France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

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Post by BigGee on Fri 09 Aug 2019, 8:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

France v Scotland
World Cup Warm Up
Nice
KO 20.00

Live on Premier Sport

Well the first warm up for both teams and you would imagine there might be a fair bit of experimentation on both sides as they try to hone in their squads.

So who might be playing will be complete guesswork and ergo I am going to have a guess at the Scotland team! This might be the only chance for some of the less fancied players in the squad to have a crack though and I fancy he will put them in this week and then a stronger line up next weekend for the home return match:

1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Toolis
6. Barclay (capt)
7. Ritchie
8. Thompson
9. Laidlaw
10. Hastings
11. McGuigan
12. Taylor
13. Harris
14. Rae
15. Kinghorn

Subs:

Reid
Turner
Berghan
Skinner
Strauss
Horne G
Horne P
Hutchinson


Expect a few changes of position within the game as well, especially within the backs!

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Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW wrote:Good to have you back FES btw!

Very kind! I'm like one of those 80s characters in Neighbours who keeps coming back for cameos...

Would be good if John Jeffrey and Finlay Calder would come back for theirs!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:27 pm

RDW wrote:Taylor looks absolutely puggled coming off. Not surprised!

Memories of Ben Atiga's first game for Edinburgh! Not since that memorable debut has a man looked so sorely in need of Oxygen and a seat.

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:32 pm

Fair play to France that was a nice try

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:33 pm

The uncontested up and under. A purely Scottish invention that instigated that try. Hastings having a bit of a mare.

Still, liked the one on one tackle from Graham on that ropey Fijian.

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:36 pm

Zander F has made a good impact

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:38 pm

Penaud is awesome.

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:39 pm

Have we actually done any fitness at all this summer? We're all completely out on our feet

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:39 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Penaud is awesome.

He's so classy - like a young Ben Smith

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:39 pm

I'm going next week. Possibly unwise...

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:42 pm

Huw Jones looks completely disinterested

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:43 pm

Ritchie has has a good 2nd half

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:45 pm

Ritchie has worked really hard. Still needs more time in the gym but he's put in a shift.

Hutchinson looks sharp.

Agree on Huw Jones. What has happened to him??

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:45 pm

Nice bit of play from Hutchinson! He's done more in 5 minutes than Jones in 65

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:53 pm

Matt Fagerson might lack physicality, but he's so much more dynamic than Strauss.

I'd like Hutchinson to start next week.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:58 pm

Looking forward to the craic at Murrayfield next week but not so much the game anymore... Here's hoping for better!
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Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 9:59 pm

Well we can hardly be worse next week, pretty much anything is going to be an improvement on this!

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:04 pm

BigGee wrote:Well we can hardly be worse next week, pretty much anything is going to be an improvement on this!

Agreed. A canter for the French. We look unfit and poorly prepared.

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Post by reallybored on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:04 pm

Barclay better not go to the RWC ahead of Ritchie.

Utter garbage.

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Post by alive555 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:05 pm

Scotlands fitness is the worst ive seen in a very long time. Whats with all the fat midriffs??
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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:14 pm

We were physically annihilated there. It wasnt even close. Remind me again why Ritchie Gray isn't in the squad?? We need a physical core and we just don't have it.

Pass marks (just):

Mcinally, Z Fagerson, Ritchie, Hutchinson looked promising, Hogg

Must do better:

Bhatti, Berghan, Barclay, Strauss, Hastings, Jones, Graham

Meh:

Everyone else

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:16 pm

Been listening to the game and it sounds like Scotland was crap. 

France seem to be getting some form in the side.

Is this a fair assessment of the game?

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Post by sensisball on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:18 pm

Scotland generally pants. Galthie is definitely in charge of Les Blues. This was a different planet of performance in terms of fitness, pace and intent to attack compared with the last several 6Ns tournaments. Huge week for Toonie. If he doesn't get a big improvement from the team it will take what wind there is left out of Scotland's sales for the rest of the build up matches.

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:20 pm

So....here goes,

1. Bhatti.. will we see him again? The Curse Of The Luvvies seems to have struck him at record speed
2. Rambo.. had as good a game as anyone could in the circumstances
3. Berghan. Did well, looked capable at LH, on the plane
4. Gichrist.. played well, looks like he's travelling.
5. Toolis. Quite game, could be under pressure. Cummings...meh.
6. Barclay.. Not one of his best performances. Matt Fagerson was more dynamic when he came on.
7. Ritchie... had a very good game.
8. Bluto.. See Bhatti.
9. Price,, Did what he does, but nothing gelled outside him.
10. Haircut... noticeable that in the second half Scotland didn't seem to want to play off him. If we had another out and out 10 rather than 12's who can fill in....
11. Graham.. never really got the ball in space, probably will travel.
12 Spacey.. Looked like he hadn't played in a year. Hutchie looked comfortable when he came on, did his chances no harm.
13. Jones.. couple o good moments going forward but looks slightly short of match fitness.
14. Barry.. Let that be the end of Toonie's fetish for him.
15. Hogg..class. Blarehorn.. didn't convince.

So Bhatti, Bluto and Barry shot themselves. Haircut needs to convince that he can cope with the pressure. Barclay had a quiet one. Spacey needs game time. Blarehorn could well miss out.

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:23 pm

You're being a lot more complimentary of Jones than I think he deserves Jimbo - he was generally anonymous, didn't look fit and didn't look like he was interested which is the worst part.

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Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:30 pm

I'll reserve full judgement until i watch the game tomorrow, but I said at the begining of this thread that at this point, only 8 where definitely on the plane

I may have been generous!

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Post by jimbopip on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:31 pm

You see RDW, yours is pretty much Dave Rennie's take on him.

He put Barry in space early in the first half. He and Spacey looked like they'd never played together. You are right though, as the match went on he drifted out of it: lack of fitness of disinterested?

Still, Wales were demolished away to England last week and turned them over at home today. I expect a totally different performance next week. Certainly a different back row.

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:35 pm

On the plus side an almost entirely new XV for next week looks decent enough. They certainly won't be believing their own hype after tonight too so should get a kick up the arse!

1 Dell
2 Mcinally
3 Nel
4 Gray
5 Skinner
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Thomson

9 Laidlaw
10 Russell
11 Maitland
12 Taylor
13 Hutchinson
14 Seymour
15 Kinghorn

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:45 pm

BigGee wrote:I'll reserve full judgement until i watch the game tomorrow, but I said at the begining of this thread that at this point, only 8 where definitely on the plane

I may have been generous!

I honestly wouldn't bother biggee

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Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 10:48 pm

RDW wrote:On the plus side an almost entirely new XV for next week looks decent enough. They certainly won't be believing their own hype after tonight too so should get a kick up the arse!

1 Dell
2 Mcinally
3 Nel
4 Gray
5 Skinner
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Thomson

9 Laidlaw
10 Russell
11 Maitland
12 Taylor
13 Hutchinson
14 Seymour
15 Kinghorn

Much to everyones annoyance on here, i think Harris might get the start at 13 next weekend, Hutchy is probably more likely to start in one of the Georgia games.

1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Nell
4. Gray
5. Skinner
6. Bradbury
7. Watson
8. Wilson
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Seymour
12. Horne P
13. Harris
14. Maitland
15. Kinghorn

Berghan
Turner
Fagerson Z
Cummings
Thompson
Horne G
Hutchinson
Taylor

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Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 11:08 pm

Toonie might try some other combos in this game

Maitland could move to FB
Taylor could be tried at any position in the back line
GL, Hutchy or Pete Horne could get a shot at FH in the second half
If he is going to persist with the Berghan at LH option, then surely he will want to give that one another go as well

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Post by RDW on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 11:10 pm

Given Jones' performance Harris could find himself in the driving seat with a good display!

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Post by 123456789. on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:06 am

I’m not sure there could be a positive to be found from that performance. Jones will be the scapegoat but he was no worse than anyone else, I thought he had a couple of good half breaks. I think Strauss and McGuigan may be ushered out of the last chance saloon this week.
The really worrying aspect was that we looked completely underpowered. There was no oomph or go forward. Physically we looked three of four levels below the French. The only comfort is I though the same of Wales against England last week and they managed to turn it around, but we seem on a different level to that.
I’d still like to see Taylor and Jones go together with Russell in the driving seat.

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Post by BigGee on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:28 am

Sometimes teams do need to adjust from hard training into matchday mode.

The team also did not travel until friday, which again is not ideal before an international.

If we are cr*p again next weekend though, then maybe we should be worried!

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Post by alive555 on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:29 am

Scotlands fitness coach should be sacked. Never seen such a bunch of poorly conditioned players in years
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Post by BigGee on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:49 am

Toonie's take on the performance. To be fair he called it how it was.

Scotland need "big improvements" after being hammered by France in their opening warm-up match for the World Cup, says head coach Gregor Townsend.

Scotland conceded five tries in Nice as France overpowered them to cruise to a 32-3 victory.

The teams meet again at Murrayfield on Saturday, before Scotland play a double-header with Georgia prior to travelling to Japan.




"We need to see big improvements," the Scotland head coach told BBC Scotland.

"We've got 40 in our squad and the majority of them are going to Japan, so we'll be working with them to improve. Some might not get as many opportunities after tonight, but that might have been the case anyway.

"We all know we have to show a better picture of ourselves next week at Murrayfield," he added.


France dominated from kick-off as Fiji-born wing Alivereti Raka crossed within two minutes, with Maxime Medard and Gregory Alldritt adding further scores to put the hosts 20-3 in front by half-time.

Scotland struggled to cope with their physicality, including in the scrum, where France won numerous penalties.

Townsend was concerned with his side's fitness.

"We've worked hard and we know the players are in really good physical shape but they're obviously not match conditioned yet and we'll look at how we can accelerate that over the next week or two," he said.

"We allowed them into the game by not making enough dominant collisions, dominant tackles and when you give a French team space they can cause you damage, so that's very disappointing."

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Post by bsando on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 2:29 am

Ouch! Just saw the score now as I wait to return to the UK from holiday. I had expected a tough game with the 2nd string side we fielded. That french side looked strong too. yet I had hoped the pack would have done better. thats concerning. Scotland need to be able to deal with physical sides or else run them ragged. I’ll watch tomorrow and when I get home but seems like a lot to work on. We can’t pass judgment until full time vs Ireland in a few months really but to concede 5 trys. That’s a real shame.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 5:48 am

Toonie always "recognises" the need to improve. All his sound bites are really starting to irritate me because we just don't see the improvement following a poor performance. It's like Scott johnson but without the charisma.

That being said, hopefully next week we will see improvement, otherwise i will be watching from behind the sofa come ireland . Lose to georgia and I can safely say we're absolutely Donald ducked for the WC.
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Post by RDW on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 9:08 am

Good to see Townsend not sugar coat it but as has been said we need to see action.

This seems to happen every series under Townsend - somehow we start to believe our own hype and need a rude awakening as a wake up call.

With that in mind I fully expect we'll put in a significantly better performance next week! There's no 2nd chances in a WC though.

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 9:16 am

On here and on Facebook comments everyone seems to agree that Ritchie was one of the few highlights, then I read the player ratings in the Scotsman: https://www.scotsman.com/sport/rugby-union/france-32-3-scotland-how-the-scots-players-rated-in-nice-1-4986174

Headscratch I assume they’re talking pish?

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Post by RDW on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 9:19 am

The Scotsman has nosedived in quality the last few years. Alan Massie yesterday was talking about a lock called Scott Skinner for the world cup - maybe he's Sam's brother!

Jamie was one of our better players certainly.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 10:38 am

Flounder, I fully agree that Mbawsa was one of our best players last night...but that raises some awkward questions.

Is he better than Hamish?
Is he dynamic enough to be a ball carrying 6?
If Toonie goes
6. Bradbury
7. Watson
8. Wilson
with Thompson to bench, which of those four would you leave out for Ritchie? I think that backrow would have been much better than the one we saw last night. But then again the Dagenham Girls Pipers could probably put out a more bellicose back row than we saw last night.

I think Ritchie has a lot about him, but despite being one of the few players to get pass marks last night I'm not 100% sure he is ready to be starting at international level. I think as a 7 he is better than Chris Fusaro but way short of Hamish Watson. Is he big enough to be a ball carrying 6?

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Post by RDW on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 10:50 am

Jimbo you appear to be forgetting Ritchie was one of our best players in the 6N so not sure what you're basing your comment on that he's not ready for international rugby! He was superb.

Don't get me wrong I would agree that he probably wouldn't be in our starting back row but IMO he should be in the squad. I see him as a 7 for Scotland, basically the understudy to Watson - he's by far and away our best replacement for Watson. He can play 6 though which is useful to have in the squad.

As an aside Barclay was disappointing last night - he looked knackered from the beginning. Saying that he did take a big hit to the head which he had to leave early for.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 11:29 am

My worry is toonies plan will now be stick laidlaw back in as captain and play conservatively with no gameplan to win. I'm a big fan of barclay but it sounds as though our backrow was torn a new one, which barclay was partly at fault for and by all accounts played poorly, so that rules him out of the captaincy race but McInally isn't a captain either, leaving us with Laidlaw the slow and argumentative. Strauss is done, he's well beyond extra chances, he just hasn't proven himself. I hope he enjoys his return to South Africa as i doubt we'll see him in the world cup, at least I hope not.

I like Ritchie but agree he needs some refining before he's first choice, although if we have a big 8 like thomson or Bradbury he could work well at 6 with mish at 7, especially against Japan.

I was a little worried after the 6Ns but am definitely worried now. No gameplan, no defence and a pack that got taken apart. We've also gone from being one of the fittest sides to one of the most poorly conditioned. This is definitely a coaching problem, and i don't think we've seen the last of it. I expect toonie to jump ship while he's still got credit in the bank for the australia and new zealand performances, I think its a great time to put a fiver on Japan reaching the QFs.
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Post by jimbopip on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 11:35 am

I know mabawsa had a good 6nations (even an exemplary one) but he has been struggling to hold down a starting place for the Luvvies and no matter what we might think of Cockers' selection process that does tell a story.

I like him as a player: he gets stuck in and leads by example. But I think he could be another Chris Fusaro : almost an excellent 7 but not quite.

However, he was our best back rower on the field last night. Matt Fagerson was a very close second.

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Post by 123456789. on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 11:51 am

Think we need to row back a bit. It was bloody dreadful but it was a first outing. I do wonder the extent to which the French squad already having been selected changed things. They had an element of security in their play. Some of our players seemed caged and others tried things that patently weren't on. Kinghorn is quite obviously in danger of not travelling, hence why we saw him trying stupid chip kicks from his own 22 to the most dangerous French players. We had a centre partnership that had never played together before with a second choice 10 trying to prove he should be first choice (and failing miserably). Strangely when he passes the ball he seems to drift away from where he's passing. I was always taught to follow through where the pass was going with my body on the basis that it gave a much faster pass, put you on the outside of the defender and therefore made it harder to intercept and was not as telegraphed. I suspect he's got his reasons playing at a much, much, much higher level than I ever managed but it does seem odd. We had no go forward, Strauss is not an international quality 8 unfortunately. Toolis and Gilchrist went missing (I'm starting to wonder if Richie Gray may be invited back on account of his carrying).Gilchrist is a good player but it's on days like yesterday that I wonder what his strengths are. Theoretically it's the grunt that he provides but on the days when he needs to be tough he appears to go soft. Barclay and Ritchie weren't up to scratch, I do fear that Barclay may be in the Robshaw camp. I really hope not as he worked bloody hard to get back in the team and it still baffles me how Cotter (who seems to become a much better coach in my mind every time Scotland take to the field these days) selected Strokosch and Cowan over him in 2015. The backs lacked direction. I think it's very obvious that Laidlaw holds us back; I'm just not sure if it's from the cliff edge or the mountain top.

Next week has, bizarrely, just become a make or break game. As such I'd put out the first team or as close to it as possible. They need a run out together before the world cup and Georgia is not ample preparation for the to face Ireland.
I'd put out:

1. Dell
2. MacInally
3. Nel
4. Skinner
5. Gray
6. Thomson (just to see how he goes really)
7. Watson
8. Bradbury
9. Laidlaw
10. Russell
11. Maitland
12. Taylor
13. Jones (I'd like to see the two of them have a chance to do something in the same side other than watch conversions)
14. Seymour
15. Hogg

Weirdly I think that would be the best Scotland side, on paper, in the 21st century, yet I'm still utterly lacking in confidence. Still things can only get better from here.

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Post by RDW on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 11:52 am

You can't put Ritchie and Fusaro in the same sentence - they're not in the same league! Ritchie looks like he was made to compete and this level and has to date competed very well. Fusaro is rank average at club level never mind international. I don't see the issue here - Ritchie was one of the few to leave with credit last night.

He wasn't picked by Cockers because Cockers flogged the exact same players from the Munster game to the end of the season, which was not a good move given how badly it went.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:06 pm

Are we forgetting Tom Gordon? Probably better than McCaw.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 12:37 pm

RDW, at the risk of starting a totally irrelevant argument....when Fusaro hit the scene he looked as if he would be Scotland's 7 for the foreseeable. I think rather like Richie Vernon he suddenly found he was just too small to mix it at international level. As for Ritchie at international level, he looks to have lots of potential but at the moment is a good squad option.

Numbers, I love the way you start off by suggesting we calm down as it's our first match in the warm ups then go full on Private Fraser. Laugh

Although most of what you say makes sense. perhaps I'd rest Hogg and McInally next week, but with Brown still injured it would mean starting Turner who looked underpowered last night.

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Post by RDW on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 1:19 pm

https://twitter.com/bloodandmud/status/1162808183833935872?s=19

Well this probably explains why Barclay wasn't himself - would have to see the view from the other side but that could be a red card clear out

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun 18 Aug 2019, 1:21 pm

You mean flying headbutts aren’t allowed these days?! Games gone soft I tell you!

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