Gatland to lead the Lions in 2021.......again!

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri May 10, 2019 7:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

Gatland to lead the Lions to SA in 2021

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48224634?filter=none


I guess this rules him out of the England job post RWC, guess he is waiting for the All Blacks, still. thumbsup


Last edited by TightHEAD on Fri May 10, 2019 7:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by maestegmafia on Tue May 14, 2019 5:13 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Explain your thoughts, how are the teams who didn’t win the six nations better than the one that did? What is wrong with the successful way in which wales play? And why would Gatland be detrimental to the lions effort.

You are not saying much to back up your thoughts, just attempting some sort of attempted condescension...!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 5:17 am

I assume you mean win rather than want? The 6 nations isn't a league so doesn't necessarily produce the best team as winner as we've seen this year. As to style of play I have no issue with how Wales play. It's a way they're forced into fair play.
In so far as the lions Gatland and his coaches haven't been great at bringing teams together stodgy bad picks player wise and far too slow to adapt.
Hey you're the one saying silly things maes. I can't help that.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue May 14, 2019 5:20 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume you mean win rather than want? The 6 nations isn't a league so doesn't necessarily produce the best team as winner as we've seen this year. As to style of play I have no issue with how Wales play. It's a way they're forced into fair play.
In so far as the lions Gatland and his coaches haven't been great at bringing teams together stodgy bad picks player wise and far too slow to adapt.
Hey you're the one saying silly things maes. I can't help that.

I’m sorry I don’t understand what you mean there claiming I’m saying silly things?

Wales won grandslam

Beat all the home nations

Have been ranked higher in the rankings for a while

Unbeaten in over a year

Not sure what you are referring too?

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Post by BigGee on Tue May 14, 2019 5:23 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Well you may think England are the best team in the world, but the facts certainly suggest otherwise. Wales did win the GS this year at a canter in the end after all the others, England included, flattered to deceive.

Still the Lions tour is two years away and there is a lot of rugby to be played before then. It is way to soon to be getting excited about who may or may not be going on the next tour, all we know for now is that Gats is going to be the head coach and even I, who has been very suspicious about his previous selections, can see why he got the gig based on his track record with the Lions and with Wales.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 5:24 am

Back to your old ways then maes. You're going to look pretty silly in a couple of months

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue May 14, 2019 5:26 am

BigGee wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lol right you are maes. Dear me.

Well you may think England are the best team in the world, but the facts certainly suggest otherwise. Wales did win the GS this year at a canter in the end after all the others, England included, flattered to deceive.

Still the Lions tour is two years away and there is a lot of rugby to be played before then. It is way to soon to be getting excited about who may or may not be going on the next tour, all we know for now is that Gats is going to be the head coach and even I, who has been very suspicious about his previous selections, can see why he got the gig based on his track record with the Lions and with Wales.

I’m looking forward to seeing the progress, this really could be a great Lions team. With so much competition for places two years out, we look in great stead going forward.

I think it is a very exciting reality.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 5:27 am

Back to back losses coming in your next 2 games. Hope you don't mind being reminded of that as you limp into the wc!

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 5:29 am

Running on empty for a lot of last year true enough beegee. We only turned the poorer teams home and away.

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Post by BigGee on Tue May 14, 2019 6:47 am

A bit to much WUMing on this thread 71/2,verging on the personal, it is not condusive to good debate. Please reign it in a bit so we can have a sensible discussion

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:51 am

Because maes meant to be conducive to good debate with his response to tight head? In that case apologies though there was nothing personal. No Wales aren't the best team, certainly not everyone 'knows it'. And the past couple of lions tours have shown reluctance to adapt and far too much reliance on players who were coming back from injury or indeed were still injured when picked.
You could say it was a set plan on a way to play or keeping his players happy for when he returned to Wales.
We can but hope he doesn't need to that anymore and actually give us the best chance. The past 2 tours give me little hope.

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Post by Cyril on Tue May 14, 2019 8:56 am

Have to agree with 7 1/2. No red pen for a mod? Who watches the watchmen?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue May 14, 2019 9:15 am

It’s really hard to understand what tight head and 7.5 are getting at, unless they’re wumming? How is 7.5 still permitted to comment on topics in this forum after these personal attacks against someone disagreeing with his claim that England are the best in the 6N/world?
Cyril that’s poor. We KNOW by now that you hate maestegmafia but all he’s done is constructively disagree on what was just mentioned about England. I would suggest backing off now.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue May 14, 2019 9:18 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Back to back losses coming in your next 2 games. Hope you don't mind being reminded of that as you limp into the wc!

Plenty of lemon and lime here. It’s just another silly statement to make laughing.

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Post by Cyril on Tue May 14, 2019 9:22 am

Mikey, no one hates anyone else on here. That would be crazy. It’s just rugby. If two posters (mods or not) have a bit of tit-for-tat it’s fair that both (or neither) get admonished. No?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue May 14, 2019 9:46 am

I didn’t see that though, except from 7.5 who got personal after someone disagreed with his ridiculous claims.

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Post by Cyril on Tue May 14, 2019 10:19 am

Nothing ridiculous. Just two guys commenting yeah?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue May 14, 2019 12:36 pm

Claiming you’re the best in the world after losing to Wales and drawing with Scotland is a ridiculous claim yeah.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 4:03 pm

Of course it isn't.

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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 5:45 pm

2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue May 14, 2019 6:36 pm

Is Sir Clive Woodward not available? Whistle

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 7:38 pm

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 7:44 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 7:57 pm

Gatland picks the players he and his coaches knows and trusts. With such short preparation time it i shard to do anything else.

One prime example from 2013 was the addition of Corbs ahead of Grant when Gethin Jenkins went down. Rowntree has been pilloried for his comments about Grant, but fact is he knew and trusted the ability of Corbs and Gatland backed his judgement. It is hard to say they were wrong with what followed.

There will always be contentious calls, but usually the coaches will be making decisions, even wrong ones, for the right reasons. SCW was palpably wrong in what he did - but he did it because he thought it was the best way to win. 2001 was perhaps one time when a coach made poor decisions for the wrong reasons with Henry having admitted that he made some decisions having weighed up how he would cope with the dressing room when returning to national duties.

If there are Scottish coaches in the next party then Scotland will get a higher representation. Otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 8:01 pm

alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come

Please explain ?

Gatland obviously gets more out of the Welsh players than Howley could. Also, Scotland have beaten Wales twice in about a decade and a half. Why should their players be classed as better ?

In 18 games, home and away the record is 16 games won by Wales 2 Games won by Scotland, I had to go back 16 years since Scotland were properly competitive with Wales.

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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:02 pm

"otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021"

agree with this 100% clap
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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 8:04 pm

So if coaches from other nations who may coach the Lions do not pick any Scottish players, will they be bent as well ?

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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:07 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

Wales 10 pts
Scotland 14pts


2017 Lions Tour

Wales Players 13
Scottish 5

absolutely nothing to do with form, zip. pure bias

Gatland was not in Charge of Wales in 2017.

he was in charge of the lions in 2017, hes as bent as they come

Please explain ?

Gatland obviously gets more out of the Welsh players than Howley could. Also, Scotland have beaten Wales twice in about a decade and a half. Why should their players be classed as better ?

In 18 games, home and away the record is 16 games won by Wales 2 Games won by Scotland, I had to go back 16 years since Scotland were properly competitive with Wales.

what the hell has that got to do with 2017 - zip !

your gatland picked 3 times more welsh than scots immediatley after the scots got 40% more points in the 6 nations. worse still of the initial squad he picked only 2. as biased as they come.

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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:11 pm

LordDowlais wrote:So if coaches from other nations who may coach the Lions do not pick any Scottish players, will they be bent as well ?

of course

all the other nations were underrepresented by Gatland . There were more welsh than irish fgs.


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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 8:17 pm

alive555 wrote:"otherwise they may well need to win the slam in 2021"

agree with this 100% clap

It is not unreasonable though. Coaches will always err on the side of those they trust. It is not being crooked or bent. It is a bias but an understandable one.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 8:20 pm

It's make more sense if he was thrown in blind to make selections though. He had about a year to prep didn't he?

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Post by eirebilly on Tue May 14, 2019 8:37 pm

I have no issues with Gatland leading the Lions again. Think that he has been the best Lions coach I have seen. I don't care who he picks either as long as he (and he has done before) gets the job done.
I don't think that he is overly bias, he is probably guilty of selecting on familiarity and that is something I feel most coaches would do.

All that said, I was kind of hoping Stuart Lancaster got the job. I think he is an amazing coach and one that would form a decent squad.
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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 9:00 pm

2017 6 Nations

# Country Pts
1 England 19
2 Ireland 14
3 France 14
4 Scotland 14 1 player
5 Wales 10 10 players
6 Italy 0

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Post by The Oracle on Tue May 14, 2019 9:03 pm

Surely a coach can pick who he wants? Or should we gather all of the rugby fans in a big room and get us to select who we think by pressing buttons on a voting system? And then make the coach go with who we've selected?
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Post by rodders on Tue May 14, 2019 9:28 pm

Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.
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Post by BamBam on Tue May 14, 2019 9:31 pm

rodders wrote:Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.

I agree with this, although as a current coach, I wouldn't go for Townsend either. Cotter/Lancaster/Schmidt would have all be better options as recent international coaches with strong grounding in the NH game


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Post by alive555 on Tue May 14, 2019 9:48 pm

BamBam wrote:
rodders wrote:Based on results it's hard to criticize Gats getting another run. For me though he just has never got what the Lions is about, that it isn't just about winning the series but uniting the squad and fans.

Townsend would have been a better choice in my opinion. The 6n didn't go well for Scotland but he was a pivotal player in 1997 and has a great track record as a coach with Glasgow.

I agree with this, although as a current coach, I wouldn't go for Townsend either. Cotter/Lancaster/Schmidt would have all be better options as recent international coaches with strong grounding in the NH game


agree 100%.
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Post by RiscaGame on Tue May 14, 2019 10:11 pm

How did Gatland not unite the squad? I have seen no reports of disharmony, from either of his tours. I would wager that the fans who tour are pretty behind it too.

Unfortunately, Gatland is going to have to form an idea of his squad pretty early once he gets the gig. So whilst Scotland might've finished above Wales in one tournament, it doesn't make them better players for what has been proven to be a pretty one off event. I suspect their performance in 17 is why they got 5 (some added late), otherwise the likes of Seymour and Laidlaw might not have even toured.

It's easy to say 10 Welsh players and 5 Scottish players isn't fair, without backing it up. I am unsure really which of the 10 Welsh players were not deserving of their place and there doesn't seem to be much in the way of discussion on here about it either, unsurprisingly.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue May 14, 2019 10:32 pm

alive555 wrote:2017 6 Nations

#      Country     Pts                    
1 England 19
2 Ireland 14
3 France 14
4 Scotland 14    1 player
5 Wales 10  10 players
6 Italy 0


No wonder they never had any tourists!!!
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 10:34 pm

Moriarty was perhaps the most contentious choice but it is unlikely he kept out a Scot. Russell perhaps the most contentious omission from Scotland, but his headless chicken act at Twickenham that year would have counted against him.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 10:37 pm

OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 10:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.
What is the squad size?

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.
What is the squad size?

It was 36 last time wasn't it ? Lets go with that.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 10:50 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:OK then, lets talk now, if the Lions were now, how many from each nation would you take ? Don't name them, just give numbers, the finer details we can discuss later.
What is the squad size?

It was 36 last time wasn't it ? Lets go with that.

9 of each of course Run

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue May 14, 2019 10:58 pm

43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue May 14, 2019 10:59 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

OK go with that then.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 11:00 pm

There would be a difference in my selection between right now and on current form but players being 2 years older - ie AWJ woudl go this summer but not in 2021 when 36 and possibly retired.



English 12, Welsh 9, Irish 6, Scots 6, 3 undecided.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 11:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:43 last time before the Welsh tourists were added.

41 I believe. Haskell and Laidlaw replaced Billy and Youngs prior to departure.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39639299


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 11:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by tigertattie on Tue May 14, 2019 11:06 pm

For me the Lions team/sqaud as a test 23 would be

Forwards
England, Scotland, Ireland
Wales, England
Ireland, England, Scotland

Backs
Ireland
Scotland
Ireland
Ireland
Wales
Ireland
Scotland

Ireland, Ireland, England
England
Ireland
Wales
Ireland

5 English
10 Irish
4 Scottish
3 Welsh

Now that is based purely on who I feel is the better player in each position. I'm not counting things like team dynamics or combinations such as you may want to play an all ireland front row on the bench for familiarity

Also this is not a Wum, it's genuinely who I feel are the better players.
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 11:09 pm

Two Irish wingers tt? (Also only 22 listed)

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue May 14, 2019 11:12 pm

On current form I would definitely have a Welsh FB.

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