England World Cup Warm Ups

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 11:28 am

First topic message reminder :

Don't expect the snazzy pics produced on better match threads!

England Wales 11th August
Wales England 17th August
England Ireland 24th August
England Italy 6th September.

Squad for the world cup is due 2nd September so theres a chance the 1st 3 could be used for selection purposes and likely to see some combos not considered 1st choice.

BBC saving me typing:

England: Daly; McConnochie, Slade, Francis, Watson; Ford, Heinz; Genge, Cowan-Dickie, Cole, Launchbury, Ewels, Curry, Underhill, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Singleton, Marler, Williams, Kruis, Ludlam, Youngs, Marchant, Cokanasiga.

Wales: L Williams; North, J Davies, Parkes, Adams; Anscombe, G Davies; Smith, Owens, Francis, Beard, Jones, Wainwright, Tipuric, Moriarty.

Replacements: Dee, Jones, Lewis, Ball, Shingler, T Williams, Biggar, Watkin.


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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:36 pm

That's a penalty missed - Wales player picked up from in front of last player to touch ball ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:41 pm

Oh that's not good - Curry off ... hopefully just a precaution

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:46 pm

Anscombe seems to be struggling still - why aren't they getting Biggar on?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:47 pm

Ah OK now finally ...

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Post by EnglishReign on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:50 pm

Heinz looks more like a 50 cap player than a debutant. Great from him so far.

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:51 pm

Brilliant first 20 minutes, pretty poor second 20 minutes. Nice of Wales to gift 7 points right at the end! Hope Curry's injury isn't severe.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:51 pm

Heinz has looked pretty assured, can only hope Curry going off was more precautionary than anything.

Have to say I don't think these matches should have full international status.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:54 pm

Oh dear - Wales will be disappointed with that ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 2:58 pm

Well England have gone better than I expected and will be disappointed to have given a soft 7 from the scrum - even more annoying when it was a bad call by the officials for the knock-on. However Wales will be equally disappointed with their last line-out.

Wales always finish strongly though so it's still anyone's game.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:04 pm

England going well, still have to see Daly catch a ball under any kind of pressure, really worrying as EJ seems stuck on him at 15.

Worries for Curry, unbelievable form, playing his opposite number off the park.

Joseph being a bit greedy, two breaks and not even looking for the pass.

Anscombe will be missed by Wales, Biggar does not have the flair to play that sort of game, will be more solid in defence though.

I want to see what happens when the Welsh replacements have to face up to Williams and Marler, they are struggling at the moment against England's second string.

Lawes also making an impact, especially of AWJ, gives England better lineout options, but can they turn around the calls to bring Lawes more into the the calls.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:05 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Heinz has looked pretty assured, can only hope Curry going off was more precautionary than anything.

Have to say I don't think these matches should have full international status.

Any more so than the ones played during a Lions tour summer?

But yeah Im not reading too much int the scorelines here. Comfortably leading against the number 1 side in the world isn't quite what it might be in the world cup final. Still a good sign that England are on the right track tacticly and that their second string are strong. Nice to see Heinz looking assured and able to execute the England game plan, not a flashy player like Care but his sniping runs just arent what this side is looking to play off.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:17 pm

That's what happens when you give 3 pens away one after the other ...

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:18 pm

now 4 ... jeez

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:19 pm

did someone tread on the ref's toe?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:21 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Heinz has looked pretty assured, can only hope Curry going off was more precautionary than anything.

Have to say I don't think these matches should have full international status.

Any more so than the ones played during a Lions tour summer?

But yeah Im not reading too much int the scorelines here. Comfortably leading against the number 1 side in the world isn't quite what it might be in the world cup final. Still a good sign that England are on the right track tacticly and that their second string are strong. Nice to see Heinz looking assured and able to execute the England game plan, not a flashy player like Care but his sniping runs just arent what this side is looking to play off.  

I don't those games should be full internationals either, getting capped because fourteen or more players are elsewhere isn't what it's about.


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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:28 pm

surely a knock-on there?

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:32 pm

rubbish kick

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:50 pm

Well not what I expected - maybe I should have more faith ...

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Post by Duty281 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

Solid, morale-boosting win, but Wales were well short of par.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:52 pm

Well that was an unexpected thrashing. Fair play England.
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Post by Shifty on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:53 pm

Wow, looks like us Welsh are back down to earth with a big bump!

I was actually expecting a big win for us today. This will be a good kick up the backside and will focus few minds.
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Post by stub on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:56 pm

Very promising display from England there. Wales didn't look fully up to standard but still very encouraging from an England perspective.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:56 pm

Good showing Watson and JJ coming back, can't read too much into from a Wales perspective, intensity wasn't that high which was to be expected with a team made up players guaranteed to be selected, more a fitness work out than anything.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:56 pm

Do you think Wales let the pressure of keeping their record and being No.1 get to them?
Apart from a few phases they seemed a bit off their game?

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Post by EnglishReign on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:56 pm

Great effort today. Hopefully Anscombe and Curry can get back to full fitness for Japan.

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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:57 pm

Shifty wrote:Wow, looks like us Welsh are back down to earth with a big bump!

I was actually expecting a big win for us today.  This will be a good kick up the backside and will focus few minds.

Your forwards, especially the front row, just looked off the pace. I wonder if perhaps the tapering after the heavy fitness sessions has yet to happen. That could explain why they looked so heavy legged. When they had the ball your backs looked dangerous but made far too many handling mistakes.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:58 pm

Oh wow, this England team deserves a lot of credit for that. Haven’t seen the match but it seems we were particularly outdone.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:58 pm

EnglishReign wrote:Great effort today. Hopefully Anscombe and Curry can get back to full fitness for Japan.

Hopefully both precautionary but it looked like they kept Anscombe on too long after it was clear he wasn't right.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 3:59 pm

Heaf wrote:Do you think Wales let the pressure of keeping their record and being No.1 get to them?  
Apart from a few phases they seemed a bit off their game?

New Zealand are No 1 according to the WR rankings.
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Post by Heaf on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:01 pm

Yes but Wales were temporarily and would have held on if they'd won or drawn today ...

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:01 pm

Still things to work on, but for a second string that was awesome.

Wales did their usual thing and looked like they had just come out of hibernation, they won't be that sleepy again. It took them 25 minutes to wake up, buy them 14 point s down.

England showed they can defend a lead and come back and score more when under pressure, so hopefully they hav eput last season to rest.

Lawes was immense when he came on, b=not in he same way as Curry, but shored up the defence and made a lot of crunching tackles, AWJ will need extra time in the ice bath as a result.

I thought England looked better with Heinz on than Youngs, he kicks as well and his distribution is better.

When you think that we have the likes of Manu, May, Itoje, Mako, Underhill, Farrell still to come, the future is bright and looking white.

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Post by Shifty on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:03 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Shifty wrote:Wow, looks like us Welsh are back down to earth with a big bump!

I was actually expecting a big win for us today.  This will be a good kick up the backside and will focus few minds.

Your forwards, especially the front row, just looked off the pace. I wonder if perhaps the tapering after the heavy fitness sessions has yet to happen. That could explain why they looked so heavy legged. When they had the ball your backs looked dangerous but made far too many handling mistakes.

It's probably more of a case of all our players going through the motions in the Pro 14 at the end of last season and being assured of their world cup places, then having a shock at having to play a hungry English team with players fighting for their World Cup places.  Clearly we were not busting a gut today or trying to prove any points.

In hindsight this is probably not a bad thing, Wales going into a World cup with expectation normally means were out in the pool stage. Where as with no pressure were in the semis. So hopefully most Welsh fans will get a more realistic perception of where Wales are as a rugby nation... essentially it's not rank 1 !


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Post by Gooseberry on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:05 pm

The most surprising bit was how well England responded to Wales getting right back in it and having the momentum and most of the game was being played in Englands half. Too many times recently they've fallen apart late on when under pressure, perhaps partly as a result of the defence heavy game they play.
The last time they played Wales had 65% possession, this time just 55%. England kicked a slightly lower percentage of their possession but overall neither team seems to have changed anything fundamental in their approach, the difference in results perhaps down to execution and intensity this time around. Im sure the Welsh will blame it on a hangover from the super intense training camps and take comfort in the idea that this is just part of them peaking for the cup itself.

Cant read too much into this but it will relieve some pressure on Jones and keep the "first choice" players on their toes.


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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:13 pm

Well done England great game very impressive that Watson looks very good, great to see him fit again.

Feel sorry for Eddie Jones now, he’s going to have a few selection headaches

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:16 pm

Good hit out for England. The back row of Lawes, Ludlam and Vunipola wasn't the most balanced but it did look fierce in defence. Set piece functioned well, especially the scrum, and the backs looked lively.

A good result and performance for England first up. I expect we'll see some changes to the starting line-up now and a slightly stronger team take the field in Cardiff.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 4:26 pm

One other thought (with my Saints hat on) Ludlum did not look at all out of place at 6 or when Curry went off at 7. For a guy with under 30 first team appearances he looked like he belonged from the moment he took the first kick off.

England really have serious strength in depth at 6 and 7 these days.

Mind you I loved the last 10 minutes or so when England had 4 locks playing, Wales did not know what to do in the pack, just getting marched back until the ref blew the whistle.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:01 pm

Heaf wrote:Well not what I expected - maybe I should have more faith ...

Wales' big wins recently have all been at home though havent they? Its pretty tough to get a win in Twickers. I wouldnt be too disheartened about it. Navidi missing is a bit of a loss for Wales.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:10 pm

Now we will see if there was an arrangement between EJ and Gats as to selection for each game. After that Gats cannot afford to put out a weakened side against what will probably be a pretty much full strength England.

Two defeats in the warm ups, against the side they are likely to meet in the QF would be a big blow to Welsh confidence.

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Post by Cumbrian on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:12 pm

I know it sounds conceited, but that felt fairly comfortable to me (as England games go!).  It is especially pleasing considering that we lost our best player fairly early on (Curry was taking the Welsh back-row to the cleaners.).  I was a little concerned when we had to play two second-rows in the flankers with 10-15 minutes to go, but England proceeded to beef the Welsh scrum, so it didn't matter.

I did have a couple of concerns, the wide defence was a little fragile.  I think a better  team than Wales, like New Zealand or Australia, would have finished those chances off.

I don't know how many times I have said this, Daly is NOT a fullback, his defence woeful and borders on pathetic (in that position).

I am not sure what Francis brings, would love to see England go back to the Ford/Farrell axis.  It is in't like we have loads of amazing 12 waiting in the wings.  I just think that Ford is a better 10.  Farrell is more reliable, but Ford unlocks defences.  Our record against Wales is so much better with Ford at ten.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:14 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Two defeats in the warm ups, against the side they are likely to meet in the QF would be a  big blow to Welsh confidence.

We were told similar in the last World Cup, so I doubt it.

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Post by No 8 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:25 pm

Wow. Easy win vs the nearly first strength wales team.

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:25 pm

Well played England. There were many plus points and a few negatives to take away from today's win.

1) The scrum - this really was very good in the set piece. Genge in particular played well barring his silly dust up and despite being disrupted in the back row after half an hour the pack gelled and took it to their Welsh counterparts, mostly coming out on top. And this from a second string front row. Well done boys.

2) Early intensity. As always England under Jones started quickly, but they pretty much kept that momentum going. It was only a few minor handling errors and some missed tackles leading to Davies' brilliant individual score that kept Wales in the first half. I really did not expect us to be 3 tries to one up in the first half.

3) Coming back from adversity and retaining the lead. It appears that we've learned from our Scottish 2nd half debacle.

4) Those little offloads. Most of the team are doing it, not just the backs. That lovely little palm back from Harry Williams after the Welsh knock-on was superb.

5) Anthony Watson. Welcome back indeed. Surprised he didn't get MOTM. He played very well and got in a full game. JJ was great too.

6) Elliott Daly's cheeky drop goal. Loved that!

7) Good games for Heinz, Ludlam, plus first caps for Marchant and Singleton.

8) The way the scrum performed with 4 locks all on the pitch at once.

Bad things:

1) Missed tackles. Davies exploited too many players off the back of the scrum. Granted, it only happened once, but that was 7 points.

2) Discipline!! Those silly penalties all in a row too. In a world cup game that would be inexcusable. Lawes, Cowan-Dickie, Genge - all unnecessary. STOP IT!

3) Silly little errors. This is a small gripe but going for the offload where it isn't on and little things like Cowan-Dickie's forward pass. Ct those out and we will be very dangerous.

All in all, a very good game - Eddie is going to have some headaches right now. I wonder what price you could have had for Ludlam going to Japan? Bet the likelihood has gone up now!

I am not sure what this may have done to Wales' mental strength. It's put a dent in it for sure. I am expecting a supercharged performance from them next week, especially as they'll be at home. I have to admit to being surprised at Wales not doing so well today as that was pretty much a 1st XV. If England can beat them next week, it's likely that their belief will have taken a hefty knock.


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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:25 pm

It  was a bit of a said day for Wales imo. Wales put out a very strong team against England, and played poorly. But then again regards Wales it was their first game in a long time so might of been expected.

England put out not so strong a team and won with a bit too spare in the end.
Next week will be the difference, playing Wales at home.

It will be a wait and see on the injured next week, who comes in and makes their mark.

Look forward to next week's game and see if England can do it away from home.

Good game from both teams today.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:28 pm

No 8 wrote:Wow. Easy win vs the nearly first strength wales team.

Cyril laughing laughing

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Post by Mr Bounce on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:34 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:It  was a bit of a said day for Wales imo. Wales put out a very strong team against England, and played poorly. But then again regards Wales it was their first game in a long time so might of been expected.

Erm - the same goes for England. I was surprised at Wales' lack of intensity. It'll be different next week, that's for sure. But are Wales simply great when they're at home?? You can't deny it was a poor performance - I for one know that they're better than that. Wales' performances outside Wales worry me. I would like to see them do well in the RWC (except against us of course) but when they're not in Cardiff there's something missing.

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Post by No 8 on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 8 wrote:Wow. Easy win vs the nearly first strength wales team.

Cyril laughing laughing

There are too many england fans banned for you to predict who this is if not a new guy. Incorrect on Cyril anyway. Doesn't take away from the easy win at least.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 5:43 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 8 wrote:Wow. Easy win vs the nearly first strength wales team.

Cyril laughing laughing

Mikey with Australia beating the ALL Blacks and making Wales the( NUMBER 1 TEAM ) in the world ranking's I would of expected Wales to put in a better display then they did today. against a second string England team. Shocked

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 6:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
No 8 wrote:Wow. Easy win vs the nearly first strength wales team.

Cyril laughing laughing

Careful. Trolling will get you banned.
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Post by RDW on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 6:06 pm

Folks there has been a bit of poo flinging - can we keep it to the rugby.

This is the warning...

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Post by The Oracle on Sun 11 Aug 2019, 6:07 pm

Congrats England. Had a sneaky feeling you’d win, regardless of Wales 1st team vs England mixed. clap

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