Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

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Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:15 pm

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?



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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:19 pm

I think it might be more like

1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Jarvis 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Keddie
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Hewitt 15. Williams

Wouldn't be overly surprised if Griffiths started for us at 12 though and Warren at 13. We definitely need a good start though. Few home games to start, would be great.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

Samson Lee
Ken Owens
Rob Evans
Ryan Elias
Dylan Evans
Wyn Jones
Werner Kruger

And that is just off the top of my head, they do not look that weak to me. Also, have you forgotten about Kieron Fonotia ? He is a very handy center.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:25 pm

Just realised, you are talking about whilst the WC is on, aren't you ? That being said, everyone will be taking hits on that front.

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Post by St John The Enforcer on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:31 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season.  Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack.  They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced.  They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC.  Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect.  I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe  
Good summary of all teams. From a Leinster pov Gibson Park is now IQ and Tomane is on a Tongan passport so we can play all 4 together now.

We have some serious young prospects coming through too. Both U20 locks Ryan Baird and Charlie Ryan. Deegan, Dorris and Scott Penny in the back row. Ronan Kelleher at hooker. Happy enough with The Byrne twins also at prop and hooker and Peter Dooley.

That's just the pack.

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Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Just realised, you are talking about whilst the WC is on, aren't you ? That being said, everyone will be taking hits on that front.

Some teams more than others. Reckon Scarlets could miss as many as 14.

Likely they will have 1. Evans 2. M Jones 3. Kruger - I fancy our front 3 over those anyday of the week.

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Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:47 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:
5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season.  Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack.  They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced.  They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC.  Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect.  I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe  
Good summary of all teams. From a Leinster pov Gibson Park is now IQ and Tomane is on a Tongan passport so we can play all 4 together now.

We have some serious young prospects coming through too. Both U20 locks Ryan Baird and Charlie Ryan. Deegan, Dorris and Scott Penny in the back row. Ronan Kelleher at hooker. Happy enough with The Byrne twins also at prop and hooker and Peter Dooley.

That's just the pack.

I'm not doubting that there is a bunch of undiscovered talent in the league. And I'm sure some will develop from the gametime. But I would imagine as a Leinster fan you probably wouldn't want to draw the Blues at home either? They probably will have the following pack out assuming Ellis recovers:

1. Gill 2.Dacey 3. Arhip 4. Down 5. Davies 6. Turnbull 7. Jenkins 8. Williams

Lots of experience in that front 8. I cant imagine any side wants to get them before the their internationals return. Don't get me wrong though Leinster with their full squad available wouldn't be worried in the slightest. But im guessing they would be without their Ireland contingent available.

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Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:49 pm

Then again it is the Blues - they are capable of blowing any advantage Very Happy

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Post by St John The Enforcer on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:50 pm

Sure. But a great test for the young lads that would advance their development further than a whole season of training

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 4:33 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Just realised, you are talking about whilst the WC is on, aren't you ? That being said, everyone will be taking hits on that front.

Some teams more than others.  Reckon Scarlets could miss as many as 14.

Likely they will have 1. Evans 2. M Jones 3. Kruger - I fancy our front 3 over those anyday of the week.

That's not a bad starting front row, Kruger is a bit of a beast. A little lacking in experience though.

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 5:59 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Just realised, you are talking about whilst the WC is on, aren't you ? That being said, everyone will be taking hits on that front.


"From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup."


I'm curious, LD, which bit of this opening sentence made you not think he was talking about players missing during the RWC?

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Post by profitius on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 7:22 pm

As a Munster fan I'm looking forward to the new season. Can't say I'd much enthusiasm for Munster in the previous few seasons but the arrival of Larkham changes things. We should expect to see better attacking rugby although I'm not expecting an overnight miracle.
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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 05 Jul 2019, 7:29 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season.  Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack.  They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced.  They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC.  Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect.  I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe
 

Leinster don't have a rule of not being able to select 2 non-Irish players in their starting 15. Don't know where you got that from, but maybe you were thinking of the rule across all European comps about match-day squads not being allowed more than 2 non-European players which effectively means players 2 max from either Aus or NZ.

I agree with you about the pack being underpowered/inexperienced, particularly if Ruddock travels to RWC/Japan. Lock is their biggest problem position with only two established locks and none on the bench from the senior squad, so likely that Baird/Dowling/Dunne will get game time from the Academy. 3 of the provinces have deliberately gone all-Irish in their recruitment/promotion for next season, with Ulster playing catch-up on furriners following their clear-out over last 12 months.

A Leinster 23 during RWC could likely have:

1. Ed Byrne - 22 PRO14/H Cup games last season incl starts home and away against Dragons
2. James Tracy (26 P!4/HCup games - 12 starts) or Bryan Byrne - 16 PRO14 games with just 4 starts
3. Andrew Porter (23 P14/HCup - 5 starts) or Michael Bent - 18 PRO14/HCup games with 12 starts
4. Ross Molony - 18 games - 9 starts
5. Fardy - Loads
6/7/8 Ruddock/Will Connors/Penny/Josh Murphy/Max Deegan/Caelan Doris
9 - Gibson-Park/O'Sullivan
10 - Ross Byrne/Ciaran Frawley
12 O'Loughlin/Tomane
13 COB
11/14. McFadden/Lowe/Daly/A Byrne/D Kearney/JOB/Keenan
15 Cian Keleher

Should be interesting few games from 27 Sept start to season.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 09 Jul 2019, 12:49 am

Great article, but just a few things from me:

Scarlets aren’t weak in the front 3. Werner Kruger is better than what dragons have right now, and they may also have Wyn Jones, Ryan Elias available. They will be weak in the backs though with pretty much an entire backline missing. Fonotia likely to be with Samoa.

I honestly fail to see why you think so highly of Cardiff? Awful defence and have been going backwards under JM. They should have some good wingers available but are still light at fullback.their midfield should be good where Evans, Halaholo, and Millard should be available, Lloyd Williams is very poor at everything he does though.

Ospreys will be without Davies who I expect to make the World Cup squad over Ball due to him being unavailable for most of the last season, which is unfortunate for him as I think he is capable of forcing his way to the starting team after getting adequate game time. Ospreys are without 3 locks and allowed Thornton to move to Cardiff... they have average blind-sides slotting into the 2nd row. This team looks very poor on paper without the internationals. I think Scarlets would have done better in both competitions next season.

Munster have Arno Botha at 8 as far as I’m aware. They have another Saffa at lock who is very strong. I’m not sure who will feature at TH for them. I think they’ll overpower us up front at RP unless there is a drastic improvement in the team under Dean Ryan.

Leinster are still very good, their academy has come to RP and stuffed us, and they’ll still be difficult to compete with at the RDS.

I agree that Ulster will be the strongest in these rounds. I know they’ve recruited well, and I’m not sure if they’ll lose that many guys to Ireland.

I think Connacht are the team most likely to be catching the big guns cold just like before. They’re already a settled team and are capable of getting lots of points.

Edinburgh are another team who could be the ones to start taking other teams out early on. Their overseas guys will be the difference here.

Glasgow again seem to have good depth, and have also convincingly beaten us with what appears to be an academy team.

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Post by Pot Hale on Thu 11 Jul 2019, 11:08 am

I see that Cheetahs have recruited Ruan Pienaar for two seasons - a good head to have around for the squad. No doubt he’ll get a good welcome back in Ireland when they come to play.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 10:42 am

I do not know if this is the correct place to post this link, but there is a very damning article on WOL about the choice to put the Pro14 on premier sports, it also reinforces the point I made about the Welsh Prem getting more viewers in Wales that the Pro14 is getting.

No doubt the usual suspects will be on here trying to rubbish this again, but again, I am putting an article from the national media source of Wales, not my words, but something I have been banging the drum about since the decision has been made, please read, it is very interesting:-

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/cricket-world-cup-final-come-16580201

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 10:44 am

And for those who do not like to click on the link:-

Why the Cricket World Cup final will come with a warning for the Welsh regions and Guinness PRO14
One vital aspect connects these two - and it cannot be ignored

Anyone who cares about Welsh regional rugby and the Guinness PRO14 cannot possibly watch Sunday's Cricket World Cup final without connecting both the sports, and the competitions.

It could be viewed as bizarre that from the moment England beat Australia to book a showdown with New Zealand at Lords which will decide the best 50-over team on the planet, the decision to show the occasion on free-to-air television - specifically Channel 4 - has been so central to the narrative.

Then again, is it not a reminder of the power of TV when it comes to embedding specific sports in the cultural consciousness of a nation?

England v New Zealand will now enjoy the same potential visibility as the Wimbledon men's final (BBC) and the British Grand Prix (Channel 4), the other major events competing for attention on the same day.

Which of those will attract the largest audience? We'll see, but surely England - and a swaggering, innovative England at that - in a first World Cup final for 27 years will trump Federer-Djokovic at SW19 and Lewis Hamilton at Silverstone.

The Channel 4 move is unlikely to make cricket the main topic of conversation that it was during and after England's 2005 Ashes win against the Aussies (the last time terrestrial TV had the rights).

Yet by becoming watchable for millions more people, the boost even this one-off event will provide to cricket across the whole of the UK will be immeasurably significant.

Cricket, a decade and a half ago, opted to take the money on offer from Sky. The sport's administrators argued that it would be ploughed into the grassroots of the game and thus ensure its future ongoing health.

But however many bats, pads and helmets have been provided for budding Joe Roots up and down the land, there is increasing evidence that the game has lost contact with the public psyche.

Regional rugby in Wales, since its transferral to paid-for broadcaster Premier Sports, is in grave danger of going the same way.

And the prospect was brought into sharper focus just this week when it emerged that Six Nations bosses have decided the tournament must remain on BBC and ITV.

It's understood that one of the major influences on the decision was the superior viewing figures commanded by the women's football World Cup compared to the Cricket World Cup on Sky.

Retaining the Six Nations' grip on public attention was, it is said, seen as far more important than hiding it behind a TV paywall - even if it meant not trousering a short-term wad of cash.

Given the apparent prevalence of this attitude, you wonder why other parts of the rugby power spectrum have been so willing to sign up with Sky, BT Sport and Premier.

Yes, yes. The money. Nobody needs reminding of media market forces and their manifold pros and cons.

But in the case of the regions and the Guinness PRO14, other considerations have to be seen as, if not paramount, then certainly worthy of the the utmost caution.

The Blues, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets have been in existence for 16 years and are still engaged in an ongoing battle for more hearts and minds in their own respective backyards.

As for the PRO14, it too has a serious image problem. Its protagonists like to point to the records of the Irish teams in the Champions Cup and the fact that so many Welsh and Irish players become Lions every four years as evidence of its strength.

It's a flawed outlook because the credibility of the competition hinges only on what unfolds week in, week out in terms of who plays and the quality and intensity of the matches we see.

Putting sport on subscription channels forces enthusiasts to ask themselves one question: do I want to watch this enough to pay monthly for it?

The answer, in the case of the PRO14, and especially in Wales where the indifference has more than one source, is too often a resounding no.

After a season on Premier Sports we've still had no official data from the broadcaster about subscription take-up. Why not? Surely it's time for some transparency.

What we do know is the tournament is less visible than ever. It's in less living rooms, less pubs (if any), seen by less kids and talked about less than it has ever been. This is a tournament, remember, that still has a job on its hands persuading people it's worth investing in. The same problem the regions face. The problem that never seems to go away.


The summer of 2019 couldn't offer us a major men's football tournament. It couldn't offer us a Lions tour. But it's on its way to being more memorable than many would have imagined.

And, with the Women's World Cup to the fore, it has been a period which has reminded us that free-to-air television remains an extraordinarily powerful tool.

Unlike the pounds satellite broadcasters feed into bank accounts, it is a power that cannot be quantified. Yet you underestimate it at your peril.

The penny (no pun intended) needs to drop among Guinness PRO14 power-brokers.

Sure, having more TV money to dole out is important. Some may argue vital. But not when viewing figures for the semi-professional game in Wales are trouncing what is on offer on Premier Sports.

Without visibility, without accessibility, without a profile that actually gets you talked about in pubs and offices, you have nothing.

And, in its own way, TV viewers' consumption of the Cricket World Cup final will be the proof.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 10:58 am

What's the difference in viewing figures?

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:26 am

So from the article the issue the pro 14 has is that it's stars don't play in enough games which wouldn't be fixed by Free Tv unless he means that the stars will be the regular Joe's of the league due to stars leaving.

Also by the authors logic women's world cup will soon be bigger than the champions league as more people watched England v USA then Liverpool v Spurs in the uk

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:What's the difference in viewing figures?

He doesn't know but he knows he is right. Premier Sports said that subs were better than expected so probably quite good.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

Delme Parfitt wrote:What we do know is the tournament is less visible than ever. It's in less living rooms, less pubs (if any), seen by less kids and talked about less than it has ever been.

I'm not inclined to value the opinions of a journalist who doesn't know the difference between 'less' and 'fewer'.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:41 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Delme Parfitt wrote:What we do know is the tournament is less visible than ever. It's in less living rooms, less pubs (if any), seen by less kids and talked about less than it has ever been.

I'm not inclined to value the opinions of a journalist who doesn't know the difference between 'less' and 'fewer'.

Either way, it' not good news. OK

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:44 am

Until the viewing figures are published, we don't know.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:50 am

Hi LP, I know first hand, within my rugby community, that the Pro14 is now just an afterthought. We all used to watch it in the club, we do not do this now, it was always spoken about, we do not do this now.

Also, with the new cross border competition between the Welsh and Scottish clubs, all the talk is about that, we always used to be about the regions, now, it's almost as if they are a nuisance.

I do not know how deeply your involved with rugby in your area, but the chatter about the regions is gone up here, nobody cares about the Pro14 anymore. A story that has emerged recently, is Jonathan Davies being targeted by Leicester to replace Tuilagi. That used to be big news, now, nobody cares.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 11:55 am

In march.

What are the differences in viewing then LD. If it's a couple of hundred surely taking the money is the better option?

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 12:04 pm

And all of this is based on the cricket world cup final being FTA? Comparing apples and oranges there, surely. But while we're comparing apples to oranges, why not look at the football Premier League (rather than a 1 off cricket world cup final). The premier league is not FTA but everyone still talks about it (in football circles) and it's grown massively since being on paid TV. Why didn't that sound the death knell of the premier league?
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 12:41 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hi LP, I know first hand, within my rugby community, that the Pro14 is now just an afterthought. We all used to watch it in the club, we do not do this now, it was always spoken about, we do not do this now.

Also, with the new cross border competition between the Welsh and Scottish clubs, all the talk is about that, we always used to be about the regions, now, it's almost as if they are a nuisance.

I do not know how deeply your involved with rugby in your area, but the chatter about the regions is gone up here, nobody cares about the Pro14 anymore. A story that has emerged recently, is Jonathan Davies being targeted by Leicester to replace Tuilagi. That used to be big news, now, nobody cares.

I'm probably not in the best position to judge, as everyone I talk rugby with is a Dragons supporter, so obviously we talk about the league. But ultimately the unions have to weigh up all the factors when they make the decision. They won't have looked at the money alone.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 2:55 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Hi LP, I know first hand, within my rugby community, that the Pro14 is now just an afterthought. We all used to watch it in the club, we do not do this now, it was always spoken about, we do not do this now.

Also, with the new cross border competition between the Welsh and Scottish clubs, all the talk is about that, we always used to be about the regions, now, it's almost as if they are a nuisance.

I do not know how deeply your involved with rugby in your area, but the chatter about the regions is gone up here, nobody cares about the Pro14 anymore. A story that has emerged recently, is Jonathan Davies being targeted by Leicester to replace Tuilagi. That used to be big news, now, nobody cares.

Why don't you watch it in the club anymore, the Premier subscription is a lot less than say Sky or BT ? Does the club have either of those?

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 3:00 pm

Irish Londoner wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Hi LP, I know first hand, within my rugby community, that the Pro14 is now just an afterthought. We all used to watch it in the club, we do not do this now, it was always spoken about, we do not do this now.

Also, with the new cross border competition between the Welsh and Scottish clubs, all the talk is about that, we always used to be about the regions, now, it's almost as if they are a nuisance.

I do not know how deeply your involved with rugby in your area, but the chatter about the regions is gone up here, nobody cares about the Pro14 anymore. A story that has emerged recently, is Jonathan Davies being targeted by Leicester to replace Tuilagi. That used to be big news, now, nobody cares.

Why don't you watch it in the club anymore, the Premier subscription is a lot less than say Sky or BT ? Does the club have either of those?

The club will not pay the money for it. It costs too much. Yes the club has SKY and BT, but these were purchased before the Pro14 went to PS, and they are budgeted for. The club has to pay per square foot for these channels, not a one off, subscription fee that you would pay at home.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 3:17 pm

I'll assume it's true that you dont know the viewing figures then.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 4:05 pm

Nobody knows the viewing figures for PS.

But the trouble is, people on here keep trying to brush it off, when I post articles from the national news media of Wales.

It's almost as though certain members on here just do not want to believe it. Look, this is not just any random person saying this on an internet forum anymore, it's professional people who are now saying the same thing.

It's almost as though, if people argue enough against it, it is not happening. Well trust me, it is. Before people have a go at me, I think PS do a decent job covering the Pro14, the problem is, not enough people are watching it anymore, and as alluded to in the article, and as I have been saying for a while, there is a strong argument that more people are now watching the Welsh Prem in Wales.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 4:31 pm

But you cant definitively say that or offer a strong argument as you've just admitted nobody knows the viewing figures.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 4:44 pm

There is a wider point that the potential for big numbers is better with channel 4 than sky but BT are pulling in large numbers now and viewing habits are changing. Taking the cricket for example as in the article more will have seen the 1st test of that 05 ashes than the 1st game of this world cup. Has it mattered in terms of quality of player or people playing the sport. Doesn't seem to have had.
Finally if the viewing figures are now higher for the semi pro leagues does it matter? The fa cup for similar free to air reasons has more viewers than the premier league in Britain at least. People still watch the sport.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 5:59 pm

LD you still haven't addressed how the author says the problem with the league is to many games without the stars which has nothing to do with TV rights.

First being on FTA does not fix it the problem.
Second I'd we didn't have the extra money from the deal each team would be down 1-3 star players for the whole season.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 6:28 pm

LD, you keep suggesting this article is coming from a credible source, that it’s in the ‘national media outlet of Wales’, etc. However, it’s Wales Online. It’s a really poor and trashy source. It’s the welsh equivalent of the Daily Mail or Daily Star. It’s just missing the t*ts on page 3. They write sensationalist garbage like those other papers I mention. You just have to look at the articles on the homepage and all of the click bait stuff. They write it because it turns heads and people click on it and advertisers then pay them for the number of hits they get. It crashes my work computer half the time with the amount of pop ups and adverts as soon as you go on a rugby article. Plus, this isn’t a journalistic piece as such. It is the views of one person alone (Delme Parfitt). Where’s his research and links and contributions from key stakeholders in this debate to make it a rounded and objective article? You’re buying in to his view alone. Why is this gospel? Or to put it another way, if I got a job at WOL tomorrow and wrote an article to say that Premier Sports and Pro14 was all great and rosy would you take my word for it just because you read it in WOL? I’d really hope not!
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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 6:36 pm

I replied to Delme Parfitt and Andy Howell, when they publicised this article. I don’t know why he mentions formula one and cricket as competing for attention, when they weren’t if they’re on the same channel.

If there is more interest in Welsh Premiership rugby than the pro teams, than attendances need to back that up and they don’t. Even Dragons get above 4K a game. I would be surprised if many Welsh Premiership games manage that. All it seems like to me the more these laughable articles get produced on here, is that these people Dowlais, Delme and Howell are concerned about offer absolutely nothing to the pro game anyway, as they want everything for nothing and if they were as big a rugby supporter as they pretend to be, then £10 a month would not be a stretch, particularly with the games on for that price.

It might be “the national media of Wales”, but that doesn’t mean a hatchet job article, with not one shred of evidence and no actual investigatory work should be considered as gospel. Seeing as Delme is so concerned about rugby off FTA, why doesn't he investigate why BBC were outbid by Premier? Why is he so blind to the fact that the Pro teams desperately need any increased income and that pandering to people who are couch potatoes isn’t going to benefit their revenue streams.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 15 Jul 2019, 8:28 pm

I still haven’t seen anything to reinforce the point made about the Welsh Prem getting more viewers in Wales than the Pro14 is getting.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 8:23 am

I'm glad all the budding journalists are out in force on here to discredit what has been written, and play it down, the thing is, if this is indeed sensationalism, then why am I not ever seeing any articles which states the opposite ?

There are no other national media outlets in Wales, only regional, so the thing is, however poor and trashy you all think it is, that is just your opinion. WOL is nothing like the Daily Star.

The fact of the matter is, that somebody working in the media have actually written this, on more than one occasion, yet here you all are just dismissing it, discrediting it, saying it's not true. You are all like Donald Trump talking about climate change, and trying to convince everybody it's not happening.

If you were all being honest, you would admit, that whilst the money was good from the outset of putting the Pro14 behind a ppv wall, in the long run, it will not be as good, not in Wales anyway, where it was treading water when it was on the BBC, now it is not getting enough exposure in Wales, surely you cannot deny this ?

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 8:28 am

RiscaGame wrote:why BBC were outbid by Premier?

Do you have any proof of this ?

I read that the BBC had offered significantly more than their original deal, but the Pro14 decided they wanted their product on PPV tv.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 10:12 am

It's an opinion piece not news.

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Post by BamBam on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 10:14 am

LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:why BBC were outbid by Premier?

Do you have any proof of this ?

I read that the BBC had offered significantly more than their original deal, but the Pro14 decided they wanted their product on PPV tv.

You do realise that the BBC offering significantly more than their original deal and the BBC being outbid by Premier can both be true?

Why on earth would Pro14 go for pay TV if the Beeb were offering more?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 10:34 am

Just to say as well I certainly have said that tv deals are always a balancing act on coverage to money etc. On denying how bad this coverage is: what are the viewing figures. Once we know that the second part of the jigsaw is what's the participation rates of schools kids etc over a period of 10 to 15 years. The criticism could be that cricket on sky has made it a closed shop. The money pumped into youth pitches and grass roots has however been really good and we've now just won the world cup. I guess you need to know what the overall aims of the organising bodies are to judge on whether they are meeting their goals.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 12:29 pm

BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:why BBC were outbid by Premier?

Do you have any proof of this ?

I read that the BBC had offered significantly more than their original deal, but the Pro14 decided they wanted their product on PPV tv.

You do realise that the BBC offering significantly more than their original deal and the BBC being outbid by Premier can both be true?

Why on earth would Pro14 go for pay TV if the Beeb were offering more?

Because the Pro14 wanted to sell their product as a package, BBC Wales just wanted the games involving the Welsh regions.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 1:16 pm

So overall the league would have recieved less then.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 1:31 pm

[quote="LordDowlais"]
BamBam wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:why BBC were outbid by Premier?
Do you have any proof of this ?
I read that the BBC had offered significantly more than their original deal, but the Pro14 decided they wanted their product on PPV tv.
You do realise that the BBC offering significantly more than their original deal and the BBC being outbid by Premier can both be true?
Why on earth would Pro14 go for pay TV if the Beeb were offering more?
Because the Pro14 wanted to sell their product as a package, BBC Wales just wanted the games involving the Welsh regions.[/q

A package makes more sense as it's spread across all the countries involved. I presume BBC Scotlandshire and NI didn't have the budget for a joint bid for the UK based teams?

It's all going to be irrelevant soon anyway - once CVC have their mitts on the PRO14, 6Ns and Premiership they'll undoubtedly push for an all B & I league as it's the obvious way to maximise their revenues - Leinster V Wasps or Worcester V London Irish - you can see the way the wind is blowing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 1:35 pm

Never going to happen.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 16 Jul 2019, 7:13 pm

Fixtures up to Round 20 released 1pm tomorrow. I don’t think it has been earlier before (especially considering the later season start) and certainly not this organised anyway.

The perks of Premier Sports are immediately apparent again, unless you eat in a Thai restaurant or are called Delme.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 17 Jul 2019, 1:10 pm

I think every single one of Ulster's home fixtures is at 7.35pm, and all but one is on a Friday night.

You couldn't write it!!!

Oh no wait you could. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 17 Jul 2019, 1:21 pm

Did you look for their fixtures first?

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 17 Jul 2019, 1:22 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Did you look for their fixtures first?

No, why?

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