NZ Government Fast Tracking Talented 7s' Citizenship

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 17 May 2019, 1:05 pm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sevens/112214328/athletes-seeking-new-zealand-citizenship-ahead-of-next-years-olympic-games

Like a lot of countries 5 years residency is required for citizenship in NZ. However, for promising athletes including prospective 7s players from the islands the NZ government will make exceptions in order to fast track them for citizenship so that they can qualify for the Olympics.

Do you believe that this is right wrong or are you indifferent?

It certainly does quite fit with the narrative that NZ is all give and no take when it comes to residency qualified players.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 17 May 2019, 1:42 pm

I'm happy to take a pop at hypocrisy but NZ are fine on this front.

There's a difference between residence and permanent residence (in the UK, the latter is called indefinite leave to remain). The UK allows you to apply for citizenship if you have a year of permanent residency. The NZ standard, therefore is much stricter. The article says Joe Ravouvou had been in NZ six years before getting permanent residency. That would have been enough time to get him citizenship in the UK.

From a practical point of view, there's a time limit on professional athletes being able to contribute their skills to their chosen country. I have no problem making an exemption in those cases, especially when the exemption is no more advantageous than the policies in place in other countries.

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Post by ebop on Fri 17 May 2019, 1:56 pm

Guns, lol

egg on Leprechaun
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 17 May 2019, 2:04 pm

NZ Government Fast Tracking Talented 7s' Citizenship Nopoac11

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Post by ebop on Fri 17 May 2019, 2:09 pm

To be fair, Rugby Fan with superior knowledge did make you look like a bit of a fool. Do you reckon Ireland will ever have a home grown national coach Guns? How long has it been?
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Post by Taylorman on Sat 18 May 2019, 4:16 pm

And below the quoted article one on why Goodhue has only signed on for one year, the obvious concern being hed be open to offers from yes, you guessed it, the north.

Oh, the poaching irony. Laugh

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Post by Pie on Sat 18 May 2019, 7:24 pm

It still suggests that 'NZ' rugby regards the islands as its own special little nursery and no doubt is why the proposed World Rugby competition was going to deny the PI involvement as nobody would want to deal with an NZRFU tantrum.

Whats most amusing though is how any player/coach choosing to go up North to make some real money is then treated as a pariah by NZ.

Be clear: it is A ok for NZ to poach PI players but NOT OK for those players to choose to play in the North.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 19 May 2019, 3:37 am

Pie wrote:It still suggests that 'NZ' rugby regards the islands as its own special little nursery and no doubt is why the proposed World Rugby competition was going to deny the PI involvement as nobody would want to deal with an NZRFU tantrum.

Whats most amusing though is how any player/coach choosing to go up North to make some real money is then treated as a pariah by NZ.

Be clear: it is A ok for NZ to poach PI players but NOT OK for those players to choose to play in the North.

The poaching difference for the billionth time pie is we dont poach pro’s. Theyre zero percent pro when they move here. And very few make it to pro. You get 100% fully proven pro’s in every case. The work is done. To never understand that difference is disappointing, but explains the laziness of the north, who are not the dyi’s of rugby that we are, theyre the get the wallet out and pay for it types, dont bother me with the detail type.

It shows, because its the players and coaches we send that do the hard work.

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Post by Pie on Sun 19 May 2019, 3:47 am

Yeah you just ship em all in to the Super rugby meat grinder; some have the sense to come to the North, others get swallowed up in poorly paid rugby while yet more others get used up told they're not good enough and get sent home.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 19 May 2019, 4:28 am

Ah yes, that grinder thats produced four out of the five world cups since its inception? The grinder that meant no NH sides made the last four in the most r3cent version? A first? Its getting worse perhaps?

That grinder you mean?

By the way, what grinder do your players use to make them so uncompetitive at world cup time pie?

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Post by ebop on Sun 19 May 2019, 5:27 am

Took the words right out of my mouth Tman. What is this grinder that pie talks of? Maybe what pie means is that the NH was so sick of being whipping boys they imported as many SH players and kiwi coaches as they could to be at least competitive and then stuck all the no-hope locals in a grinder and said ‘nothing to see here folks’.
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Post by Pie on Sun 19 May 2019, 6:25 am

You have no idea how much I love watching you two bite....its fracking hilarious how easy it is to get you two ranting Yahoo Yahoo

Like the Waldorf and Stetler of 606v2

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Post by ebop on Sun 19 May 2019, 7:24 am

Who’s ranting pie? It’s actually good fun rubbing your nose in dog poop so thanks for the opportunity.
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 19 May 2019, 10:46 am

Yes the line you use when youve nothing left, or, in this case, to start with. egg

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Post by Pie on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:18 pm

Like I said, a crusty old double act who rely on each others support and as individuals offer nothing. Bit like Umaga and Mealamu.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 20 May 2019, 11:59 pm

..and the crying continues...14 years later. Then more when Gats dropped the Saint to succeed with the Lions. More tears than Watership Down... Laugh

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Post by quinsforever on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:10 pm

Sorry to burst the NZ gloating bubble...but the UK rules ARE stricter than NZ's reducing almost all the above posts to pointless

"You can apply for UK citizenship after 5 years of residence (sooner in some cases) if you have been a permanent resident for 12 months."

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Post by quinsforever on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:12 pm

from uk govt website...

"You can apply as soon as you’ve got ‘permanent residence status’.

You usually qualify automatically for permanent residence status if you’ve been living in the UK for at least 5 years and you’re doing one of the following:"

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:16 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Pie wrote:It still suggests that 'NZ' rugby regards the islands as its own special little nursery and no doubt is why the proposed World Rugby competition was going to deny the PI involvement as nobody would want to deal with an NZRFU tantrum.

Whats most amusing though is how any player/coach choosing to go up North to make some real money is then treated as a pariah by NZ.

Be clear: it is A ok for NZ to poach PI players but NOT OK for those players to choose to play in the North.

The poaching difference for the billionth time pie is we dont poach pro’s. Theyre zero percent pro when they move here. And very few make it to pro. You get 100% fully proven pro’s in every case. The work is done. To never understand that difference is disappointing, but explains the laziness of the north, who are not the dyi’s of rugby that we are, theyre the get the wallet out and pay for it types, dont bother me with the detail type.

It shows, because its the players and coaches we send that do the hard work.
Does that really make it better when the likes of Naholo, seta tamanivalu, Feikitoa etc end up playing for the ABs anyway? I completely understand why these players choose to put AB caps onto their CVs as they can demand much larger contracts abroad but I really would love to see tier 2 nations being allowed to reclaim these players after a certain length of time instead of them never playing international rugby again


Last edited by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:21 pm

Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

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Post by quinsforever on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:29 pm

the reality is

there's precious little difference between NZ snagging youngsters before they turn pro, and NH nations snagging pros before they play for their SH country.

The only ones in denial about this seem to be some kiwi posters here.

If everyone were a little more honest i am we would agree on this! it's really a fake argument.

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Post by ebop on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:30 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

picard
Yet you fail to list the NZers that have historically made up the bulk of some Pacific Islands national rugby teams. Some of which have humiliated their more fancied NH opponents.

picard
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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Tue 21 May 2019, 9:41 pm

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

picard
Yet you fail to list the NZers that have historically made up the bulk of some Pacific Islands national rugby teams. Some of which have humiliated their more fancied NH opponents.

picard
You do realise most (if not all) of those players actually consider themselves as Pacific Islanders and are incredibly proud to represent where their families come from? The likes of Ma Nonu and Keven Mealamu have said before that they had always dreamt of playing for Samoa growing up despite having never lived there. You also have the famous case in rugby League where Andrew Fafita, Jason taumalolo and Tevita Pangai Junior turning their backs on their nations weeks before the world cup to represent the nations their parents came from.

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Post by ebop on Tue 21 May 2019, 10:32 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

picard

Yet you fail to list the NZers that have historically made up the bulk of some Pacific Islands national rugby teams. Some of which have humiliated their more fancied NH opponents.

picard

You do realise most (if not all) of those players actually consider themselves as Pacific Islanders and are incredibly proud to represent where their families come from?

Who said they weren’t proud of where their families are from? Not me. The fact remains, born in NZ to parents that are permanent residents, you’re officially a NZer. As most of those players I’m referring to are/were. Guns cherry picks two players but forgets to list all the others that ‘do’ represent the Islands. NZ has a massive Pacific Island population and their culture is interwoven into the fabric of NZ. I get the impression people here think the archetypal NZer is a person with British ancestry.
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Post by Taylorman on Thu 23 May 2019, 1:46 am

quinsforever wrote:the reality is

there's precious little difference between NZ snagging youngsters before they turn pro, and NH nations snagging pros before they play for their SH country.

The only ones in denial about this seem to be some kiwi posters here.

If everyone were a little more honest i am we would agree on this! it's really a fake argument.

Little difference? Aha, then why are the clubs not going to the Islands to contract schoolkids?

Why? Because they aint NZ trained yet, and history shows your lot can't coach or train youngsters to anywhere near the level we do.

The best new young back in 5 years in the NH? Stockdale?

pfff...get the cheque book out sonny. laughing

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 23 May 2019, 1:48 am

ebop wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

picard

Yet you fail to list the NZers that have historically made up the bulk of some Pacific Islands national rugby teams. Some of which have humiliated their more fancied NH opponents.

picard

You do realise most (if not all) of those players actually consider themselves as Pacific Islanders and are incredibly proud to represent where their families come from?

Who said they weren’t proud of where their families are from? Not me. The fact remains, born in NZ to parents that are permanent residents, you’re officially a NZer. As most of those players I’m referring to are/were. Guns cherry picks two players but forgets to list all the others that ‘do’ represent the Islands. NZ has a massive Pacific Island population and their culture is interwoven into the fabric of NZ. I get the impression people here think the archetypal NZer is a person with British ancestry.

Exactly, half the World cup Samoan squad were born in NZ. Oh, and once we've trained them, the NH clubs pick them up as well, cos no need to stay in NZ, they can play for Samoa, Tonga etc from there. Tis a flipin joke.

They tend to forget that

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Thu 23 May 2019, 8:38 am

Taylorman wrote:
ebop wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Fifeta and Frizzell were promising schoolboys with underage caps for their countries too. Dont forget though it only counts as poaching if you are a pro. Hmmm convenient excuse given that there isnt pro rugby in Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

picard

Yet you fail to list the NZers that have historically made up the bulk of some Pacific Islands national rugby teams. Some of which have humiliated their more fancied NH opponents.

picard

You do realise most (if not all) of those players actually consider themselves as Pacific Islanders and are incredibly proud to represent where their families come from?

Who said they weren’t proud of where their families are from? Not me. The fact remains, born in NZ to parents that are permanent residents, you’re officially a NZer. As most of those players I’m referring to are/were. Guns cherry picks two players but forgets to list all the others that ‘do’ represent the Islands. NZ has a massive Pacific Island population and their culture is interwoven into the fabric of NZ. I get the impression people here think the archetypal NZer is a person with British ancestry.

Exactly, half the World cup Samoan squad were born in NZ. Oh, and once we've trained them, the NH clubs pick them up as well, cos no need to stay in NZ, they can play for Samoa, Tonga etc from there. Tis a flipin joke.

They tend to forget that
They can't stay in NZ due to the restrictions on foreign players. Sevu Reece has had to decline a call up to Fiji in order to keep playing super rugby, another Fijian lost to NZ.

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Post by R!skysports on Thu 23 May 2019, 4:23 pm

Don't the SH teams also poach refs to help them win World Cups - just asking lol

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 23 May 2019, 5:21 pm

You mean Barnes? Nah, got beaten down on price. French money is stronger.

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