A Leo Cullen own goal

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Post by Heuer27 on Sat 18 May 2019, 8:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

This popped up on my Facebook feed. This we don’t need

https://mobile.twitter.com/ballsdotie/status/1129782609779798016?s=19 warning

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Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:06 pm

Collapse, saying all Glasgow fans/ players support Rangers implicitly suggests the organisation has an identity that is one side of the sectarian divide.

Reducing sports and politics to Catholic/Protestant is a massive social issue in Scotland - hundreds of thousands of pounds are being spent on combatting it.

Leo Cullen is normalising it, and if I were a Glasgow fan, I'd be deeply irritated, given how important it clearly is to the club not to fall into that trap.

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Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:12 pm

And a "wag" is a witty or funny person.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:47 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
eirebilly wrote:This all really does seem to be blown out of all proportions...
Not really surprising in this day and age unfortunately. It's amazing that calling on Celtic fans for support is seen as sectarian, especially when Celtic as a club and their fans have always welcomed protestant players and managers to the club.

Rugby fan from Ireland doesn’t understand the ongoing blight of sectarianism in Scottish football; tells Scots, from his home across the sea, that they are making a fuss over nothing.

Irelandsplaining?
I was a Celtic fan growing up and have attended games in the past, I think I know a thing or two. If you think that the main problem is a sectarian one then I'm afraid it is you that doesn't understand.
The problems go way deeper than religion, I can bet my life that most Rangers and Celtic ultras don't attend mass every Sunday but of course the media and governments try to simplify everything. It would be a hell of a lot more correct to say it was a nationalist v loyalist problem, hence why when you go to an old firm game it's like being at an international match.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:53 pm

Thats what it looks like to me too.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 20 May 2019, 6:55 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Collapse, saying all Glasgow fans/ players support Rangers implicitly suggests the organisation has an identity that is one side of the sectarian divide.

Reducing sports and politics to Catholic/Protestant is a massive social issue in Scotland - hundreds of thousands of pounds are being spent on combatting it.

Leo Cullen is normalising it, and if I were a Glasgow fan, I'd be deeply irritated, given how important it clearly is to the club not to fall into that trap.

Oh for god sake he isnt normalizing anything. Its you thats insisting that sectarianism is the only identity these clubs have.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 20 May 2019, 7:14 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:And a "wag" is a witty or funny person.
Or wife and girlfriend...

Dogs do it too.
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Post by Don Alfonso on Mon 20 May 2019, 7:36 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
eirebilly wrote:This all really does seem to be blown out of all proportions...
Not really surprising in this day and age unfortunately. It's amazing that calling on Celtic fans for support is seen as sectarian, especially when Celtic as a club and their fans have always welcomed protestant players and managers to the club.

Rugby fan from Ireland doesn’t understand the ongoing blight of sectarianism in Scottish football; tells Scots, from his home across the sea, that they are making a fuss over nothing.

Irelandsplaining?
I was a Celtic fan growing up and have attended games in the past, I think I know a thing or two. If you think that the main problem is a sectarian one then I'm afraid it is you that doesn't understand.
The problems go way deeper than religion, I can bet my life that most Rangers and Celtic ultras don't attend mass every Sunday but of course the media and governments try to simplify everything. It would be a hell of a lot more correct to say it was a nationalist v loyalist problem, hence why when you go to an old firm game it's like being at an international match.

I'm from Belfast, from a part Scottish family and lived in Scotland for years.

While I'm delighted that you've been to some Celtic games, I think that the Scots are much better at defining their own issues. While you might think you're dreadfully clever fighting the bit out with a semantic deconstruction of the word "sectarian", it doesn't really matter when someone is getting a kicking in the West End of Glasgow at three in the morning.

They call it sectarianism, and whether a love of etymology makes you want to quibble about
the religious nature of the term, people are facing physical violence and intimidation. So, y'know, well done on owning a thesaurus, but no-one gives a toss what it's called, they want it to stop. And they don't want it creeping into Scottish rugby.

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Post by Lagon on Mon 20 May 2019, 9:17 pm

I'm from Belfast, and now Bangor. I've seen a few bombs go off. Some bombs really close. I know what sectarianism can do.
I really do understand why Glasgow Warriors supporters would be upset. I've actually lived with the blight of sectarianism and understand the dangers all to well.
I doubt very much that Cullen actually meant to stir this sort of debate, but when it comes to Old Firm anyone with any sense is better not going there, when it comes to rugby.
I don't blame Leinster supporters for thinking the way they do, but do think they are a bit out of touch about the depth of animosity that runs deep beneath.


Last edited by Lagon on Mon 20 May 2019, 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Lagon on Mon 20 May 2019, 9:31 pm

I think it better to close this discussion down now. It leaves a bad taste.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 20 May 2019, 10:23 pm

Actually what I notice in Belfast these days is people are far more interested in Liverpool and Man Utd than they are in the Old Firm.
Better football, less hassle and a more enjoyable match day experience.

Let the Old firm die, they are top dogs in a country where football gets worse year on year and the national team area laughing stock

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Post by Lagon on Mon 20 May 2019, 10:42 pm

I hope so, Geoff.
I'm not blaming Cullen. A genuine mistake.
I have seen a rise in republican IRA. Lyra Mckee paid the price for being a target. Another Innocent target of the IRA. When it comes to hate; I hate them.
I want Northern Ireland to move on. It will not with conflict politics on both sides leading the way

I doubt Lrya was a target, specifically, but she was a target as an innocent.


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Post by RDW on Tue 21 May 2019, 7:44 am

Don Alfonso wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
eirebilly wrote:This all really does seem to be blown out of all proportions...
Not really surprising in this day and age unfortunately. It's amazing that calling on Celtic fans for support is seen as sectarian, especially when Celtic as a club and their fans have always welcomed protestant players and managers to the club.

Rugby fan from Ireland doesn’t understand the ongoing blight of sectarianism in Scottish football; tells Scots, from his home across the sea, that they are making a fuss over nothing.

Irelandsplaining?

Laugh

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Post by BigGee on Tue 21 May 2019, 8:07 am

An interview with the legendary Jim Craig, one of the surviving Lisbon Lions, whose son was a rugby players for Glasgow in the 1990's, in the Scotsman.

As a link between the two games he was at Celtic Park to promote the game and was not to thrilled at LCs comments.


Leinster boss Leo Cullen’s attempts to stoke a bit of division in the host city of Saturday evening’s Guinness Pro14 final at Celtic Park were given
a firm riposte yesterday by Lisbon Lion legend Jim Craig, who nailed his colours firmly to the Glasgow Warriors mast.

After winning their semi-final against Munster in Dublin a day after Glasgow had thumped Ulster 50-20 at Scotstoun, Cullen said: “I am sure all the Celtic fans will be out supporting Leinster because 
I believe Glasgow are all 
Rangers supporters.”




Considering there is the small matter of the Scottish Cup football final against Hearts at Hampden in the afternoon, how many Celtic fans will be in attendance is a moot point but Craig, who was right-back in that famous team who became the first British European Cup winners in 1967, was having none of Cullen’s comment.




“It’s nonsense, like a lot of things like that,” said the 76-year-old. “But you’ve got to put up with it. If I ever meet Mr Cullen I’ll have a private word with him. He got publicity over his words and maybe that’s what he was wanting.




“It’s very curious. In my own background on one side I’m an obvious Scot, the Craigs, but on the other side I have Irish background – but it’s from Ulster and 
Connacht, not from Leinster.

“I don’t think my antecedents would necessarily be supporting Leinster anyway. They would have been supporting Ulster last weekend but that wasn’t a very good day for them! As regards this game, as a Glaswegian born and bred I’m all for Glasgow. I’m willing the Warriors to do well on Saturday.”

Craig was speaking at Celtic
Park yesterday as a perfect fusion between venue and occasion as he has an attachment through his son, James, who played for the Warriors between 1996 and 2002, winning four Scotland caps.

Glasgow coach Dave Rennie, left, was also keen to stress that Cullen was wide of 
the mark with his comments.







“He’s a good man Leo, I like him,” said the Kiwi. “We’ve got lots of players who support different football sides, based on where they originate from. We have a heap of football fans who come and watch us play because they enjoy the entertainment and that’s what we’re looking for.

“Obviously, we represent Glasgow and we hope that, regardless of what support you’re involved in, you’ll want to be there for what should be a fantastic occasion.”

Craig, meanwhile, is delighted to see a sport he took to his heart through the career of his now 42-year-old son being held at Celtic Park.

“I still follow them [Glasgow Warriors],” he said. “James played for them for a number of years, so I follow them 
regularly.”







Craig, who won just the one Scotland cap against Wales in that seismic year of 1967, is a keen sporting historian, who once wrote a curiosities column in The Scotsman, which also became a book.






20/05/19'CELTIC PARK - GLASGOW'A general view of Celtic Park, as the rugby goalposts are erected ahead of Saturday's Guinness Pro14 Final between Glasgow Warriors and Leinster


In pictures: Rugby goalposts erected at Celtic Park ahead of Pro14 final



“I did my research, because I was thinking if there was a previous rugby union match here. I don’t think there was,” he said.

“There was a rugby league match here [in 1909] and the stats for that are absolutely fantastic. They [the first touring Kangaroos] were away from home, from Australia, for six weeks out and six weeks back, so that’s three months out of your life for a start. Do you know how many games they played on tour? More than 40. That’s incredible.

“The one here was between the Kangaroos and a team representing Great Britain: 3,000 were here and it ended up 17-17. It was a long time ago so it’s nice to have rugby back here again.

“I spent most of the 1990s following it – I was having to double it up with hockey – [daughter] Lisa took that up so I had to go and watch that as well. That’s a terrible game to watch – there’s far too many people on the park. I kept saying to her if it was seven-a-side it would be a lot easier because there would be more space for the ball!







“No, the rugby was great to watch and I thoroughly enjoyed it. You get some great ideas from rugby – the sin bin is a fantastic idea.”

Craig hopes that Cullen’s comments are quickly put to bed and the often toxic divide which has long afflicted football in Scotland’s biggest city has no place in what should be a great occasion at Parkhead on Saturday.

“Unfortunately when you have a game here it will raise its head,” he said. “That fellow Cullen is the man who started it all by saying things like that. I’m answering these questions because I’ve been asked but I wouldn’t be talking about it if I hadn’t been asked.

“Unfortunately, wherever you go you do get the questions. It might take generations to disappear, but let’s hope one day it does.”

Craig will be taking a keen interest in the Celtic-Hearts showpiece south of the Clyde but is hoping to be in attendance for a rare sight of an oval-shaped ball in ‘paradise’. “I hope to. I’m organising tickets just now, so I hope to be here,” he said. “It’s a really big occasion and it’s going to be a great venue for the game, because the Celtic Park I played in was spread out, where the terraces were shallow.

“Now they’re sheer, which really creates a wonderful atmosphere for any game.”

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue 21 May 2019, 7:22 pm

“I am sure all the Celtic fans will be out supporting Leinster because 
I believe Glasgow are all 
Rangers supporters.”

Interesting misquote. Again.
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Post by Lagon on Tue 21 May 2019, 7:52 pm

Let's just bury this nonsense.

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 22 May 2019, 2:26 am

Lagon wrote:Let's just bury this nonsense.

Big Gee just can't let it go - so I'll continue to help him keep it going. Seems only fair that a moderator gets some support for their efforts at promoting robust debate and invoking the spectre of sectarianism between competing fans. I think he'd like the issue to last at least until Friday.
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Post by RDW on Wed 22 May 2019, 9:06 am

I agree that it's probably time to move on - we've got a good final to look forward to instead. I've locked the thread.

Pot - I get that you're incensed by Biggee's use of the word sectarianism but you're turning this into a bit of a personal tirade. He is not alone in bringing that into the debate - the entire conversation in the media and on social media is doing the same. Posting an article from a former Celtic player whose son played for Glasgow rugby is an entirely appropriate thing to do on a rugby forum when debating something like this.

It's also worth saying that Biggee is one of the most respected poster on here and has become a very measured and fair mod - I'm 100% confident he's not deliberately trying to wind people up or be deliberately controversial.

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