Your nation's XV in your formative years

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:50 am

So which poster on here has had the best/worst team to support in their formative years?

I think I’ve had one of the worst. I was born in 1987 so was too young to witness the Grand Slams of 1984 and 1990 and, although the 1999 5 Nations win is my first rugby memory, I was too young to really appreciate its significance. Conversely I’m not young enough such that the relative success over the last 5 years seems like the norm.

Nope – I went through the dark, dark days of the noughties where the Scotland team was pretty awful, with multiple wooden spoons to their names. As a young back my ‘heroes’ to look up to were the likes of Dan Parks, Graeme Morrison, Hugo Southwell etc…

Yes we had some great individuals like Simon Taylor, Jason White, Nathan Hines, Chris Paterson etc but they were surrounded by rank average players who left the Scotland team pretty uninspiring for someone like me to follow in their teens and early 20s.

So let’s find out how had an easy life growing up with Grand Slam Winning teams and who wins the wooden spoon for worst.team.ever.

Here’s what we’re going to do:

- Try and remind yourself what year you left school
- Do a bit of Googling to find the results from the 5N/6N that year
- Select your home nation XV from one of those games that best represents the team that you grew up supporting!


p.s. this thread is not meant to be serious so any attempts at Wumming or dragging it down will be quickly deleted OK

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:54 am

So here's mine from 2005 - we came second last thanks to beating Italy 18-10, with all points coming from Patterson's boot. We scored only 8 tries in that tournament, 6 of which came from heavy defeats to Wales and England when the game was all but gone anyway

Scotland: C Paterson; S Webster, A Craig, H Southwell, S Lamont; D Parks, C Cusiter; T Smith, G Bulloch (capt), G Kerr; S Grimes, S Murray; S Taylor, J Petrie, A Hogg.
Replacements: R Russell, B Douglas, N Hines, J Dunbar, M Blair, G Ross, B Hinshelwood.

I think this is a prime example of what I grew up with - competitive enough pack but truly awful back. A midfield of Parks-Southwell-Craig with Hugo out of position. Come on!!

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:10 am

Yes, Scotland have had some dark era's, but I would wager the one you are in now is the worst.

From my point of view, it has to be the late 80's to late 90's where all the best Welsh players were being poached by rugby league, we had lost two generations of players to league, and it floored us.

We lost the likes of Jiffy, Dai Young, the Moriarty brothers, the Ford brothers, Jonathan Griffiths, Scott Gibbs, Scot Quinell, Alan Bateman, I could go on. Even the second best players were being poached.

We ended up capping seriously under prepared players, like Byron Haywood. The results were Wales getting their first ever wooden spoon, with a few more to follow, getting beaten by 90 odd points out in Pretoria to South Africa, record losses to all our 6N counterparts.

One hi-light we had in 1994 where we won the 6N against all the odds, with a very young side, and what happened ? Yep you guessed it RL vultures came and took all the best players from that title winning side.

It was getting to the point, where I was scared to pick up a newspaper as the back pages always had headlines of a player being approached by a rugby league club. As soon as we unearthed a gem, the vultures were circling.

Then Graham Henry came, and filled us with professional foreign imports with shady attachments to Wales just to try and get us on an even keel, then union became pro, and some of the players came back, but we were not really competitive until at least 2003, so that is almost a quarter of a century of r*** and pillaging by league, and record losses, yes it was a bad time for myself, and Welsh rugby as a whole. Sad

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:22 am

Just to add on top of this, I remember us being decent in the mid 80's, but I was far too young to appreciate it, but for me, this and now is the best time I have supported Wales, although the 2005 Grand slam was my favourite, as it was my first to witness, but I have to admit, going on this run, which is better than Graham Henry's run, and being ranked 2nd in the world, does give me a good feeling of satisfaction.

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:24 am

LordDowlais wrote:Yes, Scotland have had some dark era's, but I would wager the one you are in now is the worst.

From my point of view, it has to be the late 80's to late 90's where all the best Welsh players were being poached by rugby league, we had lost two generations of players to league, and it floored us.

We lost the likes of Jiffy, Dai Young, the Moriarty brothers, the Ford brothers, Jonathan Griffiths, Scott Gibbs, Scot Quinell, Alan Bateman, I could go on. Even the second best players were being poached.

We ended up capping seriously under prepared players, like Byron Haywood. The results were Wales getting their first ever wooden spoon, with a few more to follow, getting beaten by 90 odd points out in Pretoria to South Africa, record losses to all our 6N counterparts.

One hi-light we had in 1994 where we won the 6N against all the odds, with a very young side, and what happened ? Yep you guessed it RL vultures came and took all the best players from that title winning side.

It was getting to the point, where I was scared to pick up a newspaper as the back pages always had headlines of a player being approached by a rugby league club. As soon as we unearthed a gem, the vultures were circling.

Then Graham Henry came, and filled us with professional foreign imports with shady attachments to Wales just to try and get us on an even keel, then union became pro, and some of the players came back, but we were not really competitive until at least 2003, so that is almost a quarter of a century of r*** and pillaging by league, and record losses, yes it was a bad time for myself, and Welsh rugby as a whole. Sad

Headscratch

I'm generally a pessimistic Scotland fan but I've got to say that is a hell of a peculiar statement! 2000-2010 were dark times for Scottish rugby, both the International team and club teams. Conversely in the last 5 years we've picked up some big wins as a National team and Glasgow have won the Pro 12/14 and been runners up. Some of our players play for the biggest clubs in the world in Racing, Clermont and Saracens. We've not won anything at International level but we are vastly better than we were in that noughties period.

The youth of today have never had it so good!

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:58 am

RDW wrote:I'm generally a pessimistic Scotland fan but I've got to say that is a hell of a peculiar statement!

Sorry, I made that statement because I grew up always looking at Scotland as a threat, and during the baron years for Wales, right up until circa 2005/2006 Wales winning at Murrayfield was like finding hens teeth. In fact, nobody liked going up there, as you would mostly come back with a bloody nose.

Yes Glasgow are heavyweights in the Pro14, but that is because you have some decent regional players padded out with decent NSQ players, the national team does not have that luxury.

These days, Murrayfield is not the fortress of years gone by, it is not as daunting as it used to be, Scotland have beaten Wales something like once in ten years, and it's the same as your record against England, and to a lesser extent Ireland.

Without counting Italy, when was the last time Scotland won away in the 6N ?

I remember the team in the 00's with the Leslie brothers, Craig Chalmers, Nicol, Ross Beattie, Jason White, Nathan Hines, Kenny Logan, Gregor Townsend, Glen Mtcalfe, Micheal Blair or am I seeing this through nostalgic eyes ?

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:01 am

You're very much seeing through nostalgic eyes, and a lot of the players you mentioned were in the 1999 5N winning team not the barren 00s era.

As for your 'Murrayfield is not the fortress as days gone by' comment - we recently came to the end of something like a 13 game winning streak at home when we lost to SA last autumn!

Anyway, this thread hasn't got off to the best start given the focus has been on why Scotland are rubbish - the point is to look back at the teams that you grew up with.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:04 am

1980 Grand Slam team is the first I can remember as a not quite teenager. Much of the team I can still name.
After that things were pretty garbage until the re-organisation after the shambles of the 87 world cup. Geoff Cooke brought in a much more professional attitude to the team and selection.

The only thing that livened up the period between the two extremes were seeing people I knew starting to play for England. People I had been to School with and by the end of the decade guys I had played with and against were having an impact at the top level.

However I will never be able to escape the nightmare of John Orwin as England skipper.

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:05 am

Cna you dig up a team sheet from those days LT?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:14 am

England had a terrible run in the 1980s, with a wooden spoon in 1983, and a string of second-last places, and another wooden spoon in 1986.

Between the 1980 England Grand Slam and our 1990 second place (Scotland's Grand Slam), we never won more than 2 out of our 4 Five Nations matches, and often did worse.

There were always talented players around the squad but usually surrounded by others who were once good, but had passed their prime, and a few donkeys. I didn't know enough about rugby at the time to see tactically what we were doing so wrong in matches. I do remember being almost permanently frustrated that Stuart Barnes wasn't being selected at fly half.

Bizarrely, amidst this dross, we managed to beat the All Blacks at Twickenham in 1983.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:22 am

Sadly I was only a few years after you RDW, so I feel like I suffered through the same garbage.

2009 so it was Frank Hadden in charge picard
Although this being said we didn't have a bad front row...

Jacobsen
Ford
Murray
Hines
Kellock/Hamilton
Brown/White
Barclay
S Taylor/A Hogg

Blair (c)
Parks picard

T Evans Sad
Morrison picard
M Evans/De Luca picard
Lamont of the blonde locks and blue gloves gen
Paterson/Southwell/R Lamont

Forwards would probably be competing to be in today's squad (Barclay technically still is).

Backs would be lucky to make it into Edinburgh's backline... Apart from maybe Mike Blair.
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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:32 am

My first game I remember was Wales 10-9 England in 1993. Wales didn't win another game after that and finished rock bottom. The team then was;

WALES: M Rayer (Cardiff); I Evans (Llanelli, capt), S Gibbs (Swansea), M Hall (Cardiff), W Proctor (Llanelli); N Jenkins (Pontypridd), R Jones (Swansea); R Evans (Llanelli), N Meek (Pontypool), H Williams-Jones (South Wales Police), G Llewellyn (Neath), A Copsey, E Lewis (both Llanelli), S Davies, R Webster (both Swansea).

When I left secondary school in 1998, I can't remember a great deal of that tournament, other than Kevin Bowring getting the chop after we got shamed 51-0 by France last game. The next one I remember was 1999, because that was when I started going out for them properly. Of course the most famous result was coming back and beating England at Wembley, but I think my favourite result of that tournament was actually winning in the Stade de France, with the way we played.

15 Shane Howarth, 14 Matthew Robinson, 13 Mark Taylor, 12 Scott Gibbs, 11 Dafydd James, 10 Neil Jenkins, 9 Rob Howley (c), 1 Peter Rogers, 2 Garin Jenkins, 3 Ben Evans, 4 Craig Quinnell, 5 Chris Wyatt, 6 Colin Charvis, 7 Brett Sinkinson, 8 Scott Quinnell.

Replacements
16 Gareth Thomas, 17 Andrew Lewis, 18 David Llewellyn, 19 Mike Voyle, 20 John Davies, 21 Kevin Morgan, 22 Barry Williams

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:36 am

RDW wrote:Cna you dig up a team sheet from those days LT?

Team that beat Scotland to seal the Slam was:

Dusty Hare
John Carelton
Clive Woodward
Paul Dodge
Mike Slemen
John Horton
Steve Smith
John Scott
Tony Neary
Roger Uttley
Mo Colclough
Bill Beaumont
Phil Blakeway
Peter Wheeler
Fran Cotton

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Post by EWT Spoons on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:46 am

Sorry this is becoming a bit Scotland heavy, but I am a few years older than RDW and Nelly, but not massively, so still had the same crap to deal with.

2001 and the team that played Wales that year (no idea why I picked that particular game)

1 Tom Smith
2 Gordon Bulloch
3 Mattie Stewart
4 Scott Murray
5 Richard Metcalfe
6 Martin Leslie
7 Jon Petrie
8 Budge Pountney.
9 Andy Nicol (capt)
10 Duncan Hodge
11 Kenny Logan
12 John Leslie
13 James McLaren
14 Cameron Murray
15 Chris Paterson

Replacements
16 Steve Scott
17 Gordon McIlwham
18 Stuart Grimes
19 Jason White
20 Bryan Redpath
21 Alan Bulloch
22 James Craig

Geech was the coach and we came 3rd, but had the delight of postponed games against Ire.

A lot of quality in places there, and a decent coach.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:47 am

LondonTiger wrote:
RDW wrote:Cna you dig up a team sheet from those days LT?

Team that beat Scotland to seal the Slam was:

Dusty Hare
John Carelton
Clive Woodward
Paul Dodge
Mike Slemen
John Horton
Steve Smith
John Scott
Tony Neary
Roger Uttley
Mo Colclough
Bill Beaumont
Phil Blakeway
Peter Wheeler
Fran Cotton
Wheeler was captain when we beat NZ in 83. The back line was the same as 1980 (except for Nick Youngs at scrum half) and Winterbottom was at openside. Colclough and Scott were still in the pack (Maurice got our try).

It took us too long to overhaul our back line, and the forwards spend most of the eighties as complete strangers to the backs anyway.

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:56 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Sorry this is becoming a bit Scotland heavy, but I am a few years older than RDW and Nelly, but not massively, so still had the same crap to deal with.

2001 and the team that played Wales that year (no idea why I picked that particular game)

1 Tom Smith
2 Gordon Bulloch
3 Mattie Stewart
4 Scott Murray
5 Richard Metcalfe
6 Martin Leslie
7 Jon Petrie
8 Budge Pountney.
9 Andy Nicol (capt)
10 Duncan Hodge
11 Kenny Logan
12 John Leslie
13 James McLaren
14 Cameron Murray
15 Chris Paterson

Replacements
16 Steve Scott
17 Gordon McIlwham
18 Stuart Grimes
19 Jason White
20 Bryan Redpath
21 Alan Bulloch
22 James Craig

Geech was the coach and we came 3rd, but had the delight of postponed games against Ire.

A lot of quality in places there, and a decent coach.

That wasn't too much of a disaster - a transition between the decent team from the late 90s and the dross from the 00s. Worth remembering that lot lost to Italy in their first ever 6N game though!

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:03 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
RDW wrote:Cna you dig up a team sheet from those days LT?

Team that beat Scotland to seal the Slam was:

Dusty Hare
John Carelton
Clive Woodward
Paul Dodge
Mike Slemen
John Horton
Steve Smith
John Scott
Tony Neary
Roger Uttley
Mo Colclough
Bill Beaumont
Phil Blakeway
Peter Wheeler
Fran Cotton
Wheeler was captain when we beat NZ in 83. The back line was the same as 1980 (except for Nick Youngs at scrum half) and Winterbottom was at openside. Colclough and Scott were still in the pack (Maurice got our try).

It took us too long to overhaul our back line, and the forwards spend most of the eighties as complete strangers to the backs anyway.

I remember Rory Underwood scoring a great individual try in what I think was his second game against France. Created from a French mistke I do not think he had received a pass in international rugby at that point. We had some utter dross selections in that 81-88 period and some even worse coaching.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:04 am

Budge Pountney at 8!!!!!!

A decent flanker but no way an 8. I always found how he qualified for Scotland (and Wales) as amusing. Born in Southampton he had a grandparent born in the Channel Isles.

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Post by demosthenes on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:19 am

You children!

I started following Scotland in the late 1970's, which co-incided with a rather poor run of results.

One of the first games I remember attending was v. France in 1980, which ended a run of 13 without a win. The team :

15Andy Irvine, FB
14Steve Munro, W
13Jim Renwick, C
12David Johnston, C
11Bruce Hay, W
10John Rutherford, FH
9Roy Laidlaw, SH
1James Burnett, P
2Colin Deans, H
3Iain Milne, P
4Alan Tomes, L
5David Gray, L
6Mike Biggar, FL
7Alex Brewster, FL
8John Beattie, N8

Some famous names, and great players. One wonders how some of them would have been with the benefit of professional-era support?

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:29 am

demosthenes wrote:You children!

I started following Scotland in the late 1970's, which co-incided with a rather poor run of results.

One of the first games I remember attending was  v. France in 1980, which ended a run of 13 without a win.  The team :

15Andy Irvine, FB
14Steve Munro, W
13Jim Renwick, C
12David Johnston, C
11Bruce Hay, W
10John Rutherford, FH
9Roy Laidlaw, SH
1James Burnett, P
2Colin Deans, H
3Iain Milne, P
4Alan Tomes, L
5David Gray, L
6Mike Biggar, FL
7Alex Brewster, FL
8John Beattie, N8

Some famous names, and great players.  One wonders how some of them would have been with the benefit of professional-era support?

Alright granddad!

Some real famous names there - names my dad would wax lyrical about. I'm sure there's some misty eyed memories blanking a lot of bad memories too with that lot though!

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:29 am

EWT Spoons wrote:Sorry this is becoming a bit Scotland heavy, but I am a few years older than RDW and Nelly, but not massively, so still had the same crap to deal with.

2001 and the team that played Wales that year (no idea why I picked that particular game)

1 Tom Smith
2 Gordon Bulloch
3 Mattie Stewart
4 Scott Murray
5 Richard Metcalfe
6 Martin Leslie
7 Jon Petrie
8 Budge Pountney.
9 Andy Nicol (capt)
10 Duncan Hodge
11 Kenny Logan
12 John Leslie
13 James McLaren
14 Cameron Murray
15 Chris Paterson

Replacements
16 Steve Scott
17 Gordon McIlwham
18 Stuart Grimes
19 Jason White
20 Bryan Redpath
21 Alan Bulloch
22 James Craig

Geech was the coach and we came 3rd, but had the delight of postponed games against Ire.

A lot of quality in places there, and a decent coach.

Yes that's almost the team that went to the world cup as well, I still have memories of Bill Mclaren calling out those names, there are a few Lions in there as well. I do not know if it is just a case of Wales being a lot better now than they were back then, but Scotland were always a tougher nut to crack back then than they are now. Just saying.

Anyway, of all the home nations, none can ever claim to have had as dark a time as when we(Wales) lost all those players to league. It also coincided with England and France getting their acts together, it was a double jeopardy for me. Sad

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:46 am

1964 I was in my first year of university it was a really tight five nations apart from a resounding win over Ireland. Fiji had toured and a brilliant game was played in Cardiff that a few of us attended and the singing seemed to go on forever.  A drawn five nations with scotland think we drew with France and England but had beaten Scotland and Ireland well. We had some really great players in the team, Rowlands, Ken Jones, Dai Watkins. Then we toured South Africa and got pummled in the heat and altitude....

15 Graham Hodgson
14 David Weaver
13 Ken Jones
12 John Dawes
11 Dewi Bebb
10 Dai Watkins
9 Clive Rowlands
1 Len Cunningham
2 Norman Gale
3 Denzel Williams
4 Brian Price
5 Brian Thomas
6 Alan Thomas
7 John Mantle
8 Alun Pask

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Post by RDW on Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:01 pm

maestegmafia wrote:1964 I was in my first year of university it was a really tight five nations apart from a resounding win over Ireland. Fiji had toured and a brilliant game was played in Cardiff that a few of us attended and the singing seemed to go on forever.  A drawn five nations with scotland think we drew with France and England but had beaten Scotland and Ireland well. We had some really great players in the team, Rowlands, Ken Jones, Dai Watkins. Then we toured South Africa and got pummled in the heat and altitude....

15 Graham Hodgson
14 David Weaver
13 Ken Jones
12 John Dawes
11 Dewi Bebb
10 Dai Watkins
9 Clive Rowlands
1 Len Cunningham
2 Norman Gale
3 Denzel Williams
4 Brian Price
5 Brian Thomas
6 Alan Thomas
7 John Mantle
8 Alun Pask

I had no idea you were that ancient! Very Happy

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:24 pm

I've been googling what year I left school but the stupid interweb doesn't know and neither do I so that's me scuppered at square one.
I was going to Ireland's home matches from a very early age but for the purposes of this thread I'll start when I was only ten.

The 1stXV for the opening game v Scotland in 1978 was:

15 Ensor
14 Grace
13 McKibbin
12 McNaughton
11 McLennan
10 Ward
9 Moloney (c)
8 Duggan
7 Slattery
6 O'Driscoll
5 Spring
4 Keane
3 Fitzpatrick
2 Whelan
1 Orr

That was the only game we won that year, it was downhill all the way. To be entirely honest I cannot remember the side but I do remember thinking Tony Ward was the 2nd coming (well following after Mike Gibson he was). We had a few successes in that era but generally Irish rugby was nothing to write home about if you even felt the urge. We gazed across the Irish sea wondering how we'd ever play as well as everyone in that general direction.

The kids growing up these days have no clue!!

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Post by tigertattie on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:39 pm

In terms of dark eras, it will be a matter of opinion as to who is worse

Wales of the 80s
Ireland of the 90s
Scotland of the 00s
England of the 10s (just so they dont feel left out)

I’d say England of the 80s wales, Ireland and Scotland had a bad 90s. Ireland were resurgent by the millennium, wales dragged that spell out a little into the next decade, scotland a little further still. But glad to see us all firing on all cylinders going into the 2019 RWC.
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Post by Rinsure on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:04 pm

Well, I left school in 1996, but looking at the squad on this page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Five_Nations_Championship_squads#England

I clearly remember matches a long time before that. This is an interesting one, though, with it being the first 5N post-professionalism declaration. There are some big names in there from both eras, with the likes of Carling, Underwood, Guscott and Deano; stalwarts of the amateur days, and Johnson and Dallaglio (amongst others) who went on to be RWC champions in 2003.

England won the 5N that year (1996), on points difference from Scotland. The England team which played in the final game, at home to Ireland, was as follows:

15 FB Mike Catt
14 W Jon Sleightholme
13 C Will Carling (c)
12 C Jerry Guscott
11 W Rory Underwood
10 FH Paul Grayson
9 SH Matt Dawson
1 P Graham Rowntree
2 H Mark Regan
3 P Jason Leonard
4 L Martin Johnson
5 L Garath Archer
6 F Ben Clarke
7 F Lawrence Dallaglio
8 N8 Dean Richards

16 F Tim Rodber
17 C Phil de Glanville
18 Jon Callard
19 Kyran Bracken
20 Victor Ubogu
21 Graham Dawe

The first games I remember are from way earlier, around the '84 / '85 era.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:20 pm

tigertattie wrote:In terms of dark eras, it will be a matter of opinion as to who is worse

Wales of the 80s
Ireland of the 90s
Scotland of the 00s
England of the 10s (just so they dont feel left out)

I'd say 20 years with nothing to show for it since is pretty low! We're only just on the path to recovery really, and even then we're not consistent at all levels!

I'd like to think that Scotland have just been sandbagging until the 2019 RWC which they will win in a massive shock that shakes the world of rugby. That being said, I had that same dream in 2015 and 2011.
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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:23 pm

My first ever away game, proper as an adult'ish, was Ireland away in 1994. All the talk was about Eric Elwood, and how he was going to be the catalyst for the Irish win, but for a young Neil Jenkins to score all Wales's points a try and 4 pens, Eric Elwood had the chance to win it right at the end but missed the penalty. This was the Wales side:-

15 FB
Tony Clement
14 W
Ieuan Evans (c)
13 C
Mike Hall
12 C
Nigel Davies
11 W
Wayne Proctor
10 FH
Neil Jenkins
9 SH
Rupert Moon
1 P
Ricky Evans
2 H
Garin Jenkins
3 P
John Davies
4 L
Phil Davies
5 L
Gareth Llewellyn
6 F
Emyr Lewis
7 F
Mark Perego
8 N8
Scott Quinnell
Replacements
16 W
Simon Hill
17 FB
Mike Rayer
18 SH
Robert Jones
21
Robin McBryde
21
Hugh Williams-Jones
21
Tony Copsey

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Post by Mr Bounce on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:07 pm

I first started watching rugby wen I was about 11/12 (84 ish) and remember (vaguely) such players as Les Cusworth (who looked like our Milkman), Dusty Hare, Steve Bainbridge and the early days of Peter Winterbottom. Oh, and some bloke called Woodward? I didn't pay much attention as I was at school and more interested in playing rugby which we won, than watching International Rugby, which we tended to lose.

I only started getting back into watching the international game in about 90/91, so a typical Grand Slam team of 91 was as follows:

1.  Leonard
2.  Moore
3.  Probyn
4.  Ackford
5.  Dooley
6.  Teague
7.  Winterbottom
8.  Richards
9.  Hill
10. Andrew
11. Underwood
12. Guscott
13. Carling (c)
14. Heslop
15. Hodgkinson

16. Morris
17. Rendall
18. Skinner
19. Halliday
20. Webb
21. Olver

It was a good time to be an Englishman, although I did feel that Andrew was often selected too much over others and the team did spend a lot of time relying on the boots of Hodgkinson and Webb plus the try scoring of seemingly no-one else but Underwood and Carling. They weren't exciting, but they were effective.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:24 pm

87 winning World cup side easily for me. Complete array of skills, Leadership, coaching, full 15 man rugby, and several greats.

Winning margin of 20 minimum throughout. Massive individual (JK Italy try and tackle on Evans semi) and team efforts.

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Post by Pot Hale on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:51 pm

First test match I attended was ‘69/70 in Lansdowne. My only memory of matches in the seventies was Wales, bloody Wales, and their absolute wizardry - nothing compares since - they were fantastic.

I left school the year Ireland won another test tour in Australia in 1979. They won a few things in the following years. And then there was the dreaded nineties when we couldn’t win against nobody.

God - we were absolute shiite. And then IRFU got their act together, Eddie arrived and the transformation in the last two decades has been stunning for the game overall in the country, considering what it’s up against with the dominance and popularity of GAA.
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Post by maestegmafia on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:58 pm

RDW wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:1964 I was in my first year of university it was a really tight five nations apart from a resounding win over Ireland. Fiji had toured and a brilliant game was played in Cardiff that a few of us attended and the singing seemed to go on forever.  A drawn five nations with scotland think we drew with France and England but had beaten Scotland and Ireland well. We had some really great players in the team, Rowlands, Ken Jones, Dai Watkins. Then we toured South Africa and got pummled in the heat and altitude....

15 Graham Hodgson
14 David Weaver
13 Ken Jones
12 John Dawes
11 Dewi Bebb
10 Dai Watkins
9 Clive Rowlands
1 Len Cunningham
2 Norman Gale
3 Denzel Williams
4 Brian Price
5 Brian Thomas
6 Alan Thomas
7 John Mantle
8 Alun Pask

I had no idea you were that ancient! Very Happy

Decrepit is the term I would use mostly mate...

maestegmafia
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Post by highland_scot on Thu Jul 11, 2019 4:40 pm

I was going to do mine, but basically it's this. I was thinking Danielli and Walker on the wings for extra crapness. Sad

NeilyBroon wrote:Sadly I was only a few years after you RDW, so I feel like I suffered through the same garbage.

2009 so it was Frank Hadden in charge picard
Although this being said we didn't have a bad front row...

Jacobsen
Ford
Murray
Hines
Kellock/Hamilton
Brown/White
Barclay
S Taylor/A Hogg

Blair (c)
Parks picard

T Evans Sad
Morrison picard
M Evans/De Luca picard
Lamont of the blonde locks and blue gloves gen
Paterson/Southwell/R Lamont

Forwards would probably be competing to be in today's squad (Barclay technically still is).

Backs would be lucky to make it into Edinburgh's backline... Apart from maybe Mike Blair.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:49 am

Was lucky enough to watch Gavin Hastings in Auckland club rugby in 84 when he helped them win the Gallagher Shield (Aucks main club trophy) with University. Saw him play against Grammar and there were All blacks from the 87 WCup side galore in those two sides...Foxy, John Drake (RIP), the Whettons, Fitzy and a few others so he was certainly in with a good crowd. No idea how he ended up playing there...

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