Japan 2019 - Pool B Canada Italy Namibia New Zealand South Africa

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
Italy220014952966210
New Zealand1100223131004
South Africa10011323-10100
Namibia100132247-2500
Canada10011748-4100


New Zealand 23 South Africa 10
Italy 47 Namibia 22
Italy 48 Canada 7 
                     

28 September 2019     South Africa v Namibia                   City of Toyota Stadium, Toyota
2 October 2019           New Zealand v Canada                   Oita Stadium, Ōita
4 October 2019           South Africa v Italy                        Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Fukuroi
6 October 2019           New Zealand v Namibia                  Tokyo Stadium, Chōfu
8 October 2019           South Africa v Canada                    Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
12 October 2019         New Zealand v Italy                        City of Toyota Stadium, Toyota
13 October 2019         Namibia v Canada                           Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium, Kamaishi


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 11:16 am; edited 4 times in total

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 8:44 pm

Yeah I think a lot of its about keeping fresh. Its an anomaly that before the biggest matches of the four year cycle for the ABs they get the easiest matches for the entire period.

Thats what makes this such a unique tournament.

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Post by Cyril on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 10:32 pm

Taylor, do you think NZ have already played their hardest game?

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 12:24 am

For me its always been about SA or England and I think we'll have to beat them both so nope. Truth is the final is going to be the hardest no matter who it is, if we get there. The physical and mental taxes on a side in the final is far greater than the first pool match.

For NZ fans like me who sat through 24 years of knowing and seeing that 'anything can happen' between 87 and 2011, we'll expect 'anything' once again, even being upset when we are favourites, because exactly that has happened...several times. My confidence comes from the learning we got out of all that, and that its not just this years side others are going up against, its all that learning that this side has inherited about what it takes to win this thing.

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Post by Cyril on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 12:37 am

A Yes or No would have been fine Wink

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 6:55 am

ABs not scoring a single point in the last 20 is a bit weird, beaudys and everyone’s dropsies aside.

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Post by LondonTiger on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:07 am

Cyril wrote:A Yes or No would have been fine Wink

But the full answer was better.

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Post by Cyril on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:15 am

Possibly.

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Post by Poorfour on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 8:25 am

Did anyone else notice that the SA Human Rights Commission is proceeding with a case against Etzebeth for an alleged racist incident? The Boks haven't taken action yet - but it could be hugely disruptive and if he has to fly home I am not sure if tournament rules let them replace him.
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Post by Taylorman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 9:19 am

Yes that’s hanging over them, just like Folau is hanging over oz like a wet blanket. He may have made the diff in the Wales match.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:15 pm

Hmmm, would they be so hard on a team that had to send a player home to face such a legal situation? "Nah, you can't have a replacement, South Africa".

That would be overly strict.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:15 pm

...after all, Wales got a replacement coach.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:...after all, Wales got a replacement coach.


We traded up! We part ex'd the Astra for an Aston Martin.
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Post by Soul Requiem on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:Hmmm, would they be so hard on a team that had to send a player home to face such a legal situation?  "Nah, you can't have a replacement, South Africa".

That would be overly strict.

Not really, South Africa picked him knowing the situation.

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:45 pm

Taylorman wrote:Yes that’s hanging over them, just like Folau is hanging over oz like a wet blanket. He may have made the diff in the Wales match.

Weird point to make.

Wales are missing a core of their team:

5. Cory Hill
6. Ellis Jenkins
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Gareth Anscombe

No one's talking about this. Wales are just quietly getting on with it. Australia were fortunate they didn't get 2 cards against Wales as they failed to get in to the game - they never led the test match. Can't really say one player is hanging over them, and definitely not to the point they were outclassed up front in the first half.

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Post by The Oracle on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 3:57 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yes that’s hanging over them, just like Folau is hanging over oz like a wet blanket. He may have made the diff in the Wales match.

Weird point to make.

Wales are missing a core of their team:

5. Cory Hill
6. Ellis Jenkins
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Gareth Anscombe

No one's talking about this. Wales are just quietly getting on with it. Australia were fortunate they didn't get 2 cards against Wales as they failed to get in to the game - they never led the test match. Can't really say one player is hanging over them, and definitely not to the point they were outclassed up front in the first half.


And Scott Quinnell. Missing him too. Graham Price also. And JPR. What we'd give for JPR now. Whistle
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:00 pm

Soul Requiem wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Hmmm, would they be so hard on a team that had to send a player home to face such a legal situation?  "Nah, you can't have a replacement, South Africa".

That would be overly strict.

Not really, South Africa picked him knowing the situation.

Knowing he was free to go on tour?  Surely if he wasn't free to go at that point, there would have been a halt put on by someone in authority somewhere.  He walked through airport departure with a passport, not hidden in a big suitcase.  South African Rugby union isn't the police.  They just take people who are allowed to go.  Or maybe World Rugby becomes the police and decides they'll punish South Africa in place of South African authorities.

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Post by Afro on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:00 pm

Even claiming Rhys Webb is a bit tenous, whilst claiming Ellis Jenkins as part of a core of their team. Not quite the same as Folau for Australia
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:03 pm

Yeah, how can you be missing a retired player? Besides, no excuse there anyway. He's already in Japan. If Gats wanted to pick Warburton, he's probably right in the same hotels. As is Shane - who could still be used in a semi-final if injuries mounted.

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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:28 pm

Never really rated Scott Gibbs but he'd improve the midfield weaknesses at the moment.
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Post by maestegmafia on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:31 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Never really rated Scott Gibbs but he'd improve the midfield weaknesses at the moment.

Have you ever rated any welsh player?


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Post by TightHEAD on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 4:33 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Never really rated Scott Gibbs but he'd improve the midfield weaknesses at the moment.

Have you ever rated any welsh player?


Scotty.
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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 5:47 pm

The Oracle wrote:And Scott Quinnell.  Missing him too.  Graham Price also.  And JPR.  What we'd give for JPR now.  Whistle

Except Warburton's, what, 29/30, and would be playing but for injury. The point is players lost who would/could/should be available, like Folau. Trite point, and poor debating etiquette, Oracle.

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 5:50 pm

Afro wrote:Even claiming Rhys Webb is a bit tenous, whilst claiming Ellis Jenkins as part of a core of their team. Not quite the same as Folau for Australia

Not tenuous at all. He's unavailable but still of playing age, and is a test Lion/top drawer test player.

Ellis Jenkins not proven, but definitely a core player of the team and will be once he returns.

The key point is that mentioning Folau is, largely, pointless. Wales are suffering in a way no other tier 1 nation is from unavailable players. Folau is largely irrelevant, certainly moreso than the core of the Welsh squad that is missing through various reasons.

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 5:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yeah, how can you be missing a retired player?

Pretty simple. He's still of playing age, would have been fully expected to play in this tournament and beyond, and is a multiple Lions captain, successful Wales captain, and one of the best players of the professional era. Simple stuff really. 29 isn't retiring age in rugby.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 6:59 pm

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Yes that’s hanging over them, just like Folau is hanging over oz like a wet blanket. He may have made the diff in the Wales match.

Weird point to make.

Wales are missing a core of their team:

5. Cory Hill
6. Ellis Jenkins
7. Sam Warburton
8. Toby Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Gareth Anscombe

No one's talking about this. Wales are just quietly getting on with it. Australia were fortunate they didn't get 2 cards against Wales as they failed to get in to the game - they never led the test match. Can't really say one player is hanging over them, and definitely not to the point they were outclassed up front in the first half.

It’s not weird, it’s just a fact. Folau has many times made the difference for oz, he’s often the reason they win when they should have lost, and the way that match played out could have been another. Granted Wales have players out as well, doesn’t mean it’s not a point to be made. I’m not pointing to excuses, just highlighting non rugby issues that may be impacting on some sides, perhaps unnecessarily. Wales absences are no doubt all injury based. Folaus is not. Nor would Ebens be.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:03 pm

miaow wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yeah, how can you be missing a retired player?

Pretty simple. He's still of playing age, would have been fully expected to play in this tournament and beyond, and is a multiple Lions captain, successful Wales captain, and one of the best players of the professional era. Simple stuff really. 29 isn't retiring age in rugby.

Yes, I know his record.  But apart from the tone of my comment which was intended to be on the humourous , the man is still retired.  

You cannot use his name as a player that Wales are missing from the World Cup and compare his absence with the possible absence of active players from other teams that may be missing due to injury.  You can only suffer from the loss of good players that might actually have been there if fit. Warburton is retired. Many of them retire because injury forces it.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:05 pm

Rhys Webb is possibly the only one that isn't injury based. And as Davies put in one hell of a performance I'm not sure what more Webb could have done!

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:17 pm

robbo277 wrote:Rhys Webb is possibly the only one that isn't injury based. And as Davies put in one hell of a performance I'm not sure what more Webb could have done!

Kept Aled Davies out of the world cup squad.

Anscombe and Webb can make a difference to any 23. Jenkins arguably established himself as Wales best open-side up until his injury; he was having an awesome season and being the top 7 in Wales isn't an easy task. Faletau is 'world class' - that's all I can say on that matter Wink. Oh and we had a lock that's half injured.

From what I've seen England will top this group, but they will be working hard for it. I'm interested to see what you guys do against France, it could give us in indication of which France turns up in the QF's.

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:32 pm

Taylorman wrote:It’s not weird, it’s just a fact. Folau has many times made the difference for oz, he’s often the reason they win when they should have lost, and the way that match played out could have been another. Granted Wales have players out as well, doesn’t mean it’s not a point to be made. I’m not pointing to excuses, just highlighting non rugby issues that may be impacting on some sides, perhaps unnecessarily. Wales absences are no doubt all injury based. Folaus is not. Nor would Ebens be.

If there's one thing it's absolutely, 100%, definitely not - it's that your opinion is factual.

It's a stupid point to make because it's irrelevant.

"Folau would have made a difference."

Ok, how. Let's take a look. Haylett Petty, the starting 15, was one of the better players. Good running threat second half, good tactical kicking, and try scorer. Can't get too much better than that, really. A solid 7-8/10 performance. But...if I think I'm right here...the point you're making...is...that...Folau would have done all of that - try scorer, good running, good kicking etc. - but also added his extra bit of 'Folau-ness'. So, you know, let's say he makes a 50m break that leads to the decisive score.

Is that what you're saying, yeah?

Ok. No problem.

In which case, Warburton does everything Tipuric does, but wins 2 more turnovers, deals with the ref better and gets Hooper the yellow card and Kerevi a yellow/red card, and a brutal tackle keeps Australia out on the Welsh line that led to their 3rd try.

Cory Hill is a proper Welsh lineout operator, meaning Wales can throw to Tipuric at the tail instead of front, using it as a better attacking weapon. They also challenge more Australian ball, don't lose a key lineout in the second half, and don't have a 6 coming on to play second row for the final 20 minutes, when the Welsh scrum became a penalty machine that led to 3 points and a 70m territorial game in the last 15 minutes.

Rhys Webb does everything Gareth Davies does, but better.

Ellis Jenkins does everything Moriarty did, but better.

Anscombe did everything Patchell did, but better.

Faletau did everything Navidi did, but better, and makes a world class break in the second half that leads to a try.

Do you see how it's pointless?

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Post by miaow on Thu 03 Oct 2019, 7:34 pm

Disagree Fly. Waburton would be there 'if fit', as you say. Retired or not, he's not of retiring age in any stretch of the imagination.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 3:40 am

miaow wrote:
Taylorman wrote:It’s not weird, it’s just a fact. Folau has many times made the difference for oz, he’s often the reason they win when they should have lost, and the way that match played out could have been another. Granted Wales have players out as well, doesn’t mean it’s not a point to be made. I’m not pointing to excuses, just highlighting non rugby issues that may be impacting on some sides, perhaps unnecessarily. Wales absences are no doubt all injury based. Folaus is not. Nor would Ebens be.

If there's one thing it's absolutely, 100%, definitely not - it's that your opinion is factual.

It's a stupid point to make because it's irrelevant.

"Folau would have made a difference."

Ok, how. Let's take a look. Haylett Petty, the starting 15, was one of the better players. Good running threat second half, good tactical kicking, and try scorer. Can't get too much better than that, really. A solid 7-8/10 performance. But...if I think I'm right here...the point you're making...is...that...Folau would have done all of that - try scorer, good running, good kicking etc. - but also added his extra bit of 'Folau-ness'. So, you know, let's say he makes a 50m break that leads to the decisive score.

Is that what you're saying, yeah?

Ok. No problem.

In which case, Warburton does everything Tipuric does, but wins 2 more turnovers, deals with the ref better and gets Hooper the yellow card and Kerevi a yellow/red card, and a brutal tackle keeps Australia out on the Welsh line that led to their 3rd try.

Cory Hill is a proper Welsh lineout operator, meaning Wales can throw to Tipuric at the tail instead of front, using it as a better attacking weapon. They also challenge more Australian ball, don't lose a key lineout in the second half, and don't have a 6 coming on to play second row for the final 20 minutes, when the Welsh scrum became a penalty machine that led to 3 points and a 70m territorial game in the last 15 minutes.

Rhys Webb does everything Gareth Davies does, but better.

Ellis Jenkins does everything Moriarty did, but better.

Anscombe did everything Patchell did, but better.

Faletau did everything Navidi did, but better, and makes a world class break in the second half that leads to a try.

Do you see how it's pointless?

No, I don't. I don't care about the ifs and buts of the Welsh players. An oz with Folau and an Oz without Folau is enough on its own to suggest his presence might have made a difference in a match that ended five points the diff. Folau has scored and created many, many tries in tests from nothing where they would otherwise have lost, and thats enough to assert that opinion.

Can you see how pointless your effort is?

I'm not saying 'hey lets play a game of who's missing from either side' I'm saying had Folau been there in this match, all things being the same Oz might have won. And unlike your names, Folau should be there. Hes not injured. He's chasing the ARU after money is what hes doing.

No need to harp on about it.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 3:43 am

All Blacks team has been named to play Namibia.
Another tonking on the cards. Brodies back. Worth watching? Perhaps.

the 6 foot four Jordie at 10 is interesting. Still a bit too rushed in his ways our Jordie.

1. Joe Moody (42)
2. Codie Taylor (47)
3. Nepo Laulala (22)
4. Brodie Retallick (77)
5. Samuel Whitelock - captain (114)
6. Shannon Frizell (7)
7. Sam Cane (64)
8. Ardie Savea (41)
9. Aaron Smith (88)
10. Jordie Barrett (13)
11. George Bridge (6)
12. Anton Lienert-Brown (39)
13. Jack Goodhue (10)
14. Sevu Reece (4)
15. Ben Smith (82)


16. Dane Coles (65)
17. Ofa Tuungafasi (32)
18. Angus Ta'avao (10)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (27)
20. Matt Todd (22)
21. Brad Weber (3)
22. T J Perenara (61)
23. Rieko Ioane (27)

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 4:37 am

On a shinkansen to Shuizoka for the SA game. Going to be a hot day today.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:41 am

C'mon Italy, Japan stepped up, believe..................and try not to drop the ball!
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:49 am

Nice and slow, nice and sloooooowly.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:53 am

New scrum directive from world rugby.

Crouch.........nice and slowly.....................Bind............nice and slow..................always the same..........................Set.
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:56 am

Try by Maggie I mean Kolbe.

Great step.

several forearms going unpunished already, have the rules changed again?
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 11:46 am

Uncontested scrums fine, but I never understand why the hooker can't hook against the head?
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 11:47 am

I fail to see what Kolisi actually brings to this team, and he’s in a position where SA have lots of depth. I wonder what SA fans think?

The SA locks are playing awesome today.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 11:57 am

Double red?
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 11:59 am

should be two reds.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 11:59 am

It looked like two reds.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:00 pm

What a stupid display from Italy,
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:01 pm

COS should just resign now, they are a shambles and an embarrassment to the 6 Nations.
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Post by Scottrf on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:02 pm

What the hell was he thinking?

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:03 pm

Pizza or Pasta for tea?
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:04 pm

SA doing the seat belt tackle all the time, why is Barnes missing it?
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Post by miaow on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:08 pm

Taylorman wrote:
I'm not saying 'hey lets play a game of who's missing from either side'

Of course not, because it makes you look silly.

Yours isn't a rugby assessment anyway. It's SH good, NH bad. Again.

You've already called Wales lucky. Now you're trying to find ways to hand them the hypothetical victory. F'ing boring.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:11 pm

Kolbe what a player.
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Post by miaow on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 12:11 pm

Tough old game for Italy now. Hammering on the cards. Who knows what might have happened had those two idiots not wanted some man points for 3 seconds.

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