England RWC Thread

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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 29 Aug 2019, 1:56 pm

First topic message reminder :

Next match pre RWC is England vs Italy 6th September.

22/09/2019 England v Tonga 11:15 GMT
26/09/2019 England v USA 11:45 GMT
05/10/2019 England v Argentina 09:00 GMT
12/10/2019 England v France 09:15 GMT

England Squad:

Forwards: Dan Cole (Leicester, 86 caps), Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter, 12), Tom Curry (Sale, 11), Ellis Genge (Leicester, 10), Jamie George (Saracens, 37), Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27), George Kruis (Saracens, 32), Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 59), Courtney Lawes (Northampton, 72), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton, 1), Joe Marler (Harlequins, 58), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22), Jack Singleton (Saracens, 1), Sam Underhill (Bath, 9), Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 42), Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 53), Mark Wilson (Newcastle/Sale, 13).

Backs: Joe Cokanasiga (Bath, 5), Elliot Daly (Saracens, 31), Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70), George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 56), Piers Francis (Northampton, 5), Willi Heinz (Gloucester, 1), Jonathan Joseph (Bath, 41), Jonny May (Leicester, 45), Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath, uncapped), Jack Nowell (Exeter, 33), Henry Slade (Exeter, 22), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester, 33), Anthony Watson (Bath, 34), Ben Youngs (Leicester, 86).

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:00 pm

In regards to Ryan's point I'm much more confident of quick ball with either curry or underhill in the team.and seemingly looks as if both will take the field if fit.itoje is obviously pretty useful at the breakdown.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:43 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So which games at 13 do you have in mind miaow? What was.missing from his games there?

The number 12.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:51 pm

miaow wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Just listening to ben ryan and he'd have tuilagi at 12 purely to get him on the ball more against better defence, farrell at 10. Reckons our ball will be too slow from the ruck to make use of any space.

Exactly what I am saying. Ford is your bench option to come on if/when needed, but Farrell is still the starting 10 in my eyes, for the sacrifice of running rugby.

Tuilagi is the obvious 12. England will play less and less wide - and more and more tight and long - as the tournament progresses. Tuilagi can be the difference in tght channels, 1 on 1, in phaseplay. Doesn't matter where he plays but he adds solidity England don't otherwse have for the position.

Ryan's view on Tuilagi is premised on his distrust of George Ford. He has consistently maintained, for over two years now, that England cannot win a World Cup with Ford at 10. That leaves him with Farrell at 10, and Ryan just comes to the same conclusion Lancaster did when he couldn't find a satisfactory playmaker at 12. If you asked Ben Ryan where he would play Tuilagi if Cipriani was at 10, then I suspect he'd be more ambivalent.

(Incidentally, Luther Burrell has just told the House of Rugby that he would love to have formed a partnership playing inside Tuilagi but never got the chance).

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 5:07 pm

The Slade/Tuilagi combo was the one that would provide all things to all men, as they can switch as and when needed. However due to Slade's injury issues I suspect we won't see much if any of it this RWC.

Slade has said that he felt he had a good understanding with Tuilagi - everybody wants to play alongside him...

Just playing crashball really does not get the best out of him and can get him injured. Just because he can do this it doesn't mean he should.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 5:26 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:In regards to Ryan's point I'm much more confident of quick ball with either curry or underhill in the team.and seemingly looks as if both will take the field if fit.itoje is obviously pretty useful at the breakdown.

I don't think the selection of Ford will be influenced by how confident the coaches are of getting quick ball. His form has been so good behind a shocking Tigers pack they be confident of him performing. Farrell's average form so far hasn't Inspired either.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 6:50 pm

I don't remember Ford ever having a Scotland level meltdown that Farrell did during the six nations.

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Post by Pie on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 7:29 pm

Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 7:32 pm

Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

Aus? We have beaten them 6 times in a row and their current form is not exactly stellar. Why would we want to dodge them?

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Post by Pie on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 7:34 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

Aus? We have beaten them 6 times in a row and their current form is not exactly stellar. Why would we want to dodge them?
So prefer them over Wales in 1/4s? Aus just have a habit of producing the goods when they really need to....they are definitely due one...

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 8:06 pm

In truth there is only one team I am really concerned about facing, and that is the AB's

I am concerned about facing Wales because they are so bloody minded at this level, but feel our best is better than theirs. South Africa and Australia will be hard but beatable and I think we have finally worked out this version of Ireland.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 8:44 pm

Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

No, 

Would Wales throw a game at any time ?

Just remember it was on a couple of weeks a go Wales was number 1 ranked team in the world.

Such a stupid question.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 8:51 pm

Pie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

Aus? We have beaten them 6 times in a row and their current form is not exactly stellar. Why would we want to dodge them?
So prefer them over Wales in 1/4s? Aus just have a habit of producing the goods when they really need to....they are definitely due one...
Both Wales and Australia are capable of turning us over, so I don't think we gain anything by trying to avoid one or the other. Also, if we do make it through to a quarter-final, we'll have the same venue in Oita regardless of where we finish. If there was a chance of avoiding Oita in favour of Tokyo, then I might want to try and do that. Oita is the indoor venue where the All Blacks played Canada. While the humidity might ease up, there's a good chance we'll be sweating like pigs, and the ball will be slippery. I'd prefer to be in Tokyo but we don't get to choose.

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 8:56 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

No, 

Would Wales throw a game at any time ?

Just remember it was on a couple of weeks a go Wales was number 1 ranked team in the world.

Such a stupid question.

So were Ireland and they just threw one to avoid South Africa...(didnt they?)

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Post by Pie on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 9:09 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

No, 

Would Wales throw a game at any time ?

Just remember it was on a couple of weeks a go Wales was number 1 ranked team in the world.

Such a stupid question.

Sure 'cos we know there are no cheats in rugby, just dodgy bets and fake blood Rolling Eyes

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 10:18 pm

Pie wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:
Pie wrote:Would England throw a game to avoid Aus in 1/4s?

No, 

Would Wales throw a game at any time ?

Just remember it was on a couple of weeks a go Wales was number 1 ranked team in the world.

Such a stupid question.

Sure 'cos we know there are no cheats in rugby, just dodgy bets and fake blood Rolling Eyes

Welsh granny?

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Post by Cyril on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 10:27 pm

England have been pretty tidy against Aus recently. I don’t see a problem.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 2:08 am

Yeah I think if it weren't for Cheika they'd be a better team. I think he's smothered them far too long. They're an expressive, happy go lucky approach to the game, similar to how France used to be but 'seriousness' has enveloped them, even though they still try to play to an open style.
They're still scary though...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 6:33 am

Cant see that the squad has been posted here:
15 Elliot Daly
14 Anthony Watson
13 Manu Tuilagi
12 Owen Farrell
11 Jonny May
10 George Ford
9 Ben Youngs
1 Joe Marler
2 Jamie George
3 Kyle Sinckler
4 Maro Itoje
5 George Kruis
6 Tom Curry
7 Sam Underhill
8 Billy Vunipola

Replacements
16 Luke Cowan-Dickie
17 Mako Vunipola
18 Dan Cole
19 Courtney Lawes
20 Lewis Ludlam
21 Willi Heinz
22 Henry Slade
23 Jack Nowell


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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 6:52 am

Are the like's of Mako and Jack Nowell fully fit now?

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:09 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Are the like's of Mako and Jack Nowell fully fit now?

Supposedly

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:26 am

Time for a match thread?

Ideal results:
Win game
No more injuries
Rehabilitate Mako, Slade and Nowell

If those last 3 can all play 30 minutes or so and then start against France they'll really be contenders for the knockouts. If we win we take the pressure off a bit and can afford risking players who possibly srent match sharp.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:40 am

Pretty much. No longer need to think of bonus points.win and we are through.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 8:17 am

It should be a routine win on paper but then again this is England at a world cup so expect us to make hard work of it.

It's what I'd consider to be Englands best 15 with a very dangerous bench too, always preferred the solidity of Marler in the scrum starting to Mako and with Sinckler there we're not missing out on anything really.

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Post by Poorfour on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 8:23 am

Marler/Sinckler and Mako/Cole are my preferred pairings. It means you always have a setpiece and defensive specialist and a ball player on the park.

I am expecting to see England play with Kyle and Mako at first receiver at some point during the tournament, but I also expect that Eddie won't show his hand until he needs to.
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Post by Gooseberry on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:03 am

This could be the first game that reminds us of all the pre tournament angst about the lack of a specialist full back. Don't expect England to find it quite so easy to dominate possession and territory as they did in the last couple. Its hard to see how they lose this though and have such a strong front row to bring on. 

The idea of throwing games is bonkers. If a teams easily qualified already for the last one there might be an element of lacking the same application they would have if it was a must win, but thats very different to deliberately losing to fix an easier quarter. If you want to win the cup youre going to have to face the big teams at some point, and whilst Wales can lay fair claim to being a tougher opponent than Aus the game between them showed theres not exactly much of a gap between the top sides and that Aus have fronted up to this world cup. 


Looking at the side too despite all the players whove been in and out of England squads over the past few years its not that different (flankers aside) to one that might've been predicted 4 years ago. Im over the moon for Tuillagi that he not only managed to win his place back against all the odds but is also showing he genuinely deserves it and has the same threat he did 6 years ago. Given how let down he felt by the RFU and how close he came to taking the money in France twice it really shows that loyalty to his home club and family has payed off. Also Jones might not be the best and managing his backroom staff but seems to be very good with his player management and always let Manu know he still had a future if he could find this form again. Compared to the way other problem players have been managed by England in recent years its quite refreshing. 

(Fully expect England to have a god awful game and lose now, Tuillagi get sent off for punching someone, and them lose to France as well)

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Post by hugehandoff on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:17 am

Soul Requiem wrote:It should be a routine win on paper but then again this is England at a world cup so expect us to make hard work of it.

It's what I'd consider to be Englands best 15 with a very dangerous bench too, always preferred the solidity of Marler in the scrum starting to Mako and with Sinckler there we're not missing out on anything really.

I would not be saying this at all. Argentina are a quality side who could well beat us. England are rightfully favourites, but that guarantees nothing. I expect a hard and closely fought contest with (hopefully) England pulling away at the conclusion. No chickens being counted for me though Erm

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:34 am

Ford, JJ, Manu.

Why worry about defence when you will score 20 more points than the opposition?
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:35 am

hugehandoff wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:It should be a routine win on paper but then again this is England at a world cup so expect us to make hard work of it.

It's what I'd consider to be Englands best 15 with a very dangerous bench too, always preferred the solidity of Marler in the scrum starting to Mako and with Sinckler there we're not missing out on anything really.

I would not be saying this at all. Argentina are a quality side who could well beat us. England are rightfully favourites, but that guarantees nothing. I expect a hard and closely fought contest with (hopefully) England pulling away at the conclusion. No chickens being counted for me though Erm

Argentina were a quality side four years, a lot has changed since then, I'd be shocked if the match is in any way close.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:36 am

Pie wrote:Would Wales throw a game to avoid Eng in 1/4s?

Step up Fiji.
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Post by BamBam on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:59 am

Looks our best possible side at the moment, JJ and Wilson probably the unluckiest to miss out on the 23. Great to see Mako, Slade and Nowell back, robbo's ideal world looks bang on imo


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Post by propdavid_london on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 10:24 am

Who covers 8 if Bill gets crocked? Curry? or can Ludlam cover?
Apart from the usual gripes about Daly at 15 and not Watson - its pretty much whats expected.
I think I prefer Sinkler coming off the bench with impact over Cole.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 10:34 am

Daly's last chance surely, the guy can't execute a 2 v 1 or catch a cold at the moment.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 10:50 am

I see no reason why jones will change from daly now. He can see the same as everyone else yet prefers what he adds over any deficiencies.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 11:22 am

He should. will cost us.
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Post by Poorfour on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 11:56 am

Agreed. But he's unlikely to change it. We just have to hope that Watson and Nowell will cover
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Post by robbo277 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 12:23 pm

Not as worried about Daly at 15 as others. The same people would be happy to see him on the wing and wingers have to contest just as many high balls really.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 1:05 pm

He has actually won a couple of contested up and unders now so you never know jones may make a full back of him this wc!

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 1:18 pm

Daly is more of a FU than a FB.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 1:19 pm

Didn't realise that Sanchez has been left out. Bit of a surprise.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

Created a match thread, think this game is worthy of one!

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 2:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Didn't realise that Sanchez has been left out. Bit of a surprise.

I read it was some kind of punishment. It means that 10 will be covered by a centre with 1 cap who plays for an Amateur team. Should think Urdapileta will stay on for 80 unless injured.

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 5:45 pm

Not been a good WC for Sanchez or Foley. Both similar-ish players, both look like they're at the end of their test careers barring injury or a surprising comeback for Argentina and one of Eng or France to bottle it.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 8:23 pm

miaow wrote:Not been a good WC for Sanchez or Foley. Both similar-ish players, both look like they're at the end of their test careers barring injury or a surprising comeback for Argentina and one of Eng or France to bottle it.

Sanchez is a limited player, I think he got away with it more on the international stage when he had El Mago in the backline with him. Now there's some real quality in the backline but no one that is an easily identifiable second playmaker. As such a lot is falling on his shoulders and he looked to be struggling. Has been struggling for a while to be fair.

Foley just looks on a different page to the rest of his backline. Foley looks like he wants to play tactically and then work the ball wide. The Australian backline on the other hand is all running hard and wanting to play flat. It's why the looked better when Toomua came on last time out.

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