Sale pushing for the big time with new signings

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Post by Sharkey06 on Wed May 01, 2019 1:46 pm

With the signing of Lood de Jager Sale seem to be making a real push for next season, from being a mid-table team to a team competing for a top 4 place. Add in other new signings Akker Van Der Merwe, Robert Du Preez, Jake Cooper-Woolley, etc plus the recent big name signings De Klerk, Ashton, Ross, O’Connor, Strauss and Solomona, then Sale look like they will have a pretty serious team.

The signing of de Jager who is only 26 looks like a great bit of business. He is seriously big, good in the lineout, quite happy to mix it and we won’t lose him for extended periods of time as we will Tom Curry. A second row of de Jager and Beaumont looks good and with the front row recruits Sale will have a formidable pack next season.
The crowds that Sale get won’t be paying the bills, so we are very dependent on the owners putting in the money. With the rugby league competition (plus the obvious football lot at United and City), we are always going to struggle for supporters to rival the likes of Leicester and Bath. I just hope that we don’t crash and burn.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed May 01, 2019 1:49 pm

Good on Sale. It's great to see a club in soccer heartlands and with relatively low crowds investing private money in a big talented squad.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 1:56 pm

Always good to see investment. As you say sharkey it's ensuring that long term.its sustainable investment and you don't go overboard cough Saracens cough.
Really promising set of players there though.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed May 01, 2019 1:58 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote: As you say sharkey it's ensuring that long term.its sustainable investment and you don't go overboard cough Saracens cough.

What amount of investment is "overboard" ?

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Post by RDW on Wed May 01, 2019 1:58 pm

de Jager is an incredible signing for them.

I just hope they don't become a Wasps - i.e. lots of big money signings under delivering. Sale have done well will academy players and bringing in key players who weren't superstars at the time who fit the mould.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 2:10 pm

Like Saracens for a start or cheating the cap. The other is if the investor owner etc walks away and leaves them up a creek.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed May 01, 2019 2:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:The other is if the investor owner etc walks away and leaves them up a creek.

Has this happenned often in the last 20 or so years of English professional rugby?

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed May 01, 2019 2:41 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Like Saracens for a start or cheating the cap.

And what proof do you have of this ? It's a good thing you are not judge, jury and executioner, and the fact we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty.

No 7&1/2 wrote:The other is if the investor owner etc walks away and leaves them up a creek.

how do you know if they would be up a creek if the owner walked away ?

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Post by marty2086 on Wed May 01, 2019 2:55 pm

Are the Springboks not changing their eligibility criteria post RWC to allow overseas players to get picked?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:08 pm

RDW wrote:de Jager is an incredible signing for them.



It is. The quality of players in the English Premiership now are basically an envy to every other league in the world.

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Post by carpet baboon on Wed May 01, 2019 3:15 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
RDW wrote:de Jager is an incredible signing for them.



It is. The quality of players in the English Premiership now are basically an envy to every other league in the world.

In your opinion

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed May 01, 2019 3:18 pm

Well lets hope that these new signings (for all clubs) are not at the expense of English youth.
Look at France to see what happens to the national side!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:22 pm

Haven't followed things close enough to know the ins and outs of every club rugby fan but around rubbish finances you had London Welshrecently removed by the rfu.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:23 pm

Even the other clubs are now more vocally annoyed at Saracens cheating LD. If you trust them.them I've a bridge in London I'd like to sell you. The creek part comes from the point of not over spending.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:26 pm

Very good point GF. Sale seem to have some great players coming through and it'd be a crying shame to see that stop. They've voiced following the Saracens example and they are generally very good in bringing people through though perhaps a little too slowly in some cases. A strong squad though helps youngsters step up.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed May 01, 2019 3:28 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Even the other clubs are now more vocally annoyed at Saracens cheating LD. If you trust them.them I've a bridge in London I'd like to sell you. The creek part comes from the point of not over spending.

So no proof then ? OK fine. OK

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:33 pm

It's going to be released after the 2015 world cup apparently. Saracens didn't want to spoil the build up to the world cup by damaging England rugby reputation. Selfless guys. It's a but of a diversion to this thread though. The threat to sale is there with transfers and rumoured transfers but detailed discussion on Saracens probably deserves it's own thread. Think there were at least a couple around if you want to contribute. That bridge starts off at 100 grand by the way. Hope you're interested.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed May 01, 2019 3:47 pm

Strange, I have looked but I cannot find anything that bangs Saracens to rights over breaching the salary cap.

I can find no news of investigations, or of court cases or anything. I would be careful of what you saying you think and passing it on as a fact if I were you. Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed May 01, 2019 3:52 pm

Other threads for Saracens talk if you don't want to talk Sale LD. Happy to discuss it there.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed May 01, 2019 5:19 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Strange, I have looked but I cannot find anything that bangs Saracens to rights over breaching the salary cap.

I can find no news of investigations, or of court cases or anything. I would be careful of what you saying you think and passing it on as a fact if I were you. Very Happy


What a complete lack of self awareness. This, coming from you of all people LD! I just spat my coffee out across the office when I read who wrote it. Maybe that’s why your did the smiley face, because you were taking the pi$$ out of yourself?!
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Post by king_carlos on Wed May 01, 2019 5:24 pm

Sale are hotly tipped to add Jean-Luc and Dan du Preez on top of those signings.

1.Ross Harrison
2.Akker van der Merwe
3.Jake Cooper-Wooley
4.Josh Beaumont
5.Lood de Jager
6.Jono Ross
7.Tom Curry
8.Jean-Luc du Preez

9.Faf de Klerk
10.Rob du Preez

11.Marland Yarde
12.Rohan Janse van Rensburg
13.Sam James
14.Denny Solomona
15.Chris Ashton

It's a potent looking starting XV that's for sure.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed May 01, 2019 6:12 pm

More like Natal Sharks than Sale Sharks!
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Post by king_carlos on Wed May 01, 2019 6:53 pm

The Oracle wrote:More like Natal Sharks than Sale Sharks!
Very true but at the end of the day that's for the RFU rather than Sale to worry about.

There are academy credits included in the salary cap to encourage sides to field home grown players. There are also payments for fielding a certain number of EQP players in the Premiership. If clubs do choose to forgo those payments then they technically can though.

There are rules around the number of 'foreign players' that a side can have on the field at any one time but most Saffas (Kolpak) and EU (Bosman ruling) fall outside this. Whether the legal situation there may change is up for debate - a debate I am completely unqualified to have!

From an England perspective there is also an argument that producing one Tom Curry is more valuable to improving the England side than producing 3 or 4 fringe EPS players.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed May 01, 2019 8:39 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
RDW wrote:de Jager is an incredible signing for them.



It is. The quality of players in the English Premiership now are basically an envy to every other league in the world.

Crusaders play in the Super Rugby competition not the premiership, they develop world class players every year.

The quality of players in the English premiership is probably less than what the Top 14 continues to bring in, and better to see a team full of home-grown talent like Leinster beat all of them IMO.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed May 01, 2019 8:40 pm

king_carlos wrote:Sale are hotly tipped to add Jean-Luc and Dan du Preez on top of those signings.

1.Ross Harrison
2.Akker van der Merwe
3.Jake Cooper-Wooley
4.Josh Beaumont
5.Lood de Jager
6.Jono Ross
7.Tom Curry
8.Jean-Luc du Preez

9.Faf de Klerk
10.Rob du Preez

11.Marland Yarde
12.Rohan Janse van Rensburg
13.Sam James
14.Denny Solomona
15.Chris Ashton

It's a potent looking starting XV that's for sure.

Wow so what's that, 4 players from the academy there?

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Post by king_carlos on Wed May 01, 2019 8:55 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Sale are hotly tipped to add Jean-Luc and Dan du Preez on top of those signings.

1.Ross Harrison
2.Akker van der Merwe
3.Jake Cooper-Wooley
4.Josh Beaumont
5.Lood de Jager
6.Jono Ross
7.Tom Curry
8.Jean-Luc du Preez

9.Faf de Klerk
10.Rob du Preez

11.Marland Yarde
12.Rohan Janse van Rensburg
13.Sam James
14.Denny Solomona
15.Chris Ashton

It's a potent looking starting XV that's for sure.

Wow so what's that, 4 players from the academy there?
Yep. That is of course a hypothetical side I've named though. Not exactly coming from Steve Diamond this drivel I type!

There are more academy grads in the squad and strong prospects such as Nic Dolly, Sam Moore, Gus Warr, Kieran Wilkinson, Cameron Redpath, Connor Doherty, Luke James and Arron Reed coming through.

Strengthening a squad with imports can then give more chance to drip feed youngsters through. Sarries solidified their Premiership standing with overseas signings then steadily brought through their very impressive production line of academy products.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed May 01, 2019 9:06 pm

Yeah I know of a few teams who could do with that, just seems very Toulon right now.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed May 01, 2019 10:35 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Yeah I know of a few teams who could do with that, just seems very Toulon right now.
Agree completely that it's a lot of overseas recruitment over a singe close season, mikey. That big a contingent from one nation makes it more distinctive as well.

Sale have built a very solid side with a tiny a squad and small salary budget though. Now they are finally going up to the cap and using their marquee spots. Increasing salary spending by as much as they are it makes sense to target players you couldn't afford in normal circumstances. I've a lot of respect for how Diamond seems to be planning Sale's growth.

Had Toulon developed a legacy following the Wilkinson and Hayman years then they wouldn't be where they are now. Boudjellal stumbled on the perfect man when Wilkinson managed to resurrect his career there. Wilko felt a sense of responsibility and they built a squad around it with a hell of a work ethic as well as the talent. Hayman arguably doing a similar amount as Wilkinson did.

Following Wilkinson and Hayman came Lobbe, Smith, Sheridan, Shaw, Giteau, Armitage x 2, Masoe, etc. Suddenly they had a ready made squad full of leaders. I'm not saying money didn't attract them, obviously it did, but the current side is evidence that money didn't make them play like Heineken Cup winners 3 years in a row.

As those leaders left so did the ethic and now they are left with Boudjellal's ego creating a pretty toxic environment.

If Sale filter their impressive academy players into a strong squad then Diamond should leave a good legacy. If not then it will likely be a brief surge before contracts expire.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed May 01, 2019 11:49 pm

South African clubs always produce good players, especially big forwards and they're good value for money compared to ex All Blacks. I'd wager that it's mostly South Africans that make up the overseas player recruitment in most rugby nations. The good news for Sale is that they have a decent academy and that their investor isn’t Boudjellal.

You forgot Williams and Botha at lock. That Toulon side was probably the best ever club team assembled. Money a big factor but also so many class players getting to play alongside each other in the south of France.

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Post by king_carlos on Thu May 02, 2019 1:51 am

I was just listing players off the top of my head so didn't intentionally miss them off. Botha in particular was excellent for Toulon though.

It's crazy that just 10 years ago SBW made the move to Union at Toulon whilst Tana Umaga was coaching with them. Since then they've reached some impressive heights and had some more recent ridiculous lows. Boudjellal's spat with Savea being a very public one.

You do have to feel for Guirado having to put up with the management troubles of Toulon and France. He's a terrific player and captain.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu May 02, 2019 6:36 pm

It was some team, but also pretty decent in the SBW days.

Speaking of Sale's academy players, they have a Welsh TH I believe, Joe Jones. Originally from North Wales he spent some time in their age grade setup as a teen before joining Cardiff where he didn't really progress. I think he's back at Sale now and probably down the pecking order. I always wondered what happened to him as he showed a lot of promise; a solid lump who always used to destroy his opposition in the scrum.

Will-Griff John seems to be doing alright too, there's a few Welsh teams who could do with his services...

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