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Post by McLaren on Fri 31 May 2019, 2:39 pm

Kwini

It amazes me that a professional footballer can end up one footed. Just practice with your weak foot every day.

I remember spending a summer playing with only my left foot in the garden. Came back next season two footed.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 31 May 2019, 3:22 pm

McLaren wrote:Kwini

It amazes me that a professional footballer can end up one footed. Just practice with your weak foot every day.

I remember spending a summer playing with only my left foot in the garden. Came back next season two footed.


Agreed, Ryan Giggs another notable culprit. Evra also. But why do coaches tolerate it?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 31 May 2019, 5:32 pm

McLaren wrote:
wiretapper wrote:Pretty sure I've discussed cricket on here before Whistle

And that catch kinda transcends it anyway what with the coverage it has received

Didn't seem that impressive. You see the Frisbee wnkrs make those sort of catches all the time.
picard Ever played the game? Didn't think so.
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Post by McLaren on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 8:01 pm

Lets hope Liverpool and Spurs can put on a better show than Arsenal and Chelsea did, really looking forward to this match.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 8:52 pm

McLaren wrote:Lets hope Liverpool and Spurs can put on a better show than Arsenal and Chelsea did, really looking forward to this match.

Not so far.

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Post by McLaren on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 9:02 pm

Not even close. 22 Ozils out there.
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Post by McLaren on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 9:53 pm

Origi wouldn't look out of place in Sunday league football and yet he has decided the champions league this season.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 9:57 pm

Matched only by the consistently abysmal US coverage of European Football this season.
First half began with one commentary team, second half with another, including the stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, mumbling David Pleat. Still can't differentiate between Dorigo and Origi.

Got to give Liverpool credit - not their fault that Tottenham didn't show up. Bit like Arsenal in that respect.

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Post by McLaren on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 10:27 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
wiretapper wrote:Pretty sure I've discussed cricket on here before :whistle:

And that catch kinda transcends it anyway what with the coverage it has received

Didn't seem that impressive. You see the Frisbee wnkrs make those sort of catches all the time.
:picard: Ever played the game? Didn't think so.

Not even catch of the week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/baseball/48454435
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Post by pedro on Sat 01 Jun 2019, 11:38 pm

Disappointing final after yet another incredible season.

Liverpool now 4 CL finals and 2 wins in 14 seasons. Not bad for a team living in the past.

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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 12:43 am

pedro wrote:Disappointing final after yet another incredible season.

Liverpool now 4 CL finals and 2 wins in 14 seasons. Not bad for a team living in the past.

Aren't they a "selling" team?

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Post by westisbest on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 8:27 am

Didn’t watch it, but pleased Liverpool won. Nothing against Spurs.
To get so close in the league. Least they came away with something this season.

Again didn’t watch it. But was shocked to turn on sky sports and see Joshua lost. Was certain he would get the ko early on.

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Post by beninho on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 9:38 am

Glad Liverpool won, but it seems 2half weeks between games didnt help either team. But credit to Spurs, making the final is a great achievement in itself, and even though they lost, they didn't have to go to Baku.

Surprised about AJ.

Anyone who thinks the Ben Stokes catch is anything but really impressive is probably a tw@t. Let's hope the world cup.is a good one.

Rip Jose Antonio Reyes, 35 is a tragic loss. Liked him asca player.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 7:22 pm

McLaren wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
McLaren wrote:
wiretapper wrote:Pretty sure I've discussed cricket on here before Whistle

And that catch kinda transcends it anyway what with the coverage it has received

Didn't seem that impressive. You see the Frisbee wnkrs make those sort of catches all the time.
picard Ever played the game? Didn't think so.

Not even catch of the week.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/baseball/48454435
Sure. Really impressive. Whataboutery, but impressive. Yet again, the point whistles over your head...
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Post by McLaren on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 8:07 pm

Navy

Chill, my cat makes better catches than that cricket fellow with its ball every day, but I have never seen it rip a 3 iron or play a clever one two around and oncoming defender.
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Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 02 Jun 2019, 11:24 pm

McLaren wrote:Navy

Chill, my cat makes better catches than that cricket fellow with its ball every day, but I have never seen it rip a 3 iron or play a clever one two around and oncoming defender.

picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard picard

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Post by super_realist on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 8:00 am

McLaren wrote:Kwini

It amazes me that a professional footballer can end up one footed. Just practice with your weak foot every day.

I remember spending a summer playing with only my left foot in the garden. Came back next season two footed.

Probably one of the most salient points you've ever made Mac. Football seems to be the one sport where people work with what they've got rather than try to improve on where they aren't so good. I don't know if training techniques simply don't match other sports in carving out percentage gains or are perhaps too rigid to try something different, it seems players are content to take the Lowry route of working with your existent talent, rather than addressing your weaknesses. How many times do you hear about a player being slow, or having a terrible first touch or a rotten shot. They've got all day to work on it, there's no excuses at this level for someone not to be better with their weaker foot etc. Everyone can become a better, quicker runner too. I wouldn't expect a player to ever be 100% ambidextrous, but certainly a great many could be better with their "standing" foot than they are.


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Post by super_realist on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 8:03 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Matched only by the consistently abysmal US coverage of European Football this season.
First half began with one commentary team, second half with another, including the stumbling, bumbling, fumbling, mumbling David Pleat. Still can't differentiate between Dorigo and Origi.

Got to give Liverpool credit - not their fault that Tottenham didn't show up. Bit like Arsenal in that respect.

Without doubt one of the worst pundits I've ever heard, fortunately I've never had to endure him with the worst commentator of all time, Clive Tyldsely. What an awful combination that would be.

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Post by wiretapper on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 10:51 am

Enjoyable weekend for sport although I did fall asleep during the second half on Saturday (in my defence, Friday had been a very late one).

Champions League finals however are rarely classic matches. I don't think the occasion lends itself to them being great, too much at stake and all that.

I have a couple of friends that are Liverpool fans so I'm glad for them but other than that didn't have a preference.

I decided against getting the Joshua fight as I didn't think it would go beyond a couple of rounds and therefore didn't think it would be worth the PPV cost or staying up very late again. But turns out I was way wrong with that.

Sky's blanket ban of PPV footage means I still haven't seen it - I listened to Costello's radio commentary yesterday afternoon - but from what I've read on social media some are saying that Joshua didn't look like he was trying or all that bothered. Who knows?

Anyway, England back in action today in the CWC OK

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Post by dynamark on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 11:06 am

Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 12:46 pm

dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes...
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Post by Roller_Coaster on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 2:28 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?
I'd rather stick needles in my eyes...

Trump.

1 - I really want to play Turnberry again; and,
2 - Corbyn would probably nationalise my putting stroke

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Post by dynamark on Mon 03 Jun 2019, 8:36 pm

That's good roller .JC would probably refuse to play on the grounds that - insert words here.
Vince cable also refused a free dinner.
My son did some work at Turnberry recently fitting gym kit and stayed in one of the lodges said it was great but a bit las vegas gold plated.
Got my new handicap today after a couple of years off = 30= I'm going to have to wear a disguise to play of that number that's near to cheating.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 8:00 am

dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 8:01 am

dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

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Post by beninho on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 10:33 am

Realist, have you moved to London?

From living in London, I am seeing no issues with the Mayor. We could have had Goldsmith! And the last guy spunked a lot on a bridge.

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Post by McLaren on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 11:49 am

Super

What do you think Kahn has done wrong as mayor?
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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 12:03 pm

Doesn't matter whether Khan is good, bad or indifferent, I don't feel as if it would be appropriate for the new Prime Minister to send a tweet on their visit to Washington saying, for instance, Mike Pence is a useless d1ckhead, religious bigot, racist, anti-women, etc.

Let's hope not anyway.

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Post by JAS on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 12:15 pm

super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

Ok several things here. Last point first, how do you know he never protested against the Saudi & Chinese visits, whether he did or whether he didn’t the media decided not to showcase it. Trump on the other hand is an entirely different matter, the media LOVE the divisiveness he creates and happily amplify every minutiae of it.
You say you don’t like Trump, why not? If, like most sane people you find him a dangerously erratic racist misogynist buffoon then you’re not alone. To do nothing is to blindly accept him and his behaviour. As the the song goes “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”
Having said that Corbyn has a fine line to tread between trying to stick to his principles and trying to appear ministerial. If he goes with the latter he’d be ravaged as a power hungry sell out. Sticks with the former and he will be painted as a tinpot rebel, unfit for office. Looks like he’s sticking to his principles for which the Tories and the press (and you) will react to ever so predictably.

I’m not even going to touch the other Poopie, it’s been done to death and it still sounds as pathetic now as when Tory Central offices marketing people first started hawking it around. Actually no, let’s air it...It’s an understandable position if you think Britain never ever did anything wrong in Ireland, had no responsibility whatsoever in oppressing a working class section of Northern Irish society. Again, fine to condemn him for meeting Hamas if you think that in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Israel are 100% correct and justified in slaying Palestinians and grabbing land. If most people stop and think about those conflicts the first obvious point is that in any conflict, there is no such thing as certainty that any side is 100% correct and justified. You therefore either stand back and watch them tear lumps out of each other or you try and see if there’s a potential for dialogue to try and resolve (Corbyn approach) Or you make a judgement, take sides and boost your arms industry by supplying weapons to one or both sides and as a bonus hope that your construction industry will get big gig of rebuilding contracts when it’s all done (neoliberal approach). I guess you’re more the latter than the former?

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Post by superflyweight on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 12:40 pm

super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/07/saudi-crown-prince-uk-visit


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Post by pedro on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 12:44 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

Ok several things here. Last point first, how do you know he never protested against the Saudi & Chinese visits, whether he did or whether he didn’t the media decided not to showcase it. Trump on the other hand is an entirely different matter, the media LOVE the divisiveness he creates and happily amplify every minutiae of it.
You say you don’t like Trump, why not? If, like most sane people you find him a dangerously erratic racist misogynist buffoon then you’re not alone. To do nothing is to blindly accept him and his behaviour. As the the song goes “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”
Having said that Corbyn has a fine line to tread between trying to stick to his principles and trying to appear ministerial. If he goes with the latter he’d be ravaged as a power hungry sell out. Sticks with the former and he will be painted as a tinpot rebel, unfit for office. Looks like he’s sticking to his principles for which the Tories and the press (and you) will react to ever so predictably.

I’m not even going to touch the other Poopie, it’s been done to death and it still sounds as pathetic now as when Tory Central offices marketing people first started hawking it around. Actually no, let’s air it...It’s an understandable position if you think Britain never ever did anything wrong in Ireland, had no responsibility whatsoever in oppressing a working class section of Northern Irish society. Again, fine to condemn him for meeting  Hamas if you think that in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Israel are 100% correct and justified in slaying Palestinians and grabbing land. If most people stop and think about those conflicts the first obvious point is that in any conflict, there is no such thing as certainty that any side is 100% correct and justified. You therefore either stand back and watch them tear lumps out of each other or you try and see if there’s a potential for dialogue to try and resolve (Corbyn approach) Or you make a judgement, take sides and boost your arms industry by supplying weapons to one or both sides and as a bonus hope that your construction industry will get big gig of rebuilding contracts when it’s all done (neoliberal approach). I guess you’re more the latter than the former?
I think this goes for Corbynites as well JAS “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 2:22 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

Ok several things here. Last point first, how do you know he never protested against the Saudi & Chinese visits, whether he did or whether he didn’t the media decided not to showcase it. Trump on the other hand is an entirely different matter, the media LOVE the divisiveness he creates and happily amplify every minutiae of it.
You say you don’t like Trump, why not? If, like most sane people you find him a dangerously erratic racist misogynist buffoon then you’re not alone. To do nothing is to blindly accept him and his behaviour. As the the song goes “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”
Having said that Corbyn has a fine line to tread between trying to stick to his principles and trying to appear ministerial. If he goes with the latter he’d be ravaged as a power hungry sell out. Sticks with the former and he will be painted as a tinpot rebel, unfit for office. Looks like he’s sticking to his principles for which the Tories and the press (and you) will react to ever so predictably.

I’m not even going to touch the other Poopie, it’s been done to death and it still sounds as pathetic now as when Tory Central offices marketing people first started hawking it around. Actually no, let’s air it...It’s an understandable position if you think Britain never ever did anything wrong in Ireland, had no responsibility whatsoever in oppressing a working class section of Northern Irish society. Again, fine to condemn him for meeting  Hamas if you think that in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Israel are 100% correct and justified in slaying Palestinians and grabbing land. If most people stop and think about those conflicts the first obvious point is that in any conflict, there is no such thing as certainty that any side is 100% correct and justified. You therefore either stand back and watch them tear lumps out of each other or you try and see if there’s a potential for dialogue to try and resolve (Corbyn approach) Or you make a judgement, take sides and boost your arms industry by supplying weapons to one or both sides and as a bonus hope that your construction industry will get big gig of rebuilding contracts when it’s all done (neoliberal approach). I guess you’re more the latter than the former?
Kind of agree with first para, but the second one? It's one view, I guess. The trouble for Corbyn is this sort of inconsistency/hypocrisy:

https://twitter.com/mattuthompson/status/1135888535133859840
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Post by wiretapper on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 2:48 pm

So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 4:52 pm

"Invincible" no more.
Reyes driving at 135+mph. Oof.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 5:14 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:"Invincible" no more.
Reyes driving at 135+mph. Oof.
Yeah. Shame he's dead and all that, but seriously? Not only him either.
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Post by super_realist on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 5:59 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

What do you think Kahn has done wrong as mayor?

What has he done right Mac? Crime up 12%. He's overseen a terrible period of knife crime, he's introduced ridiculous discrimination against car owners, whilst ignoring the biggest polluters in London, buildings. He did nothing to get rid of those wretched hysterical climate protestors, said he'd support 80k new houses being built in London per year (how's he done?)

Why would you want to defend him Mac?

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Post by super_realist on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 6:01 pm

JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

Ok several things here. Last point first, how do you know he never protested against the Saudi & Chinese visits, whether he did or whether he didn’t the media decided not to showcase it. Trump on the other hand is an entirely different matter, the media LOVE the divisiveness he creates and happily amplify every minutiae of it.
You say you don’t like Trump, why not? If, like most sane people you find him a dangerously erratic racist misogynist buffoon then you’re not alone. To do nothing is to blindly accept him and his behaviour. As the the song goes “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”
Having said that Corbyn has a fine line to tread between trying to stick to his principles and trying to appear ministerial. If he goes with the latter he’d be ravaged as a power hungry sell out. Sticks with the former and he will be painted as a tinpot rebel, unfit for office. Looks like he’s sticking to his principles for which the Tories and the press (and you) will react to ever so predictably.

I’m not even going to touch the other Poopie, it’s been done to death and it still sounds as pathetic now as when Tory Central offices marketing people first started hawking it around. Actually no, let’s air it...It’s an understandable position if you think Britain never ever did anything wrong in Ireland, had no responsibility whatsoever in oppressing a working class section of Northern Irish society. Again, fine to condemn him for meeting  Hamas if you think that in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Israel are 100% correct and justified in slaying Palestinians and grabbing land. If most people stop and think about those conflicts the first obvious point is that in any conflict, there is no such thing as certainty that any side is 100% correct and justified. You therefore either stand back and watch them tear lumps out of each other or you try and see if there’s a potential for dialogue to try and resolve (Corbyn approach) Or you make a judgement, take sides and boost your arms industry by supplying weapons to one or both sides and as a bonus hope that your construction industry will get big gig of rebuilding contracts when it’s all done (neoliberal approach). I guess you’re more the latter than the former?

First of all I'm talking about ALL the protestors who are currently acting like babies at Trump, but were presumably "too busy" serving coffee to bother when it's the leader of a country with far more wrong with it.

It's not that Corbyn has me Hamas and the IRA, it's that he won't meet actual elected officials as if he's being "principled" Are you telling me he agreed with the IRA and Hamas? Shouldn't you meet ALL the people you disagree with?
Hardly principled when he's supporting and advocating antisemitism both personally and through his party, failing to punish those in his party who continue it, attending terrorists funerals etc. He's a ghastly man, and yes, you could say the same for the majority of politicians, but he does it in such an objectional manner and in such a hypocritical fashion that he must know he has no chance of being the next prime minister, or is simply doing all he can to ensure he will never have to do it.

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Post by super_realist on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 6:08 pm

wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 6:20 pm

super_realist wrote:
JAS wrote:
super_realist wrote:
dynamark wrote:Rematch as per contract clause for AJ win win .
Pleat is a bad commentator we had him as the manager of the football club for goodness sake.
Anyway would you rather have a round of golf with Trump or Corbyn ?

Corbyn is such a plank. Happy to meet Hamas, the IRA and attend funerals for murderers but won't meet the democratically elected President of the USA? I don't like Trump, but he's correct about Khan too, a terrible mayor.

Why weren't all these idiots protesting visits by leaders from Japan, China and Saudi Arabia?

Ok several things here. Last point first, how do you know he never protested against the Saudi & Chinese visits, whether he did or whether he didn’t the media decided not to showcase it. Trump on the other hand is an entirely different matter, the media LOVE the divisiveness he creates and happily amplify every minutiae of it.
You say you don’t like Trump, why not? If, like most sane people you find him a dangerously erratic racist misogynist buffoon then you’re not alone. To do nothing is to blindly accept him and his behaviour. As the the song goes “...and blind acceptance is a sign, of stupid fools who stand in line...”
Having said that Corbyn has a fine line to tread between trying to stick to his principles and trying to appear ministerial. If he goes with the latter he’d be ravaged as a power hungry sell out. Sticks with the former and he will be painted as a tinpot rebel, unfit for office. Looks like he’s sticking to his principles for which the Tories and the press (and you) will react to ever so predictably.

I’m not even going to touch the other Poopie, it’s been done to death and it still sounds as pathetic now as when Tory Central offices marketing people first started hawking it around. Actually no, let’s air it...It’s an understandable position if you think Britain never ever did anything wrong in Ireland, had no responsibility whatsoever in oppressing a working class section of Northern Irish society. Again, fine to condemn him for meeting  Hamas if you think that in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict Israel are 100% correct and justified in slaying Palestinians and grabbing land. If most people stop and think about those conflicts the first obvious point is that in any conflict, there is no such thing as certainty that any side is 100% correct and justified. You therefore either stand back and watch them tear lumps out of each other or you try and see if there’s a potential for dialogue to try and resolve (Corbyn approach) Or you make a judgement, take sides and boost your arms industry by supplying weapons to one or both sides and as a bonus hope that your construction industry will get big gig of rebuilding contracts when it’s all done (neoliberal approach). I guess you’re more the latter than the former?

First of all I'm talking about ALL the protestors who are currently acting like babies at Trump, but were presumably "too busy" serving coffee to bother when it's the leader of a country with far more wrong with it.

It's not that Corbyn has me Hamas and the IRA, it's that he won't meet actual elected officials as if he's being "principled" Are you telling me he agreed with the IRA and Hamas? Shouldn't you meet ALL the people you disagree with?
Hardly principled when he's  supporting and advocating antisemitism both personally and through his party, failing to punish those in his party who continue it, attending terrorists funerals etc. He's a ghastly man, and yes, you could say the same for the majority of politicians, but he does it in such an objectional manner and in such a hypocritical fashion that he must know he has no chance of being the next prime minister, or is simply doing all he can to ensure he will never have to do it.

Corbyn might have met with the IRA but the Tories formed a government with the DUP. Not sure which is worse.

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Post by beninho on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 8:45 pm

super_realist wrote:
wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

My sister, aged 38 has undergone 2 instances of cancer within the last few years. My mum is currently undergoing chemotherapy. My 2 children were born as cesarean section due to complications. I think the nhs is a bloody good service.  

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Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 8:56 pm

Alternatively you could opt for the US system which costs about 75% more with inferior overall outcomes.
Significantly worse in many States, particularly most of the red ones.

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Post by JAS on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 9:49 pm

beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

My sister, aged 38 has undergone 2 instances of cancer within the last few years. My mum is currently undergoing chemotherapy. My 2 children were born as cesarean section due to complications. I think the nhs is a bloody good service.

So Super... under the system that Trump’s going to encourage us to go with, Beninho and his family would be heading headlong toward bankruptcy and THAT is what a lot of people just don’t get. Some people blindly refuse to see the value in the NHS. Whilst it IS worth protecting from leechy vultures like Trump and cronies it’s not exactly the best going, the Scandinavians in general are much more social/welfare responsible than we have become. Quite frankly The benefit of the NHS should be stripped from idiots voting Tory because they are in fact voting for its demise.

Oh and in your other response can you offer up a specific quote, with dates and other relevant details where he specifically advocated anti-semitism? As a guide both for yourself and the Tory press, calling out Israeli atrocities against Palestine is not actually in itself anti Semitic. Probably also worth noting that Margaret Hodge is a disgruntled Blairite on the right fringe of the Labour Party who has lodged over half of all the anti Semitic allegations against the party...go figure. Do labour have an issue with anti Semitism? Yes they have some issues that need sorting but they’re not on the scale that the right wing press would have you believe. They are the weapon of choice from the Blairites trying to destabilise Corbyn. It’s quite pathetic really.

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Post by pedro on Tue 04 Jun 2019, 11:20 pm

Very biased there Jas. You’ve never had any problems jumping on the anti-Trump misogynist/racist/Russia bandwagon as far as I recall.

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Post by super_realist on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 7:56 am

JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

My sister, aged 38 has undergone 2 instances of cancer within the last few years. My mum is currently undergoing chemotherapy. My 2 children were born as cesarean section due to complications. I think the nhs is a bloody good service.  

Now why don't you fuk.off, you attention seeking cretin.

So Super... under the system that Trump’s going to encourage us to go with, Beninho and his family would be heading headlong toward bankruptcy and THAT is what a lot of people just don’t get. Some people blindly refuse to see the value in the NHS. Whilst it IS worth protecting from leechy vultures like Trump and cronies it’s not exactly the best going, the Scandinavians in general are much more social/welfare responsible than we have become. Quite frankly The benefit of the NHS should be stripped from idiots voting Tory because they are in fact voting for its demise.

Oh and in your other response can you offer up a specific quote, with dates and other relevant details where he specifically advocated anti-semitism? As a guide both for yourself and the Tory press, calling out Israeli atrocities against Palestine is not actually in itself anti Semitic. Probably also worth noting that Margaret Hodge is a disgruntled Blairite on the right fringe of the Labour Party who has lodged over half of all the anti Semitic allegations against the party...go figure. Do labour have an issue with anti Semitism? Yes they have some issues that need sorting but they’re not on the scale that the right wing press would have you believe. They are the weapon of choice from the Blairites trying to destabilise Corbyn. It’s quite pathetic really.

JAS, I don't give a toss about what Trump says or stands for, it's the hypocrisy of the demonstrators I have the issue with. For example supporters of the Labour party are telling us they're standing against racism, whilst being part of a racist party.  How can they square that?

Where did Corbyn advocate anti Semitism? How long did it take it to condemn it in his party. Has he expelled anyone for anti Semitism? No. He only suspends people like Degsy. He was a member of anti semitic groups on Facebook and commented positively on anti semitic imagery. If Talkradio can fire George Galloway over ONE anti semitic tweet, why won't Corbyn do that in the Labour Party?


Corbyn is also an idiot for saying he's proud to have a Muslim as a Mayor. Why would anyone be proud to have anyone of any stripe of religion in charge of anything and treat it like a badge of honour? Why would you be proud of someone who harbours bad and frankly absurd and indefensible beliefs. Why would you want to support and defend this Marxist buffoon? Are you proud to have representatives in the HOL from the clergy? I'm not, it's an embarrassment, and it's an embarrassment to point out Khan's religion as if it were a positive.

I agree that the NHS shouldn't end up in the hands of someone like Trump, however I do think we ought to stop treating it like some sort of "crown jewel" when it's very clearly in a right state through mismanagement by both political parties over several decades.

There's no need to get abusive Beninho. Members of my family have benefitted greatly from it too, I just wish people would actually state categorically that it is deeply flawed and stop treating it like it's a perfect system when it isn't or that it's the "envy of the world" Trump clearly didn't even know what it was.
 By the way Beninho, I'd be careful what you call people. I got a warning because I called Mac a plank. What you have done is much worse. Fortunately I'm not the type to be insulted or offended, but some snowflake might complain on my behalf.

If the NHS was so bloody brilliant why do we lag behind many European countries in survival rates of many types of cancer for example? Why do we have to wait so long to be seen? Why are our medicines so expensive, why is there a post code lottery as to who receives what? It's not a perfect system, why do I get free prescriptions whilst England do not, especially when I'm happy to pay and whilst I'm glad it exists it's about time people started calling out where it fails. It needs serious reform and yes, perhaps some parts of it COULD/MIGHT end up benefitting from some sort of privatisation. We pay for dentistry and optometry for example. Why not pay small amounts for access to other parts? For example how about drunks clogging up A&E on a Saturday night pay a fee? THe NHS is being strangled by overweight people with Type 2 diabetes, a condition which is largely self inflicted. Shouldn't we be taxing what they are eating massively like we tax cigarettes? At least smokers put more into the economy than they take out through NHS treatment, what do Type 2 Diabetes contribute to the NHS compared to what they take out? Then there's the complications of this condition on heart disease, dementia (related to inactivity) etc

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Post by superflyweight on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 8:41 am

super_realist wrote:
JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

My sister, aged 38 has undergone 2 instances of cancer within the last few years. My mum is currently undergoing chemotherapy. My 2 children were born as cesarean section due to complications. I think the nhs is a bloody good service.  

Now why don't you fuk.off, you attention seeking cretin.

So Super... under the system that Trump’s going to encourage us to go with, Beninho and his family would be heading headlong toward bankruptcy and THAT is what a lot of people just don’t get. Some people blindly refuse to see the value in the NHS. Whilst it IS worth protecting from leechy vultures like Trump and cronies it’s not exactly the best going, the Scandinavians in general are much more social/welfare responsible than we have become. Quite frankly The benefit of the NHS should be stripped from idiots voting Tory because they are in fact voting for its demise.

Oh and in your other response can you offer up a specific quote, with dates and other relevant details where he specifically advocated anti-semitism? As a guide both for yourself and the Tory press, calling out Israeli atrocities against Palestine is not actually in itself anti Semitic. Probably also worth noting that Margaret Hodge is a disgruntled Blairite on the right fringe of the Labour Party who has lodged over half of all the anti Semitic allegations against the party...go figure. Do labour have an issue with anti Semitism? Yes they have some issues that need sorting but they’re not on the scale that the right wing press would have you believe. They are the weapon of choice from the Blairites trying to destabilise Corbyn. It’s quite pathetic really.

JAS, I don't give a toss about what Trump says or stands for, it's the hypocrisy of the demonstrators I have the issue with. For example supporters of the Labour party are telling us they're standing against racism, whilst being part of a racist party.  How can they square that?

Where did Corbyn advocate anti Semitism? How long did it take it to condemn it in his party. Has he expelled anyone for anti Semitism? No. He only suspends people like Degsy. He was a member of anti semitic groups on Facebook and commented positively on anti semitic imagery. If Talkradio can fire George Galloway over ONE anti semitic tweet, why won't Corbyn do that in the Labour Party?


Corbyn is also an idiot for saying he's proud to have a Muslim as a Mayor. Why would anyone be proud to have anyone of any stripe of religion in charge of anything and treat it like a badge of honour? Why would you be proud of someone who harbours bad and frankly absurd and indefensible beliefs. Why would you want to support and defend this Marxist buffoon? Are you proud to have representatives in the HOL from the clergy? I'm not, it's an embarrassment, and it's an embarrassment to point out Khan's religion as if it were a positive.

I agree that the NHS shouldn't end up in the hands of someone like Trump, however I do think we ought to stop treating it like some sort of "crown jewel" when it's very clearly in a right state through mismanagement by both political parties over several decades.

There's no need to get abusive Beninho. Members of my family have benefitted greatly from it too, I just wish people would actually state categorically that it is deeply flawed and stop treating it like it's a perfect system when it isn't or that it's the "envy of the world" Trump clearly didn't even know what it was.
 By the way Beninho, I'd be careful what you call people. I got a warning because I called Mac a plank. What you have done is much worse. Fortunately I'm not the type to be insulted or offended, but some snowflake might complain on my behalf.

If the NHS was so bloody brilliant why do we lag behind many European countries in survival rates of many types of cancer for example? Why do we have to wait so long to be seen? Why are our medicines so expensive, why is there a post code lottery as to who receives what? It's not a perfect system, why do I get free prescriptions whilst England do not, especially when I'm happy to pay and whilst I'm glad it exists it's about time people started calling out where it fails. It needs serious reform and yes, perhaps some parts of it COULD/MIGHT end up benefitting from some sort of privatisation. We pay for dentistry and optometry for example. Why not pay small amounts for access to other parts? For example how about drunks clogging up A&E on a Saturday night pay a fee? THe NHS is being strangled by overweight people with Type 2 diabetes, a condition which is largely self inflicted. Shouldn't we be taxing what they are eating massively like we tax cigarettes? At least smokers put more into the economy than they take out through NHS treatment, what do Type 2 Diabetes contribute to the NHS compared to what they take out? Then there's the complications of this condition on heart disease, dementia (related to inactivity) etc

No fan of Corbyn at all, but I'm assuming he was stating his pride at the cultural aspect rather than the religious aspect. The fact that London is able to appoint a cultural Muslim as mayor should be something that should be celebrated in the same way that Obama being elected as President was celebrated. It hints at a tolerant and multi-cultural society.

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Post by beninho on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 9:03 am

A tolerant and multi cultural society is something most people should be proud of. Unfortunately realist is very much against that. He has cultivated a very intolerant persona. Make up an internet person, but don't make yourself out to be a Mr Winklechops. So weird.

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Post by wiretapper on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 9:09 am

During the last Labour governments the NHS's satisfaction and approval ratings were the highest they had ever been. Waiting times were dramatically reduced from where they had been in the 90s and survival rates up then Cameron got into power and his and subsequent governments have chipped away at it reducing the quality through chronic under-funding however despite this, it is still a provider of excellent health care and chance of survival for thousands of people.

Under a US style insurance based system we will have a lot more dead folks and a lot more bankrupt folks and many that are both and the thought of that disgusts me.

What the NHS did for my family and me can not be quantified and will fight to preserve it

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Post by JAS on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 10:36 am

super_realist wrote:
JAS wrote:
beninho wrote:
super_realist wrote:
wiretapper wrote:So Trump confirms he refused a meeting with Corbyn, the plot thickens.

He also confirms that the NHS will be on the table in any post-Brexit trade negotiations so thanks for that Brexiteers OK

I wish people would stop pretending that the NHS is something absolutely amazing. If it's so great, why does no other country in the world have the same model? We'd be better off with something like the French.

My sister, aged 38 has undergone 2 instances of cancer within the last few years. My mum is currently undergoing chemotherapy. My 2 children were born as cesarean section due to complications. I think the nhs is a bloody good service.  

Now why don't you fuk.off, you attention seeking cretin.


So Super... under the system that Trump’s going to encourage us to go with, Beninho and his family would be heading headlong toward bankruptcy and THAT is what a lot of people just don’t get. Some people blindly refuse to see the value in the NHS. Whilst it IS worth protecting from leechy vultures like Trump and cronies it’s not exactly the best going, the Scandinavians in general are much more social/welfare responsible than we have become. Quite frankly The benefit of the NHS should be stripped from idiots voting Tory because they are in fact voting for its demise.

Oh and in your other response can you offer up a specific quote, with dates and other relevant details where he specifically advocated anti-semitism? As a guide both for yourself and the Tory press, calling out Israeli atrocities against Palestine is not actually in itself anti Semitic. Probably also worth noting that Margaret Hodge is a disgruntled Blairite on the right fringe of the Labour Party who has lodged over half of all the anti Semitic allegations against the party...go figure. Do labour have an issue with anti Semitism? Yes they have some issues that need sorting but they’re not on the scale that the right wing press would have you believe. They are the weapon of choice from the Blairites trying to destabilise Corbyn. It’s quite pathetic really.

JAS, I don't give a toss about what Trump says or stands for, it's the hypocrisy of the demonstrators I have the issue with. For example supporters of the Labour party are telling us they're standing against racism, whilst being part of a racist party.  How can they square that?

Where did Corbyn advocate anti Semitism? How long did it take it to condemn it in his party. Has he expelled anyone for anti Semitism? No. He only suspends people like Degsy. He was a member of anti semitic groups on Facebook and commented positively on anti semitic imagery. If Talkradio can fire George Galloway over ONE anti semitic tweet, why won't Corbyn do that in the Labour Party?


Corbyn is also an idiot for saying he's proud to have a Muslim as a Mayor. Why would anyone be proud to have anyone of any stripe of religion in charge of anything and treat it like a badge of honour? Why would you be proud of someone who harbours bad and frankly absurd and indefensible beliefs. Why would you want to support and defend this Marxist buffoon? Are you proud to have representatives in the HOL from the clergy? I'm not, it's an embarrassment, and it's an embarrassment to point out Khan's religion as if it were a positive.

I agree that the NHS shouldn't end up in the hands of someone like Trump, however I do think we ought to stop treating it like some sort of "crown jewel" when it's very clearly in a right state through mismanagement by both political parties over several decades.

There's no need to get abusive Beninho. Members of my family have benefitted greatly from it too, I just wish people would actually state categorically that it is deeply flawed and stop treating it like it's a perfect system when it isn't or that it's the "envy of the world" Trump clearly didn't even know what it was.
 By the way Beninho, I'd be careful what you call people. I got a warning because I called Mac a plank. What you have done is much worse. Fortunately I'm not the type to be insulted or offended, but some snowflake might complain on my behalf.

If the NHS was so bloody brilliant why do we lag behind many European countries in survival rates of many types of cancer for example? Why do we have to wait so long to be seen? Why are our medicines so expensive, why is there a post code lottery as to who receives what? It's not a perfect system, why do I get free prescriptions whilst England do not, especially when I'm happy to pay and whilst I'm glad it exists it's about time people started calling out where it fails. It needs serious reform and yes, perhaps some parts of it COULD/MIGHT end up benefitting from some sort of privatisation. We pay for dentistry and optometry for example. Why not pay small amounts for access to other parts? For example how about drunks clogging up A&E on a Saturday night pay a fee? THe NHS is being strangled by overweight people with Type 2 diabetes, a condition which is largely self inflicted. Shouldn't we be taxing what they are eating massively like we tax cigarettes? At least smokers put more into the economy than they take out through NHS treatment, what do Type 2 Diabetes contribute to the NHS compared to what they take out? Then there's the complications of this condition on heart disease, dementia (related to inactivity) etc

Thanks Super that was a VERY specific example of Corbyn advocating anti Semitism (NOT). Is that really all you can base your allegations on (how long he took to condemn a trumped up charge of anti Semitism. Look, even many on the left struggle with Corbyns leadership persona, he doesn’t exactly come across as a dynamic go getter, that doesn’t make him foolish or idiotic. Rather than him having to continually defend himself, why don’t people actually dig a bit deeper behind the allegations including the sources and their motives?

Last paragraph....wow...just wow!!! Thanks very much for detailing the effect on the NHS over the past 10 years of Tory austerity cuts, pretty much nailed it, well done. There’s always been fat people, smokers and heavy drinkers btw. Actually the past few years has seen a massive decline in smoking in society although hasn’t yet fed through to a lesser burden on healthcare provision.
Don’t disagree on some sort of sugar/dietary tax but the food industry like the pharmaceutical industry is a powerful lobby, not quite as powerful and effective as the American gun lobby but they do hold influence over government. In my view right wing governments and powerful vested interests are natural bedfellows to the detriment of the masses. Left wing governments traditionally try to fight such vested interests on behalf of the people (Blair’s government sadly just didn’t do what it could have done in that respect)

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Post by McLaren on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 10:58 am

Super

I am not sure you would like the solution to improving the NHS. It consistently comes out as one of the best per $ health systems in world and therefore the best way to improve it is just to increase its funding.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 12:03 pm

wiretapper wrote:During the last Labour governments the NHS's satisfaction and approval ratings were the highest they had ever been. Waiting times were dramatically reduced from where they had been in the 90s and survival rates up then Cameron got into power and his and subsequent governments have chipped away at it reducing the quality through chronic under-funding however despite this, it is still a provider of excellent health care and chance of survival for thousands of people.

Under a US style insurance based system we will have a lot more dead folks and a lot more bankrupt folks and many that are both and the thought of that disgusts me.

What the NHS did for my family and me can not be quantified and will fight to preserve it
Remind me how PFI is benefiting us these days?

We don't pay enough for the service(s) we want/expect. Pretty simple really but apparently suggesting direct tax increases is anathema to any party these days. They really are stupid; they can't put a reasoned, budgeted argument to the electorate and defend it. Utterly useless - the lot of them.


Last edited by navyblueshorts on Wed 05 Jun 2019, 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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