Wales "one of the teams to beat" in the 2019 RWC

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Post by No9 on Tue 25 Jun 2019, 4:17 pm

The messiah's words ... Cant argue with that ....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/48755357


Advice to Uncle Eddie, save the RFU a bob or two and cancel now... Yahoo

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 6:29 am

Graham Henry: Wales “one of World Cup teams to beat”

I think Wales have a good chance," said Henry.

"It's going to be a lot closer than it was in 2015 when New Zealand had a distinct edge. It will be a highly competitive World Cup."

Not that profound a statement really. After 14 wins in a row and sitting comfortably on the rankings table Wales are bound to be touted highly at this stage

As Graham Henry says. It will be the closest RWC we have seen yet

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 12:30 pm

I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.
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Post by Cyril on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 2:38 pm

Good to see the title has been changed to reflect what he actually said. 606v2 libel lawyers must have been getting nervous.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 3:37 pm

They certainly are one of the favourites going into the tournament, but like always, they're flying below the radar!

This RWC has got all the makings of being one of the most competitive ever. I'd say NZ are still favourites, but they're very beatable. Some other teams like South Africa seem to be peaking at just the right time.

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Post by Yoda on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 4:04 pm

TightHEAD wrote:I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.

Excellent point, both Fiji and Tonga will test Wales and England respectively but I wouldn't put it past Fiji to cause an upset. England's group.... oh blimey a group of death.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 8:56 pm

Graham Henry is losing it.  Once a pretty good coach, now trying his hand at stand up comedy.  It's embarrassing really.

Wales one of the teams to beat?  

They're only 2nd in the World Rankings, Graham.  Like hello..... ?  Only 2nd.  That's all.
A team full of second rate Pro14 players, a pretend tag-rugby League from somewhere in Europe that isn't France or England.
They've only won 14 games on the trot.  They failed miserably to win 15 because they didn't play it yet.  Appalling stat when you lose the rose-tinted glasses.

This kinda stuff really annoys me.  Henry is just trying to stir it amongst the real teams in contention like Namibia, Uruguay, Italy and Ireland.

Henry is just a wum, and not a very good one.

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Post by The Oracle on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 9:53 pm

Technically all the teams in the tournament are ‘ones to beat’, if you have any plans to win the tournament. Which all teams probably do Whistle
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 9:59 pm

Absolutely. Sure even New Zealand would be considered to have a bit of a chance if a bit of luck goes their way.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 10:21 pm

A bit like this one perhaps?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/international/ireland-six-nations-grand-slam-rugby-world-cup-2019-favourites-a8262501.html

Similar scenario huh?

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Post by Cyril on Wed 26 Jun 2019, 10:49 pm

I’d say both Wales and Ireland are contenders, but feel the winner will come from one of the sides who have already win it. Can’t see any major shocks in the pool stages either and the top ranked sides will go onto the quarters.


Last edited by Cyril on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:03 am

Yes be interesting if theres a new winner, which can only really be either Wales or Ireland. No other side is good enough to win those three crucial knockouts, Argie would be next.

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 6:21 am

Taylorman wrote:Yes be interesting if theres a new winner, which can only really be either Wales or Ireland. No other side is good enough to win those three crucial knockouts, Argie would be next.

France could be quite a different team. There selection looks good and the squad will actually get to spend some time together.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 9:26 am

The fittest team will win it.

Wales fall into that category, but do they have the strength in depth and experience for knockout rugby?
Also a lot depends on whether the roof is open or closed!
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 9:53 am

TightHEAD wrote:I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.

The RWC is going to be held in late Sept early October. It will be 25 degrees max, probably more like 20 degrees, maybe some rain. Weather is barely going to be a factor.

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 9:55 am

The Oracle wrote:Technically all the teams in the tournament are ‘ones to beat’, if you have any plans to win the tournament. Which all teams probably do Whistle


You can loose to France and still be the champions in the yes of Taylorman and ebop

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 9:58 am

Wales are definitely one of the favorites.

On super rugby form it looks like Argentina will be contenders too.

Australia and SA may be contenders but only really based on the belief that previous RWC success might give them, they are both all over the place otherwise.

NZ of course still favorites.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 10:12 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.

The RWC is going to be held in late Sept early October. It will be 25 degrees max, probably more like 20 degrees, maybe some rain. Weather is barely going to be a factor.

Average high temperature in September for some major cities in Japan from north to south.

Sapporo, Hokkaido: 22.4 C (72.3 F)
Sendai, northern Honshu: 24.4 C (75.9 F)
Tokyo, central Honshu: 26.9 C (80.4 F)
Osaka, southern Honshu: 29.3 C (84.7 F)
Fukuoka, Kyushu: 28.3 C (82.9 F)
Naha, Okinawa: 30.4 C (86.7 F)

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 11:50 am

TightHEAD wrote:I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.

Northern-hemisphere Japan may be used to the conditions. Whistle

On the conditions though, I think England are planning a couple of warm weather camps in Treviso, and have already done some heat work last year. You'd hope Eddie would know about the conditions in Japan, and he's expecting some tough conditions out there.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:19 pm

TightHEAD wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:I agree Wales are one of the favourites, but can they handle the conditions in Japan though?
Can any of the NH teams? It will be energy sapping.

The RWC is going to be held in late Sept early October. It will be 25 degrees max, probably more like 20 degrees, maybe some rain. Weather is barely going to be a factor.

Average high temperature in September for some major cities in Japan from north to south.

Sapporo, Hokkaido: 22.4 C (72.3 F)
Sendai, northern Honshu: 24.4 C (75.9 F)
Tokyo, central Honshu: 26.9 C (80.4 F)
Osaka, southern Honshu: 29.3 C (84.7 F)
Fukuoka, Kyushu: 28.3 C (82.9 F)
Naha, Okinawa: 30.4 C (86.7 F)


Key games are at the end of Sept. I have been there at that time of year. Cant see it being an issue.

Those also arent the average temperatures those are the high values you have quoted. Temperatures can also be as low as 17 in Sept and 11 in Oct. Average in tokyo in sept is 23 for example.

Its fairly unlikely that weather will be a major factor imo.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:33 pm

But the point being it can be warm, maybe you were there during a cooler spell, doesn't mean it will not be warm in September!

Its likely that weather could be a major factor imo.
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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 12:44 pm

From my memories of japan late summer early autumn it was quite wet not hot.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 1:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:But the point being it can be warm, maybe you were there during a cooler spell, doesn't mean it will not be warm in September!

Its likely that weather could be a major factor imo.

Youre right its possible but its not that likely though. About as likely as a RWC in France for example.

I reckon if it is consistently over 25 particularly for the ko games it could come into play for some of the nh sides. Cant see it happening though

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 2:11 pm

Anyway, if I know Gats, and if he did expect hot and humid conditions - and will have done his studying of conditions likely - he'd have his players running around in training with plastic suits underneath their kit. That man never leaves a stone unturned. The Welsh will be ready. The rest of us might be caught out, but not a Gats team

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 27 Jun 2019, 4:15 pm

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, if I know Gats, and if he did expect hot and humid conditions - and will have done his studying of conditions likely - he'd have his players running around in training with plastic suits underneath their kit.  That man never leaves a stone unturned.  The Welsh will be ready.  The rest of us might be caught out, but not a Gats team

The Squad are off to Turkey to train next month in the heat. Like you say, Gatlands squads are usually pretty well prepared so I don’t think it will be an issue.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 1:49 am

As most of the tourney is in October googling japans weather at that time doesnt suggest hot...
"October is one of the most pleasant months for traveling in Japan as the weather remains warm, but is not hot and humid anymore".

August averages low 30's where October averages low 20's.

September averages mid to upper 20's so the start of the tourney around mid sept will be the hottest/ wettest.

By the time of the final it should be perfect conditions.

You'd expect the grounds to be hard hard from the start though, depending on the impact the 'typhoon season' has had earlier..

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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 2:49 am

Taylorman wrote:You'd expect the grounds to be hard hard from the start though, depending on the impact the 'typhoon season' has had earlier..
Summer's are very humid in Japan, so the ground doesn't really get baked in the same way as drier countries. Mind you, it's not going to be soft underfoot, unless there's rain. It's the humidity rather than the heat which is the real killer in summer. It's much better by September and October but there are freak years when it drags on.

Also, there's quite a difference in latitude between Kyushu is the south and Hokkaido in the north, and pool matches are spread out. A lot of top teams are based in southern Kyushu, which is usually a few degress warmer than Tokyo. You can see temperatures of 30° in September. To get a good idea of what conditions your team will face, you'd need to check for the specific location.

Australia play pool matches in Sapporo in the North, and Oita in the south, which could be very different experiences. New Zealand's matches in Nagoya, Tokyo & Yokohama will be similar, while Oita could be warmer. Wales have two Kyushu matches, and they could well be warm, even in September.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 3:06 am

Confirmed, gats has done full circle, back in the mighty Waikato:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12244679

Interesting that coaches seem to see a move back as a viable option. Wonder what the pay parity is.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 9:58 am

Taylorman wrote:Confirmed, gats has done full circle, back in the mighty Waikato:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=12244679

Interesting that coaches seem to see a move back as a viable option. Wonder what the pay parity is.

I think the idea is that he's made/invested his money so can afford any drop now for the remainder of his career. Plus, if you want the BIG job you have to prove it.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 10:07 am

Yes I guess so, if he manages to lift the 6N and World cup in the same year one would be right in saying that for the Chiefs he’s ‘overqualified’ Whistle

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 10:34 am

TightHEAD wrote:The fittest team will win it.

Wales fall into that category, but do they have the strength in depth and experience for knockout rugby?
Also a lot depends on whether the roof is open or closed!

I dont think Wales are any fitter than anyone else. I do think that one of the great things Gatland managed to achieve was to convince the world that they are and more importantly convince his own guys that they were fitter than everyone else. The Welsh were low on confidence and belief before he came and they are not now.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 10:36 am

Taylorman wrote:Yes I guess so, if he manages to lift the 6N and World cup in the same year one would be right in saying that for the Chiefs he’s ‘overqualified’ Whistle

I think its fair to say he is already over qualified for the Chiefs. He is from Hamilton which is probably why he wants to coach them.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 10:52 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:The fittest team will win it.

Wales fall into that category, but do they have the strength in depth and experience for knockout rugby?
Also a lot depends on whether the roof is open or closed!

I dont think Wales are any fitter than anyone else. I do think that one of the great things Gatland managed to achieve was to convince the world that they are and more importantly convince his own guys that they were fitter than everyone else. The Welsh were low on confidence and belief before he came and they are not now.

I'd agree with this.

What I find most admirable about Gatland is how he has taken a group of players from teams which arguably under-perform in the European cup and domestically in the Pro14, and has imparted on them a mindset that they are world beaters. I don't mean to cause offence, but considering the state of their domestic game, Wales punch well above their weight in terms of international rugby. Gatland has done a fantastic job in changing their mindset and bringing their dogged spirit to the fore. He's given them that extra 1-2% winning mentality, which in elite level international sport makes all the difference. I do just hope it is a mindset that stays when he moves on from the WRU.


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:00 am

They are also one of the best prepared sides (practically and pragmatically) in any contest they show up for. Gatland does more than just motivate and establish belief. He coaches and he hires the people to help him do the physical work his players need to give them an edge
They are and always have been one of the fittest outfits to turn up in the contests they show for. Gatland is a good coach for a reason, and not just for the motivational stuff.

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Post by bluestonevedder on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:22 am

SecretFly wrote:They are also one of the best prepared sides (practically and pragmatically) in any contest they show up for.  Gatland does more than just motivate and establish belief.  He coaches and he hires the people to help him do the physical work his players need to give them an edge
They are and always have been one of the fittest outfits to turn up in the contests they show for.  Gatland is a good coach for a reason, and not just for the motivational stuff.

I hope you don't think my post above suggests that I only think Gatland brings the motivation aspect to the team? That's not my point at all. I just think that what sets him apart from other coaches is his ability to unite a group of players into a team, better than most others. You look at Eddie Jones' situation, and despite the fact that he has the backbone of Europe's most successful team in his starting 15, he can't always get them to gel as a team.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:25 am

For all accounts I have heard Gatland doesnt do that much in terms of "coaching" compared to other coaches. The biggest difference he makes is in belief.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:36 am

So now, Gatland is leaving Wales, and all of a sudden, he is the best coach in the business. Never mind, it's just what us Welsh have been telling you for years. Very Happy

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Post by bluestonevedder on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:40 am

LordDowlais wrote:So now,  Gatland is leaving Wales, and all of a sudden, he is the best coach in the business. Never mind, it's just what us Welsh have been telling you for years. Very Happy

Ah, come on, it's classic rival sporting mentality. Few fans will ever offer compliments about a rival team during the heyday, but as soon as the end is in sight, the compliments and mutual respect are laid to bare.

I for one have always respected Gatland. I spent 4 years in Wales playing rugby and at university, so was fully immersed in it. I could see he was a gem, despite Wales not always playing the most attractive rugby!

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:So now,  Gatland is leaving Wales, and all of a sudden, he is the best coach in the business. Never mind, it's just what us Welsh have been telling you for years. Very Happy

?

Collapse says he don't coach at all. As for me, I've been saying what I've said above for years.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:45 am

I was saying it with my tongue firmly into my cheek. thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 12:33 pm

Plus.... always build'em up before you try to take'em down *insert appropriate evil genius laugh* Wink

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 1:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So now,  Gatland is leaving Wales, and all of a sudden, he is the best coach in the business. Never mind, it's just what us Welsh have been telling you for years. Very Happy

?

Collapse says he don't coach at all.  As for me, I've been saying what I've said above for years.  

I would have thought it was obvious thats not what I said at all.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 1:16 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:So now,  Gatland is leaving Wales, and all of a sudden, he is the best coach in the business. Never mind, it's just what us Welsh have been telling you for years. Very Happy

?

Collapse says he don't coach at all.  As for me, I've been saying what I've said above for years.  

I would have thought it was obvious thats not what I said at all.

Oh relax for Christ's sake. I'm toying with Lord. You explain to him in detail what you meant. I don't care.

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Post by ebop on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 2:14 pm

Gatland has finally finished his apprenticeship abroad. Have to respect the guy for taking it to the nth degree.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 2:22 pm

ebop wrote:Gatland has finally finished his apprenticeship abroad. Have to respect the guy for taking it to the nth degree.

Yeah.  In a few short years, he'll ram all the creativity out of you guys and have you playing perfect crashball, GatlandBall, pure-Euro rugby, middle-of-the-field  mucktastic wonder rugby.

Enjoy ebop OK Hug

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Post by ebop on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 2:54 pm

Well time will tell whether that apprenticeship was worthwhile. He’s scored a +B or thereabouts. He’s lead a national team to a couple of NH things and lead a couple of Lions teams, etc. Now it’s time to dig in and do some proper work.
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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 3:23 pm

SecretFly wrote:Graham Henry is losing it.  Once a pretty good coach, now trying his hand at stand up comedy.  It's embarrassing really.

Wales one of the teams to beat?  

They're only 2nd in the World Rankings, Graham.  Like hello..... ?  Only 2nd.  That's all.
A team full of second rate Pro14 players, a pretend tag-rugby League from somewhere in Europe that isn't France or England.
They've only won 14 games on the trot.  They failed miserably to win 15 because they didn't play it yet.  Appalling stat when you lose the [b]rose-tinted glasses.[b]

This kinda stuff really annoys me.  Henry is just trying to stir it amongst the real teams in contention like Namibia, Uruguay, Italy and Ireland.

Henry is just a wum, and not a very good one.

Fly, England have the monopoly on rose tinted glasses they even wear the symbol on their shirts. Henry's glasses are simply very dark coloured sunglasses, totally lacking in class.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 3:26 pm

.........….and off to the Chiefs after the RWC until he breaks off for the Lions. So much for having a good knowledge of who is in form or injured.





Oh, Doh that doesn't matter with Gatland does it?

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 4:58 pm

Gatland only needs 8 days a Super Rugby franchise to qualify for the England job.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 28 Jun 2019, 11:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yes be interesting if theres a new winner, which can only really be either Wales or Ireland. No other side is good enough to win those three crucial knockouts, Argie would be next.

France could be quite a different team. There selection looks good and the squad will actually get to spend some time together.

True, tend to overlook France who are impossible to predict. So little is said about their current state from within, especially when you exclude those in french, they tend to surprise.

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