France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

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Post by BigGee on Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:01 am

First topic message reminder :

France v Scotland
World Cup Warm Up
Nice
KO 20.00

Live on Premier Sport

Well the first warm up for both teams and you would imagine there might be a fair bit of experimentation on both sides as they try to hone in their squads.

So who might be playing will be complete guesswork and ergo I am going to have a guess at the Scotland team! This might be the only chance for some of the less fancied players in the squad to have a crack though and I fancy he will put them in this week and then a stronger line up next weekend for the home return match:

1. Dell
2. McInally
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings
5. Toolis
6. Barclay (capt)
7. Ritchie
8. Thompson
9. Laidlaw
10. Hastings
11. McGuigan
12. Taylor
13. Harris
14. Rae
15. Kinghorn

Subs:

Reid
Turner
Berghan
Skinner
Strauss
Horne G
Horne P
Hutchinson


Expect a few changes of position within the game as well, especially within the backs!

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:52 pm

If anyone wants a comparison to the corresponding fixture ahead of the 2015 world cup vs Ireland...

15 Ruaridh Jackson;
14 Sean Lamont,
13 Richie Vernon,
12 Peter Horne,
11 Tim Visser;
10 Greig Tonks,
9 Henry Pyrgos CAPTAIN;
1 Ryan Grant,
2 Fraser Brown,
3 Jon Welsh,
4 Jim Hamilton,
5 Grant Gilchrist,
6 Blair Cowan,
7 Hugh Blake,
8 David Denton.

Substitutes:
16 Ross Ford on for Brown (52'),
17 Gordon Reid on for Grant (45'),
18 Mike Cusack on for Welsh (47'),
19 Rob Harley on for Hamilton (55'),
20 John Barclay on for Cowan (57'),
21 Sam Hidalgo-­Clyne on for Pyrgos (66'),
22 Duncan Weir,
23 Matt Scott on for Vernon (66').

Shocked bit of a change there!

Horne and Vernon in the centres with Tonks at 10?!

Oh my

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Post by tigertattie on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:06 am

Tramptastic wrote:If anyone wants a comparison to the corresponding fixture ahead of the 2015 world cup vs Ireland...

15 Ruaridh Jackson;
14 Sean Lamont,
13 Richie Vernon,
12 Peter Horne,
11 Tim Visser;
10 Greig Tonks,
9 Henry Pyrgos CAPTAIN;
1 Ryan Grant,
2 Fraser Brown,
3 Jon Welsh,
4 Jim Hamilton,
5 Grant Gilchrist,
6 Blair Cowan,
7 Hugh Blake,
8 David Denton.

Substitutes:
16 Ross Ford on for Brown (52'),
17 Gordon Reid on for Grant (45'),
18 Mike Cusack on for Welsh (47'),
19 Rob Harley on for Hamilton (55'),
20 John Barclay on for Cowan (57'),
21 Sam Hidalgo-­Clyne on for Pyrgos (66'),
22 Duncan Weir,
23 Matt Scott on for Vernon (66').

Shocked bit of a change there!

Horne and Vernon in the centres with Tonks at 10?!

Oh my

Jesus wept
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Post by Tramptastic on Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:25 am

I count 12 of the starting 15 do not represent Scotland anymore or are very unlikely to

It's a bit odd but Vernon didn't play badly as a centre - he never excelled - but he never let anyone down!

Why didn't Hugh Blake ever work out? was he ever really given a chance at either pro club?

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Post by sensisball on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:11 pm

Got a few of the French team for Saturday's positions wrong. Took the team off lequipe before the official version was announced.
In the backs Fofana is 12 and Fickou is 13.
In the back row Cros is 6, Ollivon is 7 with Alldrit at 8.
The reason two of the reserve group forwards (Cros and Ollivon) are playing is because Camera and Lauret are carrying knocks. Itturia is a couple of weeks behind the rest having joined the squad late due to a hamstring injury.

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Post by EST on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:14 pm

Looking at that, you can really see how far the squad has come in the last four years - of those not involved this time who have retired or are injured, there are not many who would strengthen the current team.

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Post by EST on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:19 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I count 12 of the starting 15 do not represent Scotland anymore or are very unlikely to

It's a bit odd but Vernon didn't play badly as a centre - he never excelled - but he never let anyone down!

Why didn't Hugh Blake ever work out? was he ever really given a chance at either pro club?

Vernon made more than a very decent fist of his new position, was the starting centre for the majority of the 2014/2015 Title winning season.

Shug Blake never really broke through at either club, although if memory serves he was given a decent shot....maybe his game was always more suited to sevens.

Main thing looking at that team, is that I will never understand how Barclay didnt't make the squad and the likes of Cowan and Strockhosh did.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:30 pm

Stroks was in France so i think Vern knew him better. Cowan worked hard which is what VC quite often looked for in the pack. Either way that was definitely our second/third choice team so perhaps harsh to compare to this current team which has a lot of first choice potentials in the 15 and on the bench.
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Post by EST on Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:42 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:Stroks was in France so i think Vern knew him better. Cowan worked hard which is what VC quite often looked for in the pack. Either way that was definitely our second/third choice team so perhaps harsh to compare to this current team which has a lot of first choice potentials in the 15 and on the bench.

That is true, we have definitely picked a comparatively stronger squad for this opener. I'm looking forward to the game tomorrow now, that back-line has so much firepower.

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Post by tigertattie on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:11 pm

EST wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Stroks was in France so i think Vern knew him better. Cowan worked hard which is what VC quite often looked for in the pack. Either way that was definitely our second/third choice team so perhaps harsh to compare to this current team which has a lot of first choice potentials in the 15 and on the bench.

That is true, we have definitely picked a comparatively stronger squad for this opener.  I'm looking forward to the game tomorrow now, that back-line has so much firepower.

When JB moved to Wales he was cast into the Wilderness by the SRU. For a good few years he was overlooked while the like of Cowan, Blake and who was the other fella that got selected? Sure he was a 6???, were all picked over him.

It was the same with Ally Hogg when he went to Newcastle. Keek players like Ryan Wilson were being selected over Hogg who was playing really well for a decent Newcastle side at the time!
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Post by EST on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:18 pm

tigertattie wrote:
EST wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Stroks was in France so i think Vern knew him better. Cowan worked hard which is what VC quite often looked for in the pack. Either way that was definitely our second/third choice team so perhaps harsh to compare to this current team which has a lot of first choice potentials in the 15 and on the bench.

That is true, we have definitely picked a comparatively stronger squad for this opener.  I'm looking forward to the game tomorrow now, that back-line has so much firepower.

When JB moved to Wales he was cast into the Wilderness by the SRU. For a good few years he was overlooked while the like of Cowan, Blake and who was the other fella that got selected? Sure he was a 6???, were all picked over him.

It was the same with Ally Hogg when he went to Newcastle. Keek players like Ryan Wilson were being selected over Hogg who was playing really well for a decent Newcastle side at the time!

I remember arguing quite strongly at the time of the last WC that I thought Ally Hogg should have been at least included in the selection debate - it always amazed me he never got back into the Scotland fold during his time at Newcastle - he played some really good rugby in that period.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:20 pm

Im not saying i agree with the decision but i just dont think vern knew barclay or just two headstrong gnarly gits up against one another as coach and player didn't work out. I remember even stroks was saying he was surprised to make the squad *(almost embarrassed I'd say).

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:12 pm

It was a strange time for Scots rugby. There was definitely more antagonism between players and management, but we were improving as a side. Now we seem to be in a far better place

That makes more sense with Fofana at 12. Is the game only on Premier Sports 1?

Kieran Low I think was the other lock/BS TigerT

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Post by tigertattie on Sat Aug 17, 2019 12:50 am

Hazel Sapling wrote:It was a strange time for Scots rugby.  There was definitely more antagonism between players and management, but we were improving as a side. Now we seem to be in a far better place

That makes more sense with Fofana at 12. Is the game only on Premier Sports 1?

Kieran Low I think was the other lock/BS TigerT

Thats the fella Hazel. Another non entity in the end.

PS the game is live on Premier Sports. It is played again on free sports on Sunday morning (whoopee)
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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:07 am

Not the best of starts messing up the kick off then lineout!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:08 am

And a try

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:14 am

Is it on tv. cannot see it any where.?

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:15 am

That's two decent chances that we haven't taken. Echoes of the 6N!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:15 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Is it on tv. cannot see it any where.?

Premier sports

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:18 am

Are the nematodes at this pitch as well?

We're not coping with French physicality in attack and defence here.

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:31 am

We are aware this is full contact and not a touch session yeah? We're getting blown away on every contact.

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Post by BigGee on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:35 am

Am following this from work, it does not sound like it is going very well so far!

Some of the forwards don't sound like they want to try Japanese food?

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:43 am

This is bloody awful. Hogg the only bright light!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:45 am

Yellow card Hastings really not going to help. He's been pish so far too.

Bhatti also playing himself off the plane.

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Post by BigGee on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:50 am

Well at least we might be learning who not to take to Japan

We are getting stuffed!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:53 am

We're absolutely blowing out our arses - Huw Jones was just gassed by a number 8. Duncan Taylor looks like he needs oxygen.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:54 am

Man what a savaging.

We've got to stop playing like this in the first half. Japan will be licking their lips. At this rate we'll be second to bottom in our pool.
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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:57 am

Massive relief getting away with that one

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:58 am

This all sounds suitably Scottish and depressing!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:59 am

Awful, awful first half. Surely we can't be that bad in the 2nd? Surely??

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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun Aug 18, 2019 6:59 am

After this year I'm really not sure toonie is right to take us forward. The basics have just gradually disappeared under his tenure and we look completely clueless with no strategy other than "gotta go fast".

If we get knocked out in the group stages its curtains for him. Which at this stage looks like a very real possibility.


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Post by Shifty on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:00 am

This is going to be a 40-50 point hammering if Scotland don't shape up.
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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:01 am

We just need a repeat of the Calcutta Cup second half! Not much to ask for!!

Disappointing half. Scrum and line out haven't been great and we're being physically dominated in contact.

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:06 am

NeilyBroon wrote:After this year I'm really not sure toonie is right to take us forward. The basics have just gradually disappeared under his tenure and we look completely clueless with no strategy other than "gotta go fast".

If we get knocked out in the group stages its curtains for him. Which at this stage looks like a very real possibility.

I've just had the same conversation with my brother. This is only the first pre-season game of course so no need for private Fraser time, but thinking back to the 6N and AIs there's a worrying downward trend.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:08 am

It's the defensive intensity that is principally lacking, we just don't put enough pressure on teams. They need a session with Shaun Edwards!

I also think that we still lack a meaningful ball carrier. Strauss just doesn't punch the holes he used to.

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Post by jimbopip on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:09 am

Well, as gee said this is a game where people could well play themselves out of the reckoning.

Bluto has looked very heavy legged from the first minute. He also missed the tackle on the winger who scored.
Barry has had the ball in space on two occasions; first up he seemed to hesitate and look for support rather than attack the space, second one he put in a shocking chip over the top and was lucky the French 8 knocked on.
Our first two attacks, Haircut  tried the miracle pass which bounced before it reached Barry, next attack Haircut tries a little grubber which gave the French possession. The old failing of trying to force things rather than keeping possession and waiting for the defence to run out of men.
The back row, as a unit, aren't really putting the French under any pressure.

GG is actually putting in a shift.
McInally, apart from that first lineout has played well.

Fofana and Fickou are playing like two centres who really know each other's game: Spacey and Pony look like it's the first time they've played together.

I think the only Scot who will be feeling a warm glow watching Haircut will be Furra Linee.


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Post by NeilyBroon on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:10 am

Agreed that its not doomsday yet but yes the downward trend is very apparent. Whilst I dont know how we'd be with big vc still in charge, i don't think we'd have so many of these piss poor performances. We've got the players, there's something not working with the messaging.
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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:11 am

All this talk of better defence has been nonsense too

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:12 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:It's the defensive intensity that is principally lacking, we just don't put enough pressure on teams. They need a session with Shaun Edwards!

I also think that we still lack a meaningful ball carrier. Strauss just doesn't punch the holes he used to.

Didn't even notice Strauss was playing.

It's ok though we've got fagerson on the bench..


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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:12 am

Please God make Al Kellock stop. I need a cliche sick bucket....

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:13 am

RDW wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:It's the defensive intensity that is principally lacking, we just don't put enough pressure on teams. They need a session with Shaun Edwards!

I also think that we still lack a meaningful ball carrier. Strauss just doesn't punch the holes he used to.

Didn't even notice Strauss was playing.

It's ok though we've got fagerson on the bench..

It's Bradbury we really need here. If only we had 8 Edinburgh forwards rather than 7....

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:16 am

McGuigan is to wingers what Ben Hinshelwood was to centres.

Utterly pointless....

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:18 am

Once again as soon as the ball slows down in the 22 we don't know what to do. We're taking the ball standing still!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:18 am

Good to have you back FES btw!

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Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:19 am

That's twice now France 5 has played it on the ground unpublished

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:20 am

The French are very physical but we make it so easy. Reminds me of the Andy Robinson days, except with poorer ball retention skills.

I think Stuart McInally is our only quality ball carrier.

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France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:22 am

Scratching for positives, but GG and Toolis have been ok....

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France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

Post by RDW on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:23 am

Taylor looks absolutely puggled coming off. Not surprised!

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France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

Post by BigGee on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:24 am

According to Peter Wright on BBc website, Bhatti is off and Berghan playing LH

So looks like we might well be taking just the 5 props to Japan

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France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

Post by NeilyBroon on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:24 am

Funny that. The andy robinson days were the last time toonie was in the international set up. Methinks the wheels have come off the luck bus he's been riding.


Last edited by NeilyBroon on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August - Page 2 Empty Re: France v Scotland World Cup Warm Up Match - Saturday 17th August

Post by funnyExiledScot on Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:24 am

RDW wrote:Good to have you back FES btw!

Very kind! I'm like one of those 80s characters in Neighbours who keeps coming back for cameos...

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