ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 21 Jun 2019, 2:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Australia8141.00
India7110.85
New Zealand8110.57
England8101.00
Pakistan89-0.80
Sri Lanka88-0.93
Bangladesh77-0.13
South Africa85-0.08
West Indies83-0.36
Afghanistan80-1.42
Remaining Pool Fixtures

Tue, Jul 2 
10:30 Bangladesh vs India (Edgbaston)

Wed, Jul 3 
10:30 England vs New Zealand (Riverside Ground)

Thu, Jul 4 
10:30 Afghanistan vs West Indies (Headingley)

Fri, Jul 5 
10:30 Bangladesh vs Pakistan (Lord’s)

Sat, Jul 6 
10:30 India vs Sri Lanka (Headingley)
13:30 Australia vs South Africa (Old Trafford)




Knock Out Fixtures


To Follow


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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 9:36 am

Playing the rope ....
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/australia-champions-trophy-warm-up-match-short-45m-boundary-edgbaston-glenn-maxwell-chris-lynn/2017-05-29

(Ps the exact boundary lengths vary on which pitch is used, the ground diagram shows the lengths from a middle one, the decision on which on to use for which game was made weeks ago) 

India get the advantage in this game of having had the additional preparation time on the ground with the unusually long boundary on one side and knowing how not to bowl.
 Bangladesh on the other hand have been shipped all over the country and had to adapt their game to ever changing venues, including a circular one. They havent even moaned about their swimming pools. The Indian media hasn't refused to attend any of their press conferences.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:12 am

Did I see correctly the other day when they had a distance tracker on Stokes... and he'd done over 17 km or 10.5 miles for that game v India?

If so.. the Indians must be feeling a little sore still even if a player did say 13 km or about 8 miles on Sunday.

Then again; they had a bit of a rest at the start of the tournament so there should be no complaints.


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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:12 am

Gooseberry wrote:Going back to Robos post about the next world cup qualification ....
Ireland just beat Zimbabwe to move level on points in the rankings with them. Netherlands also beat them twice last week and are now ranked above Scotland. 
Netherlands havent played a top 10 side since 2013, so the tri series against England i really quite a big deal for them. Good to see they are headed back in the right direction (although I suspect that this is also a case of Zimbabwe sliding further into oblivion).

After that group of teams its a huge slide off to Nepal, UAE and PNG based on the rankings. Beyond that you really are into club level teams. 

Its a bit rough on Scotland that they will miss out on the 13 team super league thing, especially as they have actually beaten a number one ranked side in recent times. They are head and shoulders above the teams in the second string qualifier, but thats who most of their games during the initial qualification period will have to be against.

All the countries 11-13 have a few decent series - definitely more stuff than they have been getting.

Netherlands: England, Ireland, Pakistan, West Indies (H). Afghanistan, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (A).
Ireland: Bangladesh, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (H). Afghanistan, England, Netherlands, West Indies (A).
Zimbabwe: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Netherlands (H). Australia, Ireland, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (A).

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:15 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Going back to Robos post about the next world cup qualification ....
Ireland just beat Zimbabwe to move level on points in the rankings with them. Netherlands also beat them twice last week and are now ranked above Scotland. 
Netherlands havent played a top 10 side since 2013, so the tri series against England i really quite a big deal for them. Good to see they are headed back in the right direction (although I suspect that this is also a case of Zimbabwe sliding further into oblivion).

After that group of teams its a huge slide off to Nepal, UAE and PNG based on the rankings. Beyond that you really are into club level teams. 

Its a bit rough on Scotland that they will miss out on the 13 team super league thing, especially as they have actually beaten a number one ranked side in recent times. They are head and shoulders above the teams in the second string qualifier, but thats who most of their games during the initial qualification period will have to be against.

All the countries 11-13 have a few decent series - definitely more stuff than they have been getting.

Netherlands: England, Ireland, Pakistan, West Indies (H). Afghanistan, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (A).
Ireland: Bangladesh, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (H). Afghanistan, England, Netherlands, West Indies (A).
Zimbabwe: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Netherlands (H). Australia, Ireland, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (A).

Yeah it just seems very unfortunate for Scotland to get left out of that group when rankings and recent results wise they are on a par with them.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:18 am

Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Going back to Robos post about the next world cup qualification ....
Ireland just beat Zimbabwe to move level on points in the rankings with them. Netherlands also beat them twice last week and are now ranked above Scotland. 
Netherlands havent played a top 10 side since 2013, so the tri series against England i really quite a big deal for them. Good to see they are headed back in the right direction (although I suspect that this is also a case of Zimbabwe sliding further into oblivion).

After that group of teams its a huge slide off to Nepal, UAE and PNG based on the rankings. Beyond that you really are into club level teams. 

Its a bit rough on Scotland that they will miss out on the 13 team super league thing, especially as they have actually beaten a number one ranked side in recent times. They are head and shoulders above the teams in the second string qualifier, but thats who most of their games during the initial qualification period will have to be against.

All the countries 11-13 have a few decent series - definitely more stuff than they have been getting.

Netherlands: England, Ireland, Pakistan, West Indies (H). Afghanistan, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (A).
Ireland: Bangladesh, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (H). Afghanistan, England, Netherlands, West Indies (A).
Zimbabwe: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Netherlands (H). Australia, Ireland, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (A).

Yeah it just seems very unfortunate for Scotland to get left out of that group when rankings and recent results wise they are on a par with them.

Yeah that's fair, I was looking more at the top point I guess.

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Post by KP_fan on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:20 am

So Bhuvi-in...Kohli says to account for small boundary in place of Kuldeep.
Well I think there are more reasons such as BD play spin better, especially when pitch is relatively flat......we need to test Bhuvi's fitness as he is a world class bowler on any pitch and he can bat too

Karthik in for Jadhav.....and it's a horse for course move.,....struggles against 90mph pace but he can hit slow, medium pace, spin on non spinning wickets i.e low threat bowling with power and reverse sweeps ( almost a batsman out of Eng team)    Smile

The flip side is if the pitch spins India has neither a second nor 3rd spinner today....but have 3 WKs

BUT now that Ind have won the toss...they will very likely put it across comfortably
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:23 am

Current WinViz:

India 69%, Bangladesh 30%, Tie 1%.

Interesting to see how this changes through the day.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:25 am

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Going back to Robos post about the next world cup qualification ....
Ireland just beat Zimbabwe to move level on points in the rankings with them. Netherlands also beat them twice last week and are now ranked above Scotland. 
Netherlands havent played a top 10 side since 2013, so the tri series against England i really quite a big deal for them. Good to see they are headed back in the right direction (although I suspect that this is also a case of Zimbabwe sliding further into oblivion).

After that group of teams its a huge slide off to Nepal, UAE and PNG based on the rankings. Beyond that you really are into club level teams. 

Its a bit rough on Scotland that they will miss out on the 13 team super league thing, especially as they have actually beaten a number one ranked side in recent times. They are head and shoulders above the teams in the second string qualifier, but thats who most of their games during the initial qualification period will have to be against.

All the countries 11-13 have a few decent series - definitely more stuff than they have been getting.

Netherlands: England, Ireland, Pakistan, West Indies (H). Afghanistan, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (A).
Ireland: Bangladesh, New Zealand, South Africa, Zimbabwe (H). Afghanistan, England, Netherlands, West Indies (A).
Zimbabwe: Afghanistan, Bangladesh, India, Netherlands (H). Australia, Ireland, Pakistan, Sri Lanka (A).

Yeah it just seems very unfortunate for Scotland to get left out of that group when rankings and recent results wise they are on a par with them.

Yeah that's fair, I was looking more at the top point I guess.

More on this, there was a 2015-17 World League. Netherlands finished top with 10 wins out of 14 (2 no results), Scotland finished second with 8 wins out of 14 (3 no results). Both Scotland vs Netherland games were washed out.

That's why Netherlands are in there over Scotland. Not sure why it's cut-off at 13 though. Not everyone plays everyone, so you can have more teams.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:40 am

KP_fan wrote:So Bhuvi-in...Kohli says to account for small boundary in place of Kuldeep.
Well I think there are more reasons such as BD play spin better, especially when pitch is relatively flat......we need to test Bhuvi's fitness as he is a world class bowler on any pitch and he can bat too

Karthik in for Jadhav.....and it's a horse for course move.,....struggles against 90mph pace but he can hit slow, medium pace, spin on non spinning wickets i.e low threat bowling with power and reverse sweeps ( almost a batsman out of Eng team)    Smile

The flip side is if the pitch spins India has neither a second nor 3rd spinner today....but have 3 WKs

BUT now that Ind have won the toss...they will very likely put it across comfortably


If only they'd bothered to check Englands record against spinners, including the last time they played England in England where the spin pair went 96/0. With a full sized boundary.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:44 am

6 off the 4th ball, its almost as if England bowled well to not gift those.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 10:51 am

Simply hopeless fielding...
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Post by alfie on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:03 am

Gooseberry wrote:Playing the rope ....
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/australia-champions-trophy-warm-up-match-short-45m-boundary-edgbaston-glenn-maxwell-chris-lynn/2017-05-29

(Ps the exact boundary lengths vary on which pitch is used, the ground diagram shows the lengths from a middle one, the decision on which on to use for which game was made weeks ago) 

India get the advantage in this game of having had the additional preparation time on the ground with the unusually long boundary on one side and knowing how not to bowl.
 Bangladesh on the other hand have been shipped all over the country and had to adapt their game to ever changing venues, including a circular one. They havent even moaned about their swimming pools. The Indian media hasn't refused to attend any of their press conferences.

Glad to see someone has highlighted this - rather an obvious result of using different pitches I'd have thought. You can't play them all on the middle one ; so one boundary or the other is likely to be in the short side... The conspiracy theory was transparent nonsense from the off.

I think Kohli was just a bit grumpy after the game , to be honest And no doubt regretting the decision to go with two spinners. No such excuse for KP_fan though ... He was just enjoying getting under England supporters' skins . A pretty good windup I reckon , deserves a OK

Wonder where the pitch for the semi final will be located ? It is quite possible the same two teams will face each other , depending on results.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:10 am

I believe they have saved the very middle pitch at the three grounds for the knockout games.

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Post by No name Bertie on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:13 am

Pal Joey wrote:Simply hopeless fielding...
Tamim Iqbal was running to get that ball, on somewhat slippery grass, with the ball coming from the direction of the sun - the ball never got into his hands - it went over his open hands and bounced off his abdomen and onto the ground.


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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:16 am

LondonTiger wrote:Current WinViz:

India 69%, Bangladesh 30%, Tie 1%.

Interesting to see how this changes through the day.

Fastest start by India in the competition so far I believe. Predictor has moved to:

India 89% to win.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:18 am

No name Bertie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Simply hopeless fielding...
Tamim Iqbal was running to get that ball, on somewhat slippery grass, with the ball coming from the direction of the sun - the ball never got into his hands - it bounced off his abdomen and onto the ground.

No excuse really. He should have swallowed it. Straight through his hands... eyes off the ball. This is the World Cup you know. Rohit on 38 now.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:39 am

Something about short boundaries and 500 scores.

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 11:59 am

Pal Joey wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Simply hopeless fielding...
Tamim Iqbal was running to get that ball, on somewhat slippery grass, with the ball coming from the direction of the sun - the ball never got into his hands - it bounced off his abdomen and onto the ground.

No excuse really. He should have swallowed it. Straight through his hands... eyes off the ball. This is the World Cup you know. Rohit on 38 now.

Totally with Joey on this. Dreadful fielding which would not have been out of place in one of my Sunday games back in the day. The dagger looks of Tamim's team mates - and not just the bowler - told the story as it was.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 12:22 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Current WinViz:

India 69%, Bangladesh 30%, Tie 1%.

Interesting to see how this changes through the day.

Fastest start by India in the competition so far I believe. Predictor has moved to:

India 89% to win.

Interesting stat flashed up earlier that, on average, India are the slowest scoring team at this World Cup in the opening ten overs, with a RR of just over 4.

Of course, they'll have boosted that today!

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Post by guildfordbat on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 12:23 pm

India 164/0 off 26.

Still going to fall short of Duty's holy grail of 500 but 400 could be on the cards.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 12:27 pm

guildfordbat wrote:India 164/0 off 26.

Still going to fall short of Duty's holy grail of 500 but 400 could be on the cards.
At 170/0 PredictViz has Low 332, Mid 365, High 398

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 12:34 pm

Yet again at this World Cup, a batsman makes 100 and gets out very shortly after.

Let's see if Bangladesh can take a couple more quick wickets and make the game interesting.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 1:11 pm

It's been a very different approach from India today, much more aggressive from the off.
I do suspect this, along with the team selection. Is partly driven by what happened against England. .

The feeling from all teams is that they will have to be able to make very big totals to win games.

High 300s looks very much on here, although there still questions about how fast dhoni can score and if Karthick is any good should wickets fall.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 1:37 pm

Kohli falls. Tried to hit a 6 but the midwicket boundary was a bit too far out and he got caught just inside the rope.

Pandya goes two balls later. Dhoni in for the last 10 and should be good to bat through for 20 from here.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 1:42 pm

robbo277 wrote:Kohli falls. Tried to hit a 6 but the midwicket boundary was a bit too far out and he got caught just inside the rope.

ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 3 - Page 19 1347041234

Please tell me it was on the short side

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 1:48 pm

Pant out as well...great fightback here. Looks like Bangladesh will limit them to a chaseable score.


Just dont know where Sakhib is supposed to bowl on this pitch with a short boundary  Whistle (10 overs for 41, 1 for 9 off his last 3)

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:17 pm

Bangladesh owning the death. Keeping them sub 350 looked impossible 20 overs back. 
Comedy ending with a run out off a wide, then straight bowled. 

3 wickets, 3 runs off the last 7 balls.

314 / 9 ...hows cricviz now?  Bangaldesh have a chance, India will have to work and wont be in good spirits.


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Post by KP_fan on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:19 pm

The pitch is flat but slow.....continuing from where it was in last 12 over of Indian inning vs Eng ( although heavy roiling might have settled it for 10 odd overs)

there is no assistance for either seamers or spinners and not easy to beat the batsman to get wicket.....but not easy to hit either.
You need a lot of power cross batted hitting to clear the boundary or play behind square using the pace of ball.

It might appear India left a few runs on the table.....but it's more than a par score already for this pitch.

BD have a good batting...they will go for it and will be in the game but should fall comfortably short.
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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

Was that a 7 ball over? Didn't see any wides or extras in that final over. Maybe the graphics were incorrect? Cricinfo also had two 49.6 deliveries in their Commentary. Maybe I'm just going mad...
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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

180/0 after 29.1 overs - to only make 314 from that position is highly disappointing from India, and a huge credit to Bangladesh and their tenacity.  Also testament to the weakness of India's batting depth - go five down and they have to put the handbrake on.

It should still be enough, comfortably, but Bangladesh aren't out of complete contention, which would have happened had India made 340+.


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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Was that a 7 ball over? Didn't see any wides or extras in that final over. Maybe the graphics were incorrect? Cricinfo also had two 49.6 deliveries in their Commentary. Maybe I'm just going mad...
 Penultimate wicket was run out off a wide

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:23 pm

Mustafizur finishing with a 5-59, really came back nicely to curtail that innings after a great start for India.

314-9. Bangladesh have the highest successful chase of the World Cup (322-3 off 41 or something mad), but the India bowling attack is a bit better than the West Indies one. India themselves got 306-5 from 50 chasing on this pitch though, and that included Dhoni's go-slow last 5 overs. Shakib will likely have a big part to play if Bangladesh are going to get near this, but 315 isn't beyond the realms of possibility, even if India are favourites from here.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:23 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Was that a 7 ball over? Didn't see any wides or extras in that final over. Maybe the graphics were incorrect? Cricinfo also had two 49.6 deliveries in their Commentary. Maybe I'm just going mad...
 Penultimate wicket was run out off a wide

Yes, sorry. Just saw that too. Smile
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:23 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
314 / 9 ...hows cricviz now?  Bangaldesh have a chance, India will have to work and wont be in good spirits.

It has India at 80%

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:23 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Was that a 7 ball over? Didn't see any wides or extras in that final over. Maybe the graphics were incorrect? Cricinfo also had two 49.6 deliveries in their Commentary. Maybe I'm just going mad...

Last ball was a wide, there was a run out on it. Rebowled one took a wicket too...so ended up with India being worse off for the extra ball.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:25 pm

Yes, think I'll take a quick nap and get up at around 04:30 for the Women's FIFA Semi Final. Hope it's a cracker.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:25 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
314 / 9 ...hows cricviz now?  Bangaldesh have a chance, India will have to work and wont be in good spirits.

It has India at 80%


Really? id have it close than that. India have to be favourites but Bangladesh will have their tails up after that ending. They look far more motivated.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:26 pm

Pal Joey wrote:Yes, think I'll take a quick nap and get up at around 04:30 for the Women's FIFA Semi Final. Hope it's a cracker.


Not gonna watch the Ashes then? Aus are off the a flyer on that

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:27 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:India 164/0 off 26.

Still going to fall short of Duty's holy grail of 500 but 400 could be on the cards.
At 170/0 PredictViz has Low 332, Mid 365, High 398

I guess this is using some kind of normal distribution? So 25% of the time they could have expected to make 332? Some turnaround for Bangladesh then to keep them down.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:29 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
314 / 9 ...hows cricviz now?  Bangaldesh have a chance, India will have to work and wont be in good spirits.

It has India at 80%


Really? id have it close than that. India have to be favourites but Bangladesh will have their tails up after that ending. They look far more motivated.

India were at 69% before a ball was bowled, and at one point were over 90%. The 80% reflects that they feel it was an overpar score by India, but also that Bangladesh pulled it back from a hopeless position. The percentages will shift markedly if Bangladesh get a decent start.


Edit:

WinForecaster as used by CricInfo giving Bangladesh a 34% chance.


Last edited by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:31 pm

robbo277 wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:India 164/0 off 26.

Still going to fall short of Duty's holy grail of 500 but 400 could be on the cards.
At 170/0 PredictViz has Low 332, Mid 365, High 398

I guess this is using some kind of normal distribution? So 25% of the time they could have expected to make 332? Some turnaround for Bangladesh then to keep them down.

The app does not have a full description of what they do but does seem to suggest that it is using quartiles.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:34 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Yes, think I'll take a quick nap and get up at around 04:30 for the Women's FIFA Semi Final. Hope it's a cracker.


Not gonna watch the Ashes then? Aus are off the a flyer on that

Elyse Perry performing much better in Leicester this year than her husband managed.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 2:42 pm

It shows the range of scores that each team can expect from the current match position. The high and low values are quartiles, so you can expect 25% of scores to be above the high value and 25% below the low score.

From: http://cricviz.com/predictviz/

Yeah it is quartiles. I got my %s round the wrong way, 75% of the time they should have got more than 332, 25% of the time they should get less.

If you do model it as a normal distribution based on that mean and those quartiles, then the chance of India finishing below 315 were 15%, from where they were on that projection.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 3:40 pm

Kohli mouthing off again. A low-grade attitude from an otherwise fantastic player. Rolling Eyes

Ponting in his prime has nothing on this guy.

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Post by jimbohammers on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 3:44 pm

Kohli is really unlikeable isn't he

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 3:48 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Kohli is really unlikeable isn't he

He could do with growing up.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 3:58 pm

Aha the spirit of Botham lives on. Shocking ball but wicket taken.

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 4:00 pm

Kohli doing his damnedest to get suspended for India's semi-final game.

If Bangladesh are to get anywhere near to India, it has to be this partnership doing the bulk of the work.

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 4:07 pm

Take away his swimming pool privileges.

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Post by Pal Joey on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 4:31 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Yes, think I'll take a quick nap and get up at around 04:30 for the Women's FIFA Semi Final. Hope it's a cracker.


Not gonna watch the Ashes then? Aus are off the a flyer on that

Unfortunately it's not being televised here (as far as I can see there's a few channels showing Wimbledon... and no Women's Ashes) but I'm following it and Australia A on cricinfo.

Edit: Actually just found it - they are showing it on 9 Gem... and another wicket falls.
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