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Post by carpet baboon on Fri 12 Jul 2019, 12:00 pm

First topic message reminder :

Bit early i know.
Will update squads etc once they are announced.
And add the fixtures when I get a spare 10 mins.

Will Addison has been called up to the training squad


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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 12:25 pm

rodders wrote:If Bowe is overrated then there must be plenty of players thanking their lucky stars they even got professional contracts.

In the air he's overrated. Indeed, Ireland inc as a whole have been overrated as in-the-air experts. Makes me give a wry smile often when I hear it even still about how good we can be in the air. We can be normal standard for a top international side. Just normal. Not bad, not exceptionally good.
Kearney for a year or two in his prime, when he just operated on a sixth sense and always managed to jump higher, be correctly directly under, didn't overreach etc. He was pretty exceptional at the art. But even he fell off his high standards, as perhaps is inevitable.
Anyway, Bowe was still a pretty good and fine player. But.........

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Post by PredictorofTeams on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm

Heya lads, just posted my first blog , would appreciate a read and any feedback. It’s an analysis of what goes into Joe Schmidt’s squad selection, gameplan and his similarities with moneyball baseball coach, Billy Beane. Anyway, if you have a chance give it a look. Cheers boys.

https://moneyrugby.wixsite.com/moneyrugby/post/quiz-are-you-a-fan-or-just-obsessed

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:15 pm

Nice piece, thanks for that. Makes for interesting reading. 60% possession average is pretty impressive isnt? The Irish management do take a very analytical approach to the game which has been fun to witness for rugby nerds like myself.

I think you are spot on in your assessment of how Schmidt has target certain areas of the game such as ruck dominance and discipline as a platform to build his game around however, I'm not sure that necessarily means that there is a total ban on creativity and risk.

Good piece though, my only criticism would be that its too short.

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Post by rodders on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 3:37 pm

PredictorofTeams wrote:Heya lads, just posted my first blog , would appreciate a read and any feedback. It’s an analysis of what goes into Joe Schmidt’s squad selection, gameplan and his similarities with moneyball baseball coach, Billy Beane. Anyway, if you have a chance give it a look. Cheers boys.

https://moneyrugby.wixsite.com/moneyrugby/post/quiz-are-you-a-fan-or-just-obsessed

Yup love it, spot on with the moneyball comparison.
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Post by Taylorman on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:22 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:What I will say is that Ireland do not go wide as much as other sides but that is not because they do not have good backs. Murray and Sexton on form are as good as it gets in world rugby. Centres are strong, Henshaw and Aki with Farrell and Ringrose as backup is formidable. On the wing Stockdale is one of if not the top try scoring wingers in world rugby in the last couple of years and Conway and Earls also have good records. Kearney tends to have a fairly technical role than being an attacker. However, by and large backs are very good.

Well forever the optimists I’m hoping our risk in trying to be different and take the game positively pays off.

Winning this tournament in an environment which keeps getting screwed back to heavily defensive game plans...mainly due to northern propensity to want to ‘control’ the game all the time...would be very worthwhile.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/115744085/rugby-world-cup-how-the-all-blacks-dual-playmakers-can-scramble-brains

Scramble their brains...love it. laughing


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Post by Old Man on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:32 pm

Can’t wait for thetheories to end and the RWC to begin

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:37 pm

NZ dual play makers is a nice idea in theory but it hasnt really worked so far, they have been flogging that dead horse since well before McKenzie got injured.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:50 pm

What NZ want is a 4-4-2 with the goalie playing sweeper. Then they got a chance.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 9:53 pm

They should have brought Frizzel and Fifeta, then they might have had a chance.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:43 pm

Mike Tindall really doesnt like Ireland 

https://youtu.be/r3QdVChXNTo

From 9:30

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:18 pm

Haskell earns all the money the other two get.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 1:10 am

Collapse2005 wrote:NZ dual play makers is a nice idea in theory but it hasnt really worked so far, they have been flogging that dead horse since well before McKenzie got injured.

Those look like words that just can't wait to be eaten...you'll never be able to accuse Ireland of being innovative I guess huh?

'We won't do that...cos nobody has yet... Laugh

a tip on entering the no. 1 club if you want to stay there....you look ahead for ideas and challenges, not behind. You look to where you're going, not where you came from. thumbsup

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:48 am

Really thanks for that Taylorman.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:40 am

Collapse2005 wrote:They should have brought Frizzel and Fifeta, then they might have had a chance.

I spoke too soon, Frizell has been called up for injured Jacobson. NZ now have more residency qualified players in their squad than Ireland.

Ireland:
Aki
Stander
Kleyn

NZ:
Frizell
Reece
Laulala
Tu'ungafasi

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Post by PredictorofTeams on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:00 am

Cheers Collapse2005 and rodders, appreciate the feedback ! thumbsup

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Post by rodders on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:08 am

So does any one else think we've seen a bit of deception from Ireland since the new year?

I did genuinely think we were struggling physically and confidence wise but now all of a sudden key players like Sexton, Henshaw etc. seem to be returning and physically we are looking very sharp.

Things seem to be coming together at the right time and I'm wondering how much of it was planned?
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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:13 am

Meh, when you start reading the news and this and that coach have this and that up their sleeve it becomes a bit humorous really.

Every coach will have a bit of “surprised” planning, but the reality is any new plan must be practiced during world cup preparation to make it be effective, as for players coming back into the fold and man management, its just par for the course.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 11:20 am

rodders wrote:So does any one else think we've seen a bit of deception from Ireland since the new year?

I did genuinely think we were struggling physically and confidence wise but now all of a sudden key players like Sexton, Henshaw etc. seem to be returning and physically we are looking very sharp.

Things seem to be coming together at the right time and I'm wondering how much of it was planned?

We were definitely struggling with physicality but I dont think thats down to players not being physical enough in general

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 12:06 pm

Getting into jinx territory now but what the hell.  What will be will be and if some of us end up eating our own words by the end, who cares.  It'll prove nothing but that we're human.

So here goes - I think this Irish side are relishing the physical challenges ahead.  I think quite a number of them know they've talked a little about playing on after this WC but I think quite a few of them would walk away happy if they gave everything to the next few weeks - everything - and went away either with a prize or certainly with no regrets about effort put into the attempt.

To me, that last game against Wales, it just hinted a few more things to me than just the result.  Gatland's mood after.  Maintaining an air of calm but just those hints that he knew his side had met a taste of real Ireland behind the cloak.  And rather than focus on what he actually now thought about Ireland's potential, I think the little shock for him is that he was forced to reassess (in his mind, not publically) the true power potential of his own troops.  That was Ireland just yawning - it wasn't close to full tilt.  Nobody would declare that effort full tilt Ireland and yet how comfortable they looked was evidenced by the expressions on the starters who left the field in the second half.  It wasn't a training run, they did care about the result, there was the Rory and Joe's last game in Lansdowne factor, and yet they all trusted the finishers to get the job done against Wales, the comeback kings with tiger Gats at the helm. Trust, contentment - knowing the real intensity available throughout the squad.

So I've just felt for a long time now that a brooding bubbling effect is taking place with Ireland and I think that's healthy because I think if there is a full desire to engage in furious rugby then injury issues we always seem to fear become less of an issue.  
Through the 6N I sensed players terrified of injury.  You can't coach that away.  Big event coming, once in a lifetime for some - it makes players conscious of the physicality of their game.
That last game against Wales was the first one this year when I felt that reticence lifted.  It was more than just collisions themselves, it was an attitude that the game was the first date where they allowed themselves the indulgence.  And the minute you again start honestly competing hard in those hard areas, things simply work better all over the park.

So I hope there is not too many cotton wool moments.  These players will want to play all games (portions of) because they'll now fear those 'easy win' games as much as the difficult ones.  They won't want to miss influencing each progression point.  Creating an environment where 'special' players are saved for the 'real' WC playoff stages might in my mind be counterproductive.  I think we should seek to create a more fluid environment where the primary top 23 or 24 player are intermixed as starters and finishers throughout the competition to hone a rhythm that becomes more resolute after each game.  'Minnows' need to be pummelled to the same rhythm as we would try to inflict on top sides.  I don't want to see two Irelands at this WC.  I want to see the same blueprint, no extended cotton wool cocooning, the development of a rhythm and consolidating it bit by bit by bit without let up.
Let God or the fates decide the rest.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:03 pm

Its amazing how optimism creeps back after a couple of reasonably good wins. In my view though world cup form requires 3-4 years of preparation during which time Schmidt and his team have hit all their milestones and more and always bounce back from any dips. As such I was still pretty confident after the England game that we were still amongst a group of about six sides that had a really good chance.

Thats part of the reason that I feel the jury is still out on this SA team because although they have showed some form of late it has been over a much smaller time range with a coaching group that has had very limited time to make sustainable changes. The memory of RWC success may stand to them as tends to be the argument when assessing their pegigree but none of the current SA squad nor management were involved last time SA made a RWC final except Frans Steyn.

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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:15 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Its amazing how optimism creeps back after a couple of reasonably good wins. In my view though world cup form requires 3-4 years of preparation during which time Schmidt and his team have hit all their milestones and more and always bounce back from any dips. As such I was still pretty confident after the England game that we were still amongst a group of about six sides that had a really good chance.

Thats part of the reason that I feel the jury is still out on this SA team because although they have showed some form of late it has been over a much smaller time range with a coaching group that has had very limited time to make sustainable changes. The memory of RWC success may stand to them as tends to be the argument when assessing their pegigree but none of the current SA squad nor management were involved last time SA made a RWC final except Frans Steyn.

In 1995 Kitch Christie took a squad with only 8 matches prior to the RWC and no experience to the final.

Four years to build isn’t necessarily required.

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Post by rodders on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm

For me it isn't so much the results of one or 2 games.

With the turnaround in form and fitness over 2 games against Wales, as well as some of the bold squad selections, I'm convinced that we've seen a bit of deception from Schmidt, since the turn of the year anyway.

I don't mean that we threw games away but its now clear that everything since we beat the ABs has been focused towards this and specifically the KO stages.

I suspect a few players have been held back for much of the season and tactically we've been careful not to show our hand. I think we are going to see something different from Ireland in the QF, assuming we get there.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:52 pm

Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its amazing how optimism creeps back after a couple of reasonably good wins. In my view though world cup form requires 3-4 years of preparation during which time Schmidt and his team have hit all their milestones and more and always bounce back from any dips. As such I was still pretty confident after the England game that we were still amongst a group of about six sides that had a really good chance.

Thats part of the reason that I feel the jury is still out on this SA team because although they have showed some form of late it has been over a much smaller time range with a coaching group that has had very limited time to make sustainable changes. The memory of RWC success may stand to them as tends to be the argument when assessing their pegigree but none of the current SA squad nor management were involved last time SA made a RWC final except Frans Steyn.

In 1995 Kitch Christie took a squad with only 8 matches prior to the RWC and no experience to the final.

Four years to build isn’t necessarily required.

Yes but that was a home world cup for SA and they had plenty of luck along the way. The Semi v France, France were all over SA but torrential rain really slowed down a fairly rampant France back line in a match that really should have been postponed. France were also denied a fairly clear try by the ref and lost by 4 points. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AmSK-IkzK0 . It was also an amateur sport back then so none of their opponents would have been much more prepared than them either.

In the final the NZ team were reported to all have food poisoning. Finally and this really is one for the conspiracy theorists half the '95 squad is now dead, read into that what you will with respect to preparations.

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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 2:57 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Its amazing how optimism creeps back after a couple of reasonably good wins. In my view though world cup form requires 3-4 years of preparation during which time Schmidt and his team have hit all their milestones and more and always bounce back from any dips. As such I was still pretty confident after the England game that we were still amongst a group of about six sides that had a really good chance.

Thats part of the reason that I feel the jury is still out on this SA team because although they have showed some form of late it has been over a much smaller time range with a coaching group that has had very limited time to make sustainable changes. The memory of RWC success may stand to them as tends to be the argument when assessing their pegigree but none of the current SA squad nor management were involved last time SA made a RWC final except Frans Steyn.

In 1995 Kitch Christie took a squad with only 8 matches prior to the RWC and no experience to the final.

Four years to build isn’t necessarily required.

Yes but that was a home world cup for SA and they had plenty of luck along the way. The Semi v France, France were all over SA but torrential rain really slowed down a fairly rampant France back line in a match  that really should have been postponed. It was also an amateur sport back then so none of their opponents would have been much more prepared than them either.

In the final the NZ team were reported to all have food poisoning. Finally and this really is one for the conspiracy theorists half the '95 squad is now dead, read into that what you will with respect to preparations.

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role.

Even for Ireland to win they have to overcome the burden of never having gone past the quarters, they will struggle if their important players are injured, referee calls, bounce of the ball.

We’re all in the same boat.

There are six teams that can win it, on the day it counts, whatever has gone before is only of academic interest.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 3:30 pm

Thats true. SA will need to eat their Billtong wont they old man?

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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:27 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Thats true. SA will need to eat their Billtong wont they old man?

This biltong dude must have done a number on you?

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:30 pm

Ha, who says I was talking about someone called Billtong? Where in SA are you from Old Man?

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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 4:36 pm

The name biltong has come up a few times now, it is delicious eating though.

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Post by ebop on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:34 pm

rodders wrote:So does any one else think we've seen a bit of deception from Ireland since the new year?

I did genuinely think we were struggling physically and confidence wise but now all of a sudden key players like Sexton, Henshaw etc. seem to be returning and physically we are looking very sharp.

Things seem to be coming together at the right time and I'm wondering how much of it was planned?
Fanciful thinking imo. Ireland hit a wall after exceeding themselves. They’re a yo-yo type of team that can’t live at the top for long as the pressure becomes too much and they crumble. They had a woeful 6Ns and were humiliated by 50-odd points by England a couple of games ago and you think they are peaking at the right time because they played two dull games against Wales? Lol
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:40 pm

Is 3rd out of six woeful? If so didnt NZ come 3rd out of 4 in a practice version of the rugby championship? What would you call that? Pathetic? Ba hahaha.

NZ themselves got spanked by a lower ranked side than England in the RC. I suppose that doesnt count picard

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Post by ebop on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:44 pm

3rd is woeful when a team is actually trying to win it and if that team actually thinks they’re the best. It is absolutely woeful.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:45 pm

Oh of course NZ never try when they lose I forgot

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:50 pm

Yeah they might fumble their way through it but fact is they’ve done nothing ‘emphatic’ this year. No single test has said...watch out, we are Ireland. The other main contenders have. SA definitely has, emphatically winning the RC, thumping oz, drawing in NZ, and remaining unseating.

NZ flattened oz when it needed a big one, as did oz in Perth.

Wales did there’s early, 6N, then beat England recently, falling off a bit after that, but they’ve showed they’re ready for another likely semi.

Ireland? Every outing has been ho hum, and they got pummelled by the biggest score of all the possibles. The last two wins over Wales weren’t emphatic, one was a friendly, the other Wales have tailed off in prep, and are waiting, ready.

Id be concerned about qualifying in all honesty. All three of Scotland, Samoa and Japan could upset Ireland, and I think at least one wil.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:54 pm

Oh shots fired, fact is the Ireland team wont fear NZ one bit if they face them, they will be chomping at the bit to knock them out and send them back to Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:55 pm

Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:57 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

Oh yeah the first RWC over 30 years ago in the amature era in NZ. NZ were lucky to host it.

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Post by ebop on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:58 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Oh shots fired, fact is the Ireland team wont fear NZ one bit if they face them, they will be chomping at the bit to knock them out and send them back to Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.
There you go Guns, crumbling just like your Ireland rugby team is prone to. SA or NZ will relish a game against a one-dimensional peaked-too-soon Ireland.
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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:59 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

Unless of course you are totally and utterly superior to anyone else, my apologies.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:03 pm

This NZ side isnt good enough to go all the way, if anyone is crumbling its the ABs. 4 islanders in the squad, too many players past it, Hanson easily rattled and looking desperate, not a patch on the 2015 NZ side. They are going to flop out like a queef on a beanbag.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:04 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Oh shots fired, fact is the Ireland team wont fear NZ one bit if they face them, they will be chomping at the bit to knock them out and send them back to Tonga, Fiji and Samoa.

Yes the excitement kicking in early huh?
Upsets in World cups are a certainty and pools A and D look to be the providers this time.

Ireland and Scotland will do well to get out of pool, injury free. The Samoans will look to knock anything over that moves, and Japan under Joseph won’t be easy beats either. With a Super rugby win with the unlikely Highlanders vs hot fave Canes away in Wellington final in 2015- he knows a thing or two about creating upsets on the day.

Like the last World Cup, Japan will be wanting the scalp of one or both of the top seeds.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:06 pm

Looks like Japan screwed up by pulling out all their Japan qualified players from the Sunwolves squad and put them in the B side for the whole year. Undercooked.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:49 pm

Old Man wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

Unless of course you are totally and utterly superior to anyone else, my apologies.

No, a simple matter of getting your facts right. OK

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Post by Old Man on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 8:50 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

Unless of course you are totally and utterly superior to anyone else, my apologies.

No, a simple matter of getting your facts right. OK

Wasn’t really facts I put out there, more an opinion Wink

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:00 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Looks like Japan screwed up by pulling out all their Japan qualified players from the Sunwolves squad and put them in the B side for the whole year. Undercooked.

Don’t know, haven’t really followed them. I’ve heard they had some good results.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:07 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looks like Japan screwed up by pulling out all their Japan qualified players from the Sunwolves squad and put them in the B side for the whole year. Undercooked.

Don’t know, haven’t really followed them. I’ve heard they had some good results.

I'll bet Joseph Schmidt has.... every blade of grass trampled on, measured and calibrated to define each Japanese player's pound pressure per square inch at an average in-game speed of 22.864533291 mph.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:08 pm

Old Man wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Old Man wrote:

You need luck in any world cup, controversial wins, lucky bounces it all plays a role..

No you don’t. 87 the closest anyone got was 20, in the final. No luck required there.

Unless of course you are totally and utterly superior to anyone else, my apologies.

No, a simple matter of getting your facts right. OK

Wasn’t really facts I put out there, more an opinion Wink

Yep fair enough, think you’d be right on the button for this one. Being the eternal optimistic AB fan I’m hoping the team with the biggest point of difference...being a side that will target ‘fanatical’ looking for space options wherever and whenever they are to run the points up. Risk is it’s a make or break option. It will either close out matches consistently, or be shut down. One things for certain, they’re going to score many, many fantastic tries.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Looks like Japan screwed up by pulling out all their Japan qualified players from the Sunwolves squad and put them in the B side for the whole year. Undercooked.

Don’t know, haven’t really followed them. I’ve heard they had some good results.

I'll bet Joseph Schmidt has.... every blade of grass trampled on, measured and calibrated to define each Japanese player's pound pressure per square inch at an average in-game speed of 22.864533291 mph.

Did exactly that with the highlanders OK

I meant the Japan side, not the Sunwolves, who were awful, but that’s also a tough gig, they travelled ridiculous miles.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 9:15 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:This NZ side isnt good enough to go all the way, if anyone is crumbling its the ABs. 4 islanders in the squad, too many players past it, Hanson easily rattled and looking desperate, not a patch on the 2015 NZ side. They are going to flop out like a queef on a beanbag.

Yeah I’m a bit concerned now. You’re very familiar with that outcome I know, the flopping out, queef beanbag thing I mean. Happens every time so yeah, gotta bow to expert knowledge in that area. Laugh

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 1:24 pm

Robbie Henshaw out of RWC? Going for a scan on his hamstring today.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 3:14 pm

Looks like Addison might be getting a phone call

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