England vs Ireland, one off Test - thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu Jul 18, 2019 1:02 am

First topic message reminder :

England have announced their squad for the one off test match against Ireland, it is as follows

Joe Root
James Anderson
Moeen Ali
Jonny Bairstow
Stuart Broad
Rory Burns
Sam Curran
Joe Denly
Lewis Gregory
Jack Leach
Jason Roy
Olly Stone
Chris Woakes

Lewis Gregory, Jason Roy & Olly Stone could make debuts.

James Anderson included & Jack Leach returns.

Buttler and Stokes are rested.

Wood & Archer not considered because of injury. Wood out for 4 to 6 weeks.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am

Gooseberry wrote:These are Englands best two batsmen in now (not even joking after recent summers).

I CBA to look up the stats but going back to Nathanial SAVAGING of Bairstow if you take out their best year which other England players would average over 30 in tests. Root and.... ?

Ok there goes woakes  
Root has had multiple calendar years where he’s averaged over 50. Hence why he’s talked about in the same category as Smith/Kohli/Williamson

Bairstow averaged over 50 in 2016, yet every other year his average has been between 20s-30s.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:48 am

Sam Curran doing the rescue act again. England back to being favourites.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:54 am

Sam gone but he’s given England a chance here.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:56 am

Enough to make England favourites again. It is easier to bat out there than yesterday, but I don't expect Ireland to make 170+.

End of the day as the rain falls. England have a solid, but nowhere near watertight, advantage. Tomorrow should be a cracker.

It is immensely worrying how poor England have batted over the past two days - probably the worst England batting line-up I've seen in the past 20 years. I make Australia favourites to win the upcoming series now and 13/8 is an excellent price.

Over rate was appalling. Just below 13 overs an hour, I think. Even taking into account the heat, a team of medium pacers and McBrine shouldn't be so slow.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:43 am

1.Burns
2.Roy
3.Denly
4.Root (c)
5.Stokes
6.Buttler
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Woakes/Curran
9.Ali/Leach
10.Broad/Archer
11.Anderson

A long long way from perfect but a noticeable step-up from batting order. Bairstow at 7 and Woakes to 8 offer real depth which is this side needs given the flimsy top order.

I expect that need for batting depth will dictate seamer choices to an extent as well. I'd be surprised if both Woakes and Sam Curran were left out for the same test.

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Post by msp83 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:31 am

So another good day of test cricket for Ireland. But again, like yesterday, have a feeling they failed to show the killer instinct. Just like they losing 5-22 with the bat yesterday to let slip a strong position, from effectively 7-less than 120, England now are ahead by 181. Sam Curran, in his young test career has proved himself to be a master of such situation, but it was a huge chance lost by Ireland nevertheless.
Think England may have got just about enough. But an Irish surprise is not ruled out yet. Perhaps KJ or someone can play an innings of a life and get them over the line, provided they take out the last English wicket for not much more.

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Post by Jetty on Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:30 pm

1 Sibley
2 Roy
3 Stokes
4 Root
5 Curran
6 Buttler
7 Foakes
8 Ali
9 Archer
10 Broad
11 Anderson

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:56 pm

Anyone
Else
Roy
Root
Stokes
Buttler
Bairstow
Leach
Woakes/Archer
Broad/Woakes
Anderson

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Post by alfie on Fri Jul 26, 2019 1:09 pm

Crazy game , no ?

Turned in when Root and Denly were scratching about early... expecting to awake and see something like 320/6 at the end of a hot day...

What happened ? OK , I've read the commentary so I guess it was another example of (1) Carelessness - daft run out (2) White ball madness still affecting players (YJB , Woakes , Root) and (3) Poor old Mo is in the horrors... Seems the pitch did get a bit harder to bat on later in the day ? Shouldn't have folded like that though - thank heaven for young Sam !

181 lead gives them a chance though you'd think Ireland are favourites. Too bad if anyone bought tickets for day four Smile

What if anything it means for the Ashes is open to guessing. I note the Australian bats generally failed in their return to the red ball game in the inter-squad trial game.

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Post by VTR on Fri Jul 26, 2019 5:54 pm

Let's hope Jetty doesn't get the role of England selector before the Ashes. Stokes at 3? Curran at 5? Absolutely crazy team that

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Post by Duty281 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:18 pm

Duty281 wrote:I'd go for this as the strongest XI:

1) Burns (Very unimpressive so far, but what else is left - Sibley? Good grief)
2) Roy (He can't be any worse than the rest)
3) Bairstow (Won't happen, as they ended that experiment, but Bairstow is wasted at 7. Either put him up the order or ditch him completely)
4) Root (If he doesn't score heavily this summer, England's chances are redundant)
5) Northeast (Doing well in the CC)
6) Stokes (Hero, yes, but could do better with batting)
7) Buttler (Still not completely sold on his value as a Test player)
8) Woakes (Curran's right behind if Woakes starts poorly)
9) Broad or Archer (I'd like to see Archer get given a go at some point, undoubtedly he will)
10) Leach (The spinning cupboard is bare. But let's not have Moeen as a frontline option.)
11) Anderson (The old master)

I went for this as the strongest XI a few days ago. I had forgotten how awful Burns is in a test arena - get him out for Sibley or Cook (that's a serious Cook recall post!). Roy has awful technique for test matches and will get out cheaply a lot of the time...but I guess, give him a chance for now? Bairstow looks mentally shot and he also has to go. Perhaps bring in Sam Hain at 3? Root is out of form and that's a further, massive worry.

The start of the Ashes also coincides with the start of the inaugural World Test Championship - the final of said Championship will be held at Lord's in two years time. England look light years away from being there. That said, England's team of all-rounders, careless sloggers and impatient shotmakers have actually won 9 of their last 12 test matches...perhaps it will be the ultimate grind to glory?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:02 pm

alfie wrote:Crazy game , no ?

Turned in when Root and Denly were scratching about early... expecting to awake and see something like 320/6 at the end of a hot day...

What happened ?  OK , I've read the commentary so I guess it was another example of (1) Carelessness - daft run out (2) White ball madness still affecting players (YJB , Woakes , Root) and (3) Poor old Mo is in the horrors...   Seems the pitch did get a bit harder to bat on later in the day ? Shouldn't have folded like that though - thank heaven for young Sam !

181 lead gives them a chance though you'd think Ireland are favourites.  Too bad if anyone bought tickets for day four Smile

What if anything it means for the Ashes is open to guessing.  I note the Australian bats generally failed in their return to the red ball game in the inter-squad trial game.

Yeah the Aussie batsmen doing as poorly as ours - Bancroft throwing his hat into the ring to get that other opening slot opposite Warner with easily the highest score of the match at 93*...

As for us - I think we need to be a tad careful of overreactions, we know what this England test XI is - it's built on the seam bowlers, in English conditions, being able to restrict the opposition and the middle/lower order essentially getting us to passable scores. And for the past few summers, that has worked well...

I see Archer is potentially going to be fit for the 1st test, which throws another name into the crowded seam bowling scene. I would go with the following XI (knowing full well Burns/Denly will likely start playing, but hey, I'm the selector here!)

1. Crawley
2. Sibley
3. Roy
4. Root
5. Buttler
6. Stokes
7. Bairstow/Foakes
8. Woakes/Curran
9. Ali/Leach
10. Broad/Archer
11. Anderson

I'd chuck the two youngsters in there, and hope at least one of them takes to it like a duck to water. Either way, they can't do worse than the incumbents, and it should do them well for the future.

Roy at 3 is his best slot in this XI - I don't think he is an opener, but I think he could work at 3.

Root/Buttler/Stokes looks to be only solid positions we know will be there. Buttler it should be remembered, has been our best bat for the past 12 months, averaging 45 in 2018 and only Root scored more runs (essentially because he played 6 more innings than Buttler).

I think Bairstow really needs to have a strong start to summer here - Foakes was very harshly dropped in the West Indies, after a sterling start to his test career with both gloves and the bat, and as has been pointed out, Bairstow's record in tests has been heading in the wrong direction. Another game like this current one against Ireland with bat and behind the stumps, and those calls might start becoming louder and more frequent.

Woakes/Curran are competing for that third seamer slot in my opinion, and I am going Woakes purely because it's his home ground to start off the series and then Lords where he usually is a king. But Curran is very hot on his heels if he doesn't start well...

For the spinner role, I think Moeen deserves to start because of how he's bowled since his return to the test side last summer, he has been brilliant with the ball, and better than Leach for my money (who I still have concerns about in non spinning conditions). As stated earlier though, England need to give up on this Moeen is a batsman issue now, the spinner whoever it is bats at 9 in the lineup and if they come off with the bat then fantastic, but the selection for the role comes down to purely who is bowling best of the two.

Broad looks fine to my eye, so he obviously starts - his record against the Aussies in England is absolutely fantastic btw, he certainly ups his game for these series. Anderson if fit, is the other in stone starter and lets pray his calf holds up through these 5 tests!
Archer is their backup for me - I'm not sure if he's good enough with the bat to justify playing ahead of Woakes/Curran as the 3rd seamer, especially as in English conditions his pace isn't going to be so needed...
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Post by VTR on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:26 pm

Does Denly get another chance? Was better than most first innings, sold up the river by his captain second time. In the Windies he showed a bit of ability to play fast bowling. Agree that Burns and Bairstow are vulnerable, and Moeen bats at 9 or even 11 for all I care

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Post by KP_fan on Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:53 pm

I expected Eng batsmen to do better in the second inning.

It should be worrying for Eng that even in eased-out conditions against the most benign bowling.....only one tailender and one batsman got bulk of the runs.
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Post by Duty281 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:01 pm

The good news is there'll be no England batting collapse today! The bad is that England, though they're favourites, might fall victim to the greatest upset in test history.

Delayed start due to rain. Should clear within an hour.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:11 pm

Stone goes first ball - ripping delivery from Thompson, swings in and takes his leg stump. England's bowlers probably not too unhappy to see that, and to get out bowling...
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Post by Duty281 on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:12 pm

First ball and Ireland get the last wicket. That signs off a truly pathetic effort from England with the bat.

Now a very tough 182 for Ireland to get, starting under floodlights. I think they'll fall at least 50 runs short.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Duty281 wrote:The good news is there'll be no England batting collapse today! The bad is that England, though they're favourites, might fall victim to the greatest upset in test history.

Delayed start due to rain. Should clear within an hour.

I think the only way you could call it a collapse is if they went first ball Very Happy

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Post by VTR on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:14 pm

Well that was predictable! Not really Stone's job to get runs though. Going off last night probably cost England a few. As dismal as this has been, I think England will complete the escape act.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:16 pm

https://twitter.com/voicefromstands/status/1154457590014906368?s=21

So good to have Cook in the TMS box - been a very good addition to provide actual insight rather than Vaughan’s rent-a-quote nonsense
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:48 pm

Agreed olly. He flat out shut Vaughn down yesterday with a "look I've been in that dressing room and you're wrong".
Sometimes players who are too close to a team are overly loyal and make excuses for them but Cooks also honest. It's not really a problem with the personnel or the theory of how they should benplayimg, but a collective failed mental approach at times. They could have improved technique but really it's mental discipline that's letting them down.

Imagine a team comprised solely of Kevin Pietersen, on a bad day, except he hasn't fallen out with himself.

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Post by compelling and rich on Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:36 pm

Ireland coming out aggressive, correct way for me. few quick 30's by a few of them and it will be enough. in these conditions if you defend you will eventually get a good one

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri Jul 26, 2019 11:45 pm

That's a very good catch, YJB.

Woakes gets Porterfield for 2, 11-1

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:02 am

Good line and length from these two and Ireland have little in response.

182 is a long way off.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:04 am

Oh that's gorgeous, Sir Chris. 19-3

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:05 am

Sir Chris, my boy!
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Post by Duty281 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:05 am

That's an absolute peach. Game over.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:06 am

big favourites now, before the start of the innings I was still fancying Ireland to do it. big ask now

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:09 am

Must say, it's enjoyable watching Jason Roy getting so into this

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Post by king_carlos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:12 am

Woakes and Broad bowling like two seamers who feel they deserve to take the new ball with Jimmy.

Excellent bowling from both.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:19 am

Doesn't look like Ireland will make 100, let alone 182.

Woakes bang on the money.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:21 am

slightly unlucky the irish. had to bowl in 35 degree heat with no clouds. bowled really well considering. and now England get great overcast conditions on a pitch already doing a bit

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:23 am

Duty281 wrote:Doesn't look like Ireland will make 100, let alone 182.

Woakes bang on the money.

50 is looking tough

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:24 am

Woakes currently bowling himself firmly into the Edgbaston test I'd say
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Post by king_carlos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:24 am

Familiar story for England in home tests. Poor top order batting, rescued by lower order fightback, then followed up by excellent seam bowling when conditions suit their stable of seamers.

Woakes has been terrific today.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:24 am

woakes played himself into the starting ashes test. thought he was poor first innings.

if Anderson is fit who opens with him?

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Post by king_carlos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:26 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Woakes currently bowling himself firmly into the Edgbaston test I'd say
Anderson, Woakes and Broad would be the seamers for Edgbaston I'd predict, Olly. Experience first up.

Later in the series I think we will see Broad rotated out for Archers pace.

I think that Sam Curran will be rotated in for Woakes but if he's bowling like this it's difficult to rest him!

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:27 am

compelling and rich wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Doesn't look like Ireland will make 100, let alone 182.

Woakes bang on the money.

50 is looking tough

Aye, nightmare day for the Irish.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:36 am

Kevin O'Brien's smile at Broad sums this up. It's just the perfect storm for England getting these conditions at the start of the run chase.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:39 am

This is the first test in which both wicketkeepers have made a pair.
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Post by VTR on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:45 am

Such a shame this match wasn't given the full 5 days

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:57 am

38 all out. 6 for Woakes, Broad gets 4.

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Post by alfie on Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:58 am

Went south quickly for Ireland today didn't it ?

Conditions helped. But largely England's bowlers really turned up this morning. Settled any doubts re the Ashes attack , I think. Woakes was well off in the first innings but bounced back in a big way today clap 6/17... That's more the Lord's bowler we know !

Fifteen overs to wrap it up Shocked

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Post by VTR on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:00 am

Well you have to say, that match was absolute garbage. Or course I'm relieved as an England fan that we weren't humiliated, but this is not a good advert for Test cricket after some of the quality we saw at the World Cup

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Post by alfie on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:01 am

VTR wrote:Such a shame this match wasn't given the full 5 days

Indeed. Could have had four innings each Smile

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Post by Duty281 on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:15 am

VTR wrote:Well you have to say, that match was absolute garbage. Or course I'm relieved as an England fan that we weren't humiliated, but this is not a good advert for Test cricket after some of the quality we saw at the World Cup

Yep, the standard of batting (both sides) was atrocious. And this could be the future of test cricket - batsmen who don't have a clue on how to grind and build an innings in testing conditions. It's why four day tests will be the future.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:16 am

If you'd told me that at the beginning of the match, Jack Leach would win man of the match after bowling 3 overs for 26 runs in the game, I think I'd have conducted a drug test. Nonsense game
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Post by alfie on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If you'd told me that at the beginning of the match, Jack Leach would win man of the match after bowling 3 overs for 26 runs in the game, I think I'd have conducted a drug test. Nonsense game

Always a risk it would be , given the timing. Still it had its moments...fun for the spectators , couple of good days for the Irish.
And necessary red ball practice for Broad and Woakes. Supposed to be red ball practice for the WC batsmen too but that didn't work out so well Smile Although Roy got a chance to show both sides of his potential for the long game...

Funny lead in to an Ashes series...for both teams. Looking forward to next week but not sure I'd be buying tickets for day five Smile

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Post by VTR on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:52 am

I'd be looking to sell on day 4 tickets as well to be honest!

Australia I think are in better shape for The Ashes, yes they were involved in a low scoring practice match, but the average age of bowling attacks was under 40 and they also faced some deliveries over 75mph. England could barely lay a bat on archetypal division 2 trundlers

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Post by KP_fan on Sat Jul 27, 2019 1:56 am

Conclusions:
1-Eng's specialist batting sucks
2- Eng's bowling is quite good and bowlers can bat quite well too
3- IRE are just......minnows
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