step in, then hiring disgraced Phil Davies only to sack him a few months later... Danny Wilson had one hell of a mess to clean up which he duly did, and there's fans who still think he wasn't great. PhilBB even rates their current coach; the one who takes off his best players after 50 mins, the one who has blamed the ref for losses at least 5 times this season, the one who claimed Cardiff are the best team in Wales, the one who begged all Welsh internationals to come and play for Cardiff, the guy without a decent pedigree being brought in to coach a capital city team full with internationals. Complete amateurism.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 02 May 2019, 6:58 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Does that not undermine your premise that incidents such as the one discussed here only happen in the pro 14? I would think the comparison is apt as you seem to be suggesting that this type of thing only happens there. If you didn't mean that fair enough.

What only happens in the pro14? I've never seen a headbutt only given a penalty before but I don't watch every rugby match in the world.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:04 pm

I'm saying citings, even citings for head hurts don't only happen in the pro 14.You seemed to be suggesting this is a thing only happening there? Again sorry of I've got that wrong but not sure I have?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm saying citings, even citings for head hurts don't only happen in the pro 14.You seemed to be suggesting this is a thing only happening there? Again sorry of I've got that wrong but not sure I have?

I don't think I ever said citings only happen in the pro14. That would be a ludicrous thing to say.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:25 pm

Ok. So we agree there are citings everywhere and inevitably humans make mistakes then?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ok. So we agree there are citings everywhere and inevitably humans make mistakes then?

Yes mate.

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Post by Lagon on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:47 pm

Rugbyfan,
I agree with much of what you say, concerning this incident. The ref bottled it, the TMO bottled it and the AR made his point clear and Clancy ignored. For me, it was a clear headbutt, but then I have video I can zoom in on and take time to consider and it did take time. Why I say Clancy bottled it is because the AR called it. Clancy should have trusted him, especially on the, all be it vague, video evidence.
With regards to Regions screw-up; the Ospreys spent a fortune on big name players when their first priority should have been on the coaching ticket. Irish supporters made that point to Regions supportets years ago. We also made the point with regards the signing of Clarke. He was part and parcel of the 'something rotten' in Ulster. I'm not having a dig. Ulster have underperformed for years and thats due to a rot at the core, including the CEO and the coaching ticket. Finally that seems to be a thing of the past.


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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:50 pm

Lagon wrote:.
With regards to Regions screw-up; the Ospreys spent a fortune on big name players when their first priority should have been on the coaching ticket. Irish supporters e Plaines that years ago. I'm not having a dig. Ulster have underperformed for years and that due to a rot at the core, including the CEO and the coaching ticket.  Finally that seems to be a thing of the past.

You need to read up on how the WRU screwed the regions over in the previous RSA by vetoing non Welsh developed coaching appointments

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Post by Lagon on Thu 02 May 2019, 7:57 pm

I'm well versed on the history - Moffat - Lewis, et al.
You have a point, however, you can't negate the fact that Ospreys invested in the wrong assets. Coaching has been the biggest downfall of the Regions. You don't have to spend big, just be smart.

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Post by Guest on Thu 02 May 2019, 8:01 pm

Lagon, you're assuming it's a choice between signing, say, North and Scott Williams on the one hand, and a Richard Cockerill figure on the other. What if the only option is signing the players? Do you turn them down?

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Post by Lagon on Thu 02 May 2019, 8:08 pm

No you don't. Maybe I missed it at the time, but were Ospreys banned from signing overseas coaching staff? Didn't know if true.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Thu 02 May 2019, 8:12 pm

Lagon wrote:No you don't. Maybe I missed it at the time, but were Ospreys banned from signing overseas coaching staff? Didn't  know  if true.

That is what has been claimed in some quarters.

As soon as a new RSA was negotiated, we get the likes of Pivac and Mulvahill etc. No coincidence.

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Post by Lagon on Thu 02 May 2019, 8:15 pm

Im not sure. I was engaged in many discussions at the time and it never came up. It would have been obvious at the time, I would think. Will think it through though.

Thought it through and doubt it. During the Welsh civil war - Regions v WRU- the English coup over Heinikin Cup; the Regions would have cited that as a grievance. It wasn't mentioned. Prepared to hear your reasons for thinking otherwise though.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:01 pm

Personally I think a yellow would have been fine

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 02 May 2019, 11:26 pm

6 week ban

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:38 am

carpet baboon wrote:6 week ban

For Clancy?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 9:29 am

Lagon wrote:Im not sure. I was engaged in many discussions at the time and it never came up. It would have been obvious at the time, I would think. Will think it through though.

Thought it through and doubt it. During the Welsh civil war - Regions v WRU- the English coup over Heinikin Cup; the Regions would have cited that as a grievance. It wasn't mentioned. Prepared to hear your reasons for thinking otherwise though.

So presumably then you think that the owners and directors of the 4 Welsh regions (who are mostly self made multi millionaires) are so inconceivably stupid, that they spent loads of money on players, but barely any money on the coaches that were telling those players what to do?

You actually think that they had the choice to sign world class coaches, but didn't think it was important, so instead hired the likes of Phil Davies and Justin Burnell ?

You actually think that?

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 10:27 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Lagon wrote:No you don't. Maybe I missed it at the time, but were Ospreys banned from signing overseas coaching staff? Didn't  know  if true.

That is what has been claimed in some quarters.

As soon as a new RSA was negotiated, we get the likes of Pivac and Mulvahill etc. No coincidence.

So the RSAs are negotiated and not forced upon the regions?

Didn't Ospreys have Scott Johnson at one point too?

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 03 May 2019, 1:34 pm

McFadden receives a 6 week ban. Proves that Clancy bottled it (and the TMO).

Personally think he should have received longer than that. Game shouldn't tolerate pops at the head away from the ball. They talk about missing pre-world cup warm up games, being meaningful games. He should miss the end of this season (being potentially 3 games for Leinster if results went their way) and also the first 3 regular season games of next season at the minimum. Possibly 10 weeks would have been a better message, working out at half a regular season rather than just less than a 3rd of a regular season effectively with the 6 weeks (if looked at from a certain angle).

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 May 2019, 1:37 pm

It was more like an Eskimo kiss. In other news the Munster fan who invaded the pitch at the Ricoh arena got a lifetime ban from Thomond and their other stadium. Life is a bit harsh IMO but a ban is fair. Im be curious to know how they think they are going to enforce the ban.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2019/05/03/munster-rugby-statement/

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 1:50 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:McFadden receives a 6 week ban.  Proves that Clancy bottled it (and the TMO).

Personally think he should have received longer than that. Game shouldn't tolerate pops at the head away from the ball.  They talk about missing pre-world cup warm up games, being meaningful games. He should miss the end of this season  (being potentially 3 games for Leinster if results went their way) and also the first 3 regular season games of next season at the minimum.  Possibly 10 weeks would have been a better message, working out at half a regular season rather than just less than a 3rd of a regular season effectively with the 6 weeks (if looked at from a certain angle).

Is it not usually 50% mitigation for a guilty plea? That would mean that it was 12 weeks reduced

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:02 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:McFadden receives a 6 week ban.  Proves that Clancy bottled it (and the TMO).

Personally think he should have received longer than that. Game shouldn't tolerate pops at the head away from the ball.  They talk about missing pre-world cup warm up games, being meaningful games. He should miss the end of this season  (being potentially 3 games for Leinster if results went their way) and also the first 3 regular season games of next season at the minimum.  Possibly 10 weeks would have been a better message, working out at half a regular season rather than just less than a 3rd of a regular season effectively with the 6 weeks (if looked at from a certain angle).

He got a 40% reduction (10 weeks to 6) due to his previous disciplinary record, which includes a 3 week ban for stamping and a 3 week ban for dangerous tackling.

Rugby union can give up the pretend act that it cares about concussion related injuries when suspensions act as zero deterrent.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:09 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:McFadden receives a 6 week ban.  Proves that Clancy bottled it (and the TMO).

Personally think he should have received longer than that. Game shouldn't tolerate pops at the head away from the ball.  They talk about missing pre-world cup warm up games, being meaningful games. He should miss the end of this season  (being potentially 3 games for Leinster if results went their way) and also the first 3 regular season games of next season at the minimum.  Possibly 10 weeks would have been a better message, working out at half a regular season rather than just less than a 3rd of a regular season effectively with the 6 weeks (if looked at from a certain angle).

He got a 40% reduction (10 weeks to 6) due to his previous disciplinary record, which includes a 3 week ban for stamping and a 3 week ban for dangerous tackling.

Rugby union can give up the pretend act that it cares about concussion related injuries when suspensions act as zero deterrent.

Two previous bans equalling 6 weeks over a 15 year career isn't that bad.

I think the chances of getting concussion from that incident are low enough. You dont get concussed every time you bang your head.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:18 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:McFadden receives a 6 week ban.  Proves that Clancy bottled it (and the TMO).

Personally think he should have received longer than that. Game shouldn't tolerate pops at the head away from the ball.  They talk about missing pre-world cup warm up games, being meaningful games. He should miss the end of this season  (being potentially 3 games for Leinster if results went their way) and also the first 3 regular season games of next season at the minimum.  Possibly 10 weeks would have been a better message, working out at half a regular season rather than just less than a 3rd of a regular season effectively with the 6 weeks (if looked at from a certain angle).

He got a 40% reduction (10 weeks to 6) due to his previous disciplinary record, which includes a 3 week ban for stamping and a 3 week ban for dangerous tackling.

Rugby union can give up the pretend act that it cares about concussion related injuries when suspensions act as zero deterrent.

See yet more bs from this one

The Committee took into account the Player’s previous disciplinary record and his good conduct acceptance of culpability, his remorse and his engagement with the instant disciplinary process (including at the hearing) and applied mitigation which reduced the ban to six weeks.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:30 pm

McFadden was completely wrong. I assume it was red mist and that he was probably shocked that he got away with it.
Leinster should do their own opinion on the incident and prove to McFadden that nobody should get away with such antics in a Leinster shirt and no player should be allowed threaten a game either by getting a red for cheap play and potentially in turn dumping the hard work of his team mates into a bin in the process.
That kind of stuff infuriates me. I remember the gouging era when every second week we seemed to be getting yet another gouge or claimed gouge throughout rugby, club and International. And I kept getting angrier because in my mind it showed that the coaches weren't making it clear enough to their players: "No f**king gouging! Ever! Not once! Or you won't be picked for the rest of the f**king year!"

So I think McFadden should be given longer on the sidelines into the new season by Leinster itself: "No f**king head butting! Ever!

BUT.... having said all that and no excuses etc etc. It's the kind of vicious hit that comes after something particularly nasty is said or done. So will we hear from Sean Reidy what he might have said or done to extract a reaction like that from McFadden? Nothing? A totally innocent bystander?
Perhaps.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:39 pm

Early holiday to Dubai for Ferg and Co.

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Post by Guest on Fri 03 May 2019, 2:39 pm

Brought chocolate hobnobs to the hearing. Good lad McFadden. That's another 2 weeks off...

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 6:42 pm

Rugbyfan, self made millionaires don't impress me. Especially when it comes to sport.
You make positive assertion that the Regions were barred from investing in foreign coaching staff, yet that was never an issue with the Regions? Seriously? I mean ..... Seriously?.
I have to think it's nonsense unless you come up with evidence. You won't because there is none.

Bit odd that the WRU employs Gatland yet bars the Regions. Not that I was a fan of Lewis. Just doubtful.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 6:55 pm

Secretfly, that's an excuse when no excuse is good enough. McFadden screwed up. It happens in sport. 6 weeks is about right.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 03 May 2019, 7:25 pm

Lagon wrote:Rugbyfan, self made millionaires don't impress me. Especially when it comes to sport.
You make positive assertion that the Regions were barred from investing in foreign coaching staff, yet that was never an issue with the Regions? Seriously? I mean ..... Seriously?.
I have to think it's nonsense unless you come up with evidence. You won't because there is none.

Bit odd that the WRU employs Gatland yet bars the Regions. Not that I was a fan of Lewis. Just doubtful.

Righto.

The Welsh regions didn't think it was very important to employ the best coaches they could afford, despite spending millions on their rugby squads.



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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 7:26 pm

That was my original point. Still no evidence?
I can't speak for the owners, but fans brushed off the idea of better coaching staff at the time, and now you want to change the narrative...


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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 7:34 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:It was more like an Eskimo kiss. In other news the Munster fan who invaded the pitch at the Ricoh arena got a lifetime ban from Thomond and their other stadium. Life is a bit harsh IMO but a ban is fair. Im be curious to know how they think they are going to enforce the ban.

https://munsterrugby.ie/2019/05/03/munster-rugby-statement/

Are people from Munster this touchy that a fan feels the need to invade the pitch to scream at Vunipola, just because he has a different opinion? They should have let Billy sort him out. A punishment like that would see an end to butt-hurt pitch invaders.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 7:39 pm

'Butt hurt' is probably I'll advised...
The 'so called' fan is an idiot.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:00 pm

Lagon wrote:'Butt hurt' is probably I'll advised...
The 'so called' fan is an idiot.

Why, are you suggesting something?

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:03 pm

Not at all. My point is that your language could be misconstrued as inappropriate. Surely you can comprehend that much?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:06 pm

Lagon wrote:Not at all. My point is that your language could be misconstrued as inappropriate. Surely you can comprehend that much?

Then you must have been suggesting something. Maybe your butt-hurt too, but the thing is, nobody cares about your feelings thumbsup.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:10 pm

Why would I worry about what anyone online thinks about me?
So maybe you really are using "butthurt" as an attack on the protesters sexuality? It's a valid question.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:22 pm

Oh so now you're admitting what you were suggesting, Kid B. Well the answer is no. Now you can stop being butt-hurt.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:24 pm

Who is Kid B?
Sorry, you seem confused.

Seems strange you accuse us both of being "butthurt". Seems like malicious intent to me.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:28 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Oh so now you're admitting what you were suggesting,  Well the answer is no. Now you can stop being butt-hurt.
Now are you less confused?

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:31 pm

Not really. You take a nap and come back when your head is cleared. Done it myself, so won't judge.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:35 pm

Nah I'm good. Don't try and suggest things so you can pick a fight next time, it just derails the thread.

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Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty - Page 5 Empty Re: Interesting that TMO and Clancy thought this was just a penalty

Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:41 pm

I have no intention of picking a fight. Wish I hadn't responded now.
I'm not gay, it's just considering the subject, I thought it better to avoid certain phrases like "butthurt".
Anyway, you have a good night.
P.S I've followed this forum for a while and thought you a decent bloke.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:46 pm

I'm not gay either and I don't know the sexuality of the pitch invader; those things considered as well as the fact that Folau targeted a number of groups of people make your suggestion come across as a little dull. Butt-hurt is the term I always use to describe the easily-offended people who cry on social media 24-7, not a suggestion of anything else other than them being offended too easily. It's a term I stole from the yanks btw. Probably a term best avoided on this subject now though; now we know that!
Thanks mate.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 8:56 pm

Let's take it to the core; the invader was a moron. Deserves a life time ban from all games. No place in rugby for idiots, including the sectarian Leinster idiot for his sectarian abuse. Abuse that was reported by Leinster fans. We all have the odd idiot, but it's not us.

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Post by Lagon on Fri 03 May 2019, 10:23 pm

I didn't make any suggestion as to groups involved.
This is getting weird.
So what if he mentioned all the sins? You've lost me.

Seems you're saying he should be given a pass because he happened to mention all the sins we are guilty of?
Am I right?

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Post by Pete330v2 on Sat 04 May 2019, 10:39 am

This thread has taken a nosedive it seems. Is butthurt now an offensive word?? Wise up!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 04 May 2019, 4:53 pm

Talk about bad refs Owens is shoite. Treviso robbed v Munster.

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Post by Lagon on Sat 04 May 2019, 5:56 pm

Pete, it depends on context. Considering the subject at hand; it's probably not a good idea to describe someone protesting against homophobia as "butthurt".


Last edited by Lagon on Sat 04 May 2019, 6:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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