ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 2:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Australia8141.00
India7110.85
New Zealand8110.57
England8101.00
Pakistan89-0.80
Sri Lanka88-0.93
Bangladesh77-0.13
South Africa85-0.08
West Indies83-0.36
Afghanistan80-1.42
Remaining Pool Fixtures

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 9:32 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 5:48 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Rashid gone.

That might be about it.

We should have taken the "generous odds " , Olly Smile

Not looking forward to KP_fan's column tomorrow...

I got £5 on at 5/1 after the Buttler wicket - Chinese is paid for tonight at least!

You bet against your team , Olly ?  For shame ! Smile

Years of heartbreak following Norwich will do that to you Wink
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 5:51 pm

We ain’t half batted badly here
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 5:52 pm

Sri Lanka’s hotel in Leeds must have a pool in it
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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 5:55 pm

Archer emulates Moeen ...as Rashid did Woakes earlier. They really haven't learned today , have they ?

Three matches left against NZ , Australia and India. Suddenly those semi finals are looking a lot further away.

I did warn everyone about the time Vince got out that this one was no gimme...but to be honest I expected better than this.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 5:58 pm

Going to be a lot of overreactions about making the semi finals now - they’ll still do it easily, but this I think shows that India are clear favourites for this tournament
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 6:04 pm

A pitiful performance with the bat from England. Still, they've got that pesky collapse out of the way! Moeen fails with the bat when the pressure is on again, unlike the easy excursion he had against Afghanistan.

Biggest upset of the World Cup by far, provided Sri Lanka get this last wicket. Stokes slogging away.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 6:09 pm

Brainless from the bowlers today : Moeen , Woakes , Archer and Rashid all basically got themselves out when they just had to stay with Stokes ...

All over now...

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 6:12 pm

alfie wrote:Brainless from the bowlers today : Moeen , Woakes , Archer and Rashid all basically got themselves out when they just had to stay with Stokes ...

All over now...

Agreed, some very weak dismissals. They just had to nudge and nurdle and let Stokes do the majority of the work; instead they played with fire and fury and got burnt. Wood got a good nut, mind.

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Post by alfie on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 6:14 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Going to be a lot of overreactions about making the semi finals now - they’ll still do it easily, but this I think shows that India are clear favourites for this tournament

Not over reaction , Olly. They've now been challenged twice , and failed both times. While NZ and Australia have been challenged...but have still found a way to win.

Should still make the semis , but the only reason that is "easy" is that no one else is likely to get more than ten points ...and one more win will see England there with a good run rate.

But on that display I really can't see them making the final let alone winning the thing.

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Post by VTR on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 6:16 pm

Very poor today. Maybe it's a masterstroke from Morgan to take the pressure off, England can now sneak up with low expectations and grab the trophy!

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Post by KP_fan on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 8:38 pm

*Short Summary* England drown in their own hype

*Long analysis* There is nothing new for me to say that I have not written earlier and probably dozens of times

1-That 270 on board is always a fighting total against decent bowling sides......actually that number might be 250 in England.
It was quite visible in India feeling tight in 230 chase vs SA and NZ's stuttered lucky chases of 240isih totals against BD & SA.

2-That Pressure of World cup games can ONLY be felt in world-cup or closest to it in Champions Trophy

3-That Bilateral ODis serve purpose as  practice/ optimize your combo games these days for the teams and cash flow for boards.

Eng's problem will now be how to manage the emotion of shock/disbelief and sinking feeling.....that they and their media / fans tried to write as a one-off vs Pak....but there is no where to hide after the game of today.
Because of the expectation & hype built around them self.
Sad

Winning two out of 3 games vs Ind, Aus and NZ is not impossible but a very hard task given not the lack of skill but the aforesaid emotion in bold.
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Post by Duty281 on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 8:52 pm

England will still win the World Cup, but watching the knee jerk overreaction today will be amusing in its own right. It was a poor, complacent performance with the bat. It happens. Move on.

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Post by eirebilly on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 9:16 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Sri Lanka should not be written off just yet. On their day they can still beat any team. A very good toss for them to win and they have the bowling to defend a decent total, should they get one.


The only match theyve won away from home since Jan 2018 were against Afghanistan and Scotland. Theyve not beaten a top 8 team outside Aisa since the Champions trophy.

Their day does not happen very often. Theyve been poor for a long time.

It doesn't read good, I will grant you that but I always have a very uneasy feeling playing against Sri Lanka.


I had an uneasy feeling about today, always fear Sri Lanka.
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Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 10:07 pm

Winning one game out of three should be enough to qualify for England as that gets them to 10 points.

SL - SA, WI and India - need to win 3/3 to get to 12, as their NRR is unlikely to be enough.
Ban - Afghan, Pak, India - need to win 3/3 to get to 11. I wonder if India would rest a few players as they will have qualified by then?!
WI - NZ, India, SL, Afghan - need to win 4/4 to get to 11 and can’t see it.
Pak - SA, NZ, Afghan, Ban - need to win 4/4 to get to 11, again, will be an ask.

So Bangladesh are the most likely to get to 11, especially with India last who might be resting players. So one win *should* be enough, not that is solves any problems re. England so far.

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Post by JDizzle on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 10:08 pm

Also, an excellent bit of data from CricViz about England performances on ‘tough’ pitches. Worrying for the tournament going on.

https://twitter.com/benjonescricket/status/1142168938043904001?s=21

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Post by Pal Joey on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 11:33 pm

eirebilly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Sri Lanka should not be written off just yet. On their day they can still beat any team. A very good toss for them to win and they have the bowling to defend a decent total, should they get one.


The only match theyve won away from home since Jan 2018 were against Afghanistan and Scotland. Theyve not beaten a top 8 team outside Aisa since the Champions trophy.

Their day does not happen very often. Theyve been poor for a long time.

It doesn't read good, I will grant you that but I always have a very uneasy feeling playing against Sri Lanka.


I had an uneasy feeling about today, always fear Sri Lanka.

I was about to post a reply along the lines of: "this isn't 1996... or 2011 anymore. Yer livin' in the past, mun." with the mandatory silly smile.

Glad I didn't... because (like you Billy) I'm still a little hard-wired when it comes to SL's past performances over the years. Even if they have been rubbish in recent times. That's not why I didn't hit "Send" though. I got distracted (lost interest more like!) thinking this will be a cakewalk... and watched some Women's Origin (NSW 14-4) and Tour of Slovenia instead... hoping to see Melania's home village. No mention of it. Crying or Very sad

Then I went to sleep at 3 wickets down. I think "The Predictor" had England 95%, Sri Lanka 5% at the time... with Nasser Hussain gloating on about how "exceptional this England team is"... and "they have such a strong tail" Yeah, yeah, yeah... a bucket of iced-water for you, Sir.

So Olly... maybe I jinxed them? Wink
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Post by VTR on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 6:29 am

England's strong tail is a bit of a fallacy if they refuse to play whilst actually engaging their brains. As stated by others, all they had to do was stay with Stokes. Moeen is arguably not part of the tail but was shocking. Having hit the six a batsman with a brain would play the rest of the over cautiously but obviously he didn't.

That match is either going to be a wake up call, or a very costly mistake

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 6:37 am

India need a solid win today vs. AFG but should look to fulfill following additional objectives

-Give a proper batting opportunity to Shankar & Jadhav....maybe by putting them at No.s 3 and 4
-Shami for Bhuvi.....and let Shami bowl his full 10 overs in the game regardless of match situations
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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 6:42 am

Having slept on it I thought I'd consider what yesterday really means for England and the WC .

First for the competition it obviously fixes what everyone was moaning about : the perceived "early settlement" of the final four. England are one more loss away from entering sudden death territory and several teams are theoretically capable of winning enough games to make the cut off. I'd still reckon England have the edge due to a good run rate and current lead ; but it can't now be completely settled until a another round or so have been played. Will keep everyone except Afghanistan at least interested for a while....

For the home team ? Well it has to go down as a bit of a disaster . One loss - to Pakistan - could be shrugged off as a glitch ; but this coming so soon after points to one of three things.
1/ Sheer arrogant complacency ? Have to think there has been at least a little of this at play. The refusal to tinker with the team ; the insistence that "we will keep playing the same way" no matter what (except they didn't : faced with a tricky pitch and some early wickets England retreated into old style nudging around for singles - and it might have worked if Root hadn't got out rather unnecessarily and Buttler picked a rotten time for a rare failure . But then the tail (which must now include Moeen) apparently decided they could do what the proper batsmen couldn't and bash their way to victory...leaving Stokes high and dry. Not smart)
Why have they insisted on playing the same attack ( the one that has now featured in both lost games ) when they have other perfectly competent bowlers sitting around ? Contrast Australia who are making tactical changes - winning as they do - and working towards finding their best actual combination . England are now nearly boxed in to one method as it will take some bravery to mess around at this or a later stage. And what has being ignored done to the confidence of the likes of Curran and Dawson , I wonder ?
2/ The change from the sort of game they have been used to playing ( very flat pitches , no real pressure ) to these more edgy contests on slightly tricky tracks has exposed the pre-tournament belief that "we can chase anything" as a bit of a myth and the resultant loss of confidence has spooked them ? I certainly think there is now a strong case for batting first if they get the chance in the upcoming big games. Sample size still small but this looks possible.
3/ (with my gloomiest hat on) They just aren't anywhere near as good as everyone thought ?  Lot of easy wins when everyone was just tinkering with their teams ...but once the other teams got serious they find themselves back in the pack...

The nature of this tournament means they have plenty of scope to recover : one win almost certainly gets them in (can probably even concoct a set of results that would see them survive losing the lot !) and once you have a semi final spot it only takes two good matches. Though if they were to fall into the knockouts with say five wins and four losses the confidence would be pretty low , you'd imagine.
And it may well be that the bashing they are likely to cop in the media now will put a bit of fire in them and inspire a return to form.(I'm sure Morgan doesn't want his head mounted (metaphorically ) on a pike and displayed on London Bridge - or his face photo-shopped on to a potato in the tabloid press) and nor will the team wish to pass into history as Bayliss's Bottlers...but they really need to bounce back emphatically and soon if they're to maintain a realistic hope of success.

Hey I'm not giving up the quest for the Holy Grail yet ; but Tuesday is looming as a bit of a watershed . Victory over Australia will restore a lot of faith all round ; another loss would leave hopes hanging by a thread. Am actually expecting them to get it right this time ; but am not putting any money on it ...

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 7:55 am

JDizzle wrote:Winning one game out of three should be enough to qualify for England as that gets them to 10 points.

SL - SA, WI and India - need to win 3/3 to get to 12, as their NRR is unlikely to be enough.
Ban - Afghan, Pak, India - need to win 3/3 to get to 11. I wonder if India would rest a few players as they will have qualified by then?!
WI - NZ, India, SL, Afghan - need to win 4/4 to get to 11 and can’t see it.
Pak - SA, NZ, Afghan, Ban - need to win 4/4 to get to 11, again, will be an ask.

So Bangladesh are the most likely to get to 11, especially with India last who might be resting players. So one win *should* be enough, not that is solves any problems re. England so far.

-At this point Aus, Ind and NZ are looking very likely too go through

-Pak's fate will be  sealed tomm if they lose to SA.......but if they win their next 2 games vs SA & NZ....then they are the biggest threat to knocking Eng off as their last two games are BD and Afg
BD is in with a decent chance if they beat India ( which is very difficult)......but if they do, Pak might given them a pseudo walkover into semis if Pak is out by that time.

-In all of this we are assuming Eng will win atleast 1 game to get to 10 points .....else even those with 9 points could be eligible....and new scenarios will emerge.
However if they win 2 games...then too this discussion becomes moot.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 8:16 am

alfie wrote:Having slept on it I thought I'd consider what yesterday really means for England and the WC .

First for the competition it obviously fixes what everyone was moaning about : the perceived "early settlement" of the final four. England are one more loss away from entering sudden death territory and several teams are theoretically capable of winning enough games to make the cut off. I'd still reckon England have the edge due to a good run rate and current lead ; but it can't now be completely settled until a another round or so have been played. Will keep everyone except Afghanistan at least interested for a while....

For the home team ? Well it has to go down as a bit of a disaster . One loss - to Pakistan - could be shrugged off as a glitch ; but this coming so soon after points to one of three things.
1/ Sheer arrogant complacency ? Have to think there has been at least a little of this at play. The refusal to tinker with the team ; the insistence that "we will keep playing the same way" no matter what (except they didn't : faced with a tricky pitch and some early wickets England retreated into old style nudging around for singles - and it might have worked if Root hadn't got out rather unnecessarily and Buttler picked a rotten time for a rare failure . But then the tail (which must now include Moeen) apparently decided they could do what the proper batsmen couldn't and bash their way to victory...leaving Stokes high and dry. Not smart)
Why have they insisted on playing the same attack ( the one that has now featured in both lost games ) when they have other perfectly competent bowlers sitting around ? Contrast Australia who are making tactical changes - winning as they do - and working towards finding their best actual combination . England are now nearly boxed in to one method as it will take some bravery to mess around at this or a later stage. And what has being ignored done to the confidence of the likes of Curran and Dawson , I wonder ?
2/ The change from the sort of game they have been used to playing ( very flat pitches , no real pressure ) to these more edgy contests on slightly tricky tracks has exposed the pre-tournament belief that "we can chase anything" as a bit of a myth and the resultant loss of confidence has spooked them ? I certainly think there is now a strong case for batting first if they get the chance in the upcoming big games. Sample size still small but this looks possible.
3/ (with my gloomiest hat on) They just aren't anywhere near as good as everyone thought ?  Lot of easy wins when everyone was just tinkering with their teams ...but once the other teams got serious they find themselves back in the pack...

The nature of this tournament means they have plenty of scope to recover : one win almost certainly gets them in (can probably even concoct a set of results that would see them survive losing the lot !) and once you have a semi final spot it only takes two good matches. Though if they were to fall into the knockouts with say five wins and four losses the confidence would be pretty low , you'd imagine.
And it may well be that the bashing they are likely to cop in the media now will put a bit of fire in them and inspire a return to form.(I'm sure Morgan doesn't want his head mounted (metaphorically ) on a pike and displayed on London Bridge - or his face photo-shopped on to a potato in the tabloid press) and nor will the team wish to pass into history as Bayliss's Bottlers...but they really need to bounce back emphatically and soon if they're to maintain a realistic hope of success.

Hey I'm not giving up the quest for the Holy Grail yet ; but Tuesday is looming as a bit of a watershed . Victory over Australia will restore a lot of faith all round ; another loss would leave hopes hanging by a thread. Am actually expecting them to get it right this time ; but am not putting any money on it ...

Alfie I really don’t understand point 1 here - surely if they were complacent they’d have been changing the XI to get their “lesser”” players some game time? I don’t see how you can blame the bowlers for yesterday too, they deserve some cop for the Pakistan game (albeit that was the fielding mainly), but yesterday after losing the toss and the other team batting first we restricted them to under 250!

And I think the “proper batsmen” have got off a bit lightly. Bairstow is quietly having a decidedly meh tournament, Vince did a Vince and Buttler/Morgan didn’t cover themselves in glory either. Root also out poorly. Whilst the tail played idiotically yes, they shouldn’t have been put in that position in the first place.

I think some of the over reaction on twitter and in the media has been nonsense to be honest. The idea they’re going to miss the semi finals and don’t deserve to make it is silly, as was KP_F’s myth about us all thinking they’ll win every game by 300 runs - the reality is somewhere in the middle, I would say that India should now be clear favourites for the tournament with NZ, ENG and AUS all tightly packed behind, going into their round robin of games against each other.

Anybody writing off their chances after this game I think is going to be made to look rather silly come the end of the group stages.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 8:40 am

Also with the semi final situations - even if England lose all their remaining games, Sri Lanka are still going to need to win 2 of their three remaining games with the net run rate situation - they have vs SA at Durham, vs West Indies at Durham and also vs India at Headingley. I can’t see that happening.

Bangladesh the more likely to win 2 of their remaining 3 I’d say - vs Afghanistan today, vs India and vs Pakistan. They mathematically need to win 2 of their remaining 3 to overhaul England even if England lose their final three games.

West Indies and Pakistan aren’t going to do it, I think they are definitely ruled out personally (even if they win their next game)
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 8:42 am

JDizzle wrote:Winning one game out of three should be enough to qualify for England as that gets them to 10 points.

SL - SA, WI and India - need to win 3/3 to get to 12, as their NRR is unlikely to be enough.
Ban - Afghan, Pak, India - need to win 3/3 to get to 11. I wonder if India would rest a few players as they will have qualified by then?!
WI - NZ, India, SL, Afghan - need to win 4/4 to get to 11 and can’t see it.
Pak - SA, NZ, Afghan, Ban - need to win 4/4 to get to 11, again, will be an ask.

So Bangladesh are the most likely to get to 11, especially with India last who might be resting players. So one win *should* be enough, not that is solves any problems re. England so far.

Nothing changes, England are still guaranteed to get through. I'd expect England to win two of their last three games, but let's see how it pans out.

Looking at the remaining fixtures, it looks as though India will top the group, Australia and NZ second and third, with England in fourth. Of course, the odd shock here and there and a dollop of rain could alter that!


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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 9:47 am

Hey Olly

To answer your points.(and I should note that the whole summary was intended to be a bit "devil's advocate" anyway)
I did not intend to come across as "blaming the bowlers" (except for their batting contributions - which were undeniably dumb) Clearly this game was lost by poor batting. And obviously the top six , (Root and Stokes honorable exceptions apart from the slightly questionable rather measured approach which Graeme Swann has been slamming - a choice which can of course be debated ) are mainly to blame for this.
My point was more that it is not a good idea to simply assume one attack plan is the only method worth pursuing . Michael Vaughan insists that this bowling attack is the best they can put up ; but this attack has seen both Pakistan and Afghanistan get their best score of the Cup , and featured in both losses. Isn't it reasonable to at least have a bit of a look at alternative combinations ? To say nothing of the value of resting key players in a fairly demanding series of matches. If it all works out , fine. But I just feel they are not taking advantage of having a very able squad rather than just a good eleven and a few spares deemed to be inferior without getting a chance to show what they can do. We will see.

As I did conclude , I still think England will make the semis. But they will have to play a lot better - and a lot smarter - if they're to be serious contenders to win the whole thing. I think you among others are giving them very charitable treatment for what has been a pretty inconsistent set of efforts against the six "weaker" teams in this tournament. They need to make a bit of a statement against the good ones if they're to live up to their reputation.

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 10:14 am

Just to add : my main real concern is the contrast between England's performance under pressure with that of Australia and NZ.

I actually believe this England team (whichever XI takes the field) is probably a little better overall , man for man , than either of the others. But when Australia and NZ have got into tight corners - as they each have in a couple of games - they have managed to win. England haven't.
Small sample . But it suggests that England might have become accustomed to front running and have mislaid their capacity for scrapping in a tight game . Hopefully they can recover it because I'm not sure they'll be getting too many easy games from here on.

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 10:28 am

Very astute comments, Alfie. Especially the not tinkering with the team and the established game plan / match approach remarks..

I understand there is the temptation to get the best possible XI established (as they have over the last few years) and stick with it. In that way they have developed some cohesion and confidence up until the Pakistan match. The warm up match v Australia can be discounted.

The problem for the England selectors now is whether they stubbornly insist that this current group is set in stone regardless of the two losses; or start tinkering from now on. That would add even more pressure I feel. It's imperative in a tournament where there are possibly 11 matches including the final that the preferred players for the knockout matches are rotated and rested against the weaker sides. If not, there is always a risk of injury or the possibility of having a bad day. Australia's dilemma, in a way, has forced them to chop and change somewhat - yet they are managing to get the wins save for India.

Also I'm not totally convinced by this 'blast other teams away' (when batting first) approach to their game plan and the silly talk of scoring 500 runs. It's simply not going to happen this tournament. It's incredibly high risk... and as we saw yesterday on the Headingley pitch... far from achievable for any team including England. Dare I say it: let's hope there's a Plan B. It's not so easy to change tack now (with that signature game plan and mental approach) this far into a World Cup. Still think they can do it but they'll be asking questions amongst themselves and with any shadows of doubt appearing they could well lose some of that gung-ho mojo and erode away some of that well-acquired cohesion and confidence if they're not careful.


Last edited by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 10:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by VTR on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 10:30 am

For today's firsr game, which I won't be following that closely I have to admit, with India winning the toss on such a glorious day, if Rohit can get going from the start this looks like the best chance of 500 we are going to see in this tournament. I don't expect it to happen, maybe a 5% chance, but pretty sure it will be a 400+ score

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:04 am

So even India has caught onto the Aussie slow start method... plodding along, not looking so sure of themselves.  Smile
Yes, it is a little reminiscent of the 90s as Goose said a few days back. Even the 80s.

Spoke too soon. Here they go!
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:20 am

Pal Joey wrote:So even India has caught onto the Aussie slow start method... plodding along, not looking so sure of themselves.  Smile
Yes, it is a little reminiscent of the 90s as Goose said a few days back. Even the 80s.

Spoke too soon. Here they go!

The pitch is slowish and gripping &' the type that AFG would like....only problem that they have it against a side that's more proficient then them in handling such pitches.
This is a 270 run pitch....

The Indian template has always been get-set, rotate strike.....don't worry about RR and keep as many wickets in hand for as long as possible.
Ensure you don't get bowled out for a sub-par score.....and when that risk ( of being bowled out) is out of the way...start accelerating.
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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:22 am

Yesterday's game was the best of the tournament. The bowlers were in the game throughout, and give me a close low-scoring game over those 300+ nonsense any day. With the kind of form that Sri Lanka was in and with the kind of all-round incompetence that their game was characterized by in recent, this has to be a serious upset for sure. When I said it yesterday that Lanka's best chance was in batting first and putting up a total on the board. They didn't put much of a total as such, but even 232 became something when Malinga roled the clock back and took out Bairstow early. He came back and earned his luck with Root, but the one that got Buttler was classic Slinga! Even then, had Mark Wood survived that one delivery from Pradeep, England still could have managed to snatch it away from the Lankans as Stokes was seeing them big and smashing them. Poor fro England's batsmen overall, and the likes of Moeen Ali were massive let downs. They need to be more adaptable, these pitches are prepared by the ICC, and though they are among the big 3, even then you wouldn't always get highways all the time. Their depth, power and attitudes make them the best highway side in the world, can set any total, can chase most of it usually. But while their evolution in limited overs have been absolutely admirable, they need to be flexible in their approach. In fact Root has been doing a great job of it, and even the skipper was trying to be adaptable. Stokes too took his time before playing a more expansive game. But the rest weren't up to it, Ali, is he now selected only for his spin bowling? His performance was emblematic of the inflexibility that have generally hampered New England in recent times. It was absolutely irresponsible and downright silly what he did. That too when Stokes was playing the kind of innings that he was playing.
To be fair, England have been trying to be more flexible in recent times, the first game against South Africa in fact benefited them big because of such an approach, score more than par at the end because they gave themselves the opportunity to get to the par initially. Perhaps they underestimated Sri Lanka and based their approach on the opposition rather than themselves. Don't see England not making it to the next round.
They will be pretty much switched on for the 3 tough games they have aginst India, Australia and New Zealand. I would suggest they go in at par with all the 3 sides in their respective games. So they can lose all 3, but they pretty well can win all 3. Think they certainly will win one of them and will make it to the next round.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:31 am

So India batting first against Afghanistan. And they are in some early strife at 64-2 in the 15th over. Both openers gone, Rohit went early to Mujeeb for 1 and Rahul, not for the first time in his career, got a start and then promptly wasted it. Vijay Shankar in at 4, this is his chance to make a big one. He is more suited to playing this type of a role, he is a liability coming in after 45 overs as he just can't get going from the first ball. Kohli on to a bright start, he now needs to hold this innings together and shut out the early impetus generated by Afghanistan. Remember, they do have a decent enough bowling lineup despite the pasting they took from Morgan and England the other day.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:35 am

I'm refusing to watch cricket anymore it's just a silly sport...too many shock results.
(Various emojis)

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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 11:59 am

If Afghanistan can get through Virat somehow before he goes really big, they would still be in the game. The Indian skipper gets his 3rd 50 of the tournament.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:02 pm

msp83 wrote:If Afghanistan can get through Virat somehow before he goes really big, they would still be in the game. The Indian skipper gets his 3rd 50 of the tournament.

Naah...against this bowling.....Shankar, Jadhav, dhoni, padya and tail will all get 30s and 40s and gett us to 270...even if kohli falls
although I am betting on a Shankar 100 today
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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:16 pm

KP_fan wrote:
msp83 wrote:If Afghanistan can get through Virat somehow before he goes really big, they would still be in the game. The Indian skipper gets his 3rd 50 of the tournament.

Naah...against this bowling.....Shankar, Jadhav, dhoni, padya and tail will all get 30s and 40s and gett us to 270...even if kohli falls
although I am betting on a Shankar 100 today

In a virtual sense... not with real money I hope. Very Happy
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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:18 pm

Vijay Shankar misses out on a great opportunity...

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Post by VTR on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:19 pm

Better than I thought Afghanistan could ever do so far. Still won't be enough to make a game of it, their batting is pretty woeful. I am also not ruling out a late charge to 400, the wheels can come off very quickly as we saw the other day

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:34 pm

India's needs to revise it's target in their mind to 250 and play towards it

Pitch is slow and very difficult to score off....and Rameez made a good point that AFG should bowl with spinners all the way and they have 4 of them.
India also has 3 spinners ( incl Jadhav).....and padya should bowl a lot of slow cutters Like Udana did yesterday
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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:36 pm

Well, India in serious trouble now. With Virat gone, they would need someone to now take charge of the innings, bat all the overs and get pass 270 280. Remember after Hardik who would come in next, there is no batting whatsoever left... Great job done by the Afghan bowlers so far. If they restric India under 260, they would be in with a chance to create the biggest upset of the tournament.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:40 pm

Expect MS to now bat in the first gear for the next 10 overs! Kedar will have to make sure he keeps the board moving enough. MS would think of a shot in anger now around the 47th over...

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Post by alfie on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:51 pm

Just joined this : what the devil are India playing at ? Is it a minefield or have Afghanistan suddenly acquired magical bowling skills ?

Still time for india to get 280 I suppose but it doesn't look like happening ...and a wicket or two now could see a longish tail exposed...

This is the team that England took for about five hundred the other day , isn't it ?

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:51 pm

Interesting, wasn't expecting this to be close! If Afghanistan can limit India to below 270, they have a decent chance.

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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:52 pm

Dhoni not rotating the strike as has been the norm with him these days when he comes in early. Kedar too, isn't doing great on that front. And with him out there for company, MS can't even run the quick singles as Jadhav's injury record isn't too great.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:53 pm

msp83 wrote:Expect MS to now bat in the first gear for the next 10 overs! Kedar will have to make sure he keeps the board moving enough. MS would think of a shot in anger now around the 47th over...

target for now...don't get bowled out....so bat next 10 overs out for 40-50 runs

then think about accelerating
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Post by msp83 on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:56 pm

Perhaps they should have send in Pandya, he's a destroyer of spinners though this is a pitch where you can't just keep hitting through the line every ball as the ball is gripping on the track and coming off a touch slower. MS and Kedar needn't take any major risk, but should keep the singles going, else things could get tricky. You can't expect Bumrah and co to get big runs at the end as he's coached by Chris Martin at the Courtney Walsh Academy of batting.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 12:58 pm

msp83 wrote:Perhaps they should have send in Pandya, he's a destroyer of spinners though this is a pitch where you can't just keep hitting through the line every ball as the ball is gripping on the track and coming off a touch slower. MS and Kedar needn't take any major risk, but should keep the singles going, else things could get tricky. You can't expect Bumrah and co to get big runs at the end as he's coached by Chris Martin at the Courtney Walsh Academy of batting.

I think Pandya is Ok in the last 5....it's not his type of pitch.
It's not an easy pitch....it's no better than yesterday's pitch.....probably even slower and stickier
so we need to bat out the overs......there is a real risk of getting bowled out if we go too hard
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Post by KP_fan on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 1:02 pm

mistake to bring on medum pacer....should continue bowling spin as Rameez said earlier
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Post by VTR on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 1:02 pm

Afghanistan have really impressed but this won't be anything like close. Even if India only crawl to just under 250, I'm backing them to win by 100 runs

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 1:04 pm

Well, India are making hard work of this

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Post by Pal Joey on Sat 22 Jun 2019, 1:05 pm

In the other game, West Indies won the toss and chose to bowl first. Looks a nice day... not sure why they wouldn't bat.
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