The Rugby World Cup - Japan 2019

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 02 Aug 2019, 10:43 am

First topic message reminder :

We're getting there folks. Less that 50 days to go til lthe big event.

Here's a place to talk about all things world cup as we lead into this most spectacular of events.

https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/

Full fixture list
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/matches

Teams that are going
https://www.rugbyworldcup.com/teams

Pools:

Pool A

Ireland
Scotland
Japan (Hosts)
Russia
Samoa

Pool B

New Zealand (3x cup holders) Reigning champs
South Africa (2x cup holders)
Italy
Namibia
Canada

Pool C

England (1x cup holders)
France
Argentina
USA
Tonga

Pool D

Australia (2x cup holders)
Wales
Georgia
Fiji
Uruguay


Who do you think has the best chance?
Who will provide this competition's upset?
What pool will see the biggest fight for qualification?
Which of the non seeded teams are looking like they could do well?
Who has the current momentum going into the W/C?


I can't wait. If I could have swung it, I'd have gone over for it.

Fans mixing together  Hug  and top quality rugby being played over 6 weeks  Yahoo
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Post by robbo277 on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 11:28 am

Collapse2005 wrote:You obviously think Wales will lose to Australia? Good chance they will though they are probably still a better side than Oz.

Yes, if I had to plump now. And this weekend's results probably reenforce that slightly, although I wouldn't be overly surprised if Wales won.

I think both teams are quite evenly matched, but Australia have an extra couple of days rest before the Wales game, which could prove to be the advantage.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 1:00 pm

The Wales vs Oz history would also suggest that Oz would still be considered at least 50/50 in head to heads.

Also given the Oz pedigree in the WC, it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility for Oz to top that group!

I also feel that Wales have been riding the crest of a wave with Gats himself saying that Wales have "forgotten how to lose". Wales were given a reminder on this at the weekend and in tnernational rugby we often see teams going up then coming down. It is entirley possible that this is Wales starting to come down, it's also just as likely that this was a "one off" loss and Wales go back to winning games.

Still say this will be the tightest WC ever and there's a good 4 or 5 teams that could win it.
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Post by robbo277 on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 2:07 pm

tigertattie wrote:The Wales vs Oz history would also suggest that Oz would still be considered at least 50/50 in head to heads.

Also given the Oz pedigree in the WC, it's not entirely beyond the realms of possibility for Oz to top that group!

I also feel that Wales have been riding the crest of a wave with Gats himself saying that Wales have "forgotten how to lose". Wales were given a reminder on this at the weekend and in tnernational rugby we often see teams going up then coming down. It is entirley possible that this is Wales starting to come down, it's also just as likely that this was a "one off" loss and Wales go back to winning games.

Still say this will be the tightest WC ever and there's a good 4 or 5 teams that could win it.

Agreed.

If Fiji and Japan really show up then there are 3 groups where nobody is safe really, along with Group C.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 12 Aug 2019, 3:55 pm

Fiji are an odd one.

They only just scrapped a win against a Samoan side which is looking like it really is going backwards (mostly due to off field politics).

Fiji are very Scottish in that one week they look like they can score against anyone in the world but the next week they look rudderless and all the time have an underpinning of being defensively unorganised!

Japan do have a great shout though as they are on the up and with it being a home tournament, they have every opportunity. Especially against the afore mentioned inconsistent Scotland.

At the sharp end of the competition though, you have NZ, Wales, Ireland, England, SA and Aus all looking like on any day any of them could beat each other

Folk in my office think I’m nuts. Wishing away the summer so the Autumn can get here ASAP!
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Post by LondonTiger on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 3:57 pm

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/casualties-as-conor-oshea-confirms-31-man-italy-rugby-world-cup-squad/

Former England U20 skipper Callum Braley one of 3 SHs selected. Slightly weird that Gloucester have 2 English players in the Italian squad and one kiwi in the England one.

Ian McKinley perhaps the most notable casualty.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 4:14 pm

5 world cups for Parisse is some achievement.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 9:37 am

Collapse2005 wrote:5 world cups for Parisse is some achievement.

Surely he's the only player to rock up to 5 cups?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 9:43 am

I read that Mauro Bergamasco and Brian Lima did it too.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 10:10 pm

https://www.the42.ie/argentina-world-cup-squad-2-4773172-Aug2019/

Ledesma admits that he has favoured domestic based players. Slightly shocked Leguizamon who is a long way past his best is in and Facundo Isa is not.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 19 Aug 2019, 10:19 pm

i kind of expected there to be not a lot if overseas players selected given the success of the Jaguares and the fact that there arent that many really key players playing overseas anyway. Thought Isa might make it though but wouldnt describe it as a shock that he didnt.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 9:35 am

I still dont know what to make of Argentina at this World Cup. They really do look like they have regressed over the last few years and I can't see them making it out of the group this time round!
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:00 am

tigertattie wrote:I still dont know what to make of Argentina at this World Cup. They really do look like they have regressed over the last few years and I can't see them making it out of the group this time round!

I too feel Argentina have regressed. The Jaguares should do well as they are to all intents and purposes the national team participating in a club tournament. This however, for me, weakens the international team as their players are just not being stretched enough - or indeed playing enough. 26 of this squad are from the Jaguares so arguably 11 of them rarely start a game. Two guys selected are from Argentinian club rugby and not deemed good enough for the Jaguares.

Finally trying to adopt the Super Rugby style of play just seems to mean that Argentina now lose more often but at least lose with "style"

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:39 am

Have they not always picked a few guys from Argentinian club rugby? Yeah their test record in the last 4 years is dreadful. However some of theur recent losses have been close enough games.

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Post by robbo277 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:55 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Have they not always picked a few guys from Argentinian club rugby? Yeah their test record in the last 4 years is dreadful. However some of theur recent losses have been close enough games.

In 2015 they had 22 players who had signed for the Jaguares, 8 players from England and France and 3 unattached players who went on to sign for European clubs or Jaguares after the World Cup (makes 33, but includes 2 injury replacements).

Of the players who had signed for Jaguares, a number of them had been returning from spells in Europe. There would have been some who would have gone from Argentine clubs to the World Cup and to Jaguares afterwards, but you'd think that having the Jaguares at home would possibly weaken the clubs, as players have an easier route to top level rugby without going abroad.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 10:55 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Have they not always picked a few guys from Argentinian club rugby? Yeah their test record in the last 4 years is dreadful. However some of theur recent losses have been close enough games.

Yes, but before the Jaguares there was no pro rugby in Argentina. Effectively the two selected are not good enough to get a pro contract for the Jaguares but can make the international side.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:02 am

Its a bit of a stretch to say that they aren't good enough to get a pro contract with the Jaguares given the Jaguares are just one team and there is a limit to how many contracts they can offer to a large enough pool of Argentinian rugby players. It is in my view more a case that better players have taken the available contracts.

I would suspect that these guys do play to a fairly high standard though as although the Argentinian league is not professional their facilities and resources are probably better than a lot of people think. I have visited some of them. Amateur rugby in Argentina has produced some amazing players in the past.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:12 am

Collapse2005 wrote:Its a bit of a stretch to say that they aren't good enough to get a pro contract with the Jaguares given the Jaguares are just one team and there is a limit to how many contracts they can offer to a large enough pool of Argentinian rugby players. It is in my view more a case that better players have taken the available contracts.

If better players have taken contracts with Jaguares, they should be in the national squad.

I am making suppositions, not knowing the abilities of these players, but I do feel that having just a single pro team and as good as ignoring guys playing elsewhere is a massive hindrance to Argentina at the national level. I would also argue that Jaguares have under-performed in SR so far.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:38 am

We Scots have two "top" level teams and we still need to take a good portion of our players from outside of these two clubs.

Not that its been doing us much good though Crying or Very sad
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:40 am

tigertattie wrote:We Scots have two "top" level teams and we still need to take a good portion of our players from outside of these two clubs.

Not that its been doing us much good though Crying or Very sad

With the apparent aversion to travelling you need to host a World Cup.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:43 am

Well, Wales are favourites for the the World Cup according to uncle Eddie. If he says it, it must be true. Very Happy

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 1:53 pm

Ah he's a cheeky wee aussie ain't he.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 4:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
tigertattie wrote:We Scots have two "top" level teams and we still need to take a good portion of our players from outside of these two clubs.

Not that its been doing us much good though Crying or Very sad

With the apparent aversion to travelling you need to host a World Cup.

We could do it. The comp would need to be spread over 6 months though as all games would need played at Murrayfield. We could use the cess pits that are Ibrox, Cetic Park and Hampden, but I'd not want any decent rugby following visitor to our nation to have to venture to Glasgow Doh
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Post by bluestonevedder on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 10:08 am

LordDowlais wrote:Well, Wales are favourites for the the World Cup according to uncle Eddie. If he says it, it must be true. Very Happy

It's all mind games. Every coach does it.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Wed 21 Aug 2019, 10:13 am

The truth is Wales are favorites, well they are one of them anyway. I think they would be pretty confident of beating anyone except NZ.

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Post by Irish Londoner on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 8:07 am

tigertattie wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
tigertattie wrote:We Scots have two "top" level teams and we still need to take a good portion of our players from outside of these two clubs.

Not that its been doing us much good though Crying or Very sad

With the apparent aversion to travelling you need to host a World Cup.

We could do it. The comp would need to be spread over 6 months though as all games would need played at Murrayfield. We could use the cess pits that are Ibrox, Cetic Park and Hampden, but I'd not want any decent rugby following visitor to our nation to have to venture to Glasgow Doh

I was once told on a holiday in Scotland "Edinburgh is where the tourists go, Glasgow is where the Scots go....."

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu 22 Aug 2019, 8:23 am

Irish Londoner wrote:I was once told on a holiday in Scotland "Edinburgh is where the tourists go, Glasgow is where the Scots go....."

Ha, that saying does ring true.

Scotland is my favourite trip of them all, although Murrayfield can be a bit of a treck from the city center, but when I go up, I always stay in Glasgow, I always stay in the Holiday inn on the corner of George Square. Why ? Well Edinburgh is all full of Welsh people, I might as well be in Cardiff. Laugh

On international day, in Scotland, I will see more people out and and about from my home town in Edinburgh, than I would on any normal night out in my own town. It's crazy. laughing

It is much better in Glasgow, as it feels you are on a trip.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 23 Aug 2019, 7:22 am

tigertattie wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
tigertattie wrote:We Scots have two "top" level teams and we still need to take a good portion of our players from outside of these two clubs.

Not that its been doing us much good though Crying or Very sad

With the apparent aversion to travelling you need to host a World Cup.

We could do it. The comp would need to be spread over 6 months though as all games would need played at Murrayfield. We could use the cess pits that are Ibrox, Cetic Park and Hampden, but I'd not want any decent rugby following visitor to our nation to have to venture to Glasgow Doh

I have been to Scotstoun. The walk there from our accommodation was extremely gentrified. Certainly much posher than Saucchiehall Street (sp?) in the late 80s

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Post by tigertattie on Fri 23 Aug 2019, 9:54 am

Dont worry gents, Geroge Foreman (of the famous grill variety), has thrown his wieght behind Scotland to win the World Cup so we're now a shoe in!
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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 1:21 pm

Well. The weekend has certainly made a few folk stop and think!

France and Scotland seem to jsut see saw away, I dont think there is much we can take from that other than what we already knew, both teams are flakey and have away records to hide from!

England destroyed Ireland though. No two ways about it. Will this give Ireland the boot up the backside they need or is this showing the cracks?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 1:23 pm

Probably a bit of both.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 1:28 pm

Regards Ireland, we will see after this week end against Wales. If this week was just a blip, or are Ireland on a downward spiral?

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 2:40 pm

Surely it was a blip? Or are Ireland that heavily reliant on a fit and on form Sexton?

You cant go from Grand slam winning to utter dross in one year??? Munster and Leinster both did well in the club game too.

My prediction is that the Ire vs Wal double header will be one win one loss each (home team winning)
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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 3:45 pm

tigertattie wrote:Surely it was a blip? Or are Ireland that heavily reliant on a fit and on form Sexton?

You cant go from Grand slam winning to utter dross in one year??? Munster and Leinster both did well in the club game too.

My prediction is that the Ire vs Wal double header will be one win one loss each (home team winning)


Lets hope so, Ireland are a far better side than they was last week.

I do agree you cannot go from (Grand Slam winners to utter dross) in one year. But some thing went very wrong on saturday for Ireland.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 11:04 pm

Springboks' 31-man Rugby World Cup squad:
Forwards (17)
Schalk Brits (Bulls), Lood de Jager (Bulls), Pieter-Steph du Toit (Stormers), Eben Etzebeth (Stormers), Steven Kitshoff (Stormers), Vincent Koch (Saracens, England), Siya Kolisi (captain, Stormers), Francois Louw (Bath, England), Frans Malherbe (Stormers), Malcolm Marx (Lions), Bongi Mbonambi (Stormers), Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), Franco Mostert (Gloucester, England), Trevor Nyakane (Bulls), Kwagga Smith (Lions), RG Snyman (Bulls), Duane Vermeulen (Bulls)
Backs (14)
Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Damian de Allende (Stormers), Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England), Warrick Gelant (Bulls), Elton Jantjies (Lions), Herschel Jantjies (Stormers), Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse, France), Jesse Kriel (Bulls), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), S'bu Nkosi (Sharks), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz, Japan), Handre Pollard (Bulls), Cobus Reinach (Northampton Saints, England), Frans Steyn (Montpellier, France)

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 26 Aug 2019, 11:12 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Springboks' 31-man Rugby World Cup squad:
Forwards (17)
Schalk Brits (Bulls), Lood de Jager (Bulls), Pieter-Steph du Toit (Stormers), Eben Etzebeth (Stormers), Steven Kitshoff (Stormers), Vincent Koch (Saracens, England), Siya Kolisi (captain, Stormers), Francois Louw (Bath, England), Frans Malherbe (Stormers), Malcolm Marx (Lions), Bongi Mbonambi (Stormers), Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks), Franco Mostert (Gloucester, England), Trevor Nyakane (Bulls), Kwagga Smith (Lions), RG Snyman (Bulls), Duane Vermeulen (Bulls)
Backs (14)
Lukhanyo Am (Sharks), Damian de Allende (Stormers), Faf de Klerk (Sale Sharks, England), Warrick Gelant (Bulls), Elton Jantjies (Lions), Herschel Jantjies (Stormers), Cheslin Kolbe (Toulouse, France), Jesse Kriel (Bulls), Makazole Mapimpi (Sharks), S'bu Nkosi (Sharks), Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz, Japan), Handre Pollard (Bulls), Cobus Reinach (Northampton Saints, England), Frans Steyn (Montpellier, France)


Well...theres one finalist... Whistle

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 7:36 am

Despite the presence of the octogenarian Schalk Brits that does feel like a squad that is a little short on international experience. Throw in the distractions of Diyanti's drug test (perhaps explaining his absence) and the criminal investigation into Estebeth and it feels like this tournament may have come a year early for SA.

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Post by Taylorman on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 8:02 am

All in the plan LT, all in the plan. those short on international experience sure are playing well. Thinking this squad will be same players that turned up at AI time last year will be a big mistake. Rassies got them organised better than I've seen a Bok squad for a very long time.

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Post by ebop on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:08 am

That SA team will beat Ireland
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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 9:17 am

ebop wrote:That SA team will beat Ireland

They might beat NZ first and not have to even play Ireland. Id say that possible too.

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Post by ebop on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:09 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:That SA team will beat Ireland

They might beat NZ first and not have to even play Ireland. Id say that possible too.
It’s possible, but that SA team would smoke Ireland
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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:16 am

Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast.

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Post by ebop on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:17 am

Mark it in your calendar chief
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 10:23 am

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:That SA team will beat Ireland

They might beat NZ first and not have to even play Ireland. Id say that possible too.
It’s possible, but that SA team would smoke Ireland

A woman's Hockey team would smoke Ireland right now.  Not much kudos in the winning medals against us these days, I'm afraid.

We'll probably beat the bejaysus out of a few fancied chickens from here on in.  Isn't it always the way with Ireland.  When people expect them to be great, they're shyte and vice versa.

Being so shyte since January really is a cathartic experience.  It's exceedingly calming.  If Wales thrash us next, that will only make the serenity deeper.  Truly , the only way is now up.... and it's a very laid back place to be.  You have to just let fate turn the tide when it chooses.  We will wait with patience.

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Post by Pie on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 2:54 pm

SA will beat NZ. And currently I expect they'll play Japan in the 1/4. What a re natch that will be.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 4:53 pm

Pie wrote:SA will beat NZ. And currently I expect they'll play Japan in the 1/4. What a re natch that will be.

Who is missing out for Japan to go through? Irleand or Scotland (or both if Samoa turn up?)?
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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 5:02 pm

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:That SA team will beat Ireland

They might beat NZ first and not have to even play Ireland. Id say that possible too.
It’s possible, but that SA team would smoke Ireland

Thats also possible but they havent smoked Ireland in a long time. Last time SA beat Ireland by more than one score was in 2004 in Newlands when SA won 26-17. That was 11 matches ago. In the meantime Ireland have won v SA by more than a score on 3 occasions since then and won 6 of those 10 games. SA's record v Ireland isnt great.

SA tend to go into every game thinking they will smoke Ireland and it usually doesnt work out like that.


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 5:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 5:05 pm

Japan could repeat 2015 and lose just 1 game yet still miss out on a 1/4 final spot.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 5:29 pm

Felix Jones former Munster, Leinster and Ireland international is set to be announced as SA's attack coach. Worked with Rassie previously in Munster. Good apointment for SA.

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Post by maestegmafia on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 6:12 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Felix Jones former Munster, Leinster and Ireland international is set to be announced as SA's attack coach. Worked with Rassie previously in Munster. Good apointment for SA.

Great opportunity for Felix there. Could be the making of his coaching career. He is still in his early thirties so could go a long way

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Post by Old Man on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 6:46 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
ebop wrote:That SA team will beat Ireland

They might beat NZ first and not have to even play Ireland. Id say that possible too.
It’s possible, but that SA team would smoke Ireland

Thats also possible but they havent smoked Ireland in a long time. Last time SA beat Ireland by more than one score was in 2004 in Newlands when SA won 26-17. That was 11 matches ago. In the meantime Ireland have won v SA by more than a score on 3 occasions since then and won 6 of those 10 games. SA's record v Ireland isnt great.

SA tend to go into every game thinking they will smoke Ireland and it usually doesnt work out like that.

Yet you fail to mention seven of those matches were in Ireland.

The truth of the matter is the current Springbok team is afar cry from the last couple of years, some might say a revival of the Springbok brand.

Better coached, more based on merit selection with better developed and more talented players.

The pack is up there withthe best, the half back pairing up there with the best.

Yes the centre pairing and back three lack experience for the most part, not spectacular or established yet, but should perform well enough.


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