Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:11 pm

The footballing world was once crying out for the introduction of VAR. Now that it is starting to become embedded in the beautiful game, it is taking away from the spectacle of big moments - such as the Women's World Cup currently ongoing - and making a mockery out of the game we all once loved with such passion.

VAR is not working in its current guise. But you six are going to fix it for Gianni Infantino and his FIFA cronies.

The task
I want you to come up with two options for the future of VAR: one, removing VAR completely and two, improving the use of VAR.

What you include in each element of the task is entirely up to you - you have an unlimited budget, but must also maintain a dose of reality. For example, it is unrealistic to expect football associations to pay for additional referees to replace this technology when it was brought in to reduce costs, not add to them.

Teams
Due to the double firing last week, I am going to shake the teams up.

Nando, you go over to Team Unicorn. BamBam and Dolph, you go over and join Trebs on Team Sterling.

Deadline
Now, go off in your teams and come back to me by 11:59 next Monday 1 July with your team submissions. And remember: from the losing team, at least one of you will be fired.

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:12 pm

Team leader .. Dolph it should probably be you as you've not done it yet?

I'm not around from Thurs, so will only be able to be involved up until Wednesday, will post my thoughts later today/tomorrow


BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:21 pm

Yeah I'd agree with that. Me and Bam both led first week and from the looks of things both of us ended up effectively doing the work second week!

Couple of ideas off the top of my head to get the ball rolling:

Improving VAR
Tennis style challenge system - managers/captains?
Screens must be in all stadiums
'Clear and obvious' errors or all decisions?

Getting rid of VAR
Better referee training?
More serious diving/simulation penalties as a deterrent


Other ideas
I've always wondered if it's possible for all players to wear a chip or something in their shirt to determine offside, is this feasible?
Referee media interviews/ref association rep speaks once a week?
Improving the rules in general to help consistency. e.g. CL handballs.
Mic referees like rugby? There was a trial in a recent Australian game which seemed to go well.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:21 pm

We're all on messenger, could communicate over that for ease?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 12:54 pm

This one isn't really an idea stealer, so not worried.

I fly home on July 3rd, about your 8am, so anything I do for that is priority. 

However, no problem taking this on. Do we aim for what is right (obviously VAR) or playing to Azzy?

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 24 Jun 2019, 1:19 pm

I generally believe there should be a margin of error, like an LBW appeal in cricket, where an offside by tiny amounts should stay with the on field decision, like the "umpire's call" in cricket. 

There clearly needs to be a PR effort. There clearly needs to be an education effort, because some people are just plain dumb when it comes to VAR. 

However, improving referees should be done whilst "improving VAR." It would appease people, show that it's not VAR taking over and improve the decision making in play. 

Clearly, England is the goal here. Championship and Premier League grounds should all have it. It should be underlined from the start that it is only used in these grounds in the FA Cup - there is no advantage to any team. 

I think there needs to be an emphasis on going to the referee quicker when it's debated. Maybe a time limit window for a decision then straight to the ref. Maybe a time limit on stoppages too - if it's that hard, then clearly it's not clear and obvious.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 12:03 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:This one isn't really an idea stealer, so not worried.

I fly home on July 3rd, about your 8am, so anything I do for that is priority. 

However, no problem taking this on. Do we aim for what is right (obviously VAR) or playing to Azzy?

Think we end up doing both within the task, but yes agree that VAR is the right option

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 12:46 pm

Improving VAR

- If its used in a competition, it must be used in all games in that competition, no exceptions
- That would mean potentially acquiring temporary screens that can be used for grounds where it isn't installed, even non league stadiums - surely the technology is available?
- I'd consider bringing in specific TMO's like they have in rugby and cricket, do we think it should be the referee's responsibility to review his own decision? Rugby / cricket use the TMO to have the final say
- Agree with microphone for the referee
- I don't know what the proposal is here, but the 1cm offsides need to be stopped, but would mean a fundamental change to the offside rule

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 1:01 pm

That would be mad in the FA Cup. Even if we discount qualifying, the costs are ludicrous for most League one and two stadiums - so I guess we argue that unlimited but unrealistic means we can justifiably argue it’s realistic.

There are realistic financial ways of doing that, whether it be to do with how money is funnelled throughout the divisions or the FA putting hand in pocket for every stadium in the leagues. But then it’s officials being available too. Cheaper for them to bring it in for the game, without screens for the fans, but with officials?

I don’t see any need for every game in a competition to have it. It’s not particularly logical, which is a big issue in this whole argument. It’s become very emotional, it’s almost getting to the entrenched views levels of Brexit

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 1:06 pm


We need to consider how much VAR costs and whether it is feasible to make all Championship and Champions League/Europa League sides can afford it. I'm thinking it's all well and good expecting Villa Park and some of the other big stadiums to have it, but what about a Burton Albion? Do they have to stay in League One? And I'm sure there'll be some small nations who are in Europe that may not have big budgets.

In rugby, you hear the thought process because referees are mic'ed up. Would that help with this because at least with the time delay, the fans know what is under consideration and stuff is going on which makes the time seen shorter. Having said that, I do think a time limit could work though.

I don't like the margin of error you mention. If someone is 1cm offside and the video referee knows it, then they have to inform the referee. I think that allowing a 'wrong' decision to stand, no matter the error, isn't acceptable.

Agree with you that there needs to be a clear policy at the start of the season. I didn't like the fact the Champions League decided halfway through that VAR would be used in the knockout rounds. For the FA Cup, could we propose that non-league sides can change the home venue for the ground if we are allowing VAR?


As a separate point, I was trying to think of strange uses of VAR/example case studies. If we can use incidents to back up our points then we'll be in a much stronger position.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 1:08 pm

Another option which I think the FA proposed is that anyone in the ground would be able to see the VAR decisions using an app. I don't agree with it myself, it would be murder especially with the 3pm kick off embargo. But it's an option that could be reviewed.

I think from FA Cup 3rd round onwards VAR being used is okay. As long as that's what is agreed from the start. Could we allow non-league sides to switch draws if they want? For example, Sutton United are drawn at home to Man United in the FA Cup. Could they choose to get the game played at Old Trafford as a sort of compromise?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 1:20 pm

No chance networks would work well enoughfor everyone to see an app.

What’s wrong with a margin for error? We must accept that VAR is for clear and obvious and that technology is not 100%. If you’re talking tiny margins, the likelihood that it’s perfect is not maximum.

Mic’ing up won’t help the issue in stadiums, which is the most talked about.

Could linos have a button they press on their flags for offsides that alerts the big screens but allows them to carry on officiating? Gives an idea that something will be checked.

Is our consensus how we improve it? I would be impressed to see alternatives that aren’t just removing it and going back to what we had, which is less correct decisions.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 2:10 pm

Also think we need to think of a way to fix the goalkeepers off the line on pens issue - we'll have endless resets next season if there is no change to the rule based on what happened in the women's game the other day

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 2:51 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:No chance networks would work well enoughfor everyone to see an app.

What’s wrong with a margin for error? We must accept that VAR is for clear and obvious and that technology is not 100%. If you’re talking tiny margins, the likelihood that it’s perfect is not maximum.

Mic’ing up won’t help the issue in stadiums, which is the most talked about.

Could linos have a button they press on their flags for offsides that alerts the big screens but allows them to carry on officiating? Gives an idea that something will be checked.

Is our consensus how we improve it? I would be impressed to see alternatives that aren’t just removing it and going back to what we had, which is less correct decisions.

Most stadiums have wifi. With 5G coming in there might be more improvements? Not sure.

As for me I'd say that goalkeepers can start behind the line, which should help. Wouldn't book them for coming off their line though.
Perhaps ban stutter run ups to equalise it?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 2:52 pm

Video assistant referees in the Premier League next season will not rule on the goalkeeper’s position at penalties with those decisions being left to the judgment of on-field officials, it can be revealed.

VARs will be used in England’s top flight for the first time from August but, in presentations to clubs, managers and players, referees chiefs have said that the video officials will not be involved in decisions on the goalkeeper’s position at spot-kicks.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 2:53 pm

How many stadiums have you been to with WiFi for all fans? I go to one of the newest in England and it’s a dead zone for signal

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 3:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48534031
Yeah, I'm not sure it's realistic to have replays on an app.

Some stadiums like Anfield Old Trafford don't have screens (though OT have installed them for things like the Olympics) and if they put them in it will reduce the attendance. I just can't see how VAR is compatible with that.

Do we force them to put them in?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 5:26 pm

Still mad they don't have screens. I am tempted to say that the emphasis is put on the clubs to do it at Premier League level because it is their match-going fans they are disadvantaging.

Could a "VAR budget" be given to sides to encourage them to cover costs of WiFi, money towards screens etc?

Time is a huge factor for people. Time limit for decision? Time limit for how long before a goal an incident can count?

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 8:42 am

Perhaps clubs are allowed to put short (2 min) highlights on social media? Currently they can't post anything, they would have to include any conclusive VAR moments for all fans to see?

Also feel that this would appease them as they'd make money from the social media revenues etc.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 8:46 am

Do you think we should start figuring out who does what, especially with you guys mentioning you won't be about later in the week?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 9:34 am

Sure, happy to do whatever just let me know

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 11:33 am

Should we also look at what rules need changing? It doesn’t suggest in the task that that is outside the realms

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 11:35 am

I’ve only just read the task again and seen we have to do something for improvements and for removing. Ahhh, the benefits of reading properly.

Which side would either of you prefer to go on? I’m a VARliever, are either of you VARleavers? (Notice the spelling difference)

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 12:02 pm

I'm not an out and out Vexeteer, but im more in favour of that than others! Happy to take on that side and do a draft today.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 12:15 pm

We’ve discussed VAR itself a lot, it would only be fair to have a discussion on alternatives, otherwise one side has ammo from all and other doesn’t.

What’s the ideas?

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 12:25 pm

To build up a case for getting rid of VAR, my arguments/structure would be something like this.

Immediate for this season:
More help referees - making some of the rules clearer, such as the handball rule
Some sort of media involvement for refs or a representative.
Increased retrospective action (can we get the same ref back in to look back at his decisions)

Trials to review for the start of the 20/21 season.
Start a trial where refs are mic'd - use selected FA Cup games
Investigate if offside can be done via a different technology.

Highlight the failings of VAR with some case studies.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 1:19 pm

Is that okay? Any other things I should add in an attempt to argue that VAR is for the birds?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 2:17 pm

Definitely think the case studies thing is a good idea for the failures of VAR

If getting rid of VAR, then there has to be an alternative solution to get offside decisions right at a very minimum. Ie is it possible to use a hawkeye type system which eliminates the video replay element but still pings the referee with the correct decision. The goal line tech has been a revelation, anything along those lines would be perfect

I can live with the referee's interpretations of handball etc, seems like its almost gone too far with the Man Utd vs PSG decision for example

Should there be something around how to deter managers, pundits and players from the over criticism of officials if a decision does go against them?

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 2:45 pm

Yeah I think there's potential for Hawkeye but it won't be introduced this season.
I'll investigate what tech is out there and propose a year long study/trials with the intention for them to be used the following season, so there's a full year to find the right solution .

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 4:03 pm

I'll have a draft of that bit by tomorrow lunchtime

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by BamBam on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 4:04 pm

I'm leaving work shortly and won't be around till next week, so will have to bow out from doing much else

BamBam

Posts : 15757
Join date : 2011-03-17
Age : 30

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 1:19 am

If there is a way of using tracking data that aligns with the vest things they wear for in-house data then that would be a great way for helping offsides.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 1:35 pm

Spoiler:


CASE STUDIES
There is a case that we should drop VAR. We would effect this immediately, with some rule changes coming in immediately, and some being more long term.

VAR was supposed to prevent arguments. This has in fact, had the opposite effect. Decisions such as . A new rule has been introduced where players can be booked for making a TV screen signal, but there is even more dissent with VAR.

See three major games with talking points

Iran vs Portugal (World Cup 2018)
There were two early incidents which went against Iran, with Cristiano Ronaldo winning a penalty and also being very fortunate not to be sent off. But late on, Cedric Suarez knocked the ball down onto his arm. The referee initially did not give a penalty following a handball. VAR appeared to initially decide that it was not worthy of a review. But following continued protests from the Iran players, the referee eventually caved in and checked the penalty with VAR. Controversially, the penalty was given, despite a similar incident involving Marcos Rojo not being given as a red card. It showed that continued pressure from the players to go to VAR does pay off, with referees feeling obliged to check decisions they initially thought correct.


Chelsea vs Norwich (FA Cup Third Round)
In a controversial game which went to a penalty shootout, Willian was tripped in the area. The referee in real time thought it was a dive and booked the Chelsea player. The video replays showed there was contact, but VAR did not get involved. The referee of the day was not informed that a review was required. This is an example of VAR not being used even in such occasions where it should be being used to overturn a decision which is clearly incorrect.


England vs Cameroon (Women's World Cup 2019)
England went 2-0 up in the first half, with controversy around the first two goals. The second in particular was initially given as offside, but was changed by VAR to allow the goal to stand. In the second half, Cameroon had a goal given but then ruled out due to a marginal offside decision. For the second time in the match, the Cameroon players looked like they would walk off the pitch. Despite spitting on a England player, a horrific last minute tackle on Steph Houghton and Nikita Parris being hit in the face, there was no red card given. Disciplinary proceedings are currently in progress, but VAR did not step in and give a red card when it should have been given, and causes chaos and anger with decisions being overturned.

The overall takeaway is that even with VAR, many decisions are still been seen as incorrect. It ruins the very essence of football as players can no longer celebrate goals, without fear of it later being ruled out for VAR later on.

For the purposes of this submission, our main focus is on the Premier League and the Champions League/Europa League.




IMMEDIATE CHANGES

Changing the Rules
We would change some of the rules to improve consistency. One example that has worked is the new handball rule in the Champions League. The change has led to more contacts being given as handball, but it has removed much of the shades of grey with consistency in the decision making. We would want to do similar things in other areas of the game. For example, with tackling, any tackle with two feet off the ground being an automatic red card, regardless of intent.


Media Involvement
During the season, we would like a representative from the PGMOL to be part of a weekly show, which looks at the major refereeing decisions from the past Premier League gameweek. There would be a positive spin on this, with correct and good decisions highlighted as well as picking up on the controversy. We currently have a big problem with a lack of young people wanting to take on refereeing and this would certainly go some way to help.

Some have suggested that referees should give post-match interviews, but we think that this is unfair on them. It puts them too much into the spotlight. Referees get reviewed internally already, and we feel that this is a good middle ground.

Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville did a show a few years ago for Sky Sports, in which they spoke to referees and looked at what went on behind the scenes. This was generally well received, with the general public having a much greater understanding of what went on and more sympathy for referees. We think that this is the sort of thing that can be built on.



Increased retrospective action
At present, retrospective action is generally conducted by a three man panel. This replaced the referee on the day looking back at their incidents. We are of the opinion that the referee of the game should be involved in the retrospective action. They know what they were thinking at the time of the decision and are best placed to review that decision.

Diving and simulation can be looked at, with Oumar Niasse being one of the few players to get a ban for diving to win a penalty. We think that there are many more examples of players who should have received bans but didn't. Red cards can be downgraded, and violent conduct bans can be given later. But the process is hamstrung by the fact that the referee must have missed the incident on the day. We want to remove this rule, and allow the referee to revisit all the incidents he sees fit.



LONG TERM CHANGES
In addition to the immediate changes, we would like to propose two further ideas, which are not yet ready for this season. We would like to have trials ongoing throughout the season with the intention of using these from the 20/21 season onwards, possibly starting with the 2020 Euros.


Hearing the referees
We would start a trial where refs are mic'd for selected FA Cup games. This follows on from a recent trial in Australia with the referee's communication made available. We would compare this to rugby, whereby referees having a mic helps with the communication of their decisions to the fans. It also helps with dissenting players and those swearing at referees.

Using a microphone means that it becomes much easier to get a clear picture of what is going on, and more importantly, punish players with clear evidence where necessary. This goes hand in hand with the media aspect previously mentioned, where fans will have much more sympathy for the referees if they can understand their point of view.


Technology
Just because VAR is not recommended, it does not mean that we are anti-technology. Goal-line technology, for example has been an absolute revelation since its introduction. There is no serious opposition its use. This is mainly due to it being a matter of fact, with no subjectivity in the decisions. In addition to continuing with goal line technology, we want to introduce technology to assist linesman with offside decisions, as these tend to be the most controversial.

Hawkeye is to be imminently introduced in the Chinese Super League for offside decisions. This system uses 16 cameras along the side of the pitch to confirm whether a player is or is not offside. There is also the possibility of players wearing chips in their shirts to determine offside decisions. While this would need a tweak in the rules to state that it is the position of the chip, rather than the furthest part of the body that can play the ball - if this system can be implemented then it would be foolproof.

These possibilities would be studied in detail over the next season, with trials where applicable and attempted the be introduced in one year.


Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 1:36 pm

The case against VAR. Let us know your thoughts.

One of you okay to do the case for VAR and how it could be improved?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 2:49 am

I’m halfway through

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 9:55 am

I do disagree with some of the comments that don't relate to the use of VAR or otherwise. I don't think any challenge with two feet off the floor should be a red card, nor do I particularly agree that diving should be so heavily punished like Niasse was. I don't really believe VAR stops celebration either, having been at a game where it was used to check a goal. We just celebrated twice!

Also, I'm unsure our pitch can be so definitive if we are arguing two sides of the coin. The "anti" VAR option is basically saying VAR is crap at every turn, where we are just meant to be showing an alternative, aren't we?

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 30 Jun 2019, 12:46 pm

VAR changes:

VAR appears to be here to stay. Cricket, Tennis, NFL: major sports that have welcomed technology into their game and seen decision making improve tenfold. 


The Premier League this year could have worked out so differently, so tragically, had the referees in this country continued their erroneous ways. We were only a few points away from Liverpool FC, the red side of Liverpool, with their Liverpudlian fans, winning the Premier League title, their first Premier League title and ending English football as we know it. 


Decisions will be highlighted in other aspects of our pitch where VAR has caused concern for the easily agitated. We are presenting two sides of a difficult argument in this pitch. But we can agree that scrutiny has doubled, trebled, since the inclusion of VAR in the English game came closer.


However, the averted tragedy would have been nowhere near as close, nowhere near as stressful, had the Premier League had VAR last season.


Take these moments, notably incorrect decisions, for example:


Wolves 1-1 Manchester City (25 August) - Willy Boly gave Wolves the lead in the 57th minute with what appeared to be a diving header - but replays showed that it had actually gone in off his hand.


Tottenham 1-2 Liverpool (15 September) - Son Heung-min was brought down in the box deep in added time as Tottenham sought an equaliser, but Michael Oliver waved away his vociferous appeals.


West Ham 1-1 Liverpool (4 February) - The linesman somehow missed a clear offside against James Milner, whose cross into the box was converted by Sadio Mane for the game's opening goal.


These are a select three very clear decisions that were missed by the officials. This was on a list of fifteen incorrect and easily solved decisions that affected the title race. Just the title race, not the other 18 teams. 


Regardless, there is a swell of public opinion, although one that is of a more vocal group rather than a sustainable or notable majority, against VAR. 


Even its supporters would welcome improvements. We would bid to continually and consistently improve VAR, never resting on laurels and always looking for what can be done to make it a more palatable experience for viewers and a more thorough one for the sport. 


Some of these changes would ally with the ideas to be enforced were we to move away from using VAR. The following from the previous part of our submission would be carried over and included here too, as good ideas for improvement in the sport are welcomed at all times. See headings:



  • Increased retrospective action
  • Changing the Rules (with the “any contact” handball issue to be immediately remedied and a focus on common sense portrayal of the handball rule)
  • Media Involvement
  • Hearing the referees



We would also be inclined to trial new technologies, such as Hawkeye-style offside.


However, this area of the project has many other areas we would like to focus on. 


Refereeing improvements


The point of VAR is to help officiating in the Premier League. We believe VAR is a great tool for that, but it would be ridiculous to rely upon it solely. Referees need help. We would aim to:



  • Introduce stricter punishments for arguing with officials. Our belief is that this will aid the game from top to bottom. Grassroots refereeing will be improved, albeit in the long term, as the influence of footballers on their audience is so strong and clear signs of punishment and the upturn in behaviour would have a trickle down impact. Further to that, we believe this would have short term and long term impact on the quality of referees. Long term would be a bigger talent pool as more people take up reffing. Short term, we feel referees would see an increased confidence as they would not be harangued, harassed and bullied in games. 
  • Intense summer refereeing training, with refs (in each top of the 4 top leagues) to visit training grounds regularly to referee training games. We think referees can up their games. If referees are to regularly visit training grounds in pre-season, ensuring that they change consistently so that no relationships are formed. This would also give them a chance to practically explain and show new rules. We also believe that fitness teams should work with referees intensely in the summer months, whilst they will also use video analysis to highlight key issues from the previous season.
  • Weekly video analysis with Premier League referees. It would give referees a huge advantage in their progress during the season if they were to have video analysis sessions each week to look back at key decisions from the round of fixtures before. This will include both positive and negative decisions, to highlight what is working well and what can be improved upon.
  • Partnerships with other leagues who use VAR to send officials to ref pre-season games. English referees can go to Germany, their referees can come here, and it would give officials a chance to share ideas and skills. 



A VAR budget for all Premier League and Championship clubs


We feel there is a need for clubs to engage with VAR to make it work the best for their fans. We also feel that the Premier League and the FA have to make this work if they want to bring in this change. A VAR budget can be enforced to ensure this happens. This money is to be funnelled from TV rights and cash reserves in the FA for the Championship. Premier League clubs will still receive all money they normally would, but a legal obligation for a part of this to be used on VAR improvements for fans. As such, any clubs without (or with poor) replay screens are choosing to do so at the expense of their fan experience. Other clubs can look into huge WiFi developments and phone signal, etc. Equally, the FA should be able to loan, with no interest charged, money to any Championship clubs that could not afford improvements necessary, even with the budget. 


Major investments into production


VAR can be sped up by improvements to the “production” - the camera work, editing, replays. TV does this at such a speed, as do other sports from cricket and even to wrestling. VAR needs to be invested in, looking at staff who do these things for TV and make sure teams around VAR are looking to achieve such a level of professionalism.


Clear and obvious errors


We propose that VAR is used with that in mind, clear and obvious errors. We are looking for support for referees, so we want to make sure the decisions where we can see why or why not something is seen as a foul, a decision is given or not etc, are not the subject of endless scrutiny. We want this to remain implemented for its initial purpose. The vocabulary has always been “clear error” - let’s make sure that’s what it is. 


Decisions and their implementation


Critics of VAR often mention the time that decisions take. Whilst we should look to remember and remind that correct decisions in sport are very important, we should also listen to such concerns and see where VAR can improve. 


Taking both this idea and the “clear error” we have spoken about, one key change is to the way offsides are reviewed. Any offside that takes more than 60 (should this be shorter?) seconds to make a decision on is not clear and obvious. At this point, the on field decision would remain in play. As such, we would bring in technology that allows assistant referees the ability to press a button on their flag to indicate an offside whilst play continues. With VAR, assistant referees are encouraged not to stop immediately and give an offside, in case it is wrong and they then miss play. This way, they can indicate their decision but continue. 


This will also allow the big screens to indicate that a VAR check will be coming into play. 


We believe this could be a big factor in helping fans. The screens can be used to show that there is something VAR is to look at. It takes out any moments where fans feel left in the dark, so would be implemented for any decision VAR looks at. 


With time being discussed, we also feel a window for decisions to be made should be brought in. 90 seconds is enough for any decision to be reviewed and then implemented. The timer will also be on the screen in the stadium. 


Further to this, we would trial, away from games, whether we should create a ruling that incidents within a certain time-frame can be referred to. This would not be done straight away, we think this should be something investigated through the season, to see how it should be done and whether it would be helpful or not. 


The PR game


We would look to bring in current pundits, all of whom are former players, to experience VAR. This would be done to help with the analysis that is produced each week, which is huge for public perception. If we can truly bring them into the process, they will be able to discuss it more intelligently on TV. Some pundits are there for their entertaining negativity, the likes of Souness and Keane are examples, and will discuss VAR this season. We cannot let this come from bias or ignorance, so if they are educated and experienced with it (to some extent) then they will understand what is happening by all officials, whether they’re on the field or implementing VAR. 


This would be televised, as part of informing the football fans too. They can see what is happening, see what these ex-professionals are learning, and we would be in no way ashamed to have this as a chance to spread a positive propaganda for VAR.


Current professionals


Similar, yet not televised, would happen throughout pre-season for managers and captains from each team. This is going to help in press conferences and also their understanding within games.


The agitation in game, especially at something they are not used to, adds to an air of negativity about VAR. Then this is seen in press conferences, with players and managers feeling in the dark about VAR and frustrated. Who picks up on this? Fans, the public, and this is a chance to cut some of that negativity. 


Both these, the ex-pros and current ones, will also give VAR a chance to work with feedback from experienced players. This is not to be taken lightly, they understand the game at an intense level. They would all get a chance to “use” VAR, from decisions made in previous seasons or from abroad, depending on what we feel would be best and produce less bias or be in their memories.


The cups


We believe that it should be used at grounds that have capability in the League Cup as a means of improving VAR technology. It must be understood that no team gains an advantage by having a stadium with VAR in a specific game because both teams can be “punished” or “rewarded” in games that have it. As such, it does not do Manchester United any particular favours in a game against a Cambridge United just because the game is at Old Trafford. 


However, the FA Cup would be slightly different. We would look to initially trial temporary VAR at grounds that will not have it. Can it be set up before an FA Cup tie? One game per round would be used in this trial, rather than a wider implementation, whilst it is continued in use at grounds that already have it. There is to be no financial burden on these sides from League One and below. This also helps us to investigate whether we should be training all referees on VAR, which is especially difficult at lower levels, and let’s us trial the system and whether we can do temporary instalments effectively. 



Thank you for your consideration, we look forward to any opportunity to discuss our proposals with you.

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 7:57 am

I agree with you that perhaps my pitch is a bit too definitive. I wasn't sure how to interpret the task, of whether it's two separate arguments. I can try do a rewrite this morning but not 100% sure if I'll have the time.

Especially agree with you on the punditslVar education issue.


Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:56 am

THE CASE AGAINST VAR
CASE STUDIES:

There is a case that we should drop VAR. We would effect this immediately, with some rule changes coming in immediately, and some being more long term.

VAR was supposed to prevent arguments. It could be debated that it has in fact, had the opposite effect. A new rule has been introduced where players can be booked for making a TV screen signal, but there is even more dissent with VAR.

See three examples of games with VAR in use which have not worked:

Iran vs Portugal (World Cup 2018)
There were two early incidents which went against Iran, with Cristiano Ronaldo winning a penalty and also being very fortunate not to be sent off. But late on, Cedric Suarez knocked the ball down onto his arm. The referee initially did not give a penalty following a handball. VAR appeared to initially decide that it was not worthy of a review. But following continued protests from the Iran players, the referee eventually caved in and checked the penalty with VAR. Controversially, the penalty was given, despite a similar incident involving Marcos Rojo not being given as a red card. It showed that continued pressure from the players to go to VAR does pay off, with referees feeling obliged to check decisions they initially thought correct.


Chelsea vs Norwich (FA Cup Third Round)
In a controversial game which went to a penalty shootout, Willian was tripped in the area. The referee in real time thought it was a dive and booked the Chelsea player. The video replays showed there was contact, but VAR did not get involved. The referee of the day was not informed that a review was required. This is an example of VAR not being used even in such occasions where it should be being used to overturn a decision which is clearly incorrect.


England vs Cameroon (Women's World Cup 2019)
England went 2-0 up in the first half, with controversy around the first two goals. The second in particular was initially given as offside, but was changed by VAR to allow the goal to stand. In the second half, Cameroon had a goal given but then ruled out due to a marginal offside decision. For the second time in the match, the Cameroon players looked like they would walk off the pitch. Despite spitting on a England player, a horrific last minute tackle on Steph Houghton and Nikita Parris being hit in the face, there was no red card given. Disciplinary proceedings are currently in progress, but VAR did not step in and give a red card when it should have been given, and causes chaos and anger with decisions being overturned.

The overall takeaway is that even with VAR, there are several examples of its use which have been seen as incorrect. There also the element of 'spoiling' celebrations when goals are scored, breaking that euphoria. VAR does have its advantages but this presents a case for an alternative, which involves improved refereeing, better communication, increased retrospective action, and other technologies.

For the purposes of this submission, our main focus on a future without VAR is on the Premier League and the Champions League/Europa League.




IMMEDIATE CHANGES:


Changing the Rules
One of the biggest problems with VAR is that the rules are not the same in football as other sports, like rugby. In rugby, the rules are much more straight and fast which means that when a decision is to be made, it is based on a strict rule. Some of the rules need to be changed to help referees with consistency. One example that has worked is the new handball rule in the Champions League. The change has led to more contacts being given as handball, but it has removed many of the shades of grey with consistency in the decision making. We would want to do similar things in other areas of the game.


Media Involvement
During the season, we would like a representative from the PGMOL to be part of a weekly show, which looks at the major refereeing decisions from the past Premier League gameweek. There would be a positive spin on this, with correct and good decisions highlighted as well as picking up on the controversy. We currently have a big problem with a lack of young people wanting to take on refereeing and this would certainly go some way to help.

Some have suggested that referees should give post-match interviews, but we think that this is unfair on them. It puts them too much into the spotlight. Referees get reviewed internally already, and we feel that this is a good middle ground.

Jamie Carragher and Gary Neville did a show a few years ago for Sky Sports, in which they spoke to referees and looked at what went on behind the scenes. This was generally well received, with the general public having a much greater understanding of what went on and more sympathy for referees. We think that this is the sort of thing that can be built on.



Increased retrospective action
At present, retrospective action is generally conducted by a three man panel. This replaced the referee on the day looking back at their incidents. We are of the opinion that the referee of the game should be involved in the retrospective action. They know what they were thinking at the time of the decision and are best placed to review that decision.

Diving and simulation can be looked at, with Oumar Niasse being one of the few players to get a ban for diving to win a penalty. We think that there are many more examples of players who should have received bans but didn't. In isolation, this may seem a harsh punishment but the problem is that not enough dives are retrospectively acted upon to ensure that there is a proper deterrent.

Red cards can be downgraded, and violent conduct bans can be given later. But the process is hamstrung by the fact that the referee must have missed the incident on the day. We want to remove this rule, and allow the referee to revisit all the incidents he sees fit.


LONG TERM CHANGES:

In addition to the immediate changes, we would like to propose two further ideas, which are not yet ready for this season. We would like to have trials ongoing throughout the season with the intention of using these from the 20/21 season onwards, possibly starting with the 2020 Euros.


Hearing the referees
We would start a trial where refs are mic'd for selected FA Cup games. This follows on from a recent trial in Australia with the referee's communication made available. We would compare this to rugby, whereby referees having a mic helps with the communication of their decisions to the fans. It also helps with dissenting players and those swearing at referees.

Using a microphone means that it becomes much easier to get a clear picture of what is going on, and more importantly, punish players with clear evidence where necessary. This goes hand in hand with the media aspect previously mentioned, where fans will have much more sympathy for the referees if they can understand their point of view.


Technology
Just because this presents a case against the use of VAR, it does not mean that it is anti-technology. Goal-line technology, for example has been an absolute revelation since its introduction. There is no serious opposition its use. This is mainly due to it being a matter of fact, with no subjectivity in the decisions. In addition to continuing with goal line technology, we want to introduce technology to assist linesman with offside decisions, as these tend to be the most controversial.

Hawkeye is to be imminently introduced in the Chinese Super League for offside decisions. This system uses 16 cameras along the side of the pitch to confirm whether a player is or is not offside. There is also the possibility of players wearing chips in their shirts to determine offside decisions. While this would need a tweak in the rules to state that it is the position of the chip, rather than the furthest part of the body that can play the ball - if this system can be implemented then it would be foolproof.

These possibilities would be studied in detail over the next season, with trials where applicable and attempted the be introduced in one year.



The other option is to retain VAR and to refine it. This is our proposal for the future.

The Case for VAR to be reformed:

[size=41]VAR appears to be here to stay. Cricket, Tennis, NFL: major sports that have welcomed technology into their game and seen decision making improve tenfold. [/size]


[size=41]The Premier League this year could have worked out so differently, so tragically, had the referees in this country continued their erroneous ways. We were only a few points away from Liverpool FC, the red side of Liverpool, with their Liverpudlian fans, winning the Premier League title, their first Premier League title and ending English football as we know it. [/size]


[size=41]Decisions will be highlighted in other aspects of our pitch where VAR has caused concern for the easily agitated. We are presenting two sides of a difficult argument in this pitch. But we can agree that scrutiny has doubled, trebled, since the inclusion of VAR in the English game came closer.[/size]


[size=41]However, the averted tragedy would have been nowhere near as close, nowhere near as stressful, had the Premier League had VAR last season.[/size]


[size=41]Take these moments, notably incorrect decisions, for example:[/size]


Wolves 1-1 Manchester City (25 August) - Willy Boly gave Wolves the lead in the 57th minute with what appeared to be a diving header - but replays showed that it had actually gone in off his hand.


Tottenham 1-2 Liverpool (15 September) - Son Heung-min was brought down in the box deep in added time as Tottenham sought an equaliser, but Michael Oliver waved away his vociferous appeals.


West Ham 1-1 Liverpool (4 February) - The linesman somehow missed a clear offside against James Milner, whose cross into the box was converted by Sadio Mane for the game's opening goal.


[size=41]These are a select three very clear decisions that were missed by the officials. This was on a list of fifteen incorrect and easily solved decisions that affected the title race. Just the title race, not the other 18 teams. [/size]


[size=41]Regardless, there is a swell of public opinion, although one that is of a more vocal group rather than a sustainable or notable majority, against VAR. [/size]


[size=41]Even its supporters would welcome improvements. We would bid to continually and consistently improve VAR, never resting on laurels and always looking for what can be done to make it a more palatable experience for viewers and a more thorough one for the sport. [/size]


[size=41]Some of these changes would ally with the ideas to be enforced were we to move away from using VAR. The following from the previous part of our submission would be carried over and included here too, as good ideas for improvement in the sport are welcomed at all times. See headings:[/size]



  • [size=39]Increased retrospective action[/size]
  • [size=39]Changing the Rules (with the “any contact” handball issue to be immediately remedied and a focus on common sense portrayal of the handball rule)[/size]
  • [size=39]Media Involvement[/size]
  • [size=39]Hearing the referees[/size]



[size=41]We would also be inclined to trial new technologies, such as Hawkeye-style offside.[/size]


[size=41]However, this area of the project has many other areas we would like to focus on. [/size]


Refereeing improvements


[size=41]The point of VAR is to help officiating in the Premier League. We believe VAR is a great tool for that, but it would be ridiculous to rely upon it solely. Referees need help. We would aim to:[/size]



  • [size=39]Introduce stricter punishments for arguing with officials. Our belief is that this will aid the game from top to bottom. Grassroots refereeing will be improved, albeit in the long term, as the influence of footballers on their audience is so strong and clear signs of punishment and the upturn in behaviour would have a trickle down impact. Further to that, we believe this would have short term and long term impact on the quality of referees. Long term would be a bigger talent pool as more people take up reffing. Short term, we feel referees would see an increased confidence as they would not be harangued, harassed and bullied in games. [/size]
  • [size=39]Intense summer refereeing training, with refs (in each top of the 4 top leagues) to visit training grounds regularly to referee training games. [size=39]We think referees can up their games. If referees are to regularly visit training grounds in pre-season, ensuring that they change consistently so that no relationships are formed. This would also give them a chance to practically explain and show new rules. We also believe that fitness teams should work with referees intensely in the summer months, whilst they will also use video analysis to highlight key issues from the previous season.[/size][/size]
  • [size=39]Weekly video analysis with Premier League referees. [size=39]It would give referees a huge advantage in their progress during the season if they were to have video analysis sessions each week to look back at key decisions from the round of fixtures before. This will include both positive and negative decisions, to highlight what is working well and what can be improved upon.[/size][/size]
  • [size=39]Partnerships with other leagues who use VAR to send officials to ref pre-season games. English referees can go to Germany, their referees can come here, and it would give officials a chance to share ideas and skills. [/size]



A VAR budget for all Premier League and Championship clubs


[size=41]We feel there is a need for clubs to engage with VAR to make it work the best for their fans. We also feel that the Premier League and the FA have to make this work if they want to bring in this change. A VAR budget can be enforced to ensure this happens. This money is to be funnelled from TV rights and cash reserves in the FA for the Championship. Premier League clubs will still receive all money they normally would, but a legal obligation for a part of this to be used on VAR improvements for fans. As such, any clubs without (or with poor) replay screens are choosing to do so at the expense of their fan experience. Other clubs can look into huge WiFi developments and phone signal, etc. Equally, the FA should be able to loan, with no interest charged, money to any Championship clubs that could not afford improvements necessary, even with the budget. [/size]


Major investments into production


[size=41]VAR can be sped up by improvements to the “production” - the camera work, editing, replays. TV does this at such a speed, as do other sports from cricket and even to wrestling. VAR needs to be invested in, looking at staff who do these things for TV and make sure teams around VAR are looking to achieve such a level of professionalism.[/size]


Clear and obvious errors


[size=41]We propose that VAR is used with that in mind, clear and obvious errors. We are looking for support for referees, so we want to make sure the decisions where we can see why or why not something is seen as a foul, a decision is given or not etc, are not the subject of endless scrutiny. We want this to remain implemented for its initial purpose. The vocabulary has always been “clear error” - let’s make sure that’s what it is. [/size]


Decisions and their implementation


[size=41]Critics of VAR often mention the time that decisions take. Whilst we should look to remember and remind that correct decisions in sport are very important, we should also listen to such concerns and see where VAR can improve. [/size]


[size=41]Taking both this idea and the “clear error” we have spoken about, one key change is to the way offsides are reviewed. [/size]Any offside that takes more than 60[size=41] (should this be shorter?) [/size]seconds to make a decision on is not clear and obvious[size=41]. At this point, the on field decision would remain in play. As such, we would bring in technology that allows assistant referees the ability to press a button on their flag to indicate an offside whilst play continues. With VAR, assistant referees are encouraged not to stop immediately and give an offside, in case it is wrong and they then miss play. This way, they can indicate their decision but continue. [/size]


[size=41]This will also allow [/size]the big screens to indicate that a VAR check will be coming into play.


[size=41]We believe this could be a big factor in helping fans. The screens can be used to show that there is something VAR is to look at. It takes out any moments where fans feel left in the dark, so would be implemented for any decision VAR looks at. [/size]


[size=41]With time being discussed, we also feel [/size]a window for decisions to be made should be brought in. 90 seconds[size=41] is enough for any decision to be reviewed and then implemented. The timer will also be on the screen in the stadium. [/size]


[size=41]Further to this, we would trial, away from games, whether we should create a ruling that incidents within a certain time-frame can be referred to. This would not be done straight away, we think this should be something investigated through the season, to see how it should be done and whether it would be helpful or not. [/size]


The PR game


[size=41]We would look to bring in current pundits, all of whom are former players, to experience VAR. This would be done to help with the analysis that is produced each week, which is huge for public perception. If we can truly bring them into the process, they will be able to discuss it more intelligently on TV. Some pundits are there for their entertaining negativity, the likes of Souness and Keane are examples, and will discuss VAR this season. We cannot let this come from bias or ignorance, so if they are educated and experienced with it (to some extent) then they will understand what is happening by all officials, whether they’re on the field or implementing VAR. [/size]


[size=41]This would be televised, as part of informing the football fans too. They can see what is happening, see what these ex-professionals are learning, and we would be in no way ashamed to have this as a chance to spread a positive propaganda for VAR.[/size]


Current professionals


[size=41]Similar, yet not televised, would happen throughout pre-season for managers and captains from each team. This is going to help in press conferences and also their understanding within games.[/size]


[size=41]The agitation in game, especially at something they are not used to, adds to an air of negativity about VAR. Then this is seen in press conferences, with players and managers feeling in the dark about VAR and frustrated. Who picks up on this? Fans, the public, and this is a chance to cut some of that negativity. [/size]


[size=41]Both these, the ex-pros and current ones, will also give VAR a chance to work with feedback from experienced players. This is not to be taken lightly, they understand the game at an intense level. They would all get a chance to “use” VAR, from decisions made in previous seasons or from abroad, depending on what we feel would be best and produce less bias or be in their memories.[/size]


The cups


[size=41]We believe that it should be used at grounds that have capability in the League Cup as a means of improving VAR technology. It must be understood that no team gains an advantage by having a stadium with VAR in a specific game because both teams can be “punished” or “rewarded” in games that have it. As such, it does not do Manchester United any particular favours in a game against a Cambridge United just because the game is at Old Trafford. [/size]


[size=41]However, the FA Cup would be slightly different. We would look to initially trial temporary VAR at grounds that will not have it. Can it be set up before an FA Cup tie? One game per round would be used in this trial, rather than a wider implementation, whilst it is continued in use at grounds that already have it. There is to be no financial burden on these sides from League One and below. This also helps us to investigate whether we should be training all referees on VAR, which is especially difficult at lower levels, and let’s us trial the system and whether we can do temporary instalments effectively. [/size]



Thank you for your consideration, we look forward to any opportunity to discuss our proposals with you.

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 10:56 am

Think this is our final submission above as I see it?

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:11 pm

Sorry, I’ve been sorting my flight issues.

All seems good. Think they’ve nicked some of our ideas too Whistle

Dolphin Ziggler
Dolphin
Dolphin

Posts : 22756
Join date : 2012-03-01
Age : 30
Location : Wollongong

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Trebs on Mon 01 Jul 2019, 1:19 pm

No worries - their submission does look quite... similar. Will be interesting to see what Azzy says.

I think we've made a good submission!

Trebs

Posts : 14630
Join date : 2011-05-16
Age : 57
Location : Manchester

Back to top Go down

Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph Empty Re: Azzrentice - Task 3 - Team Sterling - Bam, Trebs, Dolph

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum