ICC Cricket World Cup - Part 4

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Post by Duty281 on Tue 02 Jul 2019, 9:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

Yes, England expected to be unchanged. Long boundaries apparently, which will suit England's excellent running ability!

If there were a decent replacement in the wings, I think Rashid's place would be under severe threat. He's got figures of 7/403 from 69 overs in the World Cup so far, which is hardly illuminating stuff.


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Post by jimbohammers on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:08 pm

Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:11 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

Have to disagree here Jimbo I'm afraid - Root will come in and be busy, which on the ground today should work fine, but I do think if these two are still there after 30 overs and we lose a wicket between 30-40, then Jos should be the next man in.
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Post by jimbohammers on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:16 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

Have to disagree here Jimbo I'm afraid - Root will come in and be busy, which on the ground today should work fine, but I do think if these two are still there after 30 overs and we lose a wicket  between 30-40, then Jos should be the next man in.

I just think there is nothing to lose putting in Buttler now, then Root can come in after and close the game out. Putting Root in now gives New Zealand a real chance to slow the run rate down.

Just think we don't use Buttler, a proper world class batsman, enough. Similar to the other day against India when he came in with 6 overs left is criminal.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:18 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

Too early to bring Jos in - he's much better suited to causing devastation in the last 15 or so when he's got licence to launch everything.
Could make an argument for Stokes or Morgan, but as long as the batsman the other end is still going well, there's no issue with Root coming in and just knocking a single every time he faces through the next 10 overs. Also, his busy-ness sets a different challenge for the fielding team.

The India game was just an anomaly, in that Bairstow got bogged down after Roy's wicket.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:27 pm

jimbohammers wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

Have to disagree here Jimbo I'm afraid - Root will come in and be busy, which on the ground today should work fine, but I do think if these two are still there after 30 overs and we lose a wicket  between 30-40, then Jos should be the next man in.

I just think there is nothing to lose putting in Buttler now, then Root can come in after and close the game out. Putting Root in now gives New Zealand a real chance to slow the run rate down.

Just think we don't use Buttler, a proper world class batsman, enough. Similar to the other day against India when he came in with 6 overs left is criminal.

Do agree that Jos only getting a few overs at the end in the other game was an issue, albeit a good one to have! Would like to see him come in earlier today, and would imagine we will
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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:28 pm

161-1 at half way. Certainly the foundations for targetting a big score.

Currently seem to be getting 6 or 7 an over with no risks. The only question now is how much longer we stay with this accumulation plan before the big attack. I reckon probably let YJB reach his century (if he does, it will be by about over 32 or 33), and then push the accelerator.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:30 pm

jimbohammers wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Buttler should come in at 3 after we get off to a flier, just keep going attacking and kill the game. Root coming in now just slows everything down and gets New Zealand back into it

Have to disagree here Jimbo I'm afraid - Root will come in and be busy, which on the ground today should work fine, but I do think if these two are still there after 30 overs and we lose a wicket  between 30-40, then Jos should be the next man in.

I just think there is nothing to lose putting in Buttler now, then Root can come in after and close the game out. Putting Root in now gives New Zealand a real chance to slow the run rate down.

Just think we don't use Buttler, a proper world class batsman, enough. Similar to the other day against India when he came in with 6 overs left is criminal.


Roy and Bairstow are the bets opening pair in the world. Root is our best batsman. Stokes statistically is the best 5 in the world over the past 4 years. 
Is Buttler better than Morgan at 4 (and vice versa)? Probably not. Buttler has the best SR of any of the England top 6, which kinda suggests he does well at the death. 
It would be criminal if England didnt have 5 world class batsmen above him.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:31 pm

Root isn't hitting boundaries but he is scoring more than a run a ball. What more do you want?

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:32 pm

Slightly odd that England have gone through 27 overs without a maximum!

Plenty of room and time to accelerate, however.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:33 pm

Ah, cheers YJB!

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:35 pm

Duty281 wrote:Slightly odd that England have gone through 27 overs without a maximum!



Short straight boundary ...funnily enough thats where he hit it. They mustve moved the commentary box overnight.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:37 pm

Duty281 wrote:Slightly odd that England have gone through 27 overs without a maximum!

Plenty of room and time to accelerate, however.

On cue

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:43 pm

Century, made easy by Southee bowling filth

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:44 pm

Century for Bairstow. Another fine knock in a high-pressure game.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:46 pm

That is a waste of a review Joseph
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:47 pm

Oh Root ...caught off what shouldve been a no ball for height and wasted a review on it

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:47 pm

Time for England's big hitters to bat the Kiwis out of the contest.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:48 pm

Buttler at 4 .... getting him in amongst the part time bowlers

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:51 pm

Buttler has never batted higher than 4 for England. He has done this 10 times, scoring 400 runs at an avergae of 50 and a strikerate of 160. 

It should be noted that the two most destructive innings saw him come in in the 36th and 37th over. He has scored a ton coming in in the 18th over, but much slower than his average when coming in 2 wickets down. In fact he has come in at second wicket down 4 times before the 20th over and other than that ton he has had two ducks and another single figure score.

He is most successful when he comes in as he has now, after the 30th over.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:52 pm

If Buttler comes off, this could get very messy. 200 (essentially) on the board, 20 overs and plenty of batting left...

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 12:55 pm

Also why is it so hard for commentators to understand that batsmen *don't* always know when they've hit it?
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:00 pm

Bairstow out. This might slow England up. 
Interesting Morgan in now, if they do look to go through some overs of quicks to rough him up that could leave a lot of junk at the end to bowl with Stokes still in the hutch

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:01 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Also why is it so hard for commentators to understand that batsmen *don't* always know when they've hit it?


Its one myth that DRS has really disproved. You used to hear it a lot more with absolute certainty, but more and more the technology has shown the batsmen dont feel everything.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:02 pm

Again a batsman gets 100 and gets out very shortly thereafter. I'd be interested to see the stats on that for this tournament - there don't seem to have been many big hundreds and a lot out between 100-110.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:04 pm

Goose

I also wonder if batsmen don't hear the nick as clearly because of the helmet, especially the increased covering of the ears by a modern grill.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:10 pm

dummy_half wrote:Again a batsman gets 100 and gets out very shortly thereafter. I'd be interested to see the stats on that for this tournament - there don't seem to have been many big hundreds and a lot out between 100-110.

There have been 25 tons and 13 of those have finished between 100 and 110. 12 have gone on. The highest score is Warner's 166, there have been 2 other 150s and 3 140-150s.

Of the 13 scores between 100 and 110, 4 of those have been not outs, so 9 players out between 100 and 110. Contrast this to the "nervous 90s" where only 4 players have been out for a score between 90 and 100.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:11 pm

dummy_half wrote:Again a batsman gets 100 and gets out very shortly thereafter. I'd be interested to see the stats on that for this tournament - there don't seem to have been many big hundreds and a lot out between 100-110.

25 centuries in the tournament so far, 9 of them have got out between 100-110. 

Oooh, soft dismissal for Buttler, and again we're seeing a fielding side reeling in the batting side after a completely one-sided first half.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:11 pm

Wickets tumbling now ... maybe chickens counted too fast! This looks very similar to the India bangladesh game yesterday. 

Nerves!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:11 pm

This is not good batting by the middle order so far - Buttler now goes chipping one to mid off, and England in real danger of wasting Roy and Bairstow's fantastic work
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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:13 pm

Buttler falls to Boult, making a bit of the mockery of calls to bring him in earlier.

Surely with only 3 overs of Boult left you just see him off? After this over they'll probably save him for the death and you can tuck in to Southee or Neesham.

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Post by alfie on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:13 pm

Ha. Been off for an hour and return to see the collapse is on Smile

This sending Buttler in early thing doesn't seem to have worked too well ... In fact Jos has been a bit out of sorts lately : today really did look set up for him.

Work for the lefties to do now.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:17 pm

So 15 to go for England, 218-4 and it's their last recognised batsmen before the all rounders come in. Both fairly fresh to the crease and will be worried about leaving too much for the bowlers to do.

Look to push that up to 250 after 40 and then go on the offensive? Probably going to get 5 overs of the weaker bowlers now, so can't let them just burn through overs for free. Have to keep being proactive.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:29 pm

Stokes seeming to have some problems getting going, with a maiden from Neesham and a series of dots against Southee. Then again, he's not necessarily started fast in his last couple of innings, but caught up well enough once settled.

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Post by alfie on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:35 pm

Well Duty's 400 is off the table again. Wonder what is a good score on this ?
I fancy there is an indication that the older ball just isn't coming on to the bat , upsetting their timing and limiting the stroke making . Think these two have opted to get to , say , 42-43 overs before trying to launch. Still think England are well placed - though remembering the Boycott Two Wicket Theory you can never be too sure...

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:38 pm

NZ have bowled very well in this second half. Excellent line and length.

Don't think it'll be too long before Stokes and Morgan throw the bat with abandon.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:41 pm

241-4 heading into the last 10. Need to think about that accelerator soon. It's harder to score on the pitch now and we probably won't get the 350 we were hoping for earlier, but 320/330 would still be an imposing score.

With Woakes, Plunkett, Rashid, Archer and even Wood able to come in and clear the ropes, it's nearly time to for these two to start teeing off. Both have faced over 20 balls and should be getting the pace of the pitch by now.

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Post by alfie on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:42 pm

Santner has come back well....

Very well now as Stokes throws it away ! Danger signs

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:42 pm

That is an absolutely woeful innings from Stokes
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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:50 pm

WTF is going on? Barely able to get the ball off the square now.

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Post by No name Bertie on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:51 pm

NZ have made some good bowling decisions in the second half of this innings.

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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:51 pm

cant see us getting 300 now

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:52 pm

Neesham has some very handy figures for a 6th bowler, with 9 overs going 1-36, to the point we haven't really seen de Grandhomme after his first over went for 11, which is a bit of a surprise to me. He's one I think we would have been looking to target, but he's bowled intelligently and got the wicket of the man most likely to take him apart.

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Post by dummy_half on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:53 pm

Last 4 overs (overs 41-44 yielded 13 runs and 1 wicket...

300 looks a long way away now

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:54 pm

Swing, England, swing.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:55 pm

Whilst it's good by NZ, this is embarassing by England's middle order
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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:57 pm

England really getting in a pickle here, pressure on Moeen. 

England will have the bowl smart and accurately now. But it seems the early pace has gone so NZ will have to hit hard to chase, looks like it will be less than 300 though. 

Worrying


Oops Moeens dropped inst he...plunkett. Im actually happier its him in than Moeen whos tended to scratch a lot


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Post by robbo277 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 1:58 pm

Gooseberry wrote:England really getting in a pickle here, pressure on Moeen. 

England will have the bowl smart and accurately now. But it seems the early pace has gone so NZ will have to hit hard to chase, looks like it will be less than 300 though. 

Worrying

Moeen's not playing so it's Plunkett coming out next.

Woakes and Archer opened well against India which really helped us restrict them. Could do with taking all our grabs in the slips today though.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 2:01 pm

robbo277 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:England really getting in a pickle here, pressure on Moeen. 

England will have the bowl smart and accurately now. But it seems the early pace has gone so NZ will have to hit hard to chase, looks like it will be less than 300 though. 

Worrying

Moeen's not playing so it's Plunkett coming out next.

Woakes and Archer opened well against India which really helped us restrict them. Could do with taking all our grabs in the slips today though.


Yep just realised and corrected! 

Woakes showed how to bowl with a soft ball on a dead pitch to restrict Hardik and the Indian middle order. Archer pratcising spin bolwing suggests that England read this might happen. 

Its been a feature of the world cup that teams have often let great starts slip, and thats where we have seen what often wouldve been well over 350 scores drop below 300. 

But as KPF will endlessly point out, chasing 300 has been as hard as setting 350.

Morgans now decided to go for it a bit rather than run out of partners.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 2:02 pm

England keep getting out chipping tamely to the infielders. Have a thrash for goodness sake.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 03 Jul 2019, 2:03 pm

Oh jeepers miracle catch does for Morgan.

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