Brexit

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:39 am

First topic message reminder :

Tea anyone?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:00 pm

Shifty wrote:...so they forced it upon people a lot of the countries that were gullible enough to jump off a cliff.

I didn't know that. How did they force it on people? The individual governments of those countries joined without consulting the people?

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:22 pm

RORY heart heart

https://twitter.com/rorystewartuk/status/1168266343793221632?s=21

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:13 pm

Rebels - "Please meet with us to show us proof that you are genuinely seeking a deal, which is what you are saying."

BJ (thinking) - "Err, I'm not seeking a deal at all, I've been lying all along. What do I tell them?"

BJ - "No, I won't meet with you, just vote with me or you're sacked."

BJ's supporters (thinking) "Good old Boris, he's a jolly good liar, and so are we."

BJ's supporters - "This is all perfectly normal."

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Post by It Must Be Love on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:25 pm

With Tories and Labour both heading off to the extremes, who do reasonable people vote for?
I didn’t mind the Lib Dem’s in the past, but now their main policy position is 2nd ref which I’m opposed to.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:29 pm

There isn't anyone left for reasonable people to vote for.
All we can do now is vote against the one we think is the worst, even if that means tactically voting for someone we think is quite bad.

I have never been more ashamed of this country than I am at the moment - not just the politicians, but a lot of the people as well.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:43 am

Soul Requiem wrote:The polls don't show that at all and you're extrapolating information that simply is not there, if you'd ever been to a party conference you'd the actual position of party members.

"My completely anecdotal examples are far more compelling and true than your irrelevant facts and figures."

Didn't you get the memo, Julius? We live in a post-truth society now. If you repeat something that's total bull testicles enough times, it becomes established fact.

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Post by Samo on Mon Sep 02, 2019 6:53 am

Government reports show that if we leave with No Deal, trucks coming from the continent will see a backup of 2 days. Presently trucks pass through the border within two minutes. Best case scenario see’s trucks taking 2-3 hours to get through, with 50% estimated to take atleast 8.

But by all means keep harping on about how there wont be any food or medicine shortages.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:15 am

Pr4wn wrote:
Soul Requiem wrote:The polls don't show that at all and you're extrapolating information that simply is not there, if you'd ever been to a party conference you'd the actual position of party members.

"My completely anecdotal examples are far more compelling and true than your irrelevant facts and figures."

Didn't you get the memo, Julius? We live in a post-truth society now. If you repeat something that's total bull testicles enough times, it becomes established fact.

I didn't think you believed in polls or have you suddenly had a change of heart?

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:23 am

That's it. Play the man, not the ball. Good lad.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:28 am

That's exactly what you just did, try and be consistent for a change.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:31 am

I attacked your non-existent argument, albeit in a rather sarcastic and belittling manner. Because you don't have an argument beyond "but that's not true".

Julius has given you solid data and it's not good enough for you.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:33 am

Pr4wn wrote:I attacked your non-existent argument, albeit in a rather sarcastic and belittling manner. Because you don't have an argument beyond "but that's not true".

Julius has given you solid data and it's not good enough for you.

It sums it up that you now think it's solid data, the person who doesn't believe in polls.

Asking a closed question with a limited number of options doesn't equate to a definitive answer, it would be akin to asking which party leader do you think will make the best PM? I may have a preference out of them but that doesn't mean I don't think there's a better option not included, it really is not rocket science.

I do find it strange how a moderator feels it acceptable to try and belittle others.

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:35 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I attacked your non-existent argument, albeit in a rather sarcastic and belittling manner. Because you don't have an argument beyond "but that's not true".

Julius has given you solid data and it's not good enough for you.

It sums it up that you now think it's solid data, the person who doesn't believe in polls.

Asking a closed question with a limited number of options doesn't equate to a definitive answer, it would be akin to asking which party leader do you think will make the best PM? I may have a preference out of them but that doesn't mean I don't think there's a better option not included, it really is not rocket science.

I do find it strange how a moderator feels it acceptable to try and belittle others.

It's significantly more than you've offered. Whistle

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Post by Soul Requiem on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:38 am

You don't understand the point I'm making do you? Cool

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:40 am

You're not making any point whatsoever. You're asking closed questions of others' evidence while offering absolutely none of your own, then personally going after those that question your unsubstantiated theories.

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:44 am

Polls are only relevant to the time they exist in and depend on whether they are put together from an unbiased source.

Polls on Scottish independence cannot be compared to the results of same polls of six months or a year ago and certainly not from five years ago. Five years ago Scots voted no on the belief their place in the EU was safeguarded - my how times have changed.

It is akin to polling people now on whether they'd contemplate suicide? The number would be fairly low I'd say. However, if news broke that an asteroid was going to destroy the Earth next week then the poll results would differ greatly tomorrow.
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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:47 am

Meanwhile, another leaked official government report has detailed that all of the proposed solutions to the Irish Backstop issue would be beset with issues.

A direct quote from the report: " “It is evident that every facilitation has concerns and issues related to them. The complexity of combining them into something more systemic and as part of one package is a key missing factor at present.”

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:53 am

Soul Requiem wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:I attacked your non-existent argument, albeit in a rather sarcastic and belittling manner. Because you don't have an argument beyond "but that's not true".

Julius has given you solid data and it's not good enough for you.

It sums it up that you now think it's solid data, the person who doesn't believe in polls.

Asking a closed question with a limited number of options doesn't equate to a definitive answer, it would be akin to asking which party leader do you think will make the best PM? I may have a preference out of them but that doesn't mean I don't think there's a better option not included, it really is not rocket science.

I do find it strange how a moderator feels it acceptable to try and belittle others.

You're the one who brought up the polls to back up your argument. Now you're saying those polls don't prove anything.

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Post by BamBam on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:10 am

The government now denouncing the experts they used themselves to compile Operation Yellowhammer

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/special-shows/ring-rees-mogg/jacob-rees-mogg-rows-with-doctor-no-deal-brexit/

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Post by maestegmafia on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:15 am

Soul Requiem wrote:Different situation altogether, the membership are the one who provide the party with a means to survive and the party should be acting in their best interests not the other way round.

Government policy and party policy are two different things.

And those that democratically elect should they not be represented by their MP?

I really believe that this Tory lead shambles we have had for the last six years has proven that an open vote and no whips is a far more democratic parliament and more representative of the electorate.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:25 am

Shifty wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There is a big difference between having the Euro as a currency and being a member of the EU.

When you write, in quotes, "no one in all the debates during the referendum could actually tell me what benefit to us the EU was" - who is that quote from?

The quote was from me.

The people running the EU are the same people who set up the Euro, the same people who were willing to inflict all this misery on European citizens so they could build the project.  Even going back to 1990 reading Norman Lamont's autobiography you will read the name Jean Claude Junker in that book.

It's why I'm worried.  I can see that Tommy Robinson could potentially be our Hitler, for most British World War 2 was not a bad thing.  It's was a backs to the wall heroic war won with British Bull Dog spirit.  We didn't surrender like the Italians, Germans and French to learn the lessons.  He has his scapegoat in Muslims, as Hitler did the Jews.  Still though if I didn't have Farage, I'd still vote UKIP over the Liberals, Tories and Labour because I think they are even worse!

Excuse me?!

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:37 am

Shifty wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There is a big difference between having the Euro as a currency and being a member of the EU.

When you write, in quotes, "no one in all the debates during the referendum could actually tell me what benefit to us the EU was" - who is that quote from?

The quote was from me.

The people running the EU are the same people who set up the Euro, the same people who were willing to inflict all this misery on European citizens so they could build the project.  Even going back to 1990 reading Norman Lamont's autobiography you will read the name Jean Claude Junker in that book.

It's why I'm worried.  I can see that Tommy Robinson could potentially be our Hitler, for most British World War 2 was not a bad thing.  It's was a backs to the wall heroic war won with British Bull Dog spirit.  We didn't surrender like the Italians, Germans and French to learn the lessons.  He has his scapegoat in Muslims, as Hitler did the Jews.  Still though if I didn't have Farage, I'd still vote UKIP over the Liberals, Tories and Labour because I think they are even worse!

You're Mark Francois and I claim my five pounds.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:13 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Shifty wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There is a big difference between having the Euro as a currency and being a member of the EU.

When you write, in quotes, "no one in all the debates during the referendum could actually tell me what benefit to us the EU was" - who is that quote from?

The quote was from me.

The people running the EU are the same people who set up the Euro, the same people who were willing to inflict all this misery on European citizens so they could build the project.  Even going back to 1990 reading Norman Lamont's autobiography you will read the name Jean Claude Junker in that book.

It's why I'm worried.  I can see that Tommy Robinson could potentially be our Hitler, for most British World War 2 was not a bad thing.  It's was a backs to the wall heroic war won with British Bull Dog spirit.  We didn't surrender like the Italians, Germans and French to learn the lessons.  He has his scapegoat in Muslims, as Hitler did the Jews.  Still though if I didn't have Farage, I'd still vote UKIP over the Liberals, Tories and Labour because I think they are even worse!

Excuse me?!
Yeah. Absurd, eh?
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Post by lostinwales on Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:56 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Shifty wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There is a big difference between having the Euro as a currency and being a member of the EU.

When you write, in quotes, "no one in all the debates during the referendum could actually tell me what benefit to us the EU was" - who is that quote from?

The quote was from me.

The people running the EU are the same people who set up the Euro, the same people who were willing to inflict all this misery on European citizens so they could build the project.  Even going back to 1990 reading Norman Lamont's autobiography you will read the name Jean Claude Junker in that book.

It's why I'm worried.  I can see that Tommy Robinson could potentially be our Hitler, for most British World War 2 was not a bad thing.  It's was a backs to the wall heroic war won with British Bull Dog spirit.  We didn't surrender like the Italians, Germans and French to learn the lessons.  He has his scapegoat in Muslims, as Hitler did the Jews.  Still though if I didn't have Farage, I'd still vote UKIP over the Liberals, Tories and Labour because I think they are even worse!

Excuse me?!
Yeah. Absurd, eh?

Its funny. It's like someone on Twitter talking about Waterloo being a great British victory. And yes we provided the commander and some elite troops. But the British contingent was 25K out of over 100K not including Blucher, and plenty of those were Hanoverian mercenaries or Irish.

As for WWII people did have good wars. No question. But then they were the ones who didn't see the bombing or suffered from the rationing, didn't have family members killed or maimed, didn't have their livelihoods bombed out, and didnt have to worry about the costs of rebuilding and the 50 years of debt we were left with (The good old 'special relationship' with creepy Uncle Sam that we are not supposed to tell anybody else about). And if you want to go all imperial you can talk of how it lead directly to the loss of the remaining empire.

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Post by BamBam on Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:05 am

Pr4wn wrote:
Shifty wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:There is a big difference between having the Euro as a currency and being a member of the EU.

When you write, in quotes, "no one in all the debates during the referendum could actually tell me what benefit to us the EU was" - who is that quote from?

The quote was from me.

The people running the EU are the same people who set up the Euro, the same people who were willing to inflict all this misery on European citizens so they could build the project.  Even going back to 1990 reading Norman Lamont's autobiography you will read the name Jean Claude Junker in that book.

It's why I'm worried.  I can see that Tommy Robinson could potentially be our Hitler, for most British World War 2 was not a bad thing.  It's was a backs to the wall heroic war won with British Bull Dog spirit.  We didn't surrender like the Italians, Germans and French to learn the lessons.  He has his scapegoat in Muslims, as Hitler did the Jews.  Still though if I didn't have Farage, I'd still vote UKIP over the Liberals, Tories and Labour because I think they are even worse!

You're Mark Francois and I claim my five pounds.

I actually think he's this bloke

https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/brexit-caller-complained-cut-himself-off/

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Post by Pr4wn on Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:59 pm

Oh Ken.... Laugh

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:05 pm

More respect for ex Chancellor Hammond now than I had in the three years he was in the treasury..

Seems 15 Tories have said they won't be moved over No Deal and deselections threats..

Taking away a few Labour rebels...

Should be enough to beat Johnson if they hold firm..

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:10 pm

Cabinet meeting called for this afternoon - looks like Johnson's going to call a general election.




(Who's going to tell him he needs to consent of two-thirds of those pesky MPs in order to get one?)

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Post by Duty281 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:(Who's going to tell him he needs to consent of two-thirds of those pesky MPs in order to get one?)

The easiest thing in the world to get. No way will Labour's MPs turn down the chance of a GE...one bad result and they can be shot of Corbyn.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:27 pm

We'll see if they're as stupid as you think they are, Duty.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:42 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:(Who's going to tell him he needs to consent of two-thirds of those pesky MPs in order to get one?)

The easiest thing in the world to get. No way will Labour's MPs turn down the chance of a GE...one bad result and they can be shot of Corbyn.
They'd be dumb to accept the challenge now I think. Boris will simply name a date post-Oct 31st. Even if he names one before, he can change the date afterwards (to post-Oct 31st, of course) without having to ask Parliament.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:15 pm

Plus calling an election now gives the lie to the idea that the government is serious about renegotiating a deal.

Donald Tusk's 'do not waste this time' comes to mind.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:18 pm

Majority of Labour Mps will do what the whips tell them...

So it's Corbyn's choice....Many are in marginals and won't want to lose their seats...So getting rid of Corbyn is little consolation.

Johnson's problem is the remain coalition...If Lib Dems...Greens...Labour...SNP...work together he has a problem...

But will they ???.....After the Euros the Lib Dems may fancy some Labour seats in the Capital and elsewhere..

Think Johnson wins handily but I thought May was going to win a landslide and Hillary for that matter.

Elections are strange things..

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:33 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Majority of Labour Mps will do what the whips tell them...

So it's Corbyn's choice....Many are in marginals and won't want to lose their seats...So getting rid of Corbyn is little consolation.

Johnson's problem is the remain coalition...If Lib Dems...Greens...Labour...SNP...work together he has a problem...

But will they ???
.....After the Euros the Lib Dems may fancy some Labour seats in the Capital and elsewhere..

Think Johnson wins handily but I thought May was going to win a landslide and Hillary for that matter.

Elections are strange things..
Key point. Field a single, best chance, candidate for each seat on a case-by-case basis with agreement that if Tories don't win a majority, none of them work with them (the Tories) in coalition leaving them with the problem of governing as a minority? Not sure how it helps as I think if a GE was pre-Oct 31st and Boris only has chance of minority Government thereafter, he sits on his hands until we crash out. In any GE pre-Oct 31st, some other single party has to return more MPs than the Tories to get a chance to stop the juggernaut. Be interesting to see what happens tomorrow; some sort of new Statute or a successful legal challenge of the prorogation advice might have a better chance of success. Personally, I don't think Johnson gives a toss anymore - he can now say he was PM, which I think is all he ever wanted and the Country can go swivel.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Plus calling an election now gives the lie to the idea that the government is serious about renegotiating a deal.

Donald Tusk's 'do not waste this time' comes to mind.

Renegotiating?

What part of no renegotiations on May's 'deal' will be negotiated on?  The non negotiatable Backstop?

The EU know only one way to negotiate.  Produce an ultimatum and stick to it.

Cameron went how many times to Europe to tell them Britain was serious, the people would choose to leave completely if there were not major changes to the EU itself?  They laughed it all off.  "You're getting nothing kid.  Go home and behave".  
So eventually Cameron went home, the Referendum took place and shock.... the British people responded to the lack of negotiating skill of the EU.  And then the EU, and Mr Tusk personally, has the gall to talk about places in hell for British politicians who destroyed the EU dream.  
The autocratic pompous EU leaders haven't a clue how to negotiate.  They're too familiar with clicking their fingers.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:50 pm

And now, here's what Donald Tusk actually said:

'By the way, I have been wondering what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.'

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Plus calling an election now gives the lie to the idea that the government is serious about renegotiating a deal.

Donald Tusk's 'do not waste this time' comes to mind.

Renegotiating?

What part of no renegotiations on May's 'deal' will be negotiated on?  The non negotiatable Backstop?

The EU know only one way to negotiate.  Produce an ultimatum and stick to it.

Cameron went how many times to Europe to tell them Britain was serious, the people would choose to leave completely if there were not major changes to the EU itself?  They laughed it all off.  "You're getting nothing kid.  Go home and behave".  
So eventually Cameron went home, the Referendum took place and shock.... the British people responded to the lack of negotiating skill of the EU.  And then the EU, and Mr Tusk personally, has the gall to talk about places in hell for British politicians who destroyed the EU dream.  
The autocratic pompous EU leaders haven't a clue how to negotiate.  They're too familiar with clicking their fingers.
picard
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Post by SecretFly on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:10 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:And now, here's what Donald Tusk actually said:

'By the way, I have been wondering what the special place in hell looks like for those who promoted Brexit without even a sketch of a plan how to carry it out safely.'

His people put up the wall of Backstop.  He knows the game he's played and is playing....delaying the will of the people by inserting the Backstop.  May knew too.  Brexit has been to date 'negotiated' by Remainers...both in UK and in Europe.  And people act surprised that the tendrils are still attached some three years after the Referendum?  
Who knows what Boris is?  Already the assumption here earlier is that he was a pleasant enough Europhile not all that long ago.  Perhaps he still is behind the scenes; putting up a good show to kill off the threat of Farage lurking.
Negotiations might help the safety net.... but of course, the EU wants to renegotiate without renegotiating.  

Special place in hell and all that jazz. All the plans have been designed by Remainers so far. Let's see what Boris really is now.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:14 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Plus calling an election now gives the lie to the idea that the government is serious about renegotiating a deal.

Donald Tusk's 'do not waste this time' comes to mind.

Renegotiating?

What part of no renegotiations on May's 'deal' will be negotiated on?  The non negotiatable Backstop?

The EU know only one way to negotiate.  Produce an ultimatum and stick to it.

Cameron went how many times to Europe to tell them Britain was serious, the people would choose to leave completely if there were not major changes to the EU itself?  They laughed it all off.  "You're getting nothing kid.  Go home and behave".  
So eventually Cameron went home, the Referendum took place and shock.... the British people responded to the lack of negotiating skill of the EU.  And then the EU, and Mr Tusk personally, has the gall to talk about places in hell for British politicians who destroyed the EU dream.  
The autocratic pompous EU leaders haven't a clue how to negotiate.  They're too familiar with clicking their fingers.
picard

I know I know. Donald Tusk, Patron Saint of Remain UK. Special place in Hell for his critics. Carry on.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:16 pm

There's not much point replying to you now, Fly.

All I'll say is that if supporting the backstop makes someone a Remainer, then you need to have a word with virtually the entire cabinet. All but two of them voted for the current withdrawal agreement.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Plus calling an election now gives the lie to the idea that the government is serious about renegotiating a deal.

Donald Tusk's 'do not waste this time' comes to mind.

Renegotiating?

What part of no renegotiations on May's 'deal' will be negotiated on?  The non negotiatable Backstop?

The EU know only one way to negotiate.  Produce an ultimatum and stick to it.

Cameron went how many times to Europe to tell them Britain was serious, the people would choose to leave completely if there were not major changes to the EU itself?  They laughed it all off.  "You're getting nothing kid.  Go home and behave".  
So eventually Cameron went home, the Referendum took place and shock.... the British people responded to the lack of negotiating skill of the EU.  And then the EU, and Mr Tusk personally, has the gall to talk about places in hell for British politicians who destroyed the EU dream.  
The autocratic pompous EU leaders haven't a clue how to negotiate.  They're too familiar with clicking their fingers.
picard

I know I know.  Donald Tusk, Patron Saint of Remain UK.  Special place in Hell for his critics.  Carry on.
Not really. I'm just continually amazed at your blind faith in conspiracy.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:18 pm

To the conspiracy theorist, denial is confirmation.

(I came up with that angel )

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:22 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:There's not much point replying to you now, Fly.

All I'll say is that if supporting the backstop makes someone a Remainer, then you need to have a word with virtually the entire cabinet. All but two of them voted for the current withdrawal agreement.

If you cannot see the technical reason for applying a now ruthlessly non-negotiable Backstop as a stalling mechanism for final Brexit then yes, the current cabinet might be the best place to seek advice...coz everyone knows why Backstop is there. Like I said, to date, Brexit has been negotiated by Remainers.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:40 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Not really. I'm just continually amazed at your blind faith in conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy that the top Princes of the EU are furious that the UK has voted to Leave their club?  That's a conspiracy?
It's a conspiracy that May is, was and ever shall be a Remainer who chimed 'Brexit means Brexit' and never meant a word of it?  That's a conspiracy?
It's a conspiracy that the bulk of politicians of all persuasions are afraid of the influence of Farage and his Brexit Party?  That's a conspiracy theory?
It's a conspiracy theory to doubt the true intentions of people like Boris and Gove when on these very pages, Remainers are castigating Boris for being a political opportunist and turning himself into a 'Eurosceptic' for personal political capital?  That's a conspiracy?

No, all that is just common sense.  

The thing that annoys you guys is that I don't argue the case conventionally.  You all love when people pretend to believe that the Brexiteers are all genuine Brexiteers and that all people who profess they want a Brexit with a Deal are not in reality just rabid Remainers trying to delay the process until the magic number of youth turn up at the polling booths to call the whole thing off.

I don't fall for guff.  Remainers still exist.  They haven't turned into Brexiteers (with Deal).  They are Remainers, that's their ideology.  I repeat, time will tell what Boris really is.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:07 pm

Boris has got a puppy. His victory is therefore assured.

Brexit was always impossible with no clear mandate on how (let alone ideas etc) All is left is blaming the EU and 'Remoaners' for pointing out the features that make it impossible. Crashing out with no deal is just the threat of shooting ourselves if the EU doesn't let us have our way.

The scariest thing is that no deal might still happen. My main hope on that front is that some of the honest downtrodden working multimillionaires who have helped fund Boris so far have made enough money back betting on currency fluctuations every time Boris threatens something more extreme, and don't want to risk their pounds becoming worthless.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:The thing that annoys you guys is that I don't argue the case conventionally.

It doesn't annoy us. What frustrates us is that you don't argue the case coherently.

JuliusHMarx
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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Not really. I'm just continually amazed at your blind faith in conspiracy.

It's a conspiracy that the top Princes of the EU are furious that the UK has voted to Leave their club?  That's a conspiracy?
It's a conspiracy that May is, was and ever shall be a Remainer who chimed 'Brexit means Brexit' and never meant a word of it?  That's a conspiracy?
It's a conspiracy that the bulk of politicians of all persuasions are afraid of the influence of Farage and his Brexit Party?  That's a conspiracy theory?
It's a conspiracy theory to doubt the true intentions of people like Boris and Gove when on these very pages, Remainers are castigating Boris for being a political opportunist and turning himself into a 'Eurosceptic' for personal political capital?  That's a conspiracy?

No, all that is just common sense.  

The thing that annoys you guys is that I don't argue the case conventionally.  You all love when people pretend to believe that the Brexiteers are all genuine Brexiteers and that all people who profess they want a Brexit with a Deal are not in reality just rabid Remainers trying to delay the process until the magic number of youth turn up at the polling booths to call the whole thing off.

I don't fall for guff.  Remainers still exist.  They haven't turned into Brexiteers (with Deal).  They are Remainers, that's their ideology.  I repeat, time will tell what Boris really is.
None of that equates to the meaning you place upon it all. It's your conspiracy theory. Time will tell, but one thing's for sure, you'll be right whatever the ultimate outcome.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:20 pm

lostinwales wrote:Boris has got a puppy. His victory is therefore assured.

Brexit was always impossible with no clear mandate on how (let alone ideas etc) All is left is blaming the EU and 'Remoaners' for pointing out the features that make it impossible. Crashing out with no deal is just the threat of shooting ourselves if the EU doesn't let us have our way.

The scariest thing is that no deal might still happen. My main hope on that front is that some of the honest downtrodden working multimillionaires who have helped fund Boris so far have made enough money back betting on currency fluctuations every time Boris threatens something more extreme, and don't want to risk their pounds becoming worthless.
**** me. That's alright then. Nothing to worry about folks.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:25 pm

SecretFly wrote:  You all love when people pretend to believe that the Brexiteers are all genuine Brexiteers and that all people who profess they want a Brexit with a Deal are not in reality just rabid Remainers trying to delay the process until the magic number of youth turn up at the polling booths to call the whole thing off.

I hate to tell you this, Fly, but we're going to need a deal with the EU eventually. Even if we leave without a deal on 31st October.

The Nazi b*stards!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:50 pm

Boris puppy story is straight out of the Nixon play book..

In 56 Eisenhower was considering dumping Tricky Dicky as Vice President over some gifts he 'forgot' to declare...Smokescreen really because the real reason was he thought Nixon was a complete moron...

So Nixon took his dog on TV and in the most puke inducing segment in network history...Stroked his dog 'Checkers' while commenting that my friend here is a gift I will never give up..

Unfortunately it worked...So Eisenhower had to spend another four years sending him all over the World to keep him out of Washington.

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