Georgia Double Header - Scotlands last warm up games 31st August and 6th September

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Post by BigGee on Tue 27 Aug 2019, 11:39 am

First topic message reminder :

So after a mixed bag in the first two games, we now face a difficult away trip to Tiblisi followed 6 days later by hosting the same team at home at Murrayfield.

With the travelling involved, a 6 hour flight apparently, as well as a Georgian team with a lot to prove playing in front of a crowd of 50,000, this ill no doubt be a serious test and an indication of what playing in a hostile environment in unpleasant conditions will be like. A dress rehersal for the Japan game in many ways.

So who does he play first up?

The squad is being finalised after the away game, but you would imagine that he is not going to want to waste any spaces on players that he has already made his mind up about.

He certainly is not going to risk any injured players, so that rules out Thompson, Skinner, Seymour for sure, along with the possibity of Taylor, Bradbury, Gray and we are not sure if Brown and Johnson will be fit either.

I am going to assume that none of them are ready to travel and have a stab at a team along these lines:

1. Reid
2. McInally
3. Fagerson Z
4. Gilchrist
5. Cummings
6. Wilson
7. Ritchie
8. Fagerson M
9. Horne G
10. Hastings
11. Graham
12. Hutchinson
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Kinghorn

Subs
Berghan
Turner
Nel
Toolis
Barclay
Price
Horne P
Harris

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Post by Hazel Sapling on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 12:40 pm

P Horne is one of the nearly men of international rugby. At club level, he is good enough to finish opportunities and the side is good enough for when he can't. He creates well and will get in the right position, but can't finish the job off at international level. He is fine as a back-up who can cover 10 for the Russia game to give Russell the day off. If he is starting the QF, we are doing something wrong.

I generally agree with RDW for every game bar Russia sentiment. Probably add Samoa in there with getting rest for Dell, Nel, Watson, Laidlaw, Russell, Hogg and D Taylor/S Johnson.

It is annoying that we have this focus on 3 - 4 decisions, however it may work out. R Gray gets some form for Toulouse and could come in before the Japan game. Bradbury can get his fitness back without having to take serious minutes straight away. H Jones and Hutchinson are next on the plane for our inevitable centre injury crisis.


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Post by RDW on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 12:44 pm

I don't think we need to or should rest players for Samoa. If we did it would mean almost 4 weeks between players playing the Ireland and Japan games. There's also 8 days after Ireland to recover, then 9 days until the Russia game.

The issue is the Russia game where we have 4 days.

So for me it's full metal jacket for all games bar Russia, and manage the squad for the Russia game to minimise the impact on the key players for the Japan game.

I can also remember what happened against Samoa last world cup!

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Post by bsando on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 1:06 pm

Yeah that game was bananas! Samoa ran in some really nice tries so I'd definitely hope for a full strength Scotland side for that one. It'll be interesting to see how Samoa do actually, they'll be hoping to beat one of Japan, Ireland or Scotland in pool A. They're definitely not there to beat Russia and give everyone else a good game. They ran USA and Fiji close this year in the PNC and beat Tonga. Scotland's last game vs them was a 44 - 38 win at Murrayfield. This time it'll be in Japan which is probably a more familiar place for them than us. World rankings mean nothing.

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Post by Tramptastic on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 2:19 pm

For all Pete Horne's insistence that he allows others to play better I think its complete tosh

I always thought it was Dunbar that held that title - a steady eddie who was quick around the pitch, a really quite excellent marshall in defence, rock solid when jackling over the ball and often forcing the opposition to turn it over, 95% makes the right decision, doesn't force a pass and a good player for just crashing it up when required.

From what I can see P.Hornes idea of himself in this role seems to be based on his distribution and support line running which I'd agree are his better qualities but for everything else he seems to force it. His passing can be forced under pressure and therefore erratic, he is used as a speed bump in defence and his kicking game is a bit... meh.

In my (poor) opinion a midfielder that allows others to play their game better is in the mould of Dunbar (see also: Ryan Crotty, Duncan Taylor, Hadleigh Parkes, Damien De Allende etc), not Horne the Elder

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 4:14 pm

I suddenly realised I had never heard Ryan Wilson speak. So just went to find a video clip of him talking and finally I understand why he is a thug.

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Post by alive555 on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 4:50 pm

Tramptastic wrote:For all Pete Horne's insistence that he allows others to play better I think its complete tosh

I always thought it was Dunbar that held that title - a steady eddie who was quick around the pitch, a really quite excellent marshall in defence, rock solid when jackling over the ball and often forcing the opposition to turn it over, 95% makes the right decision, doesn't force a pass and a good player for just crashing it up when required.

From what I can see P.Hornes idea of himself in this role seems to be based on his distribution and support line running which I'd agree are his better qualities but for everything else he seems to force it. His passing can be forced under pressure and therefore erratic, he is used as a speed bump in defence and his kicking game is a bit... meh.

In my (poor) opinion a midfielder that allows others to play their game better is in the mould of Dunbar (see also: Ryan Crotty, Duncan Taylor, Hadleigh Parkes, Damien De Allende etc), not Horne the Elder

he means the opposition
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Post by 123456789. on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 5:37 pm

I've always felt that if a rugby player is compelled to state what he does well in an interview then it should be taken with a pinch of salt. You've never seen Jonny Wilkinson announce he's good at goalkicking nor have you seen Richie McCaw state he was good at the breakdown.

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Post by BigGee on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 6:04 pm

Unfortunately Pete Horne has just set himself up to fail here. A pretty ill advised interview in my opinion.

Better to do talking on the pitch

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 7:20 pm

BigGee wrote:Unfortunately Pete Horne has just set himself up to fail here. A pretty ill advised interview in my opinion.

Better to do talking on the pitch

That’s my point Gee. You never saw Greame Morrison or Andy Henerdson flapping their gums in the press about how they made others look good.

Pete Horne is your typical big ego club player who thinks he is the muts nuts so swans about like he’s the best thing on tele since Thundercats.

It’s not his fault that he’s knickers (for an international capped pro) but he’s trying to put across an image that he is this great centre when he simply is not.

When you list all the terrible decisions or failed attempts at executing something on the international arena, Pete Horne has a list longer than the combined feckups/brainfarts of Nick de Luca, Marcus Di Rollo and Brendan Laney.
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Post by bsando on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 7:44 pm

Just realised this will probably be the last RWC we see the old faithful back 3 of Maitland, Hogg and Seymour playing together. They've had some awesome games. Do we think anyone will retire post RWC? I don't think Laidlaw will although he'd be the obvious one. Price and Horne jr aren't exactly keeping him out of the jersey and from his interviews he seemed keener than ever to play for Scotland. Probably a few years too soon for a few of the older players who are on the cusp of their 30's.

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Post by tigertattie on Thu 05 Sep 2019, 10:09 pm

I think it will depend on how we do.

Of Scotland get to a semi final then laidlaw will retire. If we get tossed out on the group stage or stutter to a big standard defeat in the QF then he’ll stay in till at least after the 6ns
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Post by bsando on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:25 am

Makes sense, I'm sure a semi final would be a tempting moment for Laidlaw to think about stepping down.

I did the silly thing this morning of trying to remember how we lost to Ireland in this years 6N.. POM's shoulder, the seymour/maitland mix up which could have been called back for a penalty for Scotland, then the Hogg injury, missed tackles, poor attack (except for Russell and Johnson). Wish I hadn't now. It did however remind me that Jones didn't really do that well in that game and perhaps his deselection isn't such a drastic call after all.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 8:21 am

bsando wrote:Just realised this will probably be the last RWC we see the old faithful back 3 of Maitland, Hogg and Seymour playing together. They've had some awesome games. Do we think anyone will retire post RWC? I don't think Laidlaw will although he'd be the obvious one. Price and Horne jr aren't exactly keeping him out of the jersey and from his interviews he seemed keener than ever to play for Scotland. Probably a few years too soon for a few of the older players who are on the cusp of their 30's.

I think Barclay will go. He will be 33 and with Bradbury, Ritchie and Fagerson all knocking on the door and capable at 6, I suspect he'll retire from international and focus on a trophy laden swansong with Edinburgh....

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 8:38 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
bsando wrote:Just realised this will probably be the last RWC we see the old faithful back 3 of Maitland, Hogg and Seymour playing together. They've had some awesome games. Do we think anyone will retire post RWC? I don't think Laidlaw will although he'd be the obvious one. Price and Horne jr aren't exactly keeping him out of the jersey and from his interviews he seemed keener than ever to play for Scotland. Probably a few years too soon for a few of the older players who are on the cusp of their 30's.

I think Barclay will go. He will be 33 and with Bradbury, Ritchie and Fagerson all knocking on the door and capable at 6, I suspect he'll retire from international and focus on a trophy laden swansong with Edinburgh....


Being the 1872 Cup?

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 8:46 am

Seymour and Maitland still have a few years left in them so I can't see them retiring.

Barclay may look to have a 6N swansong given it has taken him so long to get back into the international scene given his injuries. Can see Laidlaw trying to push to the 6N too. It's all part of the same season.

I'm sure the desire to have a last match at Murrayfield and not in Japan is strong for these guys.

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 9:07 am

Was Barclay's signing for Edinburgh not meant to include some coaching development work with an eye on his post-playing career? I thought this was part of the PR blurb when he signed, or did I imagine all this?

You'd hope he would go on to coach as he's got a really sharp mind for the game. That or you'd hope he'd become a permanent fixture on the rugby pod

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 9:15 am

I don't know if it was formalised in his contract but he did say it the time he wanted to move into defence coaching.

I'm sure the SRU will be keen to keep him in the game.

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 9:23 am

It's good PR for the SRU to keep pros in the game post-retirement, he's got a good defence coach in McCrae to learn off at Edinburgh!

I've also come to terms with Wilson being included in the 31. He might not be the best but he's known as the joker of the group he keeps the mood up when everybody is too serious. The group social, mental and emotional balance is as important as the players abilities and being away for that length of time you'd need a good balance or everyone would be too serious and turn on each other when things go wrong.

You'd just hope the group jokers have really high skill sets but alas, for better or worse, we have Wilson.

On the plus side he winds the England team up no end and he made Care look like an idiot on a pod cast so I've got a soft spot for him Laugh

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Post by EWT Spoons on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 10:54 am

I think Laidlaw will be hanging up his International boots, his emotion during the anthems during the France game, waving to the fans as he left the pitch and swapping shirts with Hoggy afterwards. I think he’ll be calling time on his international playing career.

Barclay - It’s possible, he’ll retire, there are a lot players coming through in his position, so he might feel it’s worth focussing on his club game rather than being forced out of the international game. In terms of him going into coaching, there was an interview with him last season where I think he said that had initially been his plan, but he loved doing the TV stuff, and was hoping to do more of that going forward. He might still coach as well, but if given the choice I think he’d rather do the TV stuff, and that’s where most of his focus has been with the BBC columns and the punditry.

In saying that Laidlaw is only 33 and Barclay is 32, so both could continue at International level for longer, but I think Laidlaw is done with Internationals.

Nel is another possibility, at 33 he might decide that’s enough for him.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 10:59 am

Tramptastic wrote:
You'd just hope the group jokers have really high skill sets but alas, for better or worse, we have Wilson.

On the plus side he winds the England team up no end and he made Care look like an idiot on a pod cast so I've got a soft spot for him Laugh

Well a lot of the English team are pretty posh, while Wilson is a real English Chav Very Happy. Think of it as "Made in Chelsea" meets "TOWIE"

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:13 am

LondonTiger wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
You'd just hope the group jokers have really high skill sets but alas, for better or worse, we have Wilson.

On the plus side he winds the England team up no end and he made Care look like an idiot on a pod cast so I've got a soft spot for him Laugh

Well a lot of the English team are pretty posh, while Wilson is a real English Chav Very Happy. Think of it as "Made in Chelsea" meets "TOWIE"

Oh aye, he's proper working class and that niggling of posh people is something that appeals to the scottish national stereotype Laugh

I enjoy reading about how his dad just hangs out with the Scottish rugby team on nights out and is a total liability, makes the team seem quite grounded that they all talk about having to carry their team mates dad from pub to pub Laugh

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:15 am

EWT Spoons wrote:I think Laidlaw will be hanging up his International boots, his emotion during the anthems during the France game, waving to the fans as he left the pitch and swapping shirts with Hoggy afterwards.  I think he’ll be calling time on his international playing career.

Barclay - It’s  possible, he’ll retire, there are a lot players coming through in his position, so he might feel it’s worth focussing on his club game rather than being forced out of the international game.  In terms of him going into coaching, there was an interview with him last season where I think he said that had initially been his plan, but he loved doing the TV stuff, and was hoping to do more of that going forward.  He might still coach as well, but if given the choice I think he’d rather do the TV stuff, and that’s where most of his focus has been with the BBC columns and the punditry.

In saying that Laidlaw is only 33 and Barclay is 32, so both could continue at International level for longer, but I think Laidlaw is done with Internationals.

Nel is another possibility, at 33 he might decide that’s enough for him.

I like Barclay's punditry, his bbc columns were insightful and well written, I don't find the Parkes replacement articles quite as smooth!

He's got a good bit of chat when he's on the rugby pod so would welcome him continuing to do punditry

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:30 am

Yeah Barclay is very good at punditry and his articles are excellent.

Whatever you think about Laidlaw as a player there's no doubting his absolute commitment and pride from playing for Scotland.  I do like that about the current crop - there are a lot of players who you can tell it's their absolutely dream to be playing for their country. I'm not saying players in the past haven't been like that but you can really see it with a lot of these players.

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Post by Tramptastic on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:35 am

Its maybe more evident now there's a sense of optimism in scottish rugby, these lads are proud to play for scotland but also excited because they believe they can win, rather than the pride but dreary resignation we experienced during the noughties?

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 1:52 pm

I think some of that dreary resignation translated into arrogance in some of the better players. I always got the impression that Simon Taylor thought he was doing a everyone a favour playing for Scotland. Despite Russell going on to become a real star of European rugby playing for Scotland still appears to be the pinnacle for him.

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 2:11 pm

In other news japan have been soundly beaten by SA. 41-7 in Japan.

I'm not saying we're the same level as south Africa but Scotland would do well to watch that game and learn. It also gives me hope that whilst they've come on in leaps and bounds, Japan are still at the bottom of tier 1/top of tier 2.

That being said we're still the best chance Japan have because of our weaknesses as a side. We're not able, like Ireland, to choke other teams out.
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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 2:28 pm

I wouldn’t be surprised to see Maitland retire. He’s 30 so it’s his last World Cup. He might be in the Lions area but history tells us good performance for Sarries will do the trick. Sarries will probably be leaning on him a bit and with Kinghorn and Graham (and of course, Dougie Fife) waiting in the wings he may decide it’s his time.

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Post by EST on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 2:51 pm

I really hope you're wrong numbers, Maitland has been such a good player for us over the past few years - probably our most consistent performer and absolutely nailed on to start.


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Post by bsando on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 4:50 pm

Yeah I’d be gutted if he retired. I think he won’t though because he was super keen to tour the USA, Canada and Arg last year but Toonie said he wanted to give the newbies some game time.

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 5:13 pm

Don’t get me wrong I don’t want him to, I think he may well have been the best Scottish winger of the pro era

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 5:14 pm

Maitland should be able to keep going to the next Lions tour, injury willing.

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:14 pm

Where's Dougie Vipond??

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Post by BigGee on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:21 pm

On the drums at a Deacon Blue concert i expect

Conflicts of interest!

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:25 pm

Peter Wright saying Ryan Wilson doesn't deserve to be captain due to his past indiscretions!

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:30 pm

Think it's already been mentioned but with Japan just being pumped by South Africa I'm feeling significantly more content. I actually think we'll do the Irish over. Their world cup malaise seems to be setting in.

Now to watch us lose to home to Georgia...

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:31 pm

Class from Taylor!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:33 pm

In the coaches boxes its haribo vs rowntrees
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Post by BigGee on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:34 pm

Very solid start

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:35 pm

Just a shame we've given away the pens just as we get going

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Poor from fagerson, lucky there
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Post by BigGee on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Good tackle by JG

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:36 pm

Bad missed tackle from Fagerson on his opposite man

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:38 pm

Another error after 1st phase - we're just not getting any momentum

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:39 pm

Lack of defensive coordination cost us there, Fagerson should be completing those tackles

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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:40 pm

Zander looks to be struggling in the scrums. Not had the best of starts!

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Post by BigGee on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:42 pm

How did he drop that!

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Post by NeilyBroon on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:43 pm

A rare drop from Seymour!
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Post by RDW on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:43 pm

Seymour!! Nice from Kinghorn

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Post by 123456789. on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:43 pm

Not sure I've seen many blunders like that but the centres look good.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 7:44 pm

Scrums are a complete mess

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