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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 9:12 am

.... anyway, so we won the game fair and square! And don't nobody say no different!!!!!!!


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Post by rodders on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 9:41 am

Not sure how seriously Wales took those 2 games but two solid performances for us. Plenty to work on but it looks like we are timing our pre season well for once...
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Post by Noble-Surfer on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 9:42 am

Congrats Ireland- fully deserved to win the game. I do think it could have been completely different if we had been more clinical in the first 20, but credit to Ireland, they absorbed that pressure, and then made their own pressure count. Wales will need to be more clinical with chances created in the World Cup.

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 9:51 am

rodders wrote:Not sure how seriously Wales took those 2 games but two solid performances for us. Plenty to work on but it looks like we are timing our pre season well for once...

Hard to tell really, where both teams are in terms of their training. I still think Wales haven't tapered off and some players for both teams were probably worried about getting through the games.

Lots of work for Wales to do in terms of ball in hand and attacking play. If Gatland really isn't showing his hand then fair play to him, but it seems unlikely. If anything, the three defeats do us a favour (hopefully), as we seemingly can't rely on defence for the WC like we could in the 6 Nations and will have to also score tries.

P.S. Harmony heart

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Post by Old Man on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:00 am

There is always one question that arise out of matches where coaches experiment.

If one country’s A team beats Country B’s, B team quite comfortably then does it speak to a lack of depth?

Top tier nations strive to build depth, thus you would expect B teams to be competitive?

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Post by rodders on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:07 am

RiscaGame wrote:
rodders wrote:Not sure how seriously Wales took those 2 games but two solid performances for us. Plenty to work on but it looks like we are timing our pre season well for once...

Hard to tell really, where both teams are in terms of their training. I still think Wales haven't tapered off and some players for both teams were probably worried about getting through the games.

I agree with this, I think Ireland need to peak sooner so are probably just a bit ahead of Wales in terms of preparation.

I think Ireland will be the happier of the 2 sides but shouldn't read too much into it.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:09 am

Old Man wrote:There is always one question that arise out of matches where coaches experiment.

If one country’s A team beats Country B’s, B team quite comfortably then does it speak to a lack of depth?

Top tier nations strive to build depth, thus you would expect B teams to be competitive?

Depends on the actual teams....resources, money, facilities, number of 'club' teams to work from, etc.

You can only collect International standard players based on the other factors at play that creates them.  So for a side like England for example, in theory much easier to throw out a Team B that technically isn't that far off Team A.  Now all A teams have a little dose of X factor players - players that just seem to have the instincts that go beyond training and strategy.... but basically, it's easier for some Nations to both fund and procure a B team that might have closer affinity to A team standards than other Nations.

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Post by Old Man on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:12 am

SecretFly wrote:
Old Man wrote:There is always one question that arise out of matches where coaches experiment.

If one country’s A team beats Country B’s, B team quite comfortably then does it speak to a lack of depth?

Top tier nations strive to build depth, thus you would expect B teams to be competitive?

Depends on the actual teams....resources, money, facilities, number of 'club' teams to work from, etc.

You can only collect International standard players based on the other factors at play that creates them.  So for a side like England for example, in theory much easier to throw out a Team B that technically isn't that far off Team A.  Now all A teams have a little dose of X factor players - players that just seem to have the instincts that go beyond training and strategy.... but basically, it's easier for some Nations to both fund and procure a B team that might have closer affinity to A team standards than other Nations.

Agreed, but looking at this world cup which teams have shown they have enough depth to get through to the final?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 10:45 am

Wales player: "Sneeze, cough."
French ref: "Advantage to Ireland!"

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:05 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Wales player: "Sneeze, cough."
French ref: "Advantage to Ireland!"
 
Mikey,


This just falls on the side of banter, but with all the posts you have made this weekend I fully understand why someone has reported your post.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:14 am

rodders wrote:Not sure how seriously Wales took those 2 games but two solid performances for us. Plenty to work on but it looks like we are timing our pre season well for once...


I think we (Wales/management) took it as serious as possible. Not sure about the players - who knows if they were holding something back to avoid injury or strain. I'd like to think not. But it is impossible to know.

I'd say we were beaten fair and square and I think in that 2nd game in particular Ireland just out played us physically and tactically. We were beaten up, essentially. A bit like Wales did to Ireland in the 6N. Just with a slightly closer scoreline this time!

Saying that I do not think, personally, that it will have a major bearing on Wales going in to the world cup. People will talk about the mental health consequences, about loss of confidence, about the effects on the players and staff of losing top spot. But we've been here before and have lost games (e.g. autumn internationals), all was doom and gloom, and then we've come and won a grand slam a month or two later. So Wales are old hands at losing and ending up in a trough and then coming in to the next tournament and surprising a few people and riding the crest of a wave back up to a peak. In fact, I always feel Wales are better when not coming off the back of a load of success. Call it underdog mentality if you like, and I know that will be called a 'loser mentality', or similar, by Taylorman! But whatever. History shows that Wales struggle to cope with time at the top (e.g. 6N, world rankings, best in Europe, etc.). I reckon they'll do OK at the World Cup Smile
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:16 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Wales player: "Sneeze, cough."
French ref: "Advantage to Ireland!"

Only advantage? Welsh player knowingly bringing virus onto the pitch pre WC? Should be a three week ban. Ref missed that. Wink

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Post by rodders on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:26 am

The Oracle wrote:
rodders wrote:Not sure how seriously Wales took those 2 games but two solid performances for us. Plenty to work on but it looks like we are timing our pre season well for once...


I think we (Wales/management) took it as serious as possible.  Not sure about the players - who knows if they were holding something back to avoid injury or strain.  I'd like to think not.  But it is impossible to know.  

I'd say we were beaten fair and square and I think in that 2nd game in particular Ireland just out played us physically and tactically.  We were beaten up, essentially.  A bit like Wales did to Ireland in the 6N.  Just with a slightly closer scoreline this time!

Yes sure I agree but I think part of the physical edge Ireland had was probably down to our players being a bit sharper. Wales front runners probably are a bit behind with the tapering, as said above, hence they seemed to fall away completely after half time.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:32 am

I think none of us (apologies to any Japanese 606v2 users) having home advantage will play quite a part in a few weeks' time. Dublin's a horrible place for a visiting side, as is Cardiff, Twickenham... the test will be which of us is least reliant on home advantage.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 11:45 am

Halfpenny looked like a Mini-Me Schwarzenegger.  Now I know this happens in every big competition with Gatland and Wales.  The pump up and then the performances.

Is that what it's done for? Pump up to make players more durable to the impacts and add weight to physical encounters, then to incrementally let the ultra muscle conditioning bleed off into increasing killer tempo through a contest?

I'm always intrigued by the Welsh bulking up phase that a side like Ireland never seems to want to mimic.  Think we did it once pre-WC with O'Sullivan and....well, that didn't work out so well for us. Whistle   So maybe we distrust the benefits of it ever since.

I know that Irish players obviously can take a physical game and have obviously done gym work to prepare for the competition, but Wales tends to always look like they place more emphasis on the pump up stages before contests.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:45 pm

SecretFly wrote:Halfpenny looked like a Mini-Me Schwarzenegger.  Now I know this happens in every big competition with Gatland and Wales.  The pump up and then the performances.

Is that what it's done for? Pump up to make players more durable to the impacts and add weight to physical encounters, then to incrementally let the ultra muscle conditioning bleed off into increasing killer tempo through a contest?

I'm always intrigued by the Welsh bulking up phase that a side like Ireland never seems to want to mimic.  Think we did it once pre-WC with O'Sullivan and....well, that didn't work out so well for us. Whistle   So maybe we distrust the benefits of it ever since.

I know that Irish players obviously can take a physical game and have obviously done gym work to prepare for the competition, but Wales tends to always look like they place more emphasis on the pump up stages before contests.


Not sure I agree. Halfpenny definitely looks beefier and I mentioned this on the match thread. But they don't look beefed up as a collective, IMO. Liam Williams is still looking a scrawny little so and so; Biggar and Patchell looked the same. Can't see much change to North or Adams. Adam Beard our lock for the future still looks like he lacks bulk. Tipuric looked the same., etc., etc. I thought some of Ireland's front row boys looked extra pumped, actually! That prop in the 2nd half (was he a replacement?) with the scrum cap and beard. Looked like a bull!

Just Halfpenny who has been bulking, for me! Maybe his time off for injury has meant he's gad more time to focus on lifting and less time to run it all off.
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Post by The Oracle on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:47 pm

The Oracle wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Halfpenny looked like a Mini-Me Schwarzenegger.  Now I know this happens in every big competition with Gatland and Wales.  The pump up and then the performances.

Is that what it's done for? Pump up to make players more durable to the impacts and add weight to physical encounters, then to incrementally let the ultra muscle conditioning bleed off into increasing killer tempo through a contest?

I'm always intrigued by the Welsh bulking up phase that a side like Ireland never seems to want to mimic.  Think we did it once pre-WC with O'Sullivan and....well, that didn't work out so well for us. Whistle   So maybe we distrust the benefits of it ever since.

I know that Irish players obviously can take a physical game and have obviously done gym work to prepare for the competition, but Wales tends to always look like they place more emphasis on the pump up stages before contests.


Not sure I agree.  Halfpenny definitely looks beefier and I mentioned this on the match thread.  But they don't look beefed up as a collective, IMO.  Liam Williams is still looking a scrawny little so and so; Biggar and Patchell looked the same.  Can't see much change to North or Adams.  Adam Beard our lock for the future still looks like he lacks bulk.  Tipuric looked the same., etc., etc.  I thought some of Ireland's front row boys looked extra pumped, actually!  That prop in the 2nd half (was he a replacement?) with the scrum cap and beard.  Looked like a bull!

Just Halfpenny who has been bulking, for me!  Maybe his time off for injury has meant he's gad more time to focus on lifting and less time to run it all off.


I think it was Porter?  And it might have been a taped head rather than a scrum cap?  Still....... looked a beast, whereas our props often look a bit flabby!  (Francis Smile )
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:49 pm

Nothing wrong with a bit of padding Wink

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:51 pm

Porter? That was just beer. Beer and late night card games, that's all that was.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:53 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Nothing wrong with a bit of padding Wink

True !

Yeah, I know it's not all about muscle.  A fatty with good technique and power will out scrummage a body builder, etc.  But some of those Irish boys looked powerful, muscly AND good scrummagers.  

I've never been convinced by Nicky Smith in the scrum.  Always looks a tad small for an international prop.  Sure that makes him mobile and another jackal option but I like players to be able to do their number one job exceptionally well and than anything else is a bonus.  Sometimes I think we do it the other way around!
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:56 pm

Mobility verses belly. The eternal conundrum of rugby

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Post by RiscaGame on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:57 pm

Halfpenny has always been pretty big, to be fair to him. I remember seeing him in a Men's Health article, where he looked huge then and that was a good five years ago. I suspect he is one of the Welsh players that DOC mentioned from the 2013 Lions, that like to do Blood Flow Restrictive training, so he will always look a bit pumped. Plus they tend to do primers before they come out, so somebody like Halfpenny (and Warburton when he played) will always look pretty "swole".

I am worried that we will look to play Smith, for the jackal option. Realistically we will be asking Francis to play as long as he can, by the looks too. It was probably worth trialling Carre again, with a stronger pack rather than play Smith. I got playing Wyn Jones, I just didn't really see the point in playing Smith on Saturday.

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Post by The Oracle on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 1:17 pm

SecretFly wrote:Mobility verses belly.  The eternal conundrum of rugby


And of life in general!
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