Japan 2019 - Pool B Canada Italy Namibia New Zealand South Africa

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 09 Sep 2019, 12:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

TeamPlayedWonDrawnLostTriesPFPA+/-BPPoints
Italy220014952966210
New Zealand1100223131004
South Africa10011323-10100
Namibia100132247-2500
Canada10011748-4100


New Zealand 23 South Africa 10
Italy 47 Namibia 22
Italy 48 Canada 7 
                     

28 September 2019     South Africa v Namibia                   City of Toyota Stadium, Toyota
2 October 2019           New Zealand v Canada                   Oita Stadium, Ōita
4 October 2019           South Africa v Italy                        Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa, Fukuroi
6 October 2019           New Zealand v Namibia                  Tokyo Stadium, Chōfu
8 October 2019           South Africa v Canada                    Kobe Misaki Stadium, Kobe
12 October 2019         New Zealand v Italy                        City of Toyota Stadium, Toyota
13 October 2019         Namibia v Canada                           Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium, Kamaishi


Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 11:16 am; edited 4 times in total

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Post by bsando on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 5:36 pm

Interested to see how Italy get on, but two bonus point victories against arguably the two weakest sides at the RWC? I’m expecting two heavy losses against both SA and NZ. I hope they throw it around a lot though and I really rate Budd he is a beast of a lock. Glad they have the big boys later in the pool and not straight up.

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Post by robbo277 on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 5:43 pm

A weather-impacted 0-0 against South Africa and a losing bonus point against a chilled out NZ looking to avoid injury to see Italy through?

Probably their best hope.

Can Italy upset South Africa? Well yes, but it would be an upset.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 6:40 pm

All they have to do is beat SA and they are through. Stranger things have happened.

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Post by miaow on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 7:56 pm

Yep, feels like Italy are building for the SA game and could easily poach a win. Well, not easily, but it's possible.

Think they have major issues with scoring points and Canada basically kept them trapped in their own half for most of the game. But if they throw it all at SA, and the Boks underperform, you never know...

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Post by miaow on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 7:59 pm

SecretFly wrote:Say it quietly, but I always get the feeling Italy play better without Sergio.  Too demanding a personality.  Players I sense feel constrained by his directions and need to be involved in everything.


I think that's been true for the last 4-5 years, definitely. His powers have waned yet he still commands the ultimate alpha top dog Don Sergio position in the side. Not only have his personal performances dipped in the last 2 years to the point he's maybe not even good enough to be starting now, but players definitely look like htey're in their shells when along side him. Let Polledri et al. lead the charge.

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Post by miaow on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:01 pm

Also, what happens if SA and Italy draw? What's the table looking like?

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Post by Old Man on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:06 pm

miaow wrote:Yep, feels like Italy are building for the SA game and could easily poach a win. Well, not easily, but it's possible.

Think they have major issues with scoring points and Canada basically kept them trapped in their own half for most of the game. But if they throw it all at SA, and the Boks underperform, you never know...

Boks have revenge planned for Italy, there is no way they will let that slide, it is merely wishful thinking.

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Post by Brendan on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:09 pm

miaow wrote:Also, what happens if SA and Italy draw? What's the table looking like?

It would be funny if NZ just beat Italy so Italy would pick a LBP and be one point ahead. If SA and Italy do draw I would do it just to knock out a competitor.

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Post by miaow on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:29 pm

Old Man wrote:
miaow wrote:Yep, feels like Italy are building for the SA game and could easily poach a win. Well, not easily, but it's possible.

Think they have major issues with scoring points and Canada basically kept them trapped in their own half for most of the game. But if they throw it all at SA, and the Boks underperform, you never know...

Boks have revenge planned for Italy, there is no way they will let that slide, it is merely wishful thinking.

It's not wishful on my part, not invested in the Boks going out, although might benefit Wales it would give Ireland an easy QF if that's the side of the draw Wales go.

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Post by miaow on Thu 26 Sep 2019, 8:30 pm

Brendan wrote:
miaow wrote:Also, what happens if SA and Italy draw? What's the table looking like?

It would be funny if NZ just beat Italy so Italy would pick a LBP and be one point ahead.  If SA and Italy do draw I would do it just to knock out a competitor.

NZ pick the dirt trackers, poison their own players' pre-match meal, get a red card early on, and win by 6?

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 10:57 am

Brits at 8, isn't that a bit disrespectful.

Always thought he was a flanker in his play style, but has he played 8 before in a serious match?

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:07 am

What was the YC for?

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Post by Galted on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:15 am

lostinwales wrote:What was the YC for?

Intentional knock on.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:19 am

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Brits at 8, isn't that a bit disrespectful.

Always thought he was a flanker in his play style, but has he played 8 before in a serious match?

Why on earth is it disrespectful?

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Post by TightHEAD on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:20 am

New rule, SA can now forward pass.
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Post by Galted on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:25 am

TightHEAD wrote:New rule, SA can now forward pass.

That was a shocker, I liked how the commentator immediately called it a great flat pass in case anyone was going to criticize the ref.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 11:35 am

I all ways thought that Schulk Britz  sp, was a hooker. not a number 8.

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Post by miaow on Sat 28 Sep 2019, 4:19 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Brits at 8, isn't that a bit disrespectful.

Always thought he was a flanker in his play style, but has he played 8 before in a serious match?

Should have had man of the match today

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Post by miaow on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 9:22 pm

NZ are likely to face Japan or Scotland in the QFs - winners of the last group game in their pool.

NZ have Canada, Namibia, and Italy remaining. Two training runs and one warm up game for the QF, which they should also walk. They could probably beat both on the same day tbh with one or two changes to the 23 to account for fatigue in the front row.

Their likely semi final opponents are England - who will play Arg, Fra, Oz. If Oz, they have a nice enough run in now with Georgia and Uruguay, and could catch a tired England cold in the QFs. Either way, mammoth QF before meeting NZ in the semi final.

Their likely finalist is either Ireland, the Boks, or Wales. The first two likely to play each other in the QF - Boks favourite there, but should be gruelling. Wales will face a physical test from France but should get through that - only one loss to the French since the semi final in 2011, and it took 100+ minutes and an ignored bite on George North in the dying stages for it to happen.

Whoever wins that SF will likely be severely fatigued, playing a barely tested NZ side in the final.

If the ABs don't win this WC it's likely to go down as the biggest bottle of all time. Their biggest threat is beng undercooked at this stage. The fixtures have been very, very kind to them.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 29 Sep 2019, 10:05 pm

They could be many things but undercooked they won't be.  The game day team are put through tougher tests in training against the extended squad than they usually meet in competition.

They might feint undercooked in some pool games to keep the opposition guessing as they've done in the past.  But if they're in a final, I think they'll need A games and no errors from all challengers.

But..... they may not reach the final.....

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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:03 am

Not sure Fly. All this simulated training - it can never replicate a match. They've been undercooked before.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:34 am

miaow wrote:

If the ABs don't win this WC it's likely to go down as the biggest bottle of all time. Their biggest threat is beng undercooked at this stage. The fixtures have been very, very kind to them.

That I agree with. Haven't seen anyone with the game to beat them yet. SA were good but this AB side will get stronger. They'll have a birds eye view of their likely opponents from here on in as well.

We were 'undercooked' last time and 65 plussed France quarters. They know how to ready for the knockouts after an easy pool run these days- that USED to be the issue, and part of that will be putting themselves under pressure for as much as possible in the remaining pool matches.

Winning 100 nil serves zero purpose, zero learning, zero context going forward. Even no kicking whatsoever vs Canada serves a greater purpose. Running anything and everything. Even only jerseys with 'odd numbers' can run serves more purpose.

They'll hit that quarter like you've never seen before. thumbsup


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Post by miaow on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 12:48 am

SA barely played. They tried to nick a win by staying in third gear. No way would the Boks be that poor if the meet NZ in the final. Errors aside - and some good ABshandling - and the Boks could have squeezed a win out of them as well. All things considered I think Erasmus was happy with that loss.

England and SA can beat NZ, that I'm confident of. Wales? Don't think so, but we'd push it to the wire. Ireland have shown they can squeeze you and if it's cool and wet in a few weeks time, no reason why their attritional game can't come good.

France are no barometer of consistency nor quality. NZ squeaked past an old and shattered Boks side in 2015. All about fine margins.

At this stage, I'd put England NZ as a 45:55 in terms of odds. England can do what no other nation can to the same level - bully. They're what the Boks wish they were, but are probably 3-4 years away from being. If England turn up and get the kicking game right, NZ could have a rough old time with Reece, Moanga et al not established test players yet. We'll see how they click in the QFs. Whisper it quietly, but I'm very glad Wales beat Australia today so avoid England. Their gameplan is ideal for the conditions in Japan at the moment.

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Post by Taylorman on Mon 30 Sep 2019, 1:13 am

All wishful thinking, cans, could haves, squeeks.

This time looks easier than the last two. In fact the standards are disappointing. Sides win then lose or struggle against those they should beat.

Wales got lucky they werent ripped after being 15 clear, not a good sign. Ireland couldnt come back against a tier two.

All looks too easy this time. Pity.

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Post by westisbest on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 11:32 am

Biggest score of the tournament so far in this game?

Hopefully the Canadians can get a try or two.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 11:41 am

Total mismatch, does the RWC no favours
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 11:43 am

Go Canada Go
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Post by No9 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 11:58 am

Even if All Blacks win with a BP (Which they will), they wont go top of the group (... today anyway).. 

So if games get cancelled (as reported on other thread) due to the approaching Cyclone, it could see Italy go through as winners and the Boks missing out in 3rd.

As unlikely as that is, can you imagine the outcry there would be... If there's a risk of that happening, I bet World Rugby would change their ruling.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:26 pm

They have given up.

Very disappointing from Canada.
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Post by No9 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:38 pm

Massive mismatch.... Canada have nothing they can give.. 

This is no more than a training run out for the All Blacks.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:39 pm

Just turned on.

63 - 0 to ABs in 59 minutes?

Not getting things all their own way I see. Good job Canada

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:41 pm

They could do with making something like what the sevens do, and the lesser teams go into a bowl or shield playoff ????????

This fixture is doing nothing for both teams, and the tournament.

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Post by No9 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:46 pm

LordDowlais wrote:They could do with making something like what the sevens do, and the lesser teams go into a bowl or shield playoff ????????

This fixture is doing nothing for both teams, and the tournament.
Thats a good point.... 

Now there are 5 teams per pool, there is no reason why the 3rd & 4th placed teams cannot play a bowl quarters, semi and final in parallel to the main cup and a the 5th places play for a shield.

It would give some hope to the lower tiers and could help development.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 12:53 pm

Great idea would give the likes of Fuji, Samao, Italy and Scotland something to play for.
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Post by No9 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Great idea would give the likes of Fuji, Samao, Italy and Scotland something to play for.
warning

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:03 pm

..........would have been handy in 2015 too! picard
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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:07 pm

Awful handling all round!
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Post by Pal Joey on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:13 pm

It's easier putting a wet cake of soap onto the soap holder than handling the ball in that humidity. Probably the first time B Barrett has dropped the ball with nothing in front of him.

They left a minimum of about 28 points on the field out there. Could have been 90-100 points in better conditions so the final scoreline actually is quite flattering for Canada.
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:They could do with making something like what the sevens do, and the lesser teams go into a bowl or shield playoff ????????

This fixture is doing nothing for both teams, and the tournament.

Please, please...no bowls or shield. Beaten teams simply want to go home. They don't need platitudes and little pretend trophies.

They have clubs/provinces/regions to get back to.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 1:33 pm

LordDowlais wrote:They could do with making something like what the sevens do, and the lesser teams go into a bowl or shield playoff ????????

This fixture is doing nothing for both teams, and the tournament.

This idea got a lot of traction in the last tournament. Had we had it, we would have been treated to additional quarter-finals of:

England vs Samoa
Japan vs Fiji
Georgia vs Romania
Italy vs Tonga

Japan vs Fiji would have most definitely been a game worth watching, while England vs Samoa would have been a good fixture too especially with the home interest. Following how the draw panned you could have had semi-finals of England vs Italy and Japan vs Georgia and then a final of England vs Japan maybe - and that as a plate final would have been much better than the Bronze final we were treated to. These games would have sold out the smaller grounds, easily.

This year? We could potentially be looking at:

Scotland/Japan vs Canada
Italy vs Samoa
Argentina vs Fiji/Uruguay
Georgia vs USA

There's some worthwhile fixtures there and it gives some additional context to Fiji vs Georgia, USA vs Tonga and Canada vs Namibia which we still have to come in the group stages. Especially if you could maneuver the tournament into midweek, so have the plate on Thursdays and Fridays at the smaller grounds and the Cup on Saturdays and Sundays at the bigger ones.

Potential semi-finals (based on these quarter-finals) are Scotland/Japan vs Georgia and Italy vs Argentina. From there you can't really call the winner of the plate, so it would definitely add interest.

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 2:00 pm

robbo277 wrote:Potential semi-finals (based on these quarter-finals) are Scotland/Japan vs Georgia and Italy vs Argentina. From there you can't really call the winner of the plate, so it would definitely add interest.

And it would generate more ££££££'s.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 2:27 pm

Pool Overkill!  

Pool Don't Give'a Sucker An Even Break

High scoring pool!

47, 48, 57, 63

SA - and Italy! - will try to break the Pool record again when they both meet next.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 2:57 pm

New Zealand may well be disappointed with that performance. Far too many mistakes in quite simple plays.

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Post by miaow on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:14 pm

Taylorman wrote:
miaow wrote:

If the ABs don't win this WC it's likely to go down as the biggest bottle of all time. Their biggest threat is beng undercooked at this stage. The fixtures have been very, very kind to them.

That I agree with. Haven't seen anyone with the game to beat them yet. SA were good but this AB side will get stronger. They'll have a birds eye view of their likely opponents from here on in as well.

We were 'undercooked' last time and 65 plussed France quarters. They know how to ready for the knockouts after an easy pool run these days- that USED to be the issue, and part of that will be putting themselves under pressure for as much as possible in the remaining pool matches.

Winning 100 nil serves zero purpose, zero learning, zero context going forward. Even no kicking whatsoever vs Canada serves a greater purpose. Running anything and everything. Even only jerseys with 'odd numbers' can run serves more purpose.

They'll hit that quarter like you've never seen before. thumbsup


I was referrng to 2007. n 2015, NZ smashed a useless French team, scraped past a geratric Boks by 2, and then waltzed the fnal. And that was with on of the best teams I think I've probably ever seen play, that NZ team between 2011-2015.

England's looking like your only proper test here, wth SA playing well wthin themselves in the opener.

It's possble NZ are undercooked when facing probably the most likely team to beat them.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:15 pm

LondonTiger wrote:New Zealand may well be disappointed with that performance. Far too many mistakes in quite simple plays.

Please look back at other world cups.  Look back at I think the last one?  New Zealand often look 'vulnerable' in pool stages even with sizeable points victories.  The critics always point out the seeming weaknesses that might be exploited by better sides - slick moves not working properly, uncharacteristic handling errors, seeming frustration in the brows, players coming off suggesting they had a tough session (despite the scoreboard laughing at their acting).

I never buy this Pool stuff from the ABs.  Hanson and his crew will continue to hone the games he means to play further down the line behind closed doors.  All the pools get is training ground efforts to practice things, plus moves that they might hope the more serious opponents might fixate on unduly.  There is a lot of bluff plus over-relaxation in Pool group AB games.  That looseness (knock ons, fumbles) in moves won't be there in more serious games.

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Post by miaow on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:15 pm

Taylorman wrote:All wishful thinking, cans, could haves, squeeks.

This time looks easier than the last two. In fact the standards are disappointing. Sides win then lose or struggle against those they should beat.

Wales got lucky they werent ripped after being 15 clear, not a good sign. Ireland couldnt come back against a tier two.

All looks too easy this time. Pity.

Lol.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:New Zealand may well be disappointed with that performance. Far too many mistakes in quite simple plays.

Please look back at other world cups.  Look back at I think the last one?  New Zealand often look 'vulnerable' in pool stages even with sizeable points victories.  The critics always point out the seeming weaknesses that might be exploited by better sides - slick moves not working properly, uncharacteristic handling errors, seeming frustration in the brows, players coming off suggesting they had a tough session (despite the scoreboard laughing at their acting).

I never buy this Pool stuff from the ABs.  Hanson and his crew will continue to hone the games he means to play further down the line behind closed doors.  All the pools get is training ground efforts to practice things, plus moves that they might hope the more serious opponents might fixate on unduly.  There is a lot of bluff plus over-relaxation in Pool group AB games.  That looseness (knock ons, fumbles) in moves won't be there in more serious games.

Not saying they look vulnerable, or undercooked or anything else. Just they set themselves high standards and really at times the looked like a "boring" 6Ns team Very Happy

That I needed Beauden Barrett not to get scared of the line and throw the ball away to get maximum points in a prediction competition is neither here nor there.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 3:37 pm

Oh I gotcha now Wink OK

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Post by Taylorman on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 7:29 pm

Yeah but of a waste of time. Some goodhandling at times, good to see the ball in hand most of the match. Barrett dropping the ball was hilarious, looked like he was carrying an eel.

Ioane made some good supporting runs and Weber shows he’s still got his pace, and a very good third option at 9. Mo’unga faultless in goalkicking, including off the sideline.

Read got a chance to run out a bit and the Barrett brothers enjoyed their first start together.

Always going to be a romp with Italy putting nearly 50 on them as we..

Easy day at the park, back to watching some close matches.

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Post by alanmackie6 on Wed 02 Oct 2019, 7:42 pm

This match was as relevant to the competion,as englands easy wins were to them.it means nothing to the knock out stages,their big match is over.just a matter of trying out combo`s laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing laughing for qfs

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