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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 06 Aug 2019, 8:21 am

First topic message reminder :

SR that's not how mental fatigue works.
Also Stokes had a long break last year ...which he came back from err ...mentaly fatigued. Buttler and Bairstow haven't had that luxury.

But anyway it's not a case of "attitude" , ask Trott and Trescothick.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 2:00 pm

Duty281 wrote:England actually bowl to a plan which works. Another frustrating outing for Paine - getting a start but not kicking on.

One end open for England now...

I think Cummins is a better bat than Paine.....technically very correct.
One end can be deemed open only when Hazelwood arrives Smile
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 2:22 pm

Archer generating serious pace. About 93-94. Swiftly followed by an absolutely terrible DRS review.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 2:37 pm

well that's one way of trying to win the ashes. really nasty that one. hope he's ok but just injured enough to miss rest of the series

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 2:41 pm

Vicious spell of bowling from Archer, hitting speeds of up to 96.1MPH. Smith getting clattered, first on the forearm and then on the head, and unfortunately has to go off.

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 2:45 pm

yeah he is so much better a bowler with the old ball .
Smith it seems was hit on the unprotected part of the neck
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:01 pm

Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him, and then laughing with Buttler while Smith was on the floor getting treatment.

Playing hard is fine, but there should always be a level of sportsmanship.

Speaking of Archer, he's getting over-bowled now and getting steadily more erratic. Australia edging towards favourites, I think.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:04 pm

Has Mooen ever bowled 10 overs for 16 or less runs

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:22 pm

Absolute peach from the under-bowled Woakes to remove Siddle.

Smith coming out to bat again. Tremendous courage.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:22 pm

Oh well that's some karma, Root is such a terrible captain, has no plan but to bowl someone into the ground.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:37 pm

Gone now for 92. Clearly scrambled by previous events. Pivotal point in the game now - England need to wrap these two wickets up briskly. Another 30-40 runs could be crucial.

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Post by compelling and rich on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:37 pm

well we can do it before 100, clearly still a bit scrabbled from the early hit. didn't look right

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...
Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:49 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...
Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

Bowling bouncers is fine. Not checking on your opponent after hitting them is not.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 3:53 pm

Duty281 wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Pretty disgusting to see Archer turning his back on Smith after he struck him ... there should always be a level of sportsmanship ...
Wasn't Archer targeted by loads of bouncers from Cummins when England was batting?

Bowling bouncers is fine. Not checking on your opponent after hitting them is not.
As a bowler there was nothing he could have done - but it did look sickening - something for the medics. Ultimately Archer has to answer for it and it is certain he will get an awful lot of abuse from it.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:12 pm

Only one team has Warner in it. Ask him about breaking arms. And sportsmanship.

Then come back and talk about Archer.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:13 pm

Broad finishes with 4/65 - excellent start to the series from him.

England need to bat 60-70+ overs to draw this game. They mustn't be stonewall negative, like Adelaide 2006!

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Post by KP_fan on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:15 pm

140 overs left in the game.....a result is a possibility and would make for an interesting game if Eng gets bowled out for 180 odd in 70 overs
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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:31 pm

Australia need a minimum of four wickets tonight to plant themselves in pole position. Should be about 32 overs in the two and a half hours this evening. Big innings for Jason Roy.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:50 pm

Well that was an interesting session , eh ? I watched it all , quite enthralled , but had stopped posting because it seemed I had only Duty to talk to Smile I see a few more back on now !

Really was an aggressive spell from Archer ...consistently fast , and he clearly rattled Smith in more ways than one ...fortunately he doesn't seem to have suffered series head damage. Thoughts of Phil Hughes were springing to mind when he went down !

Hope England are learning now how and when to use Archer ...and when to use Woakes ! The latter with a new ball. Joffra is arguably more dangerous with an older one by what we've seen.

No lead either way. Normally you'd say advantage England with the Aussies batting last. But given limited time left and nature of the pitch I guess the nerves will be in the home dressing room at the moment. Really should be able to bat long enough to be safe ; but as they don't really have time to set a target and bowl Australia out they may be a little indecisive in their approach - which would play into Lyon's hands...

Roy gone Sad

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:52 pm

Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:53 pm

Bloody hell ! Root first ball...

That's why he shouldn't bat three. But Bayliss and Smith just won't learn until it's way too late...


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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:54 pm

Duplication


Last edited by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by VTR on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:56 pm

Looking like 2-0 coming our way. Somehow need to set 150 and hope Bob Willis steps out of a time machine. Not sure which of those is less likely tlat this point

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:57 pm

alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

I don't think they should move Roy to four. I think they should tell him to concentrate on the ODI game and pick someone better suited to Tests. But let us see if any other batsmen are left standing after this match...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 4:59 pm

alfie wrote:
alfie wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Roy gone after, again, looking clueless in the opening spot. He has to be moved to 4 for the next test, otherwise his confidence will be wrecked by a succession of low scores.

Opening for the Aussies.

Oh, wow, Root gone first ball! What a nut from Cummins. Australia favourites now, no doubt.

I don't think they should move Roy to four.  I think they should tell him to concentrate on the ODI game and pick someone better suited to Tests. But let us see if any other batsmen are left standing after this match...

Well, yes, I'm far from convinced with him in the test arena, but England will likely stick with him for the duration of this series and, if they must, move him to 4 and give him half a chance.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:08 pm

The difference in the two sides is the batting of Steve Smith, and the lack of batting from Jason Roy and Joe Root.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:11 pm

But why , Duty ? Picking him was a hunch , based on his white ball form. The idea was presumably that he might attack the bowlers early , put them on the back foot... That hasn't looked remotely likely.

His red ball record is not spectacular. So why try to find a place for him at the cost of continuing to expose Root in the dangerous spot at three ? Honestly I'd almost rather see Ballance back ! Or Vince.

Truth is the Top Three Problem looms as large as ever. But I think I've seen enough to say Roy won't solve it. And while this series remains in any way alive they need to look for someone who can...

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:12 pm

Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:19 pm

alfie wrote:But why , Duty ?  Picking him was a hunch , based on his white ball form.  The idea was presumably that he might attack the bowlers early , put them on the back foot... That hasn't looked remotely likely.

His red ball record is not spectacular. So why try to find a place for him at the cost of continuing to expose Root in the dangerous spot at three ? Honestly I'd almost rather see Ballance back !  Or Vince.

Truth is the Top Three Problem looms as large as ever.  But I think I've seen enough to say Roy won't solve it.  And while this series remains in any way alive they need to look for someone who can...

True, but if the selectors bin Roy after three tests, it won't look good for them. And they'll want to give him a proper chance, a fair crack of the whip as it were. I don't think Roy is the answer either, as opener or at 4, but it is what it is.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:31 pm

I hear what you're saying , Duty. But I haven't much time for this " not looking good for the selectors" thing. Losing 5-0 won't look good for them either !
OK , even this game isn't gone yet ; but things don't look good. And sometimes you have to have the courage to make a decision. I don't know if there is a man out there who can solve the top order issues ; but if they don't try Sibley , or someone else , now : what good will it do to move after the Ashes are lost ?

If Root were to stay at three (well I think he'd be nuts to do so , but...) then I'd have though Northeast , or Pope , or Hildreth ,to mention but three , would have better credentials ?

Ah well I don't like picking teams in the middle of a match and guess I should stick to that policy. I just get annoyed when they insist on all these "funky" moves instead of sticking to the basic system of putting players in their normal positions ...

Back to the match : poor Siddle must have shot an albatross ! Warner drops another catch off him...

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:33 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.
Smith no different to Atherton or Trescothick

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:39 pm

Really should have reviewed that. Looked good in real time and was certainly no worse than umpire's call. DRS says three reds.

Astonishing that Australia haven't got the third wicket yet. That shout, a drop, Burns skies one. Living dangerously, but also scoring. The lead going to 50.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:40 pm

Paine has got a lot right in this match ...but not his choice of when to review ! Couple of bad calls first innings . And inexplicably not calling one then...
Surely at worst it would have been umpires call ? Lucky for Burns.

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:41 pm

Moving him to 4 isn't quite the same as dropping him outright. It's one thing to not bin someone after a couple of tests where they've been cuffed up by the new ball. But Roy has never looked comfortable out there, or even managed to make a battling score whilst looking uncomfortable. He's just getting out quickly and cheaply.
Denly was picked as an opener. If he can't play in the top 3 he shouldn't be there it's that simple.
There's 3 players initially picked as top 3 bats in this side. Plus Sibley available who is by far the best performing opener in CC this season.

How you end up with Root at 3 and feel stuck to persisting with it for the whole Ashes I'm not sure.

The top 4 as is a disaster zone. There's lots of options and most of them don't have Roy Root as 2 3

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Post by Pr4wn on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:44 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.

I'm sure you'd hold the same opinion if Smith was the England captain?

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Post by Soul Requiem on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 5:57 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:Why should Archer check on Smith? He's a cheating little scumbag.
Smith no different to Atherton or Trescothick

I for one cheered Donald in their battle.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:02 pm

Siddle gets another tame caught+bowled. Overdue wicket for the Australians and another poor show by Denly. Still an hour left tonight...

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:03 pm

Denly has done his usual thing...nice bright little 25/30 and gone...Siddle makes sure at least he can catch them himself off his bowling!

Denly ... Vince2.

Be a good time for Jos to regain some form...

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:04 pm

Oh. Actually it's Stokes coming in at five. Cue Lyon back on , no doubt...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:04 pm

Stokes now batting at 5, not Jos! I think Lyon's salivating at the prospect of two lefties to bowl at.

Not to overstate, but Lyon could have dismissed Stokes four times in that over!

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:08 pm

And Stokes all at sea against the spinner...

Lucky boundary past slip...and now dropped ! Why he's been thrown to the Lyons this early I'm not sure ...though I guess he's going to face the same problems whenever he comes in.

Burns gone and England are sinking fast...

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:09 pm

In the first innings Denly lasted 67 balls for 30 runs, in the second innings Denly lasted 51 balls for 26 runs. So at least he is getting a score and helping to see off the new ball.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:10 pm

What a bowling unit this is. Fabulous from Siddle, bit of extra bounce, Burns gone.

England in a world of trouble.

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Post by No name Bertie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:11 pm

Buttler - I wonder how long he will last.

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:12 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Buttler - I wonder how long he will last.

Judging by his first innings effort, I'll be surprised if he lasts until stumps.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:17 pm

A pity after a fighting effort with the ball. But this batting display is really disappointing. Good bowling yes ; but this is going to open up all the old debates over batting orders ...calls for Sam Curran to come in and bat at five , etc Smile

I hardly dare watch but can't turn in for fear I will wake to find them all out for 99 ...

Suppose they are further ahead already than they needed to be in the Ireland Test Smile But the Australian batting order looks a little stronger than the Irish ...

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:20 pm

No name Bertie wrote:In the first innings Denly lasted 67 balls for 30 runs, in the second innings Denly lasted 51 balls for 26 runs.  So at least he is getting a score and helping to see off the new ball.

Well that is true. And the reason he should be at three not Joe Root , I'd have thought. But the England brains trust thinks they have a better plan , apparently...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:25 pm

Oh my, another three reds review chance missed by Australia. Much more muted appeal for that one, initially.

England are four down, but it could have been so much worse with dropped catches and missed LBWs. Just shows how terrible this batting display has been.

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Post by alfie on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:31 pm

Duty281 wrote:What a bowling unit this is. Fabulous from Siddle, bit of extra bounce, Burns gone.

England in a world of trouble.

Siddle has been rejuvenated this year...Not many people in Australia would have had him in the squad , let alone the XI , a few months back.
I am a bit of a fan of his , but I didn't expect him to do this well.

Lyon misses another lbw ...failing to review , would have been out ! Shouldn't matter : he looks like striking any time now.

Should Stokes just go full 1981 Botham and try to land a few sixes ? Suddenly seems to be plenty in the pitch for all the bowlers so can't see run making getting much easier later on... But not sure Leach will be able wreck Australia on the last day even if it does turn square...

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Post by Duty281 on Sat 17 Aug 2019, 6:37 pm

For now, I'd just like Buttler and Stokes to survive this last 25 minutes and get through to Sunday. Re-assess then.

180 might be defendable, but England's bowling packs less of a punch than Australia's. And a lot could depend on if Smith is able to bat (think he can) tomorrow.

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