Pro 14 2019/2020 Season

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Post by Welshmushroom on Thu 04 Jul 2019, 2:15 pm

First topic message reminder :

From a Dragons fan perspective looking ahead into the new season and which sides I would like to catch early in the Pro14 due to players having gone to the World Cup.

Obviously Hill, Dee & Moriarty will be big misses for us during this period. I think we may have Wainwright available (if they end up picking Shingler to cover Lock/Blindside). Think Brown probably wont make the cut either.

So hopefully our starter lineup will look like this:
1. Bevington 2. Hibbard 3. Brown/Fairbrother 4. Nansen 5. Screech 6. Wainwright 7. Griffiths 8. Evans
9. Williams 10. Davies 11. Rosser 12. Dixon 13. Morgan 14. Howells 15. Williams

Now looking at the other sides in the competition it would be great if we could catch some of the league powerhouses early. My Breakdown of the other teams:-

1. Scarlets - Look weak in the front 3. Possibly a weakness at outside centre as well. Would imagine they will be playing Asquith at 12 during this period. McNicholl will probably be the star man on this team opening rounds.

2. Blues - On paper even without the internationals they look a seasoned well rounded team. Probably dangerous for any team in the league during the opening rounds. Halaholo is my star man pick but the entire Blues 8 are extremely experienced (although I don't rate Gill much). Also unclear if Ellis will recover from injury or if he will end up parachuted into Wales WC Squad. If not he will just add to that fairly experienced pack.

3. Ospreys - Will have a fairly competitive pack assuming Bradley doesn't make the cut for the World Cup. The real weakness for them is in the backline. At 9 currently they will be playing rookies and 13 potentially as well unless they opt to play Hook at 12 and move Allen to 13. Giles will probably end up on the wing as well and while he has potential - defensively they may struggle against experienced backlines. That said they probably have enough upfront to power over most teams in the league. Star Man will be Bradley Davies if he doesn't make the world cup.

4. Munster - Probably going to missing around 11 players on World Cup duty. To me Tighthead and at 8 they look particularly weak. To me the backline also looks a little short on quality although granted they do have some potential in the backline.Personally I would like to catch them at Rodney Parade early. I'm still not sure away would be a banker for us. Reckon their key man will be Bleyendaal in the opening part of the season for his experience.

5. Leinster - Now I don't know if they still have the rule of not being able to select 2 non irish players in their starting 15's or if they are allowed exceptions in the early part of this season. Even taking into consideration that they can start Fardy, Gibson-Park, Lowe and Tomane the real problem for them is in the pack. They look seriously underpowered and inexperienced. They probably are hoping Smidt doesn't take Ruddock to the WC. Personally getting these in R2 or R3 away would be perfect. I think we can take them early doors before the return of their internationals. Star Man: Lowe

6. Ulster - For me probably the biggest Irish threat early. Only place they might be a little short on experience will be at 5 and 14. Pack on paper looks extremely strong and along with Cardiff both these sides should be fairly confident into the early rounds. Star Man: McCloskey
Would like to avoid these early doors altogether.

7. Connacht - Not really disrupted to much for internationals like us. Good experienced team. Always going to be dangerous at home. Star Man: Roux Another side I would like to see us avoid early doors but if we have to a home draw that wouldn't be the worst fixture start for us.

8. Edinburgh - Cockerill has done a amazing job with them. Surely even he can't cover 14 players at the world cup. Still managed to assemble a big pack for this period though so it's clear they wont be beaten upfront easily. 9, 10 and 15 look like the real problem area for him. Getting them at home would suit me fine. Star Man: Socino

9. Glasgow - Probably losing at least 13 players if not more. They still have a lot of experience in that squad. On paper probably have to much for us home or away. If we have to though a home draw would be better. Star Man: Lee Jones

10. Treviso - Backline looks very experienced for the league. Upfront a different story altogether. Can see them taking a bit of a battering upfront early doors. Star Man: Ioane
Don't mind if we get them early home or away

11. Zebre - Same story with them. Losing key personnel to the WC. Upfront looks very inexperienced. Backline will also be inexperienced. Can they get Boni back in time for the start of the season. The Centre was a powerhouse before his long term injury and would also have made the Italian squad if he wasn't out of action. Star Man: Walker (reckon he's going to surprise a few in the Pro14)

12. Kings - Not going to be missing any internationals. But they still lack quality for compete at this level. No signings of note in the off season. Could be a long season for them again? Personally I expect us to beat them home and away. Would be a waste to draw them during the World Cup period. Star Man: Catrakilis

13. Cheetahs - Same story as the Kings. To many lost star after their first season in the Pro14. They do have a better record than the kings and at home they will win games. Prefer to not draw them either in the opening rounds. Star Man: Nche

How do you fancy your teams chances and what teams would you like to draw early or avoid during the World Cup?



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Post by The Oracle on Tue 10 Sep 2019, 9:11 pm

BamBam wrote:No, but that would probably be more entertaining than watching the Welsh in the Pro 14 Run


How rude.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:10 pm

Scarlets' team probably looks a bit different to how I envisioned it at the start of this thread. If they improve from their pre-season game then they're going to be one of the ones to do well. Otherwise, Edinburgh and Ulster will do well in this period. Possibly Ospreys as they'll have a strong pack available. I wonder what team may look like now?

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Post by Brendan on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:31 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Scarlets' team probably looks a bit different to how I envisioned it at the start of this thread. If they improve from their pre-season game then they're going to be one of the ones to do well. Otherwise, Edinburgh and Ulster will do well in this period. Possibly Ospreys as they'll have a strong pack available. I wonder what team may look like now?

While there still will be call ups Ulster I think are in a better shape than expected due to all the 50/50 calls going against them in the WC squad. Those players will also have a point to prove.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 11:35 pm

Were any of their new recruits called up, like that Aussie lock forward? He would be handy during this period.

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Post by Kingshu on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 7:14 pm

Neutral referee appointments have been confirmed for the first six rounds of the Guinness PRO14 as the new season kicks off this weekend.
All seven appointments for Round 1, which have been made by Elite Referee Manager, Greg Garner, are neutral and this will continue right up to Round 6.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 24 Sep 2019, 8:24 pm

A good start. Fair play to the league. Be interesting to see how easy it is to maintain that.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:54 pm

As far as I know it was always the plan for this season.  Having the one broadcaster doing all the games must help with getting the TMO all the stuff they need regardless of where they actually are.

I guess it's another nail taken out of the league coffin.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 11:02 pm

Definitely.

Great for me that Munster v Dragons is on freesport this weekend. Saves a subscription for one game, but will definitely be subscribing again on 1 October.

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Post by Brendan on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 2:44 pm

https://m.sport24.co.za/Rugby/PRO14/rassie-pro14-one-of-toughest-comps-in-the-world-20190926

Rassie singing the praise of the league and that for a coach it is much harder than SR because each team plays their own style. Also says the players grow because they have to make more decisions during the game because each game is different.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 3:13 pm

Great praise indeed clap
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Post by Brendan on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:03 pm

The Oracle wrote:Great praise indeed clap

It is nice indeed. It's nice he was happy to talk about it as some coaches would tell the report they only want to talk about the WC.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:37 pm

Very positive. Good stuff.

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Post by carpet baboon on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 9:24 pm

Has to be said Rassie comes across as a bloody good bloke.
Was listening to one of the podcast this week ( thing it was the joe.ie one but could have been the 42) they were saying he's extremely nice but absolutely ruthless. He knows exactly what he wants and knows how to position himself to get it. But still manages to liked by everyone.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 02 Nov 2019, 5:23 pm

Cheetahs get two LBP’s in their last two away games. They arguably should have won the first one were it not for some dodgy refereeing - the Pro14 reffing hasn’t been good at all thus far, but what’s new? Anyway, Cheetahs are genuine contenders for a play-off IMO.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:54 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50339697

BBC does a deal to show Pro14 Highlights

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 11:51 am

LondonTiger wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50339697

BBC does a deal to show Pro14 Highlights

I was reading this last night, I wonder why this is now happening ?

Might I have been talking the truth regarding this whole debacle, and that I have not had my head in the sand ?


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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 1:14 pm

Or they realised that they have such a gash product in the Welsh Premiership, that they decided to do anything to show Wales' professional teams in some form.

Maybe people without their heads in the sand could explain why they would want or need to show a highlights show, when there is apparently such little interest in the Pro 14?

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Post by Brendan on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 3:03 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50339697

BBC does a deal to show Pro14 Highlights

I was reading this last night, I wonder why this is now happening ?

Might I have been talking the truth regarding this whole debacle, and that I have not had my head in the sand ?


CEO said that viewing figures now is about the same as what it was.

As others have said probably BBC discovered less people wanted the Premership. And lets be honest if people didn't want to watch the Regions because it wasn't their local team why would they want to watch the Prem if their team isn't in it

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 3:23 pm

Both excellent points Pro 14 2019/2020 Season - Page 5 1347041234

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 4:51 pm

No point paying for it during the WC, when Scrum V would be dominated by Wales/RWC chat. You're paying for something that would only be one third of the show, at best.

This is good though. They've recognised/admitted that it needs to be on free to air TV.

I'd also imagine the Pro14 accepts it's not much good charging people to watch games...if people aren't actually paying to get behind the paywall. Little doubt that it needed this, there's not enough interest in the league to stick it behind a paywall.

Whatever Erasmus says from a coaching/playing perspective, the league is going back in standard as a competition relative to England in particular. They were arguably on par in 13/14, with the Pro12/Magners maybe being the better compettion a few years before that. Now it's no contest.

Good that it's happened.

One change that would be good to see is a genuine online presence. The highlights packages online are atrocious. Reading the comments section on youtube is hilarious, it's just people ripping in to them over and over.

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 4:58 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
Brendan wrote:
Kingshu wrote:I think SA will replace the 2 that leave with Pumas and Griquas moving up to super rugby the 8 teams will also play the currie cup. Makes two bigger and two smaller teams on each comp.

The renegoations for Super Rugby will be interesting to see what is written in about teams.  Super Rugby is now at best on par with the HC.  Unless they up the money per team the drain will speed up.

A little generous there.  Super Rugby is nowhere near the standard of the HC.  I would argue all three domestic leagues (Top 14, Pro14 and Aviva Prem) are all better leagues in terms of quality. The stand out thing I have taken from Super rugby is they just don't defend well in that league.  If you put the Crusaders into the HC they wouldn't have a chance of winning it.

One thing is clear - a demise at this level will harm SH rugby at international level potentially on a permanent basis.  We are already seeing this being reflected in the world rankings.  Its only going to get worse moving forward as well. Top 14 are now recruiting actively at Academy level as the overseas player rules come into affect so I can see the best talent in world rugby all heading to French academies.

Pro 14 2019/2020 Season - Page 5 Source

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Post by miaow on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 5:05 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
Brendan wrote:From the great paper wales on-line when interviewing Martin Anayi about the move to Premier Sport.  As we all know Wales On-line always has the truth

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-rugby-pro14-league-team-16824821

You don’t make the switch from mainly free to pay overnight. If you do, you will see a significant drop off. We haven’t. Overall our viewership is broadly the same from pre-Premier deal to now. We have held that viewership and we have brought in more money.

But I'm sure we were told, multiple times, that that would not happen, that fans would turn away, that rugby would be lost and become a minor sport like squash.

Guarantee that if you saw the figures you'd realise 'broadly the same' is deliberately vague nonsense.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 8:39 am

RiscaGame wrote:Or they realised that they have such a gash product in the Welsh Premiership, that they decided to do anything to show Wales' professional teams in some form.

Maybe people without their heads in the sand could explain why they would want or need to show a highlights show, when there is apparently such little interest in the Pro 14?


Laugh

You do realise, that the league went to the BBC, not the other way around don't you ?

You do realise they are doing this to drum up some interest ?

You do realise that perhaps the league needs a little bit more exposure ?

All the things I have been talking about on here since they made the stupid decision to put the Pro14 on a sports channel that nobody wants to pay for.

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Post by miaow on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 9:12 am

If we see a better try than this all season we'll have seen at least 2 of the greatest tries this sport has ever produced...

https://twitter.com/PRO14Official/status/1193255596767764480

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Post by Brendan on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 11:26 am

miaow wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
Brendan wrote:From the great paper wales on-line when interviewing Martin Anayi about the move to Premier Sport.  As we all know Wales On-line always has the truth

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-rugby-pro14-league-team-16824821

You don’t make the switch from mainly free to pay overnight. If you do, you will see a significant drop off. We haven’t. Overall our viewership is broadly the same from pre-Premier deal to now. We have held that viewership and we have brought in more money.

But I'm sure we were told, multiple times, that that would not happen, that fans would turn away, that rugby would be lost and become a minor sport like squash.

Guarantee that if you saw the figures you'd realise 'broadly the same' is deliberately vague nonsense.

Broadly means roughly so no one is saying the same figure. But it's not the cliff foretold by some posters. If it's 75% in Wales and Scotland it is a good place to start from. The Pro14 package I think is great and will help the league. Use to love the Seria A one back in the 90s.

Ospreys losing to the Kings and current abasyal form will do more to the club than any TV deal

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 1:47 pm

What I find strange is, where is all this evidence that the viewing figures are not far off what they used to be on the BEEB ?

Why can't they be made readily available for us all to see ?

I think all these comments about viewing figures on PS is all smoke and mirrors. If it was so good, then why are the league asking BBC to do a highlights show ?

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Post by Brendan on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 3:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What I find strange is, where is all this evidence that the viewing figures are not far off what they used to be on the BEEB ?

Why can't they be made readily available for us all to see ?

I think all these comments about viewing figures on PS is all smoke and mirrors. If it was so good, then why are the league asking BBC to do a highlights show ?

You would assume the league are doing it for more money. BBC are doing it for more viewers I'd suspect.

The viewers will watch as they aren't too interested in the semi pro clubs I guess

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Post by miaow on Mon 11 Nov 2019, 7:01 pm

There is no way there's been a 75% retention rate. More like 25% if not lower.

They're going to be using the free to air games and stuff to bolster the numbers. Guarantee the viewing rate is about 10% of what it was.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 1:22 am

Is there any actual substance to this tale, that the League specifically asked BBC to show highlights? I haven’t even seen it mentioned in the Welsh Rugby bible, WOL?

How does a FTA highlights show prove that match coverage isn’t working?

What’s the point in a highlights show in Wales, when “there’s no appetite” for the Pro 14?

How many times can somebody regurgitate the same argument?

Did Delme and his Thai restaurant enjoy the highlights shows?

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 9:33 am

miaow wrote:There is no way there's been a 75% retention rate. More like 25% if not lower.

They're going to be using the free to air games and stuff to bolster the numbers. Guarantee the viewing rate is about 10% of what it was.

Yes, this is what I would wager as well.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 9:47 am

LordDowlais wrote:What I find strange is, where is all this evidence that the viewing figures are not far off what they used to be on the BEEB ?

Why can't they be made readily available for us all to see ?

I think all these comments about viewing figures on PS is all smoke and mirrors. If it was so good, then why are the league asking BBC to do a highlights show ?

Because it's none of your business ?

Interestingly there have been no comparisons for viewing figures from the English Premiership since they moved from Sky to BT either - same for the "new improved and much more shiny" European competitions - e.g. BT didn't show any of the ERC Challenge Cup games during the group stages.

I'll lay good odds that the viewing figures for the C5 highlights programme are higher than the BT live ones, so well done to the PRO14 for realising that there is a demand for FTA rugby as well as PPV - I presume it'll be a version of the PRO14 hour that currently shows on Freesports.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 9:57 am

Premiership Rugby provide highlights of matches on their website within a few hours of the game finishing, with full match video available usually the day after a game. Is the same available for Pro14?

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Tue 12 Nov 2019, 3:21 pm

Yeah the pro14 tv app has highlights up within hours and full replays up within a day or two.However it's terribly advertised ,I only stumbled across it last week and I've no idea how long the app has been up and running.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 6:05 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50453217

Deal confirmed. Interesting perspective from Gareth Davies chairman. The money goes to the Union first, and if the regions are lucky they'll get some scraps. Realistically, the regions needs all that money on top of their yearly funding to help get them out of the well.


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Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 8:03 pm

Depends a lot if the unions go for a quick fix, like buying in lots of expensive players to bolster their ranks (this applies to Scotland as much as any of the other countries benefitting) or look for some longer term ways of benefitting.

Lots of people in Scotland might be clamouring for a third team for example, but at 10 million or so a year to run a successful team, that could mean the funds being gone in a couple of years, so that is not going to happen.

I would like to see the SRU clear its debt and use the income from this surplus to buld up the foiundations of the game, the new Super 6 seems to have gotten off to a decent start and is actually pulling in crowds of 1000 plus, which is probably a lot better than was originally hoped.

As far as the WRU is concerned, I would really like them to start to commit to the Pro 14 as a competition. The whole competition would be so much better if the Welsh teams could be as strong as they should be, Ospreys should not be getting spanked at home by Munster in the way that they did yesterday and in reality, none of us were surprised that it happened.

wales need to balance their spending commitments and hopefully this money windfall might encourage them to drop their 4th AI as a starting point and concentrate on the club fixtures which are very important, if not now, then certainly in the longer term.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 9:29 pm

It would be a good idea to direct funding to the academies, but some teams require a host of new players and coaches. Also any team can benefit from high profile signings in a number of ways. It remains to be seen. 

Scotland do need a third team in my opinion, because the depth isn’t quite there at international level.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 9:51 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:

Scotland do need a third team in my opinion, because the depth isn’t quite there at international level.

Don't disagree with that, but until we have an area of Scotland where there is a market for a professional team, it should not and won't happen.

Maybe the new semi pro league might lead to it, but still along way off.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 17 Nov 2019, 11:48 pm

It seems that reinstating the Borders is the most logical idea, although not exactly sure what the demand is there. Aberdeen? Has a high population.

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Post by miaow on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:24 am

That is good news for the Super 6, fair play. Decent crowds. You have to create pathways and systems within rugby, you can't just have what Wales do which is one big monolithic national team that everyone cares about, and then really fractured supply lines that are circumnavigated by the academy and representative systems. Schools or clubs, or both - get fans in, get an infrastructure, and you'll improve rugby on and off the field. Something that's lost from the commercially minded approach.

That said, I think the commercial work being done in rugby is pretty good - you have to build it and make it profitable and lucrative to get the best athletes from all over the world to want to play it. American sports stars are paid an insane amount of money - if you look at the womens' football team there, and the (ridiculous, let's be honest) clamour to be paid the same as men, there's a general attitude that you have to make sport pay (very) well for it to work in the modern, American-style, broadcast world sport lives or dies in today.

With CVC, there's a real worry of Ireland being 'the' nation that is cared about - a continuation of what we've seen for the last few years - and if they don't live up to the hype, Ireland becoming second fiddle to England, as CVC also has a major stake in the Prem. Which leaves Scotland and Wales as effectively third in terms of priorities, with the Italians and Saffers a distant fourth, all in the name of competing with the French and, possibly, Japanese leagues, that seem the most commercially viable. The main thing in 'our' general favour is the Anglosphere, and the fact the world is still primarily English-speaking. It played a big part in the Premiership/now Premier League's success, even if there was also a lot of commercial work done, to surpass Serie A. I think we'd all like to see a return to national leagues and then some form or British & Irish Super Rugby style league system. CVC makes that possible, I think.


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Post by miaow on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 7:47 am

p.s. I wouldn't add a third team to Scotland. They're doing ok for two. You pick English based players, which works for you. There are enough project players or heritage Scots in the Scotland team - from WP Nel to the likes of Sam Skinner down in Exeter - to see that talent isn't behind held back, and the concentration of 'quality' compared to room for opportunity looks about right with two teams.

Wales needs to sort out the club game, become less traditional/historical, allow some clubs to effectively slide down the ladder, and restructure the league system. They could also start by bringing rugby back to schools in a much better way, and there are huge swathes of the country that are underrepresented, with poor pathway systems unless your parents/club pushes hard to get you in the awareness of the right people. Scottish rugby has a heartland, and it also has the public school system. Wales doesn't have the latter - you need fewer people to create ability when you have very good resources that comes through good schooling.

I have no idea where the money should go in Wales. Grassroots, obviously, with about half to help the regions out with marquee signings and bringing back players like Liam Williams.

Ultimately the regions need to be solvent. The Ospreys have gone from 15k crowds to 5k in 10 years. Swansea City sees the Liberty sold out every fortnight. Doesn't take a genius to see club football is valued higher than club rugby in Wales, even in the so-called 'heartlands'. Need to make club rugby mean something again. That means keeping clubs alive, but having the proper level of competition and pathway system for it to happen. Merthyr is the exact opposite of what should be happening below the regions.

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Post by TJ on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 8:20 am

miaow wrote:.............................
This is good though. They've recognised/admitted that it needs to be on free to air TV.

............................
Whatever Erasmus says from a coaching/playing perspective, the league is going back in standard as a competition relative to England in particular. They were arguably on par in 13/14, with the Pro12/Magners maybe being the better compettion a few years before that. Now it's no contest.

..............................

European cup results don't agree.


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Post by miaow on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:02 am

After the first round? In a RWC year where Scotland and Ireland bowed out 'early'? When the leagues demand completely different 'schedules' in terms of opposition (i.e. far more 'gimmes' in Celtic league v Prem).

Let's hang back on that one, shall we...

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:35 am

This deal that the Pro14 have agreed with CVC is another step in the direction of a B&I league.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:23 am

miaow wrote:After the first round? In a RWC year where Scotland and Ireland bowed out 'early'? When the leagues demand completely different 'schedules' in terms of opposition (i.e. far more 'gimmes' in Celtic league v Prem).

Let's hang back on that one, shall we...

France left the same time as Ireland and the PIs and Georgia left the same time as Scotland

Of teams to lose 9+ players or the WC (original squads) Prem had one, T14 3 and Pro 14 8.
By league Pro 14 118, T14 78, Prem 74

After the battles for playoff places for the last few years (and number of Pro14 teams in European knockout) how an you say the league is poor in match ups. With Dragons and Kings improving playing any team away in the Pro 14 is hard

Teams like Scarlets and Edinburgh going from HC playing well to not even in it. It's a dog eat dog world as much as the other two leagues

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:29 am

LordDowlais wrote:This deal that the Pro14 have agreed with CVC is another step in the direction of a B&I league.

It can't come too soon. This Pro14 muck is killing the game in Wales. The WRU are sharing their CVC money with the club game and women's game! Unbelievable.

This is what happens when Unions have their disgusting fingers in the pro domestic game.

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Post by miaow on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:37 am

Brendan wrote:
miaow wrote:After the first round? In a RWC year where Scotland and Ireland bowed out 'early'? When the leagues demand completely different 'schedules' in terms of opposition (i.e. far more 'gimmes' in Celtic league v Prem).

Let's hang back on that one, shall we...

France left the same time as Ireland and the PIs and Georgia left the same time as Scotland

Of teams to lose 9+ players or the WC (original squads) Prem had one, T14 3 and Pro 14 8.
By league Pro 14 118, T14 78, Prem 74

After the battles for playoff places for the last few years (and number of Pro14 teams in European knockout) how an you say the league is poor in match ups.  With Dragons and Kings improving playing any team away in the Pro 14 is hard

Teams like Scarlets and Edinburgh going from HC playing well to not even in it.  It's a dog eat dog world as much as the other two leagues

The French league is regressive, though, playing a backwards kind of rugby. I don't think anyone would argue that. It relies on imports from SANZAR and the South Pacific to give it the bulk and flair that, apparently, keeps the paying public entertained. As entities, they're not overly competitive, and have lost the dominance the likes of Clermont and Toulon had a few years ago as well. Either way, the French teams are probably less impacted by their national team than any of the other 4 nations, and Italy, if you want to make it 5. Their national side is an afterthought, still (I wrote this having skimmed your numbers - interesting to see the Prem lost fewer players to the RWC, but in many ways not surprising.) I think rather than gross figures, it would be more interesting to see which nations the players at the RWC came from - there's going to be absolutely loads of Islanders in France, quite a few in England etc. For the most part, there will be a higher concentration of homegrown players in the Pro14. Lots more work would need to be done on those stats to make any sort of analysis, really.

Either way, the 'best' Irish and Scottish teams are packed full of their test stars. So too for Sarries in England, but the likes of Exeter and Bath will have been hurt by call ups as well. The Ospreys are clearly a great example of how not having RWC players back does to a team's competitiveness, which is clearly truer in the Pro14 than Eng/Fra.

We've had one round of rugby. I fail to see how it discounts anything I've said about league structures, player freshness/representation, and how stupid it is to use one round of rugby to draw conclusions.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 10:56 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This deal that the Pro14 have agreed with CVC is another step in the direction of a B&I league.

It can't come too soon. This Pro14 muck is killing the game in Wales.  The WRU are sharing their CVC money with the club game and women's game! Unbelievable.

This is what happens when Unions have their disgusting fingers in the pro domestic game.

TBH, I would be vary wary of throwing more money at the regions, not until they are run properly. If I was in charge of the WRU, I would not be throwing good money at bad money. The regions are in a mess, because they are badly run.Until this is sorted out, I would be vary wary if I was investing.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 11:13 am

LordDowlais wrote:This deal that the Pro14 have agreed with CVC is another step in the direction of a B&I league.

I'd hope it would be but it'll be hard for the English teams - you'd presume it would have to end the prospect of promotion from the Championship which would cause all sorts of problems with the RFU and on the PRO14 side what happens to the Italians and Saffer teams?

Maybe a three division league of ten teams with the more ambitious Championship sides and the Italian and SA sides added?

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Post by miaow on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 11:14 am

It would be more like the creation of anoter Super League 'on top' of existing structures, I would have thought. Cannot see the Pro14 agreeing to effectively disband on the basis of CVC owning 1/4 of the league.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 11:18 am

LordDowlais wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:This deal that the Pro14 have agreed with CVC is another step in the direction of a B&I league.

It can't come too soon. This Pro14 muck is killing the game in Wales.  The WRU are sharing their CVC money with the club game and women's game! Unbelievable.

This is what happens when Unions have their disgusting fingers in the pro domestic game.

TBH, I would be vary wary of throwing more money at the regions, not until they are run properly. If I was in charge of the WRU, I would not be throwing good money at bad money. The regions are in a mess, because they are badly run.Until this is sorted out, I would be vary wary if I was investing.

How exactly are they badly run? They're getting record levels of sponsorship.

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