New Zealand vs South Africa - Pool B Game 1 - 21st September 2019

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 24 Jul 2019, 5:31 pm

First topic message reminder :

Erasmus has made 12 changes to the Springbok team that beat Australia, with Vermeulen back as captain. This team is arguably their strongest right now which is why this fixture has peaked my interest. It’ll be interesting to see how the AB selectors respond.

Springboks team to face New Zealand in Wellington:

Willie le Roux, Cheslin Kolbe, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi, Handré Pollard, Faf de Klerk, Duane Vermeulen, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Kwagga Smith, Franco Mostert, Eben Etzebeth, Frans Malherbe, Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff. Replacements: Bongi Mbonambi, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, R.G. Snyman, Francois Louw, Herschel Jantjies, Frans Steyn, Jesse Kriel.

https://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/27247481/duane-vermeulen-lead-springboks-all-blacks

All Blacks:

1. Joe Moody (37)
2. Codie Taylor (41)
3. Owen Franks (106)
4. Brodie Retallick (76)
5. Samuel Whitelock (108)
6. Shannon Frizell (4)
7. Matt Todd (17)
8. Kieran Read - captain (118)
9. TJ Perenara (55)
10. Richie Mo’unga (9)
11. Rieko Ioane (24)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (51)
13. Jack Goodhue (7)
14. Ben Smith (77)
15. Beauden Barrett (74)
16. Dane Coles (61)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (27)
18. Angus Ta’avao (4)
19. Vaea Fifita (10)
20. Dalton Papalii (2)
21. Aaron Smith (83)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (34)
23. George Bridge (1)


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 5:57 pm

ebop wrote:Step aside Guns, you’re not from Wales

Well at least we havent lost two this year already. Wales have the better record, though like the england run, it didnt include us.

If the doubts are creeping in now, wait for the friendlys...the predictions will be all over the place once they start Laugh

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Post by Pie on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 6:20 pm

Yay you get to share the plaudits, we know NZ regard that as a sporting outcome dont we!

ABs making all the play but not scoring? Ah of course, scratch this one up to being reffed out of the game. Shipping a try in the last moments of a game. Oh dear.

One day an AB fan will just say 'the other team was better'

Never known a less sporting nation.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 6:26 pm

No you havent but I dont think your last 4 performances are enough to inspire massive amounts of confidence. NZ are still of course a really good team but the cockiness rests on weaker foundations at the moment in my view.


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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 8:35 pm

Pie wrote:Yay you get to share the plaudits, we know NZ regard that as a sporting outcome dont we!

ABs making all the play but not scoring? Ah of course, scratch this one up to being reffed out of the game. Shipping a try in the last moments of a game. Oh dear.

One day an AB fan will just say 'the other team was better'

Never known a less sporting nation.

Making all the play? Didnt see that in the first half, did you? Common criticism of the match during and after was how the boks were only able to manage 6 with all that possession.

Reffed out of the game? Make that up? Or are you going back decades?

Other team was better? Ok, they were better...oh, hang on, the boks scored at the bell and needed a conversion to draw. Ok then.

Less sporting nation?

Pass. No time for envy. What does tgat even mean? Laugh

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Post by maestegmafia on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:01 pm

Rugby at this stage is about finding your depth, your first team and what you are capable of doing, so no one can read too much into anything before the RWC but the ABs are not firing on all cylinders at the moment, one more uninspiring match and the kiwis will start to worry.

Two weeks to make it work before the Wallabies in Perth

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 27 Jul 2019, 10:40 pm

We know we are temporarily looking after the Work cup until the next side wins it, even if it is the next NZ side. It was previously a sense of frustration when NZ were perpetually the strongest side for most of the time and kept missing out, ‘for a number of reasons’.
If NZ dont win it this year it wont be a huge drama as in a way weve had a good run of it. Back to back holders was a first and three would be a massive effort.

But things move on, coach will be gone as will the rest of the experience that won the first two. Starting afresh without the trophy mans a full new focus, nw players, ideas, and even a whole new generation of fans.

Whoever wins it will be very deserving as even as fans we know how hard this tournament is to win. Its three match knock out nature is tough. The winner will have to be resourceful, and will need a lot of luck.

This year its the very experience of having lost it, then won it that will serve Hansen most. If they dont get there, theres something to chase again in four years. Wouldnt be saying that if we still hadnt won it in 11 and 15.

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Post by ebop on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 12:52 am

Taylorman wrote:We know we are temporarily looking after the Work cup until the next side wins it, even if it is the next NZ side. It was previously a sense of frustration when NZ were perpetually the strongest side for most of the time and kept missing out, ‘for a number of reasons’.
If NZ dont win it this year it wont be a huge drama as in a way weve had a good run of it. Back to back holders was a first and three would be a massive effort.

But things move on, coach will be gone as will the rest of the experience that won the first two. Starting afresh without the trophy mans a full new focus, nw players, ideas, and even a whole new generation of fans.

Whoever wins it will be very deserving as even as fans we know how hard this tournament is to win. Its three match knock out nature is tough. The winner will have to be resourceful, and will need a lot of luck.

This year its the very experience of having lost it, then won it that will serve Hansen most. If they dont get there, theres something to chase again in four years. Wouldnt be saying that if we still hadnt won it in 11 and 15.
Well said Tman OK

At this point I’m wallowing in gravy

But appreciate this ABs era and know it’s been a golden one
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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 1:55 am

Yea weve been lucky. Especially with the sweeping changes, player movement happening all around.

I like where we are at. Beating France 61-9 three months before lising to them in 2007 is exactly where we dont want to be now. The biggest thing this side has learned about winning is, how to lose and how to learn from losing.

Good to see Retallick has no serious damage, so gets a rest before the world cup. Hopefully is right just after the SA pool match. We just need to get the knockouts out of him now.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 2:08 am

I didn’t think the ref reffed anyone out of the game. It was a good game to watch, a very fast one to officiate too so the ref did very well.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 2:14 am

Taylorman wrote:Difference between the boks and every other side is their ethnic make up, which is slowly but surely taking on a lesser white dominated look. And that suggests a bigger participation in the game is starting to happen.

One saw it in the sevens over the last ten years and now its going the same way in the top side. They have reasonable options in both Europe and the SH for their player base and give them ten to 20 years, another generation of players, children of children born in the post apartheid era and you could have a dominant nation in the sport like never before.

Not sure, each side seems to have a few Pacific Islanders these days. I don’t really care much for selecting players on skin colour but it seems South Africa has definitely grown the sport among the black population in the last 10-15 years. I noticed some of their recent U20 black guys were good players and big guys, you would formerly only see that in their boer guys.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 2:53 am

Well they have a quota so theyre moving from having to meet the minimum numbers with lesser players theyre now able to pick better ones as players take up the game more. This was inevitable, reason being because rugby is a wonderful physical team sport, and appeals to those ethnic groups that have a strong wider family or cultural influence.

Thats why Pacific Islanders flock to it as well. Commonality with others both on and off the field appeals, particularly in a white dominated world. I dont know what the African influences are but there are similarities.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 3:03 am

Overall very substandard showing by all four SH sides last night. Not having the usual June series to prepare for the RC along with the fact that coaches are experimenting, everyones understandably not in full test mode yet. ABs tried to run everything but skills are tuned enough to match they thinking. Oz faired better, the Pumas I think finally hit a wall after collectively hauling themselves across the Southern henisphere all year, one time too many.

Good thing is theyll all get better. Because they have to.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 6:49 am

Taylorman wrote:Overall very substandard showing by all four SH sides last night. Not having the usual June series to prepare for the RC along with the fact that coaches are experimenting, everyones understandably not in full test mode yet. ABs tried to run everything but skills are tuned enough to match they thinking. Oz faired better, the Pumas I think finally hit a wall after collectively hauling themselves across the Southern henisphere all year, one time too many.

Good thing is theyll all get better. Because they have to.

So going on what we have seen so far, so you think that the four SH teams are ranked about right at the moment on the WR rankings?

I guess on Monday SA will gain a place after the draw.

There really doesn’t seem to be a huge gap in skills and ability in the top ten at the moment. The teams look very even hopefully making this RWC a cracking spectacle. Can’t wait..!

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 7:33 am

I dont buy that the current rankings will reflect the world cup finish, ie that it will be a NZ Wales final, something Im sure youll very much look forward to, nor that NZ will be the only SH side in the semis.

Its a possibility, and if the current rankings werent influenced so heavily by the need for SH sides to continually replenish their sides after either super rugby or when the RC or world cup finishes before the go north to the AIs, which without them the rankings would look very different, then a three Or even four NH semis might be a good bet.

But this year the southern sides will be more robust than usual. Players are returning where they dont in non world cup years. That makes the current rankings deceptive in my book. The AIs 2016-2018 have provided the bulk of those rankings.

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Post by maestegmafia on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 7:44 am

Taylorman wrote:I dont buy that the current rankings will reflect the world cup finish, ie that it will be a NZ Wales final, something Im sure youll very much look forward to, nor that NZ will be the only SH side in the semis.

Its a possibility, and if the current rankings werent influenced so heavily by the need for SH sides to continually replenish their sides after either super rugby or when the RC or world cup finishes before the go north to the AIs, which without them the rankings would look very different, then a three Or even four NH semis might be a good bet.

But this year the southern sides will be more robust than usual. Players are returning where they dont in non world cup years. That makes the current rankings deceptive in my book. The AIs 2016-2018 have provided the bulk of those rankings.

More a comment on my behalf that the top ten are reasonably closely matched rather than the top three being streets ahead of the competition as in previous years.

I certainly wouldn’t like to predict a Wales vs NZ final. There are far too many permutations.

As you said, a number of players returning to SH teams for the RWC will help. Though to be honest it hasn’t massively improved them so far, we will probably see big improvements in France too now that the coaches actually get players for a decent period rather than ten minutes in the changing room before an international to wish the team good luck.

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Post by Taylorman on Sun 28 Jul 2019, 8:37 am

maestegmafia wrote:
Taylorman wrote:I dont buy that the current rankings will reflect the world cup finish, ie that it will be a NZ Wales final, something Im sure youll very much look forward to, nor that NZ will be the only SH side in the semis.

Its a possibility, and if the current rankings werent influenced so heavily by the need for SH sides to continually replenish their sides after either super rugby or when the RC or world cup finishes before the go north to the AIs, which without them the rankings would look very different, then a three Or even four NH semis might be a good bet.

But this year the southern sides will be more robust than usual. Players are returning where they dont in non world cup years. That makes the current rankings deceptive in my book. The AIs 2016-2018 have provided the bulk of those rankings.

More a comment on my behalf that the top ten are reasonably closely matched rather than the top three being streets ahead of the competition as in previous years.

I certainly wouldn’t like to predict a Wales vs NZ final. There are far too many permutations.

As you said, a number of players returning to SH teams for the RWC will help. Though to be honest it hasn’t massively improved them so far, we will probably see big improvements in France too now that the coaches actually get players for a decent period rather than ten minutes in the changing room before an international to wish the team good luck.

Oh youve got it right there, it certainly looks like it hasnt helped, and maybe its wishful thinking on my part. The reality is our national sides are dealing in chaos as a rule these days. We travel thousands of miles all year in every comp we play in, we dont know years end who will still be here, unless we get them contracted, which means building depth between world cups is a nightmare.

Some players leave simply because they dont look likely to make the ABs when it might take some an extra year to make the grade. When theyre gone everyone still wants to be at the world cup, even if that is a chance to build their profile for bigger $$.

So yes things could be as bad as they seem, understandable that one of oz or SA might drop form but both in three years, far too much in play to be coincidental with the numbers leaving.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 11:38 am

Lots of chat in NZ over who should start at ten.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/114604723/mark-reason-why-beauden-barrett-must-hand-richie-mounga-the-crown#comments

What I couldnt figure out is why Barrett, an inferior kicker to Mo'unga was given the kicking duties on Saturday? Ok sometimes it does get exaggerated how good or bad a goal kicker Barrett is but if you are going to trust Mo'unga to start at 10 why not trust him to take the kicks too?

Maybe if they had NZ might have won the game as Barrett missed a fairly standard kick early on and one later in the game.

Barrett also cheats when he lines the ball up for kicks stealing at least a few metres in one case albeit by moving it forward he only made the angle tighter. This is something Barrett also did v Argentina. If anything this just highlights a lack of confidence he has in his own kicking.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155533004535672832

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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 12:08 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Lots of chat in NZ over who should start at ten.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/114604723/mark-reason-why-beauden-barrett-must-hand-richie-mounga-the-crown#comments

What I couldnt figure out is why Barrett, an inferior kicker to Mo'unga was given the kicking duties on Saturday? Ok sometimes it does get exaggerated how good or bad a goal kicker Barrett is but if you are going to trust Mo'unga to start at 10 why not trust him to take the kicks too?

Maybe if they had NZ might have won the game as Barrett missed a fairly standard kick early on and one later in the game.

Barrett also cheats when he lines the ball up for kicks stealing at least a few metres in one case albeit by moving it forward he only made the angle tighter. This is something Barrett also did v Argentina. If anything this just highlights a lack of confidence he has in his own kicking.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1155533004535672832

Ach your bit on Barrett stealing a yard for a kick indicating a lack of confidence is a bit outlandish.

Every. single. kicker. steals yards. Watch sexton, laidlaw, Farrell closely in their games, they steal yards all the time!

But yeh, would agree with you about being confused as to Mo'unga wasn't kicking, thought his successful kick % was better in super rugby than barrett? why not give him a shot at this level to prove he's got the nerve to make them, Barretts been given ample opportunity and tends to fluff them when they are most needed

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 12:36 pm

I agree that all kickers steal a yard here or there but Barrett stole meters not a yard. What he did is worse than I've seen other kickers do.

The mark is on the 22 line. First he rolls it forward then kicks it forward then places it forward until its about 3 meters beyond the original mark.

Do you think it is also a coincidence that Read starts talking to the ref while walking away from the ball as the ball is being placed? Maybe, maybe not.

It also wasn't a long kick to start with.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 3:47 pm

I don’t think it’s really a massive issue with kickers stealing yards. But if it is the referee could use the temporary spray like in football to mark the spot.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 10:15 pm

Two reasons I can think of in terms of why Barrett kicked first. One, to allow Mo'unga to focus on his first start at 10 in an important test. Judging by his two charge downs, he needed it. It was al about giving him confidence. In that respect, Barrett was an able kicker who missed one narrowly.

Second, Barrett is considered the incumbant kicker. In Super rugby he had 46 from 57 (80.7) success rate, Mo'unga had 65 from 84 (77.38%) so despite peoples perceptions (once again) the better goalkicker going into the test was Barrett.

It is also a perception that barrett misses on the big occasions.
Since 2016 when he became the regular kicker he has lost on 4 occasions from 41 starts.

One was Chicago. His goalkicking was not a feature there. One was the Lions. It was one of the features of the loss, but certainly not the only one. He also featured highly in the first test win.
The others were SA in Wellington where it certainly was a feature, probably the only occasion where if kicks had gone over we would have at least drawn as the final one hit the post, and NZ won the RC anyway, the other being Ireland last year, Barrett got 2/2 plus a dropped goal.

So, at best, 2. with Barrett hardly missing a kick for the rest of the season after SA:

Arg: 5 from 5 (100%)
SA; 5 from 6 (83%)
Oz 5/7 (71%)
Eng: 3/3 (100%) plus a DG (Eng 67%)
Ire (2/2) (100%)plus DG (Ire 100%)
Italy (8/10) (approx 80%) (Mo'unga got 3)
Then argie and SA in 2019


Bar oz at 5 from 7 Barrett had probably the best test % after the SA test in 2018.

So within the 37 wins his goalkicking either contributed significantly enough to win or wasnt required.

Perceptions huh?

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 30 Jul 2019, 11:11 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
But yeh, would agree with you about being confused as to Mo'unga wasn't kicking, thought his successful kick % was better in super rugby than barrett? why not give him a shot at this level to prove he's got the nerve to make them, Barretts been given ample opportunity and tends to fluff them when they are most needed

Not really, neither being the case. Barrett pipped Mo'unga in Super rugby and has kicked more at test level. I think hansen was just trying out the Barrett/ Mo'unga playmaker combo, which, was largely unsuccessful due to Mo'unga not coping with the faster test requirements until the second half, when things are generally a yard off the start pace.

Goalkicking at this stage is neither here nor there. They know Mo'unga can kick goals and its the 10 role that is more critical to the AB game. Hansen wont lose a wink over the missed kicks from that match.

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Post by Pie on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 3:18 am

I reckon Barrett is kicking because he is better at cheating

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 5:35 am

That’s good, you obviously don’t know Mo’unga then.

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Post by Tramptastic on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 8:21 am

Taylorman wrote:Two reasons I can think of in terms of why Barrett kicked first. One, to allow Mo'unga to focus on his first start at 10 in an important test. Judging by his two charge downs, he needed it. It was al about giving him confidence. In that respect, Barrett was an able kicker who missed one narrowly.

Second, Barrett is considered the incumbant kicker. In Super rugby he had 46 from 57 (80.7) success rate, Mo'unga had 65 from 84 (77.38%) so despite peoples perceptions (once again) the better goalkicker going into the test was Barrett.

It is also a perception that barrett misses on the big occasions.
Since 2016 when he became the regular kicker he has lost on 4 occasions from 41 starts.

One was Chicago. His goalkicking was not a feature there. One was the Lions. It was one of the features of the loss, but certainly not the only one. He also featured highly in the first test win.
The others were SA in Wellington where it certainly was a feature, probably the only occasion where if kicks had gone over we would have at least drawn as the final one hit the post, and NZ won the RC anyway, the other being Ireland last year, Barrett got 2/2 plus a dropped goal.

So, at best, 2. with Barrett hardly missing a kick for the rest of the season after SA:

Arg: 5 from 5 (100%)
SA; 5 from 6 (83%)
Oz 5/7 (71%)
Eng: 3/3 (100%) plus a DG (Eng 67%)
Ire (2/2) (100%)plus DG (Ire 100%)
Italy (8/10) (approx 80%) (Mo'unga got 3)
Then argie and SA in 2019


Bar oz at 5 from 7 Barrett had probably the best test % after the SA test in 2018.

So within the 37 wins his goalkicking either contributed significantly enough to win or wasnt required.

Perceptions huh?

You can prove anything with facts!

That's a good breakdown though, that lions test must just stick in the mind for six nations fans!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 9:06 am

Well Barrett can definitely add this one to his list of botched tests kicking wise although as I said before it does get exaggerated at times how bad his kicking is. 2 misses from 4 though is not a good return and was the difference between a loss and a draw albeit Pollard missed one too which I thought SA should have sent down the line. Rassie also mentioned it in his presser. NZ were on the rack and conceding penalty after penalty. SA should have turned the screw at that point as it was next stop the bin for NZ infringers.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:13 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Well Barrett can definitely add this one to his list of botched tests kicking wise although as I said before it does get exaggerated at times how bad his kicking is. 2 misses from 4 though is not a good return and was the difference between a loss and a draw albeit Pollard missed one too which I thought SA should have sent down the line. Rassie also mentioned it in his presser. NZ were on the rack and conceding penalty after penalty. SA should have turned the screw at that point as it was next stop the bin for NZ infringers.

Yes agree with that, the underlying thing to all this is more important than any of it is what Hansen and co are trying to achieve from the match, as with Argie and I believe in Perth.

He had to cull five players so it was more important to find out who they should be. For fans the result still sits at the forefront but Id say Hansen wasnt concerned one bit about goalkicking for this match. The form of Karl T, Reiko, Read, Frizzell, Mo’unga at start, SBW all very concerning at this point and frankly thats still the case. Results wise, Boks have now gone +2, -2, 0 last three vs ABs, and how we beat them in SA last year Ill never know, and in dealing to oz with a b side are looking good in terms of depth. Id put them ahead at this stage.

Oz and argie both lost to b SA and NZ sides so look a bit behind but i wouldnt be surprised if oz win in Perth under more experimentation, one thing Im fairly confident of is they wont win at Eden park. Hansen will want a win at all costs effort there, no more experimenting, knockout dress rehearsal, best side, all out.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:48 am

NZ will hammer Australia by more than 20 points. Ill be interested to see how the SA v Argentina game goes. Oddly SA's away form is bad everywhere except in NZ so a good result v Argentina really will be a sign they have turned a corner.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 9:15 pm

Argie are just as bad at home as SA are away so yeah, a battle of the worsts. Based on results to date SA should bolt in, the seconds beating oz easily who beat the Pumas, but again, depends on what Rassie wasnt from the match.

Also depends how experimental Hansen is in Perth- and I think he's still short many answers- but agree at Eden park, no reason he wont want his genuine effort there. One of these occasions must be non experimental, and more realistic.

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Post by Cyril on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 9:45 pm

NZ will always be strong and regardless of finishing 1st or 2nd in the RC will still be favourites for the RWC. SA looking much, much better. Aus are improving but time will tell if that’s enough to mount a challenge in the Autumn. I think Argentina will be spent after too much game time for their top players in Super Rugby and the RC. Bottom of this tournament and England and France will roll them over in the RWC.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:39 pm

The video squidge video highlights a great move from the Boks

https://youtu.be/tZWx6Rv9b-Y

From 1:55

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Post by Cyril on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:46 pm

That vid could have been about 30s. Guns, you and your other millennials having to drag things out with memes and whatevers.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:51 pm

I wish I was a millennial.

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Post by Cyril on Wed 31 Jul 2019, 10:56 pm

A millennial is a badge not just an age.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 7:26 am

Ill take your word for it Cyril.

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Post by ebop on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 1:51 pm

Squidge is a reddit hero that panders to the kids. That was a forward pass to 14 wasn’t it? Not that I care, it was great seeing SA celebrate that draw as if they’d won the game.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 01 Aug 2019, 1:54 pm

ebop wrote:Squidge is a reddit hero that panders to the kids. That was a forward pass to 14 wasn’t it? Not that I care, it was great seeing SA celebrate that draw as if they’d won the game.

You mean the pass from LeRoux to Kolbe which set up the "winning try"? looked forward to me at the time.

Thought the cut out pass from Faf to the wing was a great move earlier in the game and evidence that SA have under Rassie a few well thought out tricks in their armory that were completely lacking in the last few years.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 9:45 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:Squidge is a reddit hero that panders to the kids. That was a forward pass to 14 wasn’t it? Not that I care, it was great seeing SA celebrate that draw as if they’d won the game.

You mean the pass from LeRoux to Kolbe which set up the "winning try"? looked forward to me at the time.

Thought the cut out pass from Faf to the wing was a great move earlier in the game and evidence that SA have under Rassie a few well thought out tricks in their armory that were completely lacking in the last few years.

In a World Cup year too...how...fortunate... Laugh

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 8:37 am

Boks first team is selected

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cheslin Kolbe, 13 Lukhanyo Am, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Makazole Mapimpi, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 6 Siya Kolisi (c), 5 Franco Mostert, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Malcolm Marx, 1 Steven Kitshoff
Replacements: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Tendai Mtawarira, 18 Trevor Nyakane, 19 RG Snyman, 20 Francois Louw, 21 Herschel Jantjies, 22 Frans Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel


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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:01 am

Oh look Taylorman, Frans Steyn is covering 10 again just like he did v NZ in the rugby championship. I see plenty of attention coming Pollards way.

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 9:38 am

The nz herald seems to think this is a decent pick.

When’s the ABs team announced?

Can’t wait for this game..

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Post by hugehandoff on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 5:50 pm

Does the likely loss of Retallick swing this SAs way? Does he make a significant difference? I think it just might do and I could see both sides contesting the final and if Retallick is back then I would back NZ to make it 3 in a row.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 8:23 pm

hugehandoff wrote:Does the likely loss of Retallick swing this SAs way? Does he make a significant difference? I think it just might do and I could see both sides contesting the final and if Retallick is back then I would back NZ to make it 3 in a row.

I dont think it makes a difference. Retallick in my view has been off form for about two years now so Whitelock is their key man now in the second row and Barrett is a good player so no loss in quality.

I reckon NZ are going to win by two scores reasonably comfortably.

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Post by Pie on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:16 pm

SA may just hammer them

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:21 pm

Fairly unlikely, SA have hammered them maybe a couple of times in 100 games.

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Post by quinsforever on Wed 18 Sep 2019, 10:28 pm

cracking group match. can't wait. of course, its very possible to lose and still win the tournament. and there are no "easy" sides to the draw, so as long as both go through they will probably still fancy their chances of getting to the final

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 2:07 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Oh look Taylorman, Frans Steyn is covering 10 again just like he did v NZ in the rugby championship. I see plenty of attention coming Pollards way.

Not starting though is he, which was my only point.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 3:42 am

The matchday 23:
1. Joe Moody (41)
2. Dane Coles (64)
3. Nepo Laulala (20)
4. Samuel Whitelock (112)
5. Scott Barrett (32)
6. Ardie Savea (34)
7. Sam Cane (63)
8. Kieran Read - captain (122)
9. Aaron Smith (87)
10. Richie Mo’unga (12)
11. George Bridge (5)
12. Ryan Crotty (45)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (38)
14. Sevu Reece (3)
15. Beauden Barrett (78)
16. Codie Taylor (45)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (30)
18. Angus Ta’avao (8)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (25)
20. Shannon Frizell (5)
21. TJ Perenara (59)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (53)
23. Ben Smith (80)

Good to see the no. 1 midfield pair finally together. Gotta be one of the lightest sides they've fielded, certainly a side built for speed. Didnt think I'd see Ben Smith on the bench this soon but a good sign of those coming through

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 7:49 am

Taylorman wrote:The matchday 23:
1. Joe Moody (41)
2. Dane Coles (64)
3. Nepo Laulala (20)
4. Samuel Whitelock (112)
5. Scott Barrett (32)
6. Ardie Savea (34)
7. Sam Cane (63)
8. Kieran Read - captain (122)
9. Aaron Smith (87)
10. Richie Mo’unga (12)
11. George Bridge (5)
12. Ryan Crotty (45)
13. Anton Lienert-Brown (38)
14. Sevu Reece (3)
15. Beauden Barrett (78)
16. Codie Taylor (45)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (30)
18. Angus Ta’avao (8)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (25)
20. Shannon Frizell (5)
21. TJ Perenara (59)
22. Sonny Bill Williams (53)
23. Ben Smith (80)

Good to see the no. 1 midfield pair finally together. Gotta be one of the lightest sides they've fielded, certainly a side built for speed. Didnt think I'd see Ben Smith on the bench this soon but a good sign of those coming through

Nice to see the Welshman made the squad. Ha ha ha..!

Can’t wait for this match it’s going to be epic.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 19 Sep 2019, 7:58 am

Taylorman wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Oh look Taylorman, Frans Steyn is covering 10 again just like he did v NZ in the rugby championship. I see plenty of attention coming Pollards way.

Not starting though is he, which was my only point.

picard

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