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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:22 am

I didn't see a thread for the England team and the first game kicks-off tonight.

Here is the overall squad:

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/2019/05/07/england-men-name-u20-squad-for-world-rugby-u20-championship/

England squad for World Rugby U20 Championship

Olly Adkins (Gloucester Rugby)
Alfie Barbeary (Wasps)
Josh Basham (Newcastle Falcons)
Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)
Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
Tom de Glanville (Bath Rugby)
Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints)
Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks)
Nic Dolly (Sale Sharks)
Ollie Fox (Yorkshire Carnegie)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons)
Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
Samson Ma’asi (Northampton Saints)
Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)
Kai Owen (Worcester Warriors)
Alfie Petch (Exeter Chiefs)
Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks)
Arron Reed (Sale Sharks)
Tom Seabrook (Gloucester Rugby)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins)
Marcus Street (Exeter Chiefs)
Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)
Manu Vunipola (Saracens)
Tom Willis (Wasps)

England U20 fixtures

4 June: England U20s v Ireland U20s (KO 7.30pm BST), live on World Rugby platforms.
8 June: England U20s v Italy U20s (KO 7.30pm BST), live on World Rugby platforms.
12 June: England U20s v Australia U20s (KO 7.30pm BST), live on World Rugby platforms.
Knockout stages on Monday, 17 June and finals day on Saturday, 22 June, live on ITV.


Last edited by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:48 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:25 am

Team to face Ireland
England U20s v Ireland

15. Tom de Glanville (Bath Rugby)
14. Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)
13. Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints) – captain
12. Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks)
11. Tom Seabrook (Gloucester Rugby)
10. Manu Vunipola (Saracens)
9. Ollie Fox (Bath Rugby)
1. Olly Adkins (Gloucester Rugby)
2. Nic Dolly (Sale Sharks)
3. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
4. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
5. Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
6. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Tom Willis (Wasps)

Replacements
16. Alfie Barbeary (Wasps) – Bloxham School
17. Kai Owen (Worcester Warriors)
18. Alfie Petch (Exeter Chiefs)
19. Will Capon (Bristol Bears)
20. James Kenny (Exeter Chiefs)
21. Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)
22. Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)
23. Josh Basham (Newcastle Falcons)
24. Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)
25. Luke James (Sale Sharks)
26. Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks)
27. Arron Reed (Sale Sharks)
28. Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons)


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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:28 am

Marcus Smith no longer in the squad. Looks like he was replaced by Luke James.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:29 am

Not the only change as Marcus Street looks to have dropped out also.

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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:32 am

The game against Ireland in the 6 nations was a good one and I expect the England players will be looking for revenge.

The front five are really strong, but look out for Barbeary coming from the bench, a really big buzz is growing around him (reminds me a little of the hype around a young Maro Itoje).

The back-row looks strong. Aside from the two better known players, I think Hinkley is a good abrasive carrier (not sure how good he is over the ball though).

Tom de Glanville provides a second play maker roll, as opposed to  Josh Hodge who is more of an electric/ attacking player.  In fact with Vunipola and Redpath in the side, you have three players who can step up and dictate play.
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Post by BamBam on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:45 am

Barbeary is getting serious hype, but not so long ago Capon was doing the same in his position! Really like the look of the midfield, plenty of playmaking options and Dingwall has been impressive when he's played this season


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Post by lostinwales on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:50 am

3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:03 pm

lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:10 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.
Cousin.

Also worth pointing out that Rus Tuima is the nephew of Akupusi Qera, cousin of Joe Cokanasiga and brother of England Roses centre Lagi Tuima

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Post by lostinwales on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:10 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

Cousin of Billy and Mako. Born in NZ but from what I can see brought up in the UK (RFU site says he 1st played as a 5yr old at Hull RFC). Somehow ended up at Harrow, something which I am sure had nothing to do with his rugby skills....

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Post by marty2086 on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:22 pm

lostinwales wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

Cousin of Billy and Mako. Born in NZ but from what I can see brought up in the UK (RFU site says he 1st played as a 5yr old at Hull RFC). Somehow ended up at Harrow, something which I am sure had nothing to do with his rugby skills....

Didn't his cousins go there?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:27 pm

Billy did, for 6th form, Mako had a scholarship at Millfield I think.

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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:32 pm

Watching the match, I reckon the scrum half have cost England 14 points. His box kicking has been glacial. He should also have known the rules about moving the ball back over the line.

It has been a decent game but England are going wide too early and getting shepherded into touch too easily. Thought the yellow was a bit harsh. The Irish player was incredibly low and he caught him on the shoulder first before riding up.
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Post by yappysnap on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:50 pm

21-14 now so slowly pulling ahead. Seema like a second yellow card now though so discipline needs to improve.

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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:54 pm

Again I thought it was harsh, the Irish lad dipped as he went into contact, difficult to avoid for Vunipola.
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Post by Cumbrian on Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:08 pm

What an idiot, I mean seriously. He was barely on the field so he can’t even blame a rush of the blood to the head.
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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:31 pm

That red is unbelievable. What a brain dead moron.

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:38 pm

RiscaGame wrote:That red is unbelievable. What a brain dead moron.

Ridiculous - he hardly touched him.

On the way down...
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Post by Cyril on Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:31 pm

Are there any highlights? Sounds eventful and very controversial. These tournaments often have some crazy decisions!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 7:39 am

Good win for Ireland. Got the rub of the green with ref but second win in 2019 v England is a great result for a side at the start of the year that werent fancied to achieve much. I think Irelands tournament seeding was 11th.

Some nice moves from England and some good players. I sense they will bounce back and hammer someone.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:15 am

I think the kid just wanted to make a statement about how strong he was.... maybe not a rush of blood but a rush of foolish enthusiasm - and certainly not as well informed about the rules of the game as the Irish obviously were with that cheeky, pin-point-timing try.

I don't think it was malicious intent with the red card but a bizarre casual understanding of the red card rules on just dumping players onto the head/shoulder area... and maybe too a lack of real appreciation of the dangers.

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Post by Cumbrian on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:07 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Good win for Ireland. Got the rub of the green with ref but second win in 2019 v England is a great result for a side at the start of the year that werent fancied to achieve much. I think Irelands tournament seeding was 11th.

Some nice moves from England and some good players. I sense they will bounce back and hammer someone.

I was impressed by the Irish replacement out half, he was very composed. The replacement no.8 got stuck in too.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:31 am

So was I actually. He nailed all his kicks and made some good calls on the fly.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:51 am

Also Id be interested to know if the ref definitely got the interpretation correct for the Ireland try when the ball was rolled back over the try line by the England scrum half. The ball was not out of the ruck so was the Ireland 12 entitled to dive on it? Actually scratch that it definitely was correct:

18. The ruck ends and play continues when the ball leaves the ruck or when the ball in the ruck is on or over the goal line.

Nice score from Ireland. I think the difference between the sides was Ireland were a bit better organised and coached. England have some frightening players.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:03 am

lostinwales wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

Cousin of Billy and Mako. Born in NZ but from what I can see brought up in the UK (RFU site says he 1st played as a 5yr old at Hull RFC). Somehow ended up at Harrow, something which I am sure had nothing to do with his rugby skills....

Must be a bright young man, there aren't many kids that make the journey from Hull to Harrow.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:32 am

I saw some comments suggesting "controversy" in the match, so I was prepared to look closely at the red, only to realise that the actual play was almost a slapstick exaggeration of a guaranteed red card.

Can't have any complaints there. Genuinely pleased the guy dumped on his head is all right.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:44 am

The controversy was probably regarding the yellows which by the letter of the law probably were yellows but each time the Irish guy dropped down a bit which makes it hard not to be somewhat sympathetic for the offenders.

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Post by Cumbrian on Wed Jun 05, 2019 11:56 am

Irish Londoner wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

Cousin of Billy and Mako. Born in NZ but from what I can see brought up in the UK (RFU site says he 1st played as a 5yr old at Hull RFC). Somehow ended up at Harrow, something which I am sure had nothing to do with his rugby skills....

Must be a bright young man, there aren't many kids that make the journey from Hull to Harrow.

Is the return journey known as the road to hell? Laugh
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Post by LondonTiger on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:01 pm

England men U20s head coach Steve Bates has made 10 changes to his starting XV to face Italy in their second game of the World Rugby U20 Championship on 8 June (KO 7.30pm BST, live on World Rugby platforms).

Props Kai Owen and Alfie Petch join U20 debutant Will Capon in a new front row.

Richard Capstick is named at lock, while Josh Basham and Rusiate Tuima come into the backrow.

Sam Maunder starts at scrum half, Connor Doherty is named at outside centre while wing Arron Reed and full back Josh Hodge also come into the side.

Fraser Dingwall will again captain the side, switching to inside centre with lock Alex Coles, flanker Aaron Hinkley and wing Tom Seabrook starting their second match of the tournament, as does Tom de Glanville who moves to fly half.

Prop James Kenny is in line to make his England U20 debut as a replacement, while Manu Vunipola (concussion) and Alfie Barbeary (suspended) are ruled out of the fixture.

The side were beaten in their opening fixture of the Championship defeated by Ireland and will play their final pool fixture against Australia on Wednesday.

“There are a lot of changes but we’ve picked a team that we know can be really competitive, I want to see the players put in a performance that they are proud of and for everyone to contribute," said Bates.

“We agonised over the first selection and picking this XV has been equally as tough, but this is a strong team and we expect them to play with belief and confidence and play the sort of rugby we saw at times against Ireland but with a bit more consistency and discipline.”

England U20s team to play Ireland

15. Josh Hodge (Newcastle Falcons)
14. Tom Seabrook (Gloucester Rugby)
13. Connor Doherty (Sale Sharks)
12. Fraser Dingwall (Northampton Saints) - captain
11. Arron Reed (Sale Sharks)
10. Tom De Glanville (Bath Rugby)
9. Sam Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)
1. Kai Owen (Worcester Warriors)
2. Will Capon (Bristol Bears)
3, Alfie Petch (Exeter Chiefs)
4. Richard Capstick (Exeter Chiefs)
5. Alex Coles (Northampton Saints)
6. Josh Basham (Newcastle Falcons)
7. Aaron Hinkley (Gloucester Rugby)
8. Rusiate Tuima (Exeter Chiefs)

Replacements

16. Nic Dolly (Sale Sharks)
17. James Kenny (Exeter Chiefs)
18. Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers)
19. Olly Adkins (Gloucester Rugby)
20. Joel Kpoku (Saracens)
21. Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
22. Tom Willis (Wasps Rugby)
23. Ollie Fox (Yorkshire Carnegie)
24. Luke James (Sale Sharks)
25. Cameron Redpath (Sale Sharks)
26. Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints)

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Post by Irish Londoner on Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:52 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
Irish Londoner wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
lostinwales wrote:3 kids of former internationals that I can see.

Plus another Vunipola. Relation?

If he is a chip off the old block, I wouldn't want to be the opposing 10, especially if he favours his name sake Manu.

Cousin of Billy and Mako. Born in NZ but from what I can see brought up in the UK (RFU site says he 1st played as a 5yr old at Hull RFC). Somehow ended up at Harrow, something which I am sure had nothing to do with his rugby skills....

Must be a bright young man, there aren't many kids that make the journey from Hull to Harrow.

Is the return journey known as the road to hell? Laugh

The Yorkshire prayer, "From Hell, Hull and Halifax, may the good lord deliver us".

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:22 pm

Alfie Bearberry has been banned for 5 weeks (well matches really). We had 3 hookers so still cover within the squad, but what would have happened here (or in RWC later) if we only had two hookers in the squad and one was banned?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:41 pm

Tough break for him as it totally rules him out of the RWC completely however, it is probably deserved.

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Post by Yoda on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:08 pm

What has happened to the u20? They are shocking, what is Steve bates coaching? Bloody awful attacking structure so far and our fullback looks out of his depth.

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Post by Yoda on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:32 pm

Wow we really are a shambles this year. Utter garbage, they look like a pub side on a tour match.

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Post by Yoda on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:36 pm

Mind you England's performance is matched by the ref who hasn't a clue. Hope this crop get booted out as they add nothing to this comp.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:48 pm

Italy 23-14 Eng after 60 minutes.   That’s s surprise.  

Not looking good for Ireland’s prospects after being pasted today by Australia in the last 10 minutes or so.
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Post by SecretFly on Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:00 pm

Well, if we beat Italy by a big score and England beat Australia and keep Australia's score down low...how would that look?

Maybe my calculating mind is way off target and I know it's a long long shot but already the WR site is saying Australia are first team through to the semis.... isn't that premature with Enland on one win, Ireland on one win and Australia on two wins but with one more game to come from each?

Or am I calculating this damn competition all wrong?

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Post by yappysnap on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:08 am

So england manage the win but it doesnt sound convincing...

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:39 am

SecretFly wrote:Well, if we beat Italy by a big score and England beat Australia and keep Australia's score down low...how would that look?

Maybe my calculating mind is way off target and I know it's a long long shot but already the WR site is saying Australia are first team through to the semis.... isn't that premature with Enland on one win, Ireland on one win and Australia on two wins but with one more game to come from each?

Or am I calculating this damn competition all wrong?
Australia's bonus points and points difference should see them through as top qualifiers. The best Engand can manage is maximum points against Australia but that will still only take us to a 9 point pool total, which mean we can't top the group. As both SA and NZ already have 10 points each, England can't be best loser either, so that's us out of Cup contention.

Ireland can get 10 points with a maximum win over Italy but they need England to beat Australia spectacularly well, and then do the same themselves to Italy to have a chance at qualifying top. Australia have a points difference of +52, while Ireland are on -12. Unless Australia get a red card, then the chances of England making a dent on that +52 are slim. That would mean the Irish will have to close most of that 64 point difference themselves.

On current form, you'd think Australia can beat England, although I hope England go in with something to prove, after such a poor tournament by  our recent standards.

If Ireland finish second on 10 points, there's a good chance Cup qualification will be gone for them too, as SA and NZ both already have ten each, with points difference over 50 apiece. One of them will lose to the other in the next round but they will almost certainly be a better placed qualifier than Ireland.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:52 am

England squeak it 24-23

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Post by propdavid_london on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:19 pm

Good win for England in the end - although as said above, they were already out.
Disappointing that Australia still got the bonus point even when down a man.
I haven't seen much of the competition this year - but it seems that England are struggling compared to recent years.

Is there a change in the setup?
Have more clubs been unwilling to release their players?
Do we have more 18/19yr olds playing in this year than previous? Or is it just that they are coming up against better teams?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:31 pm

I'd say coming up against better teams would be certainly up there as a reason, even if other reasons are also in there in the mix.

The grinding inevitable death of the SH powerhouses has always been more a wishful-thinking exercise for some NH observers than it has ever been a reality.  

The bits I've seen of Australia - they looked sharp, alert, full of invention, pace and mischief.  Who knows, might even go on and win it.

U20s is by definition a much transitory animal in terms of consistency and quality.  But SH tri-Nations sides with three of the semi-finalists... well maybe a signal that normal service might be about to be resumed in the senior game over the next few seasons.

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Post by Poorfour on Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:00 pm

I wouldn't be so sure about that, Fly.

This year's NH U20s haven't done brilliantly, but from what I can see the England bunch at least are inexperienced even for a U20 group, and even off the top of my head I know they're missing two potential game changers in Marcus Smith (played against the BaaBaas) and Cadan Murley (injured).

It's also likely to be at least 2-3 years before these kids start to make an impact on the adult game, and even then Australia and SA have their structural issues to overcome. NZ have a great structure - but they also have a very big renewal exercise to do. Which said, with players like Aumua in the pipeline, I expect they will manage it well...
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