2019 ICC World Cup Tipping Competition

First topic message reminder :

Points Table after Match 48: Final

660 : Alfie
650 : Goose
600 : James
580 : Guildford
550 : Robbo
530 : Dolphin
530 : Duty
505 : Jules
500 : Pal Joey
495 : Tiger
435 : KP_fan
405 : MfC
310 : Olly

* * * * * * * * *
Pick the Winner:

and

Pick the Margin:

N - Narrow
C - Comfortable
E - Easy
T - Thrashing

Narrow	0-15 runs or super over	1-2 wickets or 0-6 balls remaining* or super over
Comfortable	16-49 runs	3-5 wickets or 7-18 balls remaining*
Easy	50-99 runs	6-8 wickets or 19-30 balls remaining*
Thrashing	100+ runs	9+ wickets or 31+ balls remaining*

* The lowest fitting tier of wickets and balls remaining will apply. For example, a win by 9 wickets with 1 ball remaining or a win by 1 wicket with 20 balls remaining are both Narrow.


Scoring:

10 points for picking correct winning team
10 points for picking correct winning margin (N,C,E,or T)
25 points for correct pick tie result (NT)
5 points for one rung off winning margin
0 points for more than one rung off winning margin but you still get 10 points for the win.
0 points for a 'No Result'.

Double points for nominated *Golden Matches* for:

Matches 1-10
Matches 11-20
Matches 21-30
Matches 31-39
Matches 40-45
Matches 46-47 Semi Finals (double points)
Match 48 Final (triple points)


Matches 46-47:

Match 46: India v New Zealand
Match 47: Australia v England

Match 48: New Zealand v England

Good luck everyone... !

Triple points eh ? Still doesn't make much difference as guildford can't catch Goose or me...
James can , of course . Since he needs a big result I'm assuming he will go for one of the less likely options .
As for me I need to beat Goose by one "level" - no difference from double points actually. But I think I might have to just shake hands and say well played Goose because I reckon we will both pick England C ... Or perhaps E...

OK I am happy to do the blind post "message to Joey" thing if that suits everyone ? James on board as well ? Will go along with the majority.

And anyway thanks to Joey for running this ...it has been fun.

No worries, Alfie.

The other alternative would be to introduce a 20 point bonus for calling the correct toss.. and a further 20 points for guessing what the winning captain decides.

A bit too late in this World Cup for that though.
.
Maybe we can do that for each of the 5 Ashes Tests and have extra bonus points for the toss... and what they choose to do.

alfie wrote:OK I am happy to do the blind post "message to Joey" thing if that suits everyone ?  James on board as well ?  Will go along with the majority.

I'm on board with that - though as you say, I'll have to go for one of the less likely results

I'll go:
England E.

Thanks from me as well, Joey.

Thanks Guildford.

Yeah so PM your picks Alf and James. Keep the Top 3 a mystery. I can post them up once match begins.

I've got Goose's. Thanks mate

England - C

let me take a punt on NZ
NZ-C

As are the rules of these things, I have to back against England or they can't win. I shall write down the team I'm meant to and then the margin I believe for the winners.

New Zealand - C

A nice hedge, Flipper.

I'll go slightly more extreme with:  NZ-E.

The team I would like to see win a World Cup and the margin I don't think they'll quite get... if they win it.
Also, Mum's a Kiwi, she went to school in Chch; you know... so I have a minimum 50% interest in seeing them do well tomorrow.

Bonus round no points just prizes for :

Toss winner
Bat first
Highest run scorer
Most runs conceded
Most wickets
MOM

I'm going with NZ, NZ, Sir Joe Root, Neesham, Sir Christopher Woakes, Sir Christopher Woakes

Two right already , Goose

OK, I'll put the final picks up:

NZ-C Dolphin
Eng-C Alfie
NZ-E Pal Joey
Eng-E Goose
Eng-T Duty
Eng-E Robbo
Eng-C Julius
NZ-C James
Eng-E Guildford
NZ-C KP_fan

So wait ...do we all get 0 for the last game? Noone went for broke?

What a rubbish end to the world cup!

Yeah...I'm thinking the same. Technically a tie (which nobody selected) but you'd have to include the super over... so does that make it Eng-N?

I'm happy to go with Eng-N... how about everyone else?

Speaking as someone who wins on a tie (cough) if you take the result of the tied super over as a win N for England it means it's impossible for there to have been a tie, so if anyone picked it they'd be screwed despite having made the best prediction of the competition.

...how about a tie is a win for anyone English but a draw for anyone else?

You can make an argument both ways to be fair.

England did win the World Cup, by the narrowest of margins, so Eng-N would be fair. On the other hand, the actual game and the super over was tied, so 0 for everyone would also be fair!

This is horrible.

I blame the grandstands, the rope, the umpires, the over-catering, the floppy ICC hats... but not in that order of course.  

You still win Goose - anyway you look at it. So congratulations!

I reckon just give everyone who tipped England 30 points.

I'm the moral victor either way. Like kholi in the semi final

Was keeping out of this. Because if we call the result England N ... I would get more points than Goose by virtue of picking. C. Rather than E.
so I'd win

But the original rules set out above say a "win" in a super over is indeed N . Which doesn't actually address the issue of a tie - even if it constitutes a win for England on the basis of some arcane tie break rule...

So although I could argue I was closer than Goose I am not sure I'd want to claim it as it wasn't technically a win in the actual super over.

Have to blame Pal Joey for not foreseeing this set of circumstances and catering for it in the rules

I really think zero points all round is fairest. Which leaves Goose as the winner ! Even if I feel a bit like NZ at being pipped at the post like that

What gets me is that the super over was also a tie... not a conclusive win even after that; then it went to boundaries?

Surely we won't have this problem with the Ashes tipping comp format.

Lightning can't strike twice in the same spot, can it?

In keeping with the spirit of this competition, we should let KP_f decide and then change his prediction to that.

Pal Joey wrote:Yeah...I'm thinking the same. Technically a tie (which nobody selected) but you'd have to include the super over... so does that make it Eng-N?

I'm happy to go with Eng-N... how about everyone else?

The official match result was match tied with England winning the super over. A super over win is N, so I'd say Eng-N.

https://www.google.com/search?q=icc+world+cup+final&rlz=1C1GGRV_enGB778GB779&oq=icc+world+cup+final&aqs=chrome.0.0l2j69i60j0l3.3013j1j4&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Check the first box on google, which is pulled from ICC. "England won the Super Over".

Makes no odds to me, I was out the competition weeks ago. But that's just my 2p.

The official Match Result is a TIE
Eng won the world cup based on boundary count rule....but the match result for eternity will remain TIE.

I had to fight with bet365...but they accepted my arguments and refunded my bets on NZ winning

If I had a bit more time to fight, I could have pressed them into accepting payout of half the odds.

Says the man who claimed to have no money riding on the game!

Gooseberry wrote:Says the man who claimed to have no money riding on the game!

Goose - tbf, he probably only placed the bet yesterday.

Gooseberry wrote:Says the man who claimed to have no money riding on the game!

When I wrote , I had no bets
But could not resist the temptation seeing juicy returns between 3 and 4 times on NZ

Points Table after Match 48: Final

660 : Alfie
650 : Goose
600 : James
580 : Guildford
550 : Robbo
530 : Dolphin
530 : Duty
505 : Jules
500 : Pal Joey
495 : Tiger
435 : KP_fan
405 : MfC
310 : Olly

Alfie and Julius H Marx both got closest with their Eng-C  selection (to Eng-N) and scored 45 points each - meaning Alfie is our Winner!

Well done everyone and thanks for participating.  

It was a very dramatic finish to a very dramatic tournament with the eventual winner not being known until the very last ball... of the very last inning... of a very last super over... of the tournament itself.

Congratulations to Alfie with a well done to Goose for giving him such a hard chase and thanks to Joey for organising.

Thanks Guildford.

I'm very happy for you in particular; in that your team won the trophy and the way you also shot up the competition table in a positive and steady fashion.

If there were only a few more matches I'm sure you'd have been nipping at the leaders and staging another one of your famous comebacks.

Too kind, Joey. I was along the right lines in thinking that England might stutter early on but hopelessly off it when tipping SA to beat them in the opening game and never caught up. Anyway, happy to let Alfie have his day in the sun!

KP_fan wrote:The official Match Result is a TIE
Eng won the world cup  based on boundary count rule....but the match result for eternity will remain TIE.

I had to fight with bet365...but they accepted my arguments and refunded my bets on NZ winning

If I had a bit more time to fight, I could have pressed them into accepting payout of half the odds.

If I were a bookmaker I wouldn't refund any bet on NZ win.

Either the market is "to lift the trophy" - which they didn't - or the market is "match result" - in which case they should offer tie as a result and specify that it is after 50 overs. If they did, there's no case to refund it. If they didn't do that you might have a case, but then that's because Bet365 mismarketed the bet and nothing to do with the actual match result.

The official match result is: Match Tied (England win the Super Over)
https://www.icc-cricket.com/match/8239

The last sentence of your post is just fantasy.

Cant we just share the trophy Alfie?

Thanks to Joey for organising. The wheels came off about the time I posted late and missed a game, but that in itself didn't cost me because even 20 points there would not see me shift a position.

Seems I did really well at the start when the World Cup was going with form, but then perhaps didn't pick a couple of surprise results and went searching for them in the wrong areas. West Indies in particular were one I probably backed too many times.

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:The official Match Result is a TIE
Eng won the world cup  based on boundary count rule....but the match result for eternity will remain TIE.

I had to fight with bet365...but they accepted my arguments and refunded my bets on NZ winning

If I had a bit more time to fight, I could have pressed them into accepting payout of half the odds.

If I were a bookmaker I wouldn't refund any bet on NZ win.

Either the market is "to lift the trophy" - which they didn't - or the market is "match result" - in which case they should offer tie as a result and specify that it is after 50 overs. If they did, there's no case to refund it. If they didn't do that you might have a case, but then that's because Bet365 mismarketed the bet and nothing to do with the actual match result.

The official match result is: Match Tied (England win the Super Over)
https://www.icc-cricket.com/match/8239

The last sentence of your post is just fantasy.

I highly doubt KP_Fan's post is true because BET365's rules are perfectly clear:

"Where no price is quoted for the tie and the official competition rules determine a winner/progressing side, bets will be settled on the official result."

BET365 did not offer a price for the tie and the official competition rules do specify a winner (England), so I highly doubt they would refund because they are covered by their own rule book.

The other idea - that BET365 would pay out at the half the odds - is complete horlicks and for the birds.

robbo277 wrote:

KP_fan wrote:The official Match Result is a TIE
Eng won the world cup  based on boundary count rule....but the match result for eternity will remain TIE.

I had to fight with bet365...but they accepted my arguments and refunded my bets on NZ winning

If I had a bit more time to fight, I could have pressed them into accepting payout of half the odds.

If I were a bookmaker I wouldn't refund any bet on NZ win.

Either the market is "to lift the trophy" - which they didn't - or the market is "match result" - in which case they should offer tie as a result and specify that it is after 50 overs. If they did, there's no case to refund it. If they didn't do that you might have a case, but then that's because Bet365 mismarketed the bet and nothing to do with the actual match result.

The official match result is: Match Tied (England win the Super Over)
https://www.icc-cricket.com/match/8239

The last sentence of your post is just fantasy.

The bet was on Match Result and Match Result official was a TIE, hence they refunded.
They tried to settle the bet on Tournament result posing it to be match result......and got away with it in many cases.
But not in my case because i decided to challenge it and gave them evidence and they accepted,

robbo277 wrote:Thanks to Joey for organising. The wheels came off about the time I posted late and missed a game, but that in itself didn't cost me because even 20 points there would not see me shift a position.

Seems I did really well at the start when the World Cup was going with form, but then perhaps didn't pick a couple of surprise results and went searching for them in the wrong areas. West Indies in particular were one I probably backed too many times.

No worries Robbo.
Yes, I kept foolishly backing SA and then backed against them in their last match (my brother warned me!) and too much trust in the Windies as well.
Anyway, you got the biggest prize in the end. Enjoy the win and the build up to the Ashes! It must be buzzing over there, yes?

Duty281 wrote:  

I highly doubt KP_Fan's post is true because BET365's rules are perfectly clear:

"Where no price is quoted for the tie and the official competition rules determine a winner/progressing side, bets will be settled on the official result."

BET365 did not offer a price for the tie and the official competition rules do specify a winner (England), so I highly doubt they would refund because they are covered by their own rule book.

The other idea - that BET365 would pay out at the half the odds - is complete horlicks and for the birds.

in their chats they also quoted this internal rule.
However my contention was that the official result( for the match) = TIE
Official result for the world cup is Eng won but my bet was not on "who wins the world-cup"....but who wins the match.

And I offered to present the case to the UK betting adjudicator.....then they offered to call me for a settlement & someone did and on the call  offered to void the bet.
I asked for the half the odds, but he wanted to go back check with supervisor call-back again...I let it go as I didn't have more time to burn for another £20 only. I was happy to get my 16£ back.

if you put money on NZ and it helps I can send you some portions of the chat transcript in PM

So you bet on who would win the match and you were wrong? I'm very surprised they refunded, they are wrong to do it as their regulations would definitely back them. Must be a small bet that they don't care enough about to lose, but want to keep a customer.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:So you bet on who would win the match and you were wrong? I'm very surprised they refunded, they are wrong to do it as their regulations would definitely back them. Must be a small bet that they don't care enough about to lose, but want to keep a customer.

They bowed to the evidence presented that the Match is indeed & remains officially a TIE
technicality used ( boundary count) was only to decide the world cup winner.....but that has nothing to do with official match result

Joey can I get a refund?

KP_fan wrote:

Duty281 wrote:  

I highly doubt KP_Fan's post is true because BET365's rules are perfectly clear:

"Where no price is quoted for the tie and the official competition rules determine a winner/progressing side, bets will be settled on the official result."

BET365 did not offer a price for the tie and the official competition rules do specify a winner (England), so I highly doubt they would refund because they are covered by their own rule book.

The other idea - that BET365 would pay out at the half the odds - is complete horlicks and for the birds.

in their chats they also quoted this internal rule.
However my contention was that the official result( for the match) = TIE
Official result for the world cup is Eng won but my bet was not on "who wins the world-cup"....but who wins the match.

And I offered to present the case to the UK betting adjudicator.....then they offered to call me for a settlement & someone did and on the call  offered to void the bet.
I asked for the half the odds, but he wanted to go back check with supervisor call-back again...I let it go as I didn't have more time to burn for another £20 only. I was happy to get my 16£ back.

if you put money on NZ and it helps I can send you some portions of the chat transcript in PM

That's very sweet of you, but I certainly didn't back the Kiwis.

For future reference its much easier to have a word with one of the umpires and get them to move the boundary rope or just get the overthrow rules wrong rather than deal with call centres.

Pal Joey wrote:

robbo277 wrote:Thanks to Joey for organising. The wheels came off about the time I posted late and missed a game, but that in itself didn't cost me because even 20 points there would not see me shift a position.

Seems I did really well at the start when the World Cup was going with form, but then perhaps didn't pick a couple of surprise results and went searching for them in the wrong areas. West Indies in particular were one I probably backed too many times.

No worries Robbo.
Yes, I kept foolishly backing SA and then backed against them in their last match (my brother warned me!) and too much trust in the Windies as well.
Anyway, you got the biggest prize in the end. Enjoy the win and the build up to the Ashes! It must be buzzing over there, yes?

Yeah, I'd rather England won the World Cup and I suffered mid-table mediocrity in the tipping competition than vica versa!

I think everyone I know who has any interest in cricket is still looking backwards rather than forwards. I think the result is really still sinking in. Both what was achieved (first men's cricket world cup, first world cup in a sport I've followed at least since 2003) and the way it was achieved. No-one I know is ready to move on just yet!

Gooseberry wrote:Joey can I get a refund?

Sure, just send me your virtual receipt and I'll reimburse you.

So : the rules committee has that as England N and I get the win ? OK I will take the vast prizemoney ...but extend a sympathetic gesture to Goose who must feel a bit like NZ ...

Thanks for a fun competition , Pal Joey

And I am relieved to hear that KP_fan didn't bankrupt himself backing losers

He didnt put any money on me Alfie

alfie wrote:So : the rules committee has that as England N and I get the win ?  OK I will take the vast prizemoney ...but extend a sympathetic gesture to Goose who must feel a bit like NZ ...

Thanks for a fun competition , Pal Joey  

Thank you, Alfie and well done, mate!

Apologies for the building up of suspense... I hope it was worth the wait.

Gooseberry wrote:Speaking as someone who wins on a tie (cough) if you take the result of the tied super over as a win N for England it means it's impossible for there to have been a tie, so if anyone picked it they'd be screwed despite having made the best prediction of the competition.

Yes, they would have scored 75 (triple 25 points) for picking "NT" as opposed to 60 points for a correct margin win from either team.

Eng-N would not have accrued any points if it was a tie. Lucky that didn't happen as you infer because it's at odds with the reality of what did happen.