Best team on the planet

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 23 Jun 2019, 10:12 pm

Results in from a recent poll show the best XV in the world, according to rugby fans!

Thousands of supporters have also used our poll to pick their best World XV side.

England prop Mako Vunipola, who was selected 11,369 times, is the player that was selected in more of the fans’ teams than any other


https://www.ruck.co.uk/best-xv-in-the-world-according-to-poll-of-thousands-of-rugby-fans/

15 Stuart Hogg Sco
14 Reiko Ioane NZ
13 Jonathan Davies Wal
12 Sonny Bill Williams NZ
11 Jonny May Eng
10 Beauden Barrett NZ
9 Faf de Klerk SA
1 Mako Vunipola Eng
2 Jamie George Eng
3 Tadhg Furlong Ire
4 Maro Itoje Eng
5 AWJ Wal
6 Peter O’Mahony Ire
7 David Pocock Aus
8 Billy Vunipola Eng

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 1:47 am

Gosh, How old is this list?

None of those SH based players would make a super rugby XV let alone a world XV at the moment.

Reiko might, and he aint played for a while.

Pocock hasnt played for weeks, and hasnt played well anyway. Has been at 8 last five years soooo?

Barretts flat by his standards at the mo, and SBW? Whaaaaat? On what basis did he get votes? Sympathy?

Matera would be a bet for 6, best in the SH at the mo.

A L Brown probably the best 13 here. Saveas playing better than any 7 at the moment.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 3:47 am

Interesting though. Not a single Crusader.

A selection down our way also had a team from the weekend with not a single Crusader from the pack, yet they dominated up front more than any other side in the quarters did over their opponent, and are hot faves for the title.

Certainly a team approach where no one (literally) stands out.

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 8:32 am

With these lists the players suggested are generally on reputation not on form.

There are a number of oddities. But then if you consider that team on form over the last two or three years maybe it’s not too inaccurate?

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 9:20 am

It is also a very GB&I centred list, to be expected as it was a UK website. Other than regional bias these kind of votes do tend to look at the longer picture ignoring short term form. Class is permanent etc.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 9:48 am

5 English, 2 Welsh, 2 Irish, 3 Kiwis, a Saffer, an Aussie and a token Scot.

Sounds like a British and Irish Lions side under Gatland Wink

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:31 pm

Cyril wrote:5 English, 2 Welsh, 2 Irish, 3 Kiwis, a Saffer, an Aussie and a token Scot.

Sounds like a British and Irish Lions side under Gatland Wink

Or a typical NH club side Whistle

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 1:57 pm

Even if it’s a year old, how on earth is POM in the team?

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 2:07 pm

Wheres Phil Vickery?

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 2:23 pm

Good team two years ago!
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Post by Rinsure on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 2:43 pm

So, criticism is easy, but who would make a current, on form World XV?

I think the listed front row would, Faf and Johnny May... other than that?

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Post by Tramptastic on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 4:33 pm

I'd still pick Hogg at 15 or maybe put Willie le roux in there

Cheslin Kolbe in for May or Ioane

I'd swap out Pocock for Savea or Watson BUT Pocock is arguably the best 7 when he's not injured (as much as he wears 8 for australia, thats only when he plays in tandem with hooper)

Would also swap out O'Mahoney for Matera, he's an absolute psycho of a blindside

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 5:38 pm

Jamie George and OMahoney, nah dont think so.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 5:57 pm

Would certainly have Liam Williams above Hogg as it stands. Williams was already a cracking player but has improved even more since he moved to Sarries. Good to see May get some recognition. Has certainly been in the top two wingers in the world over the last couple of years.

I wonder if any Folau votes have been expunged along with his GoFundMe account?

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 6:04 pm

It’s a difficult one..! Who are the best in each position going into the RWC?

With a mix of players based on reputation and on form I might suggest

1. Mako
2. Marx
3. Furlong
4. Retalick
5. AWJ
6. Matera
7. Tipuric
8. Read
9. Perenara (Tough one maybe Klerk or Murray?)
10. Mo’unga
11. Kolbe
12. Farrell
13. Goodhue
14. Moroni
15. Williams

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Post by bluestonevedder on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 10:29 am

maestegmafia wrote:It’s a difficult one..! Who are the best in each position going into the RWC?

With a mix of players based on reputation and on form I might suggest

1. Mako
2. Marx
3. Furlong
4. Retalick
5. AWJ
6. Matera
7. Tipuric
8. Read
9. Perenara (Tough one maybe Klerk or Murray?)
10. Mo’unga
11. Kolbe
12. Farrell
13. Goodhue
14. Moroni
15. Williams

Good looking team.

Though I'd swap Perenara for Klerk and Tipuric for Ardie Savea. I'd be tempted by Moody for Mako if he was fit too. He's great in the loose but is a stronger scrummager in my opinion.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 11:06 am

Yes there are some very close calls out there. Some superb choices in every position. I think Tips is just such a great allrounder, defence, attack, ball winning.

So many players injured, returning or out of form who could come good by the RWC.


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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 11:18 am

Cyril wrote:Would certainly have Liam Williams above Hogg as it stands. Williams was already a cracking player but has improved even more since he moved to Sarries. Good to see May get some recognition. Has certainly been in the top two wingers in the world over the last couple of years.

I wonder if any Folau votes have been expunged along with his GoFundMe account?

I think Williams is a really good player but for the big games at sarries he gets shunted to the wing in place of Alex Goode

Surely this means Alex Goode is a better fullback?

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Post by bluestonevedder on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 11:56 am

Tramptastic wrote:
Cyril wrote:Would certainly have Liam Williams above Hogg as it stands. Williams was already a cracking player but has improved even more since he moved to Sarries. Good to see May get some recognition. Has certainly been in the top two wingers in the world over the last couple of years.

I wonder if any Folau votes have been expunged along with his GoFundMe account?

I think Williams is a really good player but for the big games at sarries he gets shunted to the wing in place of Alex Goode

Surely this means Alex Goode is a better fullback?

Or that Alex Goode is less adaptable? I know he covers 10 too, but he won't oust Faz on gameday if he's available. I'd take Williams at FB rather than Goode any day of the week. I think it is a case of trying to shoe-horn in your best players, and to do that, Williams shifts out to the wing with Goode slotting into FB.

Williams was imperious during the 6N.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 12:33 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
Cyril wrote:Would certainly have Liam Williams above Hogg as it stands. Williams was already a cracking player but has improved even more since he moved to Sarries. Good to see May get some recognition. Has certainly been in the top two wingers in the world over the last couple of years.

I wonder if any Folau votes have been expunged along with his GoFundMe account?

I think Williams is a really good player but for the big games at sarries he gets shunted to the wing in place of Alex Goode

Surely this means Alex Goode is a better fullback?

Or that Alex Goode is less adaptable? I know he covers 10 too, but he won't oust Faz on gameday if he's available. I'd take Williams at FB rather than Goode any day of the week. I think it is a case of trying to shoe-horn in your best players, and to do that, Williams shifts out to the wing with Goode slotting into FB.

Williams was imperious during the 6N.

I think most Welsh fans rate Williams as our best Fullback but are fine with him being moved to wing to accommodate Halfpenny who isn’t too shabby either, but is also probably the best goal kicker in the game.

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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 1:20 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
bluestonevedder wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
Cyril wrote:Would certainly have Liam Williams above Hogg as it stands. Williams was already a cracking player but has improved even more since he moved to Sarries. Good to see May get some recognition. Has certainly been in the top two wingers in the world over the last couple of years.

I wonder if any Folau votes have been expunged along with his GoFundMe account?

I think Williams is a really good player but for the big games at sarries he gets shunted to the wing in place of Alex Goode

Surely this means Alex Goode is a better fullback?

Or that Alex Goode is less adaptable? I know he covers 10 too, but he won't oust Faz on gameday if he's available. I'd take Williams at FB rather than Goode any day of the week. I think it is a case of trying to shoe-horn in your best players, and to do that, Williams shifts out to the wing with Goode slotting into FB.

Williams was imperious during the 6N.

I think most Welsh fans rate Williams as our best Fullback but are fine with him being moved to wing to accommodate Halfpenny who isn’t too shabby either, but is also probably the best goal kicker in the game.

I think Williams is a quality player and he stepped up on the lions tour once Hogg was sent home

I'd still rate Hogg though, his ability to create something out of nothing and his distribution (which is quite underated) is a step up from Williams. Given an ideal situation I'd have both, Hogg at 15 and Williams on one of the wings

I didnt used to rate Goode, but he doesn't make mistakes and after watching him more this season his class is obvious. Plus he did a full weekend as a full kit w*nker and thats always worthy of respect, regardless of actually rugby skill

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

Most Welsh supporters I see on social media etc want Williams at 15 and don’t want Halfpenny selected, as they are content with Biggar and Anscombe’s kicking.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 4:29 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:It’s a difficult one..! Who are the best in each position going into the RWC?

With a mix of players based on reputation and on form I might suggest

1. Mako
2. Marx
3. Furlong
4. Retalick
5. AWJ
6. Matera
7. Tipuric
8. Read
9. Perenara (Tough one maybe Klerk or Murray?)
10. Mo’unga
11. Kolbe
12. Farrell
13. Goodhue
14. Moroni
15. Williams

Good looking team.

Though I'd swap Perenara for Klerk and Tipuric for Ardie Savea. I'd be tempted by Moody for Mako if he was fit too. He's great in the loose but is a stronger scrummager in my opinion.

Moody has timed his run back well and was superb in last weeks SR quarter. Will be the best LH at the World Cup imo.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 4:32 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Most Welsh supporters I see on social media etc want Williams at 15 and don’t want Halfpenny selected, as they are content with Biggar and Anscombe’s kicking.

That’s been a gimme for me for about six years. Clearly a more talented player. Halfpenny sat on his laurels far too long and never challenged himself to the fullest. Williams always tests what’s possible in this game. Absolute no brainer for me.

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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 4:46 pm

Taylorman wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Most Welsh supporters I see on social media etc want Williams at 15 and don’t want Halfpenny selected, as they are content with Biggar and Anscombe’s kicking.

That’s been a gimme for me for about six years. Clearly a more talented player. Halfpenny sat on his laurels far too long and never challenged himself to the fullest. Williams always tests what’s possible in this game. Absolute no brainer for me.

I dunno if i agree with that, Halfpenny is regarded as a hard working grafter who throws his body in the line - hardly someone who rests on his laurels

What i suspect has happened is he Welsh gameplan hasn't often involved using the fullback as a running counter attacker, rather he's been picked as a defensive player and thats about it

Probably just a case of his attacking play hasn't been required

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 5:05 pm

Yep that’s what I meant. He used to sit back for Wales and Lions and play to that you’re not required in attack tune. Saw far too many matches when he just stayed out of it. A side like Wales simply can’t afford to have talent wasted like that. Mines a SH view and we pick our fullbacks first and foremost to make a difference in space. Cullen, Dagg, Ben Smith all full out attackers with huge work rates on attack. Halfpennys sit on the fence style of offence will never be comparable as a modern fullback in that way and it’s a cop out to say he’s required for other things.
Williams flys in direct opposition to the halfpenny example and will be why he’s liked. Lions tour showed glimpses of what can happen when you take that approach, the best move of the tour sparked from nothing by Williams in his own 22. Gotta push the limits in this game, work rate alone is not enough. Halfpenny could have done far more on attack throughout his career. Far more.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 5:14 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yep that’s what I meant. He used to sit back for Wales and Lions and play to that you’re not required in attack tune. Saw far too many matches when he just stayed out of it. A side like Wales simply can’t afford to have talent wasted like that. Mines a SH view and we pick our fullbacks first and foremost to make a difference in space. Cullen, Dagg, Ben Smith all full out attackers with huge work rates on attack. Halfpennys sit on the fence style of offence will never be comparable as a modern fullback in that way and it’s a cop out to say he’s required for other things.
Williams flys in direct opposition to the halfpenny example and will be why he’s liked. Lions tour showed glimpses of what can happen when you take that approach, the best move of the tour sparked from nothing by Williams in his own 22. Gotta push the limits in this game, work rate alone is not enough. Halfpenny could have done far more on attack throughout his career. Far more.

1/2p went from being a nuggety pain in the arse winger (a bit like Nowell) to a superb marksman and committed defender at 15 - with limited attacking impact.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 7:27 pm

Yes exactly, superb on defence, had a run of a lot of tests of never missing a tackle, and a handy short range goalkicker.

could also time his runs into the backline to perfection so its almost criminal that he was asked, and worse that he listened, to hang back more. Recall a non test in oz with Lions and he was coming through the line all night.

When your side is sitting at a competitive 5-8 in the world rankings you cant afford not to maximise your player potential and that for me remains part of Halfpennys legacy, simply didnt do enough on attack, and theres no excuse for that.

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Post by The Oracle on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 9:14 pm

I don't agree fully with the notion that game plan was/is the reason for Halfpenny’s lack of attacking for Wales. The times he’s been injured and Liam Williams has come in we’ve seen Liam run it from deep and play what’s in front of him. Gatland is a stubborn old goat so I doubt he’d change the gameplan just for Williams, and definitely not within the game where Williams has come off the bench for Halfpenny. And I doubt Williams would go against orders as Gatland has punished players (dropped them) for that sort of thing in the past. So I think it’s more that Halfpenny is a more cautious player and takes less risks. Plus he’s probably not as pacy as Williams so can’t make the sort of breaks that Williams can. He’s now at the Scarlets who like to throw it about (replacing Williams, ironically), and he’s not exactly running the f*** out of it there either! Plus I’ve never seen a guy go to ground so easy when running with the ball! A gentle breeze could knock Halfpenny over!

I seem to remember also when there as a rumour that Wales’ gameplan was to kick everything in their own half and run everything in the opposition half, Gatland denying it and saying that they’re told to play what’s in front of them. Which sort of implied that Halfpenny’s reluctance to attack wasn’t due to instructions.

He’s been a great servant to Wales over the years and has almost singlehandley won us a number of games but attacking at test level just isn’t one of his top strengths, IMO.
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Post by Taylorman on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 9:46 pm

Yeah thats fair and some of the reason for it now is he's getting on a bit but there were times a few years ago where I recall constantly asking where the **** is Halfpenny ion all this, and sure enough, he's wondering around at the back somewhere. Doesnt matter if its not the gameplan, or the individual. The modern day role 'demands it' and whats worse is he had the skills and enough pace at the time.

Had he been NZ's fullback around 2010 onwards he'd have been severely reprimanded for not taking more opportunities by not only the coach, the fans, press et all, in a way that it would never have been allowed to even get that far. We'd pick someone else. Its criminal not to use the space a fullback is able to expose in todays game.

Now that may be 'our way' but any other way is simply wrong. 15 enjoys the luxury of time and space that NO other player on the field does.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 11:39 pm

I think that’s a pretty fair assessment Taylor. Though as a nation that have been through a lack of depth of decent players for a few decades or more maybe our national instinct in selection was more conservative and that kept certain players in the squad when they should have been dropped.

Wales are still a very long way from having the pool of talent that we had in the seventies but we are definitely improving year on year to increase the the strength available


Last edited by maestegmafia on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 6:25 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 1:39 am

In Williams and halfpenny you have two very good fullbacks. It’s just the use of them that wasn’t maximised. I liked watching halfpenny play as he had that X factor in terms of presence on the field. That inevitably led to higher expectations on the ball. And so many times I’d see a play which if Halfpenny had been up things would have had much more sting. He’s missed so many moments in that respect. Some players have that ability to grab the match by the scruff of the neck and take it from the opposition, regardless of anything else. Halfpenny was one, and should have been a great one, Williams is definitely another.
Players are there, sometimes the freedom to explore what’s possible isn’t. And that’s half the reason our sides win. They’re not just encouraged, it’s insisted that they have a go at any given moment. The key is getting that right, sometimes it can go awfully wrong. But the alternative of not going for it is for us, worse.

Looking at the 6N, I think of all the sides Wales tried their hand the most and thats part of why they won. Ireland have gone to a narrower gameplan which is effective when it starves sides of the ball but gets them into trouble when they get behind. They dont have a plan B that allows them to become more expansive quickly. Eggs in one basket so to say. England mixed between very good and very poor allowing Wales to come through simply due to being more consistent, and more flexible in their gameplan for far more minutes during the series.


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Post by Taylorman on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 4:02 am

Tend to agree with Stuffs AB side, down to the locks look dead cert, Fifita and Ioane could give way to Frizzell, perhaps Luke Whitelock as a outsider. I'd prefer Nonu or Laumape to SBW as the crash man, David Havili, George Bridge could give way to Ennor and or Reece- all 4 being crusaders.

So it looks accurate to within no more than 6 out.

Hookers: Codie Taylor, Dane Coles, Nathan Harris
Props: Joe Moody, Karl Tu'inukuafe, Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Sam Whitelock, Brodie Retallick, Scott Barrett
Loose forwards: Kieran Read (c), Sam Cane, Ardie Savea, Liam Squire, Vaea Fifita, Akira Ioane
Halfbacks: Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Brad Weber
No 10s/15: Beauden Barrett, Richie Mo'unga, Jordie Barrett
Midfielders: Sonny Bill Williams, Ryan Crotty, Anton Lienert-Brown, Jack Goodhue
Outside backs: David Havili, Ben Smith, Rieko Ioane, George Bridge

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 10:59 am

Taylorman wrote:In Williams and halfpenny you have two very good fullbacks. It’s just the use of them that wasn’t maximised. I liked watching halfpenny play as he had that X factor in terms of presence on the field. That inevitably led to higher expectations on the ball. And so many times I’d see a play which if Halfpenny had been up things would have had much more sting. He’s missed so many moments in that respect. Some players have that ability to grab the match by the scruff of the neck and take it from the opposition, regardless of anything else. Halfpenny was one, and should have been a great one, Williams is definitely another.
Players are there, sometimes the freedom to explore what’s possible isn’t. And that’s half the reason our sides win. They’re not just encouraged, it’s insisted that they have a go at any given moment. The key is getting that right, sometimes it can go awfully wrong. But the alternative of not going for it is for us, worse.

I think you are right and I don’t think Halfpenny was encouraged enough to “pick the game by the scruff of the neck”, other than with his boot. To the extent that most welsh or Scarlets fans doubt whether he has the ability to be that player. Fast, great defender, scores tries but not in the creative roll Williams plays.


Taylorman wrote:Looking at the 6N, I think of all the sides Wales tried their hand the most and thats part of why they won. Ireland have gone to a narrower gameplan which is effective when it starves sides of the ball but gets them into trouble when they get behind. They dont have a plan B that allows them to become more expansive quickly. Eggs in one basket so to say. England mixed between very good and very poor allowing Wales to come through simply due to being more consistent, and more flexible in their gameplan for far more minutes during the series.

Consistency is form. If you can keep consistency hi, you don’t often lose games. Look at any team that won a RWC and the repeatability of their performance targets in every game is the main reason things go right.

Wales have a very good squad at the moment. But I think Wales really need a number of players who have potential to be great to step up and take chances. George North, Gareth Anscombe, Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies, Ken Owens, Adam Beard all players who have the ability but I believe can go up another level. I hope they do, we might stand a good chance if they do.

Hence why there are as many welsh names in my best team on the planet at the moment. Too many first choices need to step it up.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 11:20 am

Well form suggests they have a good chance of winning the RWC. I wouldn't be shocked anyway.

The one caveat obviously being their record v SANZAR sides.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 11:37 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Well form suggests they have a good chance of winning the RWC. I wouldn't be shocked anyway.

The one caveat obviously being their record v SANZAR sides.

I’m not sure that the past can have an actual effect on your chance of performing in the future...? Recent past maybe a little. But recent form is good, over 12 months unbeaten home or away, recent GS and the only team we haven’t beaten in the top ten of rugby is the ABs.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 11:53 am

I disagree, you don't think Wales' record v Australia and NZ plays on their minds when they face them? Chances are they will have to face one or both of them to win the RWC.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 12:05 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:I disagree, you don't think Wales' record v Australia and NZ plays on their minds when they face them? Chances are they will have to face one or both of them to win the RWC.

I really don’t think it has any effect on any team ever. It’s the type of crap the papers print on the morning of a big match.

If it was actually an important aspect Ireland would never have beaten the all blacks and wales never beaten SA.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 12:17 pm

Fair enough but it seems quite likely to me that Wales' long run of losses was in part down to some sort of mental hurdle that came from a poor record v Oz.

I also think that's probably why Ireland lost to NZ in the last minute in 2013, the weight of history proved too much in the last few minutes. Knowing that you would be part of the first team to ever beat the ABs would make anyone nervous.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 10 Jul 2019, 11:13 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Fair enough but it seems quite likely to me that Wales' long run of losses was in part down to some sort of mental hurdle that came from a poor record v Oz.

I also think that's probably why Ireland lost to NZ in the last minute in 2013, the weight of history proved too much in the last few minutes. Knowing that you would be part of the first team to ever beat the ABs would make anyone nervous.

ireland lost because Dan Carter got a second chance at goal. Wales lost to Australia for aa number of different reasons, missed kicks, missed tries mostly missed tackles.

Considering how much mental prep goes in to modern sport I would be amazed if any sportspersons psyche was as fragile as you allude.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 12:23 am

maestegmafia wrote:

ireland lost because Dan Carter got a second chance at goal.

Nah don't go with that (Cruden I assume). Ireland lost because the AB's were able to put together one of the best test team tries under pressure together from 60 meters out, multiple (12) phases, perfect handling passing and maintaining go forward momentum throughout to even have a chance to win the match.

That the Irish decided on an early charge down is not the reason 'the Irish lost', and even if it was, don't charge early.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 1:13 am

Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:

ireland lost because Dan Carter got a second chance at goal.

Nah don't go with that (Cruden I assume). Ireland lost because the AB's were able to put together one of the best test team tries under pressure together from 60 meters out, multiple (12) phases, perfect handling passing and maintaining go forward momentum throughout to even have a chance to win the match.

That the Irish decided on an early charge down is not the reason 'the Irish lost', and even if it was, don't charge early.

Yes that too, but certainly not some hoodoo unbeatable that Ireland could not over come.

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Post by Pie on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:42 pm

SBW, George. Itoje. What a joke

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:49 pm

Creevy is the best hooker in the world IMO.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 6:52 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Creevy is the best hooker in the world IMO.

I have seen him fold in big games too often. Smaller games too - being as he has never played well against England.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:42 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:

ireland lost because Dan Carter got a second chance at goal.

Nah don't go with that (Cruden I assume). Ireland lost because the AB's were able to put together one of the best test team tries under pressure together from 60 meters out, multiple (12) phases, perfect handling passing and maintaining go forward momentum throughout to even have a chance to win the match.

That the Irish decided on an early charge down is not the reason 'the Irish lost', and even if it was, don't charge early.

Yes that too, but certainly not some hoodoo unbeatable that Ireland could not over come.

Yes First time Id resigned to losing to Ireland but Sexton not nailing an easy penalty a few minutes earlier will have lead to the faint hope that the ABs had a chance. Nail that and theyd have had to score twice, wasnt gonna happen. Chicago was more comprehensive but Im sure the first win would have been preferred at home, in front of fans...some who have obviously waited a while to see it.

Was a great first twenty minutes from Ireland too.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 8:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Creevy is the best hooker in the world IMO.

I have seen him fold in big games too often. Smaller games too - being as he has never played well against England.

Our way Marx is probably considered best but he too can have shockers with throwing in.

Marx, Coles, Creevy and Taylor are ahead of the rest in the SH, very happy with both Coles and Taylors form for their World cup tag matches.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 10:01 pm

Aye Marx had a shocker against us in the Autumn.

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Post by bsando on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 10:51 am

So subjective what with players form going up and down, but I'd select something like this for an off the cuff world XV

Mako Vuniploa
Codie Taylor
Charlie Faumuina
Brodie Retalick
Leone Nakarawa
Vaea Fifita
Siya Kolisi
Kieran Read (Captain)
Antoine Dupont
Beauden Barrett
Rieko Ioane
Andre Esterhuizen
Jack Goodhue
Waisake Naholo
Stuart Hogg

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 10:57 am

Taylorman wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Creevy is the best hooker in the world IMO.

I have seen him fold in big games too often. Smaller games too - being as he has never played well against England.

Our way Marx is probably considered best but he too can have shockers with throwing in.

Marx, Coles, Creevy and Taylor are ahead of the rest in the SH, very happy with both Coles and Taylors form for their World cup tag matches.


Is Marx really more than just a big jock? Reminds me of Spies, specimen of an athlete but not always the most effective.

I wouldn't swap Rory Best for anyone anyway, doesn't bother me he isn't rated outside of Ireland his influence on the team is epic.

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