England vs Ireland, one off Test - thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 17 Jul 2019, 2:02 pm

First topic message reminder :

England have announced their squad for the one off test match against Ireland, it is as follows

Joe Root
James Anderson
Moeen Ali
Jonny Bairstow
Stuart Broad
Rory Burns
Sam Curran
Joe Denly
Lewis Gregory
Jack Leach
Jason Roy
Olly Stone
Chris Woakes

Lewis Gregory, Jason Roy & Olly Stone could make debuts.

James Anderson included & Jack Leach returns.

Buttler and Stokes are rested.

Wood & Archer not considered because of injury. Wood out for 4 to 6 weeks.
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Post by compelling and rich on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 6:44 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Do not be shocked if Broad doesnt start the ashes. If Archer and/or Wood were fit Id take it as a given.

I dont think Currans much cop but hes bowled Broad off the pitch today.

You must’ve been watching a different days play to me Goose, bar that over Broad has been fantastic

somewhere in between for me, thought early on in his spell he wasted the new ball by bowling too short. he did settle down and after the initial poor spell was our best bowler. went unrewarded for a lot of his work. then he seems to gone back to short ball mode on a green pitch with swing.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 6:51 pm

20 wickets in the day! That's why only four days were needed.

England need at least 321 in this second dig to become strong favourites - that would set Ireland a 200+ total to win the test which should be enough. Ordinarily you'd say that isn't too problematic, but after this morning...

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 6:52 pm

1 over to face then. Cook reckons Leach will come out. 20 wickets to fall. Maximum possible 21 wickets, as if a wicket falls in the last over they'll call it a day.

As someone with tickets for Day 3, really hoping England bat long tomorrow. Trailing by 122, if they can bat the day and still have batsmen there Friday morning they've got a chance. Proper batting job needed tomorrow.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 7:21 pm

So not the worst 2 sessions after being bowled out for 85 before lunch. Could have been slightly better after those two drops off Broad, but we're still just in the game.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 7:23 pm

compelling and rich wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Do not be shocked if Broad doesnt start the ashes. If Archer and/or Wood were fit Id take it as a given.

I dont think Currans much cop but hes bowled Broad off the pitch today.

You must’ve been watching a different days play to me Goose, bar that over Broad has been fantastic

somewhere in between for me, thought early on in his spell he wasted the new ball by bowling too short. he did settle down and after the initial poor spell was our best bowler. went unrewarded for a lot of his work. then he seems to gone back to short ball mode on a green pitch with swing.

I missed the middle bit to be fair but wasting the new ball was poor, and he was bowling some real junk when I posted that ( just before ending up with respectable figures!)

Maybe he was following orders with the length at the end, but whats Stone there for except to bowl at tail enders heads? I guess my focus on Broads failings (which I may have exaggerated according to the above, but he didnt get results in that middle period) is because hes one of the bowlers here supposedly nailed on for the tests. Stone is a third choice fast bowler and it wasnt certain theyd pick one at all. Currans making a late case to get a place back, and Woakes is largely seen as the vulnerable one. To be fair as it stands at the end of the days play hes the one with no wickets and costly but Id rather have the batting propped up by him and Curran than Broad who is genuinely terrified by anyone bowling over 80mph. I really just think his day is done, certainly Currans all round game must be putting questions in the selectors heads. Id seen him as the reserve Woakes, but he why not for Broad?


Anyway overall its absolute rubbish from England, frankly embarrassing. I've been to Ireland a number of times recently and never met anyone who cares about the game, Ive seen more people playing fcking polo. When I forwarded the score to a friend he just replied that he had no idea what it meant. Get humped by Afghanistan would be more honourable.
The conditions certainly helped Ireland more but the batsmen hit a new low. Roy never got settled. Burns never dared score. Denly was as good as he is capable of. The rest....jeez.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 7:28 pm

If Woakes was the one who didn't need a rest, how tired must the others be?!

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Post by msp83 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 8:13 pm

An interesting day of test cricket. After being disrespected with a 4 day test, Ireland wasted no time putting England in their place. Bowled out 85! Next thing after the World Cup. Couldn't watch live and on the highlights, it looked really poor from English batsmen.

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Post by msp83 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 8:18 pm

But by not capitalizing on a position of 130-2, Ireland I feel, have missed a great opportunity to make history. If they would have managed a lead close to 200, you never know, England would have been all kinds of pressure. Tim Murtagh was brilliant with the ball, and then gave himself and the bowling unit something to work with with that plucky knock with the bat. But I think England will bounce back to win the test eventually. The HQ is usually a flattish track. When overhead conditions ally with a green first day tracks, you get short first inningses, but then it often becomes a highway! There could stil l be some life in the track, but England would have received a strong jolt in te first innings so much so that they would now want to prove a point. If they bat most of the day tomorrow, the game will be as good as done...

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Post by KP_fan on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 8:45 pm

IRE got a score that they were expected to get in any conditions, anyhow.
Its Eng's collapse that makes IRE lead of 120 look enormous.

However Eng cannot get bowled out a second time cheaply or bowled out at all.....they will score BIG....bat 5 sessions and declare for about 450-500sh......leaving iRE four sessions to survive which IRE should given that Day-4 shows rains


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Post by westisbest on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 8:45 pm

Good day for Ireland. Should enjoy it while we can, as feel England will come back stronger.

Great stuff though. OK

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Post by VTR on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 9:20 pm

I don't think it was disrespectful to offer a 4 day Test. It's at Lord's, and these shorter Tests will become more common. Ireland are not that marketable and that's the reality of it I'm afraid, so a 4 day Test is a decent compromise vs none at all.

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Post by Duty281 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 10:50 pm

If England bat through the day tomorrow, they'll likely have a big enough lead to win. Temperatures as high as 37 degrees tomorrow, so it could be a long day for Ireland in the field if they don't make breakthroughs early on (deja vu!).

I think it's rather fanciful to think England will bat five sessions - even if they wanted to, the evidence of today suggests it's beyond them! Bat three sessions? Maybe, if the batsmen show some application, grind the bowlers down and build an innings, rather than going for loose drives and not moving their feet.

It'll probably be a much closer finish than originally envisaged, but I still think England will triumph.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 11:06 pm

VTR wrote:I don't think it was disrespectful to offer a 4 day Test. It's at Lord's, and these shorter Tests will become more common. Ireland are not that marketable and that's the reality of it I'm afraid, so a 4 day Test is a decent compromise vs none at all.

Also does it matter? We’ve just seen 20 wickets fall on day one, it could’ve been a three day test and still not been a draw
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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:17 am

Well it is 4 days but they are supposed to be 98 overs each so I don't think that is too "disrespectful" ... perhaps "experimental".

It does seem four days will likely be enough Smile

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:That is very poor keeping by Bairstow I am afraid. Very poor.

Probably should have gone for it.  But why on earth was Root standing so wide ? In "normal" first slip position that is straight to him.
They haven't worked out the positioning or personnel of the cordon since Cook retired. Need to get that sorted before the Ashes ...among other things.

Nothing going for England. Irish in total command and you'd think they'll be celebrating a famous win some time Friday...

Not sure you can blame first slip at all Alfie for that - it’s barely a foot from Bairstow’s right hand and he doesn’t even attempt it!

There was a few Cook took last year diving to his left against India where I thought Jonny should’ve gone for it...imo you should never see first slip taking a catch diving toward the keepers side.

Just to clarify : not really meaning to blame Root for not catching it . As you say the keeper should generally go for those (though I think it was a bit wider than a Foot !) My complaint is that I hate these gaps in slip cordons - either between slips , or to the keeper. Makes no sense to me. And I think they serve to confuse people , as in this case. I do not think we had this issue with Cook at first.

I think whenever you see a ball passing untouched between keeper and first it suggests neither are sure : but in this case Root was standing so wide that it was clear he wasn't getting it . I'd imagine Bairstow has some input into where the slip stands so even more odd that he didn't move for it. Diving in front of the slip is hardly uncommon so I'd have to say in this case Bairstow had either forgotten where Root was or just wasn't awake...perhaps a symptom of a couple of months patrolling white ball outfields ?
I'd agree slip usually shouldn't be diving toward the keeper (though I've taken a couple that way myself so it does happen Whistle ) But if you are going to stand that wide it becomes an option...albeit not a good one ! I don't think that slip position is normal for Root though I could have missed it I suppose - wonder what the rationale was for it on this occasion ?

Anyway I see my parting Jinx worked in collapsing Ireland from 130/2 when I turned in so I'm taking credit for getting England back into the game Smile

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:40 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Do not be shocked if Broad doesnt start the ashes. If Archer and/or Wood were fit Id take it as a given.

I dont think Currans much cop but hes bowled Broad off the pitch today.

You must’ve been watching a different days play to me Goose, bar that over Broad has been fantastic

Well I didn't see the wicket rush but I was pretty happy with Broad's bowling even earlier. Not as lucky as Curran - in fact dead unlucky - but looked as if hes close to his best form in good time for the Ashes. Am quite sure he starts.

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:42 am

Road map for Thursday pretty simple : bat all day. Conditions should be more batsman friendly so no excuses...

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Post by VTR on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 7:56 am

Well yeah, not exactly disrespectful to not offer a fifth day that has zero chance of happening. Think it was just a chance to have a dig at England, like 85 all out wasn't enough material already. I look forward to Ireland's tour of India with three full five day Tests scheduled. Or is it more respectful to offer them nothing?

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 8:25 am

alfie wrote:Road map for Thursday pretty simple : bat all day.   Conditions should be more batsman friendly so no excuses...

Well hopefully! There was a bit of low bounce on day one so that could be problematic. Big innings for some of England's players - specifically Burns, Denly and Bairstow who all have something to prove.

Burns currently averaging 23 with the bat in test cricket (against not exactly the toughest of opponents) and hasn't hit a first-class fifty in his last 13 FC innings - those stats and his dismal technique suggest his stint as England opener won't be a successful one, either. Is the position cursed?!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 11:01 am

Duty281 wrote:
alfie wrote:Road map for Thursday pretty simple : bat all day.   Conditions should be more batsman friendly so no excuses...

Well hopefully! There was a bit of low bounce on day one so that could be problematic. Big innings for some of England's players - specifically Burns, Denly and Bairstow who all have something to prove.

Burns currently averaging 23 with the bat in test cricket (against not exactly the toughest of opponents) and hasn't hit a first-class fifty in his last 13 FC innings - those stats and his dismal technique suggest his stint as England opener won't be a successful one, either. Is the position cursed?!

You beat me to the post re: Burns (am sure if Guildford wasn't on holiday he would have too). Really hasn't been in good nick this summer, and think because of the hoopla around Roy and Jennings being somehow worse he's got a bit of a free pass so far...
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 11:25 am

Not a fan of the nightwatchman - but this is the positive to it, Leach hanging around this morning so far and scoring a few runs...whilst taking overs out of the new ball and Murtagh etc
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Post by Duty281 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 11:45 am

Burns pointlessly pushing at a delivery which he could have either left, comfortably, or played a positive shot at. Ireland have the opening they craved just as it looked as though England were doing alright.

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Post by compelling and rich on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 11:49 am

leach to open anyone? looked a lot more assured than burns did

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Post by Duty281 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:13 pm

Leach is outperforming Roy and Burns combined. Roy looking all over the shop in this short vigil so far.

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Post by No name Bertie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:23 pm

Leach is performing like an opening batsman. Which might explain his bowling contribution against Ireland of 3 overs for 26 runs and no wickets.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:28 pm

It is great to see Leach cementing his place at the top of the order with a patient approaching, playing each ball on its merits and not doing anything silly. Bowler, you say? Nightwatchman? Oh

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:34 pm

Next game we should open with Burns and Roy to protect Leach's wicket.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:37 pm

Leach now with the best average of any England opener post-Strauss. An amazing achievement; awe-inspiring display here. Bonus is he also bowls a bit of spin too

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 12:39 pm

Leachs performance just makes everyone else look even worse. This is so typically England

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Post by VTR on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:00 pm

Yes, the Leach innings is the kind of curiosity that makes the rest of them look ridiculous. Burns seems poor and has had quite a few Tests now. Think we are running out of options to try as openers

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:16 pm

It is absolutely fantastic banter that both an England opener and Roy have both made 50, yet we are no closer to solving the opener crisis. Magnificent work all.

On a serious note - Ireland cocked this game up final session yesterday. 127-2 at tea, dominant position, and they let it slip away
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Post by king_carlos on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:17 pm

Burns seems to be playing a lot more statically for England than I've been used to seeing him for Surrey. He seems to be batting slightly deeper to the stumps and moving his feet very tentatively. Given how simple his game is (leave well, punch-drive the full balls and clip away everything on his legs) that is a serious issue given he relies on limited but very reliable scoring shots. His usually assertive drives look like prods, his shape to clip off his legs looks awkward and a bit squared up.

Roy is starting to show why they've taken the punt here. If he can stay there long enough to get his eye in (a big if currently) then he can build the scoreboard very quickly.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:19 pm

Leach's score is the highest by a non-Cook English opener in a home test since 2017

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:23 pm

To lunch level and only one down is a really good achievement by Leach and Roy. If you said 122-1 last night you'd think the nightwatchman had gone and the Surrey pair had got in.

While Roy is there Ireland will sweat. Psychologically they can contemplate losing their lead for 40 minutes before they have to come out and bowl again. Maybe the break will do them some good and give them a chance to regroup, but if they don't get Roy in the first few overs after lunch they'll start to worry, even if they get rid of Leach. Another session of Roy and England could add 150 before tea.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:35 pm

So now a one innings match with England batting first and 0-1.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:So now a one innings match with England batting first and 0-1.

Given the wicket column doesn't normally take too long for an England batting side to get to 1, you'd take that. Especially with the conditions. Roy can do his own thing, but if Denly and Root can occupy the crease when they get a chance, then they'll really set a platform for strokemakers down the order to make some quick runs this evening and hopefully tomorrow morning as well.

It will be interesting to see what the pitch does tomorrow. It will only be a day 3 pitch, but with the sun on it today it could start to break up. Either way, the heat won't be as punishing in the day for the bowlers at the very least.

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 1:50 pm

KP_fan wrote:IRE got a score that they were expected to get in any conditions, anyhow.
Its Eng's collapse that makes IRE lead of 120 look enormous.

However Eng cannot get bowled out a second time cheaply or bowled out at all.....they will score BIG....bat 5 sessions and declare for about 450-500sh......leaving iRE four sessions to survive which IRE should given that Day-4 shows rains

122-1 eng at lunch...going per my script so far
anyone still doubts Eng will play out 5 sessions

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:01 pm

What a difference a day makes...

Batting conditions chalk and cheese of course.  Hindsight says England should definitely have sent Ireland in.  But looking at the situation now you'd think they'd want a pretty big lead as bowling Ireland out might not be as easy second time round either.

Good work from Leach in particular ...and Roy for profiting from his early good fortune and playing his way to a rapid fifty. Unfortunately Burns is digging a hole for himself...seems bereft of confidence - or strokes. If a Martian walked in to the ground this morning he'd have assumed Burns was the number eleven and Leach the regular opener...

Not sure what - if anything - all this means for the Ashes. But that can wait.  England still have a lot of work to do to make up for yesterday.

Though it was a thoroughly entertaining day !

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:14 pm

Nathaniel not been on to tell us that Roy is a natural talent?

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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:17 pm

Jokes aside this is really important for Roy's confidence ahead of the ashes. Hopefully he will feel a bit less at sea come the first proper test, he is one of the few England players who doesnt need to be terrified of the Aussie quicks. 

Burns though, hes going to be feeling all kinds of pressure for the ashes.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:22 pm

KP_fan wrote:
KP_fan wrote:IRE got a score that they were expected to get in any conditions, anyhow.
Its Eng's collapse that makes IRE lead of 120 look enormous.

However Eng cannot get bowled out a second time cheaply or bowled out at all.....they will score BIG....bat 5 sessions and declare for about 450-500sh......leaving iRE four sessions to survive which IRE should given that Day-4 shows rains

122-1 eng at lunch...going per my script so far
anyone still doubts Eng will play out 5 sessions


I'm not sure if they will bat out 5 sessions. Even if we could (and we are prone to losing wickets in clusters), would we want to? At the rate we're going now 5 sessions would give us 600. Even if we scaled that back to 500 - that would set Ireland 380 which they'll get nowhere near.

England won't really be thinking about targets or anything until tonight at the earliest. How they structure Day 3 will depend on how today goes - but if they're still batting at tea on Friday and lose out to rain on Saturday then you'd say they've got it wrong.

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:23 pm

Adair has managed to get some swing ; but there's nothing in this pitch for the bowlers now. Going to be hard work for Ireland this afternoon unless England go silly...
Not sure the England bowlers will relish conditions second time around either. At least they have four spinners Smile

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:28 pm

Obviously, England would have been looking to send anyone in on that first day were they not prepping.

Leach survives a scare!

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:29 pm

And it's an awful missed catch

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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:29 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Jokes aside this is really important for Roy's confidence ahead of the ashes. Hopefully he will feel a bit less at sea come the first proper test, he is one of the few England players who doesnt need to be terrified of the Aussie quicks. 

Burns though, hes going to be feeling all kinds of pressure for the ashes.

I don't think Roy does " terrified". Being all at sea has more to do with the way he plays...ie very much a raffle for the first few overs. If it moves around the Aussie quicks will certainly work him over : but if he manages to survive as he did this morning he will score runs.

Which is the gamble they've taken picking him...

Leach dropped ! Thought Wilson had that ! Jack's lucky day Smile

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:33 pm

Bumble's point on Roy was very good at lunch. Roy doesn't need to worry about the run rate etc, he just needs to play his natural game now. Never force it, just play

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Post by KP_fan on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:38 pm

robbo277 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
KP_fan wrote:IRE got a score that they were expected to get in any conditions, anyhow.
Its Eng's collapse that makes IRE lead of 120 look enormous.

However Eng cannot get bowled out a second time cheaply or bowled out at all.....they will score BIG....bat 5 sessions and declare for about 450-500sh......leaving iRE four sessions to survive which IRE should given that Day-4 shows rains

122-1 eng at lunch...going per my script so far
anyone still doubts Eng will play out 5 sessions


I'm not sure if they will bat out 5 sessions. Even if we could (and we are prone to losing wickets in clusters), would we want to? At the rate we're going now 5 sessions would give us 600. Even if we scaled that back to 500 - that would set Ireland 380 which they'll get nowhere near.

England won't really be thinking about targets or anything until tonight at the earliest. How they structure Day 3 will depend on how today goes - but if they're still batting at tea on Friday and lose out to rain on Saturday then you'd say they've got it wrong.

yes they will want to...if not bowled out prematurely & I believe they will not be bowled out.
5 sessions will give them 400ish run lead and 4 sessions to bowl out IRE ( or for IRE to bat out)

I don't think Eng will give 300 in 5 sessions or 350 chase in 4.5 sessions
they will see this as too much risk....*even against IRE*
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:53 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Bumble's point on Roy was very good at lunch. Roy doesn't need to worry about the run rate etc, he just needs to play his natural game now. Never force it, just play
He tried to force it

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:54 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Bumble's point on Roy was very good at lunch. Roy doesn't need to worry about the run rate etc, he just needs to play his natural game now. Never force it, just play
He tried to force it

? He's missed a drive, that is his natural game!
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Post by alfie on Thu 25 Jul 2019, 2:55 pm

And there goes Roy...

Tied down for a bit and lost patience. He might be a bit annoyed to have tossed away a hundred like that : a debut hundred at Lord's would have been nice. Was a very loose drive !

Denly can't say it isn't set up for him now. He needs to support Leach.

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